LAXintl
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DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:31 am

As follow up to previously closed threads, DOT has rejected Spirits request for 14 weekly Columbia frequencies to be used between FLL-Barranquilla and Bogota.

As part of the pleadings the DOT sided with American Airlines whom prior to Spirits application held 14 unused US-Colombia frequencies. Subsequent to Spirits application to strip AA of those dormant frequencies, AA presented plans and began selling new Colombia services effective December 13th making use of the 14 frequencies.

The DOT did however place AA on notice that if it fails to make full use of its allocated frequencies in the future they would revert back to the department.

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474879_web.pdf
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MAH4546
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
The DOT did however place AA on notice that if it fails to make full use of its allocated frequencies in the future they would revert back to the department.

Good to hear. This will force AA to fly them year-round. AA has a history of hoarding frequencies to limit capacity and then make up stupid excused like "there is no demand" when the reality is that the demand is more than there. Though I would not be surprised to see AA look at doing something else with the seven frequencies that are going to more mIA-BOG/MDE service.
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LAXintl
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:45 am

Yes the DOT decision was fair while putting AA on notice. It shows the departments strong desire in seeing US air service rights used to their full potential and willingness to reallocate them while clearly also going against AA's opinion that its Colombia frequencies were grand fathered and not subject to reallocation.

In the same light, the DOT decision bodes well for AA in its own route case trying to strip United of 7 unused US-Argentina frequencies to commence ORD-EZE service this coming fall.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MAH4546
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):

In the same light, the DOT decision bodes well for AA in its own route case trying to strip United of 7 unused US-Argentina frequencies to commence ORD-EZE service this coming fall.

They don't need to strip them from UA, though. There are now 21 unused frequencies thanks to an expanded USA-Argentina agreement. Though if they don't get them from UA, that means they can't do ORD-EZE and expand MIA-EZE (to 18x weekly) and add MIA-COR (3x weekly).
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worldtraveler
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:16 am

somehow I'd be very surprised if AA added all that much capacity at one time. No other US airline right now seems to be jumping on the new frequencies to Argentina - and we are talking about AA which is in a "status quo" mode w/ regards to their network size.
 
a300aa
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:12 am

Its not going to be easy to fill a 737 to MDE 3 times a week, specially during low season.

Also ex AA BAQ employees filed a new law suit against American to be rehired and to get paid for the period AA ceased operations there until now. Its not going to be easy for AA to go back.

Also rumors that BOG will open positions for Flight Attendants to cover these new frequencies.
 
MAH4546
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 4):
somehow I'd be very surprised if AA added all that much capacity at one time.

I wouldn't. The additional MIA-EZE flights, if they happen, will operate during daylight on a seasonal basis (December- April and June-August), using planes that would otherwise be sitting on the ground doing nothing. Cordoba is a market they've been eyeying for a while and can finally enter. Cordoba probably won't happen until 2009, though, with a 757. The thing that may speed plans for Cordoba up, or slow them down, is how Copa does in the market.

Quoting A300AA (Reply 5):

Also ex AA BAQ employees filed a new law suit against American to be rehired and to get paid for the period AA ceased operations there until now. Its not going to be easy for AA to go back.

It is going to be very easy for AA to go back to BAQ. They can easily afford to settle any law suits, and won't let it get in the way. The backpay on those employees is pocket change for AA.

[Edited 2007-07-03 04:28:30]
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Southamerica
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm

Quoting A300AA (Reply 5):
Its not going to be easy to fill a 737 to MDE 3 times a week, specially during low season.

MDE-MIA sees a year-round load-factor of 71%. On high-season it reaches the higher 80s.

Based on how yields and loads behave for most of the US-LatAm routes, I believe it is safe to expect a positive result with these three additional frequencies.

Wether or not these frequencies have more potential on other routes to Colombia is another story.


SA.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:22 am

Well, competition wise, it´s not the best decision. But the DOT probably just wanted to establish new, long-lasting service to Colombia (Spirit could have flown the routes for 5 months and then quit if they didn´t do well), so better be safe than sorry. What i do think was good was the little warning made to AA. They were really long-due to start new service.

I actually see the new BOG and MDE frequencies staying. The other markets are just too small for the time being, except for a combined PEI-CTG flight, which wouldn´t support anything more than 2x weekly (AV will be flying it daily soon, lots of competition).
 
MAH4546
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 8):
. The other markets are just too small for the time being, except for a combined PEI-CTG flight, which wouldn´t support anything more than 2x weekly

AA believe MIA-PEI could support 3x weekly non-stop, and they are eyeing it for summer 2008.
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RCS763AV
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
AA believe MIA-PEI could support 3x weekly non-stop, and they are eyeing it for summer 2008.

I believe that study was conducted before AV asked for daily frequiencies to Aerocivil, it´s different now (read the rest of the post pls).

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
Columbia

It´s ColOmbia.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:15 am

IMHO, I think if those Colombian frequencies aren't used...they should go to a Colombian carrier.
 
MAH4546
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:31 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 10):
I believe that study was conducted before AV asked for daily frequiencies to Aerocivil, it´s different now (read the rest of the post pls).

No, it wasn't. AA is currently studying an MIA-PEI service. The idea was brought back up again just in the past few weeks.
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worldtraveler
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:00 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
I wouldn't. The additional MIA-EZE flights, if they happen, will operate during daylight on a seasonal basis (December- April and June-August), using planes that would otherwise be sitting on the ground doing nothing. Cordoba is a market they've been eyeying for a while and can finally enter. Cordoba probably won't happen until 2009, though, with a 757.

not to be argumentative but if they add Cordoba until 2007 and they add MIA-EZE flights on a seasonal basis (perhaps as early as this winter), they won't be adding all the capacity at the same time. Even if they don't add more frequency to MIA-EZE this winter (which they may not since they are also adding ORD), they are not likely to add capacity to MIA next summer... and even if they did, they wouldn't start Cordoba as a new route during S. American winter.
 
MAH4546
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:10 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
not to be argumentative but if they add Cordoba until 2007 and they add MIA-EZE flights on a seasonal basis (perhaps as early as this winter), they won't be adding all the capacity at the same time. Even if they don't add more frequency to MIA-EZE this winter (which they may not since they are also adding ORD), they are not likely to add capacity to MIA next summer... and even if they did, they wouldn't start Cordoba as a new route during S. American winter.

Like I said, Cordoba probably won't happen until 2009, and there is nothing stopping them from adding it in the summer, which is a busy travel period for Miami-Argentina, though adding it during absolute peak - the winter - is smarter.

The added MIA-EZE flights could very well be added during the summer. Demand between Miami and Argentina peaks during December/January and again in July/August (i.e. before it went year-round, MIA-MVD was opearting Nov-Mar, Jul-Aug). July-August is a busy time for Miami-Argentina travel, but not for general USA-Argentina travel.

I agree that they probably won't add more MIA-EZE capacity this winter, because they want to concentrate on getting ORD-EZE off the ground. Though the extra MIA-EZE capacity is something that can be added very quickly, since it will use planes that otherwise sit on the ground.

[Edited 2007-07-05 02:16:31]
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AJMIA
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
I agree that they probably won't add more MIA-EZE capacity this winter, because they want to concentrate on getting ORD-EZE off the ground. Though the extra MIA-EZE capacity is something that can be added very quickly, since it will use planes that otherwise sit on the ground.

Then why don't they use the plane that is sitting on the ground for something... anything...

MIA-SFO could sure use the extra lift. Even with 1 x 767 and 2 x 757 those flights are usually jammed and we end up sending people via LAX, DFW and STL.

AJMIA
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MAH4546
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:37 am

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 15):

Then why don't they use the plane that is sitting on the ground for something... anything...

They pretty much do. You have a 772 each to DFW, ORD, and LAX; a 763 each to SFO, BOG, POS, and DFW, and two 763s to LAX. When they add a daylight MIA-EZE flight, one of those flights will have to be downgauged.
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RCS763AV
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:41 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
The idea was brought back up again just in the past few weeks.

Avianca´s application was less than a week ago, so AA will have to take longer to study the route.
 
MAH4546
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:12 pm

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 17):
Avianca�s application was less than a week ago, so AA will have to take longer to study the route.

I don't think AA cares. Avianca is simply planning on increasing MIA-CTG-PEI service to daily. They aren't going to be flying MIA-PEI non-stop, which is something AA is considering doing with the 3 frequencies that will, for now, go to MIA-MDE.
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RICARIZA
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:04 am

Well, I guess spirit is betting now on the Civil Aeronautics to approve BOG-FLL to Aires. I understand that Aires plans to serve that route codesharing or some sort of agreement with Spirit.
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
LAXintl
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RE: DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA

Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:22 pm

Looks like Spirit is not giving up... launching a rare appeal to DOTs decision.

Quote:
Spirit Wants DOT To Reverse Rejection On Colombia Bid
07/12/2007

Spirit asked the U.S. Transportation Dept. to reverse its decision, made late last month, rejecting the carrier's bid for 14 currently idle U.S.-Colombia frequencies belonging to American.

Spirit argues that American "has for at least four years restricted capacity in this market by warehousing over a third of its Colombia frequencies." The rejection of its application "undermines the Department's duty and statutory requirement to promote competition and low-fare service, and instead rewards and encourages misuse of these limited rights by incumbent carriers."

In its decision, DOT said it is not department policy to revoke dormant frequencies from an incumbent carrier if the airline has firm plans to use them, but it is also not policy "to permit valuable operating rights to remain unused."

Full article. (subscription required)
http://www.aviationweek.com/publicat...+Reverse+Rejection+On+Colombia+Bid

The DOT document
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/475407_web.pdf
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