KarlB737
Topic Author
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:03 am

10 Pitches Of Support For YNG SCASD

Well this caught me out of the blue today. I didn't realize there was this much penmanship at work for YNG. I knew they were seeking something more. I know they want more from Allegiant. The confidence factor that needs to come from Allegiant appears to be absent at the present time. I hope however that either through SCASD or heavy negotiations with Allegiant or Spirit that something develops after these writings:

Bazetta Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474937_web.pdf

Boardman Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474936_web.pdf

Elizabeth Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474888_web.pdf

Poland Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474886_web.pdf

Hartford Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474885_web.pdf

Eric Augustein - Village of Beloit Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474882_web.pdf

Vernon Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474881_web.pdf

John W. Smith - Mayor Village Sebring Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474880_web.pdf

Steve Bowser Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474878_web.pdf

Milton Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474876_web.pdf
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:58 am

SCASD is to develop the business economy of a city. Enabling people to fly to see Mickey or the beach isn't in the business/economic interest. If all they're doing is pitching a SCASD for more flights to see Mickey Mouse, the beaches, etc. it is an abuse of the system. If they were asking for flights to DC, Chicago, NYC, or some other business center I'd be all fine with it. These outlying community leaders are asking for SCASD in the business interest of the area, mentioning unemployment and the such in their letters. More links to the beaches of Florida, Vegas, etc. are NOT going to help the local economy/unemployment... and if that is the real spirit of YNG's SCASD application it should be torn up.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
I knew they were seeking something more. I know they want more from Allegiant. The confidence factor that needs to come from Allegiant appears to be absent at the present time. I hope however that either through SCASD or heavy negotiations with Allegiant or Spirit that something develops after these writings:

Isn't the YNG application for a revenue guarantee for regional jet service? I thought they wanted to get connecting service through a hub.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 1):
More links to the beaches of Florida, Vegas, etc. are NOT going to help the local economy/unemployment... and if that is the real spirit of YNG's SCASD application it should be torn up.

I decided to pull up their SCASD application again.

Looks like I am right, they want regional jet flights to a hub, not Allegiant or Spirit.

Quote:
The Youngstown-Warren
Regional Airport is requesting a $800,000 SCASDP grant to initiate a 50-90 seat regional jet
service at YNG, by developing a revenue guarantee program to support the initial phase (first 12
months) of air service. This revenue guarantee program will be designed to attract non-stop air
service to the hub of a major U.S. airline in the Midwest or Southern US., by minimizing the
initial business risk that a carrier will face in entering a new market, rather than simply
subsidizing air service that is unlikely to be self-sufficient. Thus, the revenue guarantee will be a
short-term program tailored to launch the new regional jet service by mitigating the airline’s
initial risk.

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/467601_web.pdf
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:24 am

Actual Grant Link:
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/467601_web.pdf

This is great news for YNG - Youngstown-Warren Regional as they look to get back into the the business of providing business flights in the region! This grant calls for $800,000 from the DOT, as well as about $1 million in local funds to provide a $1.8 million dollar grant to help assist the first 3 years of service for a business carrier to fly 3-5 daily flights on a regional jet to Chicago, Cincinnati, or Charlotte. In the first 2 years, the airline would lose about $800,000, which YNG would pickup; but then make a $500,000 for the profit come year 3 w/o the assistance of YNG.

YNG did a survey to local business and they said 34% wanted flights to ORD, 21% to CLT, 13% to CVG, and 13% to CMH. The survey had a small % response to the actual local employer base and it came out to about 98,000 passengers a year to fly a business route, after they did all the math.

With a 93% passenger load for the first half of 2007 for Allegiant Air; things look promising!
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:25 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 3):

Looks like I am right, they want regional jet flights to a hub, not Allegiant or Spirit.

In that case... more power to them. Although with as close as they are to CAK, CLE, and PIT I don't really think the gov't will go along with this one.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 4):
YNG did a survey to local business and they said 34% wanted flights to ORD, 21% to CLT, 13% to CVG, and 13% to CMH.

Who in their right mind would fly YNG-CMH. With the check in times and whatnot you can drive it quicker.  Confused I can see ORD, CLT, and even CVG... but CMH is sooooo close!
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:52 am

I think the best thing going for YNG is that they have been awarded grants in the past; (03 and 05) and those grants were successful in bringing in carriers. The other thing that they have going for them that other airports do not is that they actually took the time to send out a survey to thousands of local businesses to get their imput on whether or not they'd fly YNG and where they'd like to fly to if they were interested.

The survey came up with this stat: Therefore, area businesses responding estimate that approximately 63% of their company’s airline tickets would be purchased to fly from YNG. For an area with a 600,000 MSA Population; that is pretty darn good and esp. something a legacy carrier will be looking for! Fingers crossed YNG gets this award, because it has proven that people in the Valley will fly if their are flights.

I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:56 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 3):
Looks like I am right, they want regional jet flights to a hub

Particularly they want UA. I live in the area and it has been talked about, however I can't see UA coming here.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6118
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:17 pm

No chance of UA service to ORD, or AA for that matter. Due to the scarcity of slots at ORD, they are not going to "waste" them on service to YNG.

It would be interesting to see how that "survey" was worded, it should come as no surprise that ORD came out first. If they listed NYC as a choice, it would probably come out on top. There is always a difference between what people want and what people actually end up using.

A 50 seat RJ is a tough sell without revenue guarentees. Sure if they want to throw enough cash at it for a year then fine. Too bad they couldn't get XJ to restart Saab service to DTW which could potentially be the best bet for service. The proximity of CAK, CLE, & PIT doesn't help at all.
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:04 pm

ATLAaron, that UA Rumor can be blamed on myself. I had heard from various people about Colgan's interest in YNG, but that was just in the preliminary talks. Those talks died off without any money guarentee's. I still think UA and YNG can get something if YNG gets the money here.

And PSU.DTW.SCE: That NWA Route got so bad that on some flights there would be 2-5 people on board right before the service ended. DTW was not a popular route for us in YNG.

ORD always did pretty darn well, but I think if included, DC would be the top on everyone's business list! I, of course, want this grant badly to get this airport back on the map. Allegiant is doing well, and I'm sure business flights at a decent fare will do well too!

Want more on YNG - Read my successful blog!
http://yngair.wordpress.com

[Edited 2007-07-03 07:05:14]
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:56 pm

YNGguins, I don't know if you noticed the chart you linked from the grant. Cincinanati? Someone didn't proof read and added an extra "a".

Its been years since I did the old ORD-CAK-YNG flights. I've been glad to see the area picking up again.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
KarlB737
Topic Author
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 1):
if that is the real spirit of YNG's SCASD application it should be torn up.



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 2):
Isn't the YNG application for a revenue guarantee for regional jet service?



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 3):
they want regional jet flights to a hub, not Allegiant or Spirit.

I should have seperated the fact that on the one hand the airport has applied for the SCASD grant for the regional jet service and in a separate effort have hopes for more Allegiant service that has nothing to do with the SCASD application. Thoughts for something from Spirit Airlines as well is a seperate interest coming from not the airport but many interested individuals in favor of increased YNG air service. Again these thoughts have nothing to do with the SCASD application. I did not in my original post make these specifics clear. My error.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6118
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:39 pm

I used to be on those Mesaba flights at times into YNG, when they continued on to SCE.
Part of the problem was that the service was poorly timed. YNG was always thrown in as a tag-on, or a stop-over.

One of the flights went DTW-YNG-SCE-DTW, with another going DTW-SCE-YNG-DTW. After they made all SCE flights nonstop to DTW, then I believe CAK was added in as a stop for a while before they terminated the service, just prior to 9/11. I believe NW/XJ pulled out on 9/8/01. They never picked up more than a few passengers on the stopover flights whenever I came in via SCE.

I would imagine that UA/Colgan IAD Saab service has a better chance than UA ORD RJ service. Lower operating costs, lower breakeven load factor, and not worrying about the reluctance to pull slots from other ORD flights.Restarting with turboprop service is a lot less risky than an RJ, and likely wouldn't eat through the revenue guarentee as quickly.

I don't think Spirit is interested in YNG either, its just not their niche. They generally don't fly routes less than daily, and they are in full growth mode out of FLL to the Carribean & Central America. Again, its the allocation of resources, and NK hasn't really gone into to small markets to capture leisure passengers. They focus on the larger destinations to capture leisure passengers.
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:04 am

FATFlyer: I know your the insider here on Airliners.net re: Allegiant Air news. Have you heard anything at all regarding YNG? I mean we do have 93% loads for the first half of 2007, and we still have never been considered for additional SFB Flights, or even flights to our most popular destination: LAS.

Spirit Air has talked with YNG in the past, and I even went out to do a survey on my blog for one of the supposed aviation experts at YNG; he was supposed to deliver the results to Spirit, but the guy backed out. My numbers came up with LAS and FLL and RSW as the top 3 destinations if Spirit were to come to town.
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:03 am

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 14):
I mean we do have 93% loads for the first half of 2007, and we still have never been considered for additional SFB Flights, or even flights to our most popular destination: LAS.

93% is quite high no doubt, but for Allegiant's game plan adding another frequency or two to 93% could be the straw that broke the camel's back. They've been known to have BELF's up in the upper 80's. You may have already reached the saturation point for flights to that destination for an airline like G4, Allegiant is smart enough to realize that it's going to be tough to pull anyone with rewards/miles away from FL (CAK/PIT) US (PIT) and CO (CLE) despite the proximity.

As for LAS.. that's a lonnnnng way for a Mad Dog, and ties the plane up for the majority of the day. With the fares to LAS out of PIT, CAK, and CLE it would be hard to woo customers to G4 in such a way that would make up for such a long haul. Look at Toledo for example.
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:00 am

You bring up some good points Tornado82. I understand what you are saying, and I really pushed for YNG to get LAS service when it was absent from CAK, but now its back at CAK, and so competition may hurt their chances of selling high on most flights.

BTW: They got their new master plan approved and that should be up on their website within the coming weeks, I guess it focuses on GA, but also has an emphasis on the introduction of business flights again. They also got the FAA to approve a PFC of $4.50 on tickets. That will be used for bathrooms in the gated area, as well as improvements to the terminal
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:21 am

KarlB737 --- Your post made the local paper, well at least it will tomorrow.
I responded to the Youngstown Vindicator and asked them if they found the information out via my blog.

Grant for airport gains support
http://blogs.vindy.com/news/2007/07/...3/grant-for-airport-gains-support/
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:22 am

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 14):
FATFlyer: I know your the insider here on Airliners.net re: Allegiant Air news. Have you heard anything at all regarding YNG?

I haven't heard anything lately. Now that the company is public (SEC regulations are now in play) the information flow is changed so I don't hear things like I used to.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1428
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 15):
They've been known to have BELF's up in the upper 80's.

Just wondering where this information comes from....thanks!
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:29 am

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 19):

Just wondering where this information comes from....thanks!

Their one "televised" (webcasted) press conference mentioned it. Also when they entered Allentown there was a big write up in the local paper about the company and how their pricing is so low that they need full flights (85+ according to the paper) for profits... because their flight operations are basically break-even its the vacation packaging that puts them into the black.
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:58 pm

The Youngstown Vindicator Article on the Communities Supporting YNG
Thank You KarlB737
http://www.vindy.com/content/local_regional/292831257560919.php

Does anyone know when we will get a date of the announcement of the grant award winners. I really think YNG has a great shot to get the grant because its a practical grant, and our congressmen is in the very high up House Appropriations Committee and he has gotten money for various projects of the Mahoning Valley.
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6118
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:34 am

The expected date is ~August 15th. They do not have set date, it basically comes down to when they finish the review and approval process.

YNG's application is in play but its no shoe-in.

Consider, 75 proposals were submitted. Of those 75, only about 40 have any sense or reality, the others are for rediculous stuff and non-air service improvement related items which usually get denied year after year. Those 40 total about $18-19 million worth of grants. Since the SCASD program has come under attack in recent years with funding significantly reduced, only $9.9 million is available to dole out. Since YNG is asking for $800,000, that over 8% of the total grant money, a rather large piece of a limited pie.

Needless to say, they will be more selective than ever. YNG's application has one major shortcoming - they do not have a target airline listed and no letters of endorsement from any airline interested in service. YNG application states they want the money first then will negotiate with the airlines second. In most cases, an application that already has an airline in a verbal agreement for service will basically be rubber stamped by the DOT.

Congressmen have minimal influence over the SCASD grant process as its the DOT that makes the decisions for these.

As I said YNG is in play, but it depends how the other applicants it is up against compare.

[Edited 2007-07-04 17:48:45]
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:39 am

Do you guys honestly think YNG can support much service? While it would certainly be a convenience for me, I just don't see it working.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 22):


Needless to say, they will be more selective than ever. YNG's application has one major shortcoming - they do not have a target airline listed and no letters of endorsement from any airline interested in service. YNG application states they want the money first then will negotiation with the airlines second. In most cases, and application that already has an airline in a verbal agreement for service will basically be rubber stamped by the DOT.

And that's a big stumbling block, considering a relatively nearby airport which already had sustaining airline service to a few hubs requested specific NYC service last year (or maybe it was 05 now I forget) with interest from CO-Ex and Colgan as US-Ex in the app and still got denied.
 
KarlB737
Topic Author
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 22):
YNG's application has one major shortcoming - they do not have a target airline listed and no letters of endorsement from any airline interested in service. YNG application states they want the money first then will negotiation with the airlines second.

Therefore based on your statement above if the grant is not approved because no airline was in the wings (pun intended) the blame could be targeted directly at Steve Bowser from the other 9 support groups for failing to accomplish this procedure in the right sequential order. That being get the airline first and the bucks second.
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 22):
Needless to say, they will be more selective than ever. YNG's application has one major shortcoming - they do not have a target airline listed and no letters of endorsement from any airline interested in service. YNG application states they want the money first then will negotiate with the airlines second. In most cases, an application that already has an airline in a verbal agreement for service will basically be rubber stamped by the DOT.

I think that statement is totally wrong. Back in 2002, YNG had a huge SCASD application with the support of Delta Airline Officials and many politicians all throughout Ohio.... and guess what: THE GRANT WAS TURNED AWAY.

Last year TOL got a grant for NYC service and they didn't have any particular airline support and guess what: Although the DOT awarded them the grant, they still don't have any service to NYC.

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 23):
Do you guys honestly think YNG can support much service? While it would certainly be a convenience for me, I just don't see it working.

I definitely think that YNG can support that much service. This isn't the economy of the 1980s and 1990s anymore in Youngstown. Steel Jobs are done, we have GM and Delphi as the major employers, but the number of small businesses in Youngstown are on the uprising. In Downtown Youngstown, they are set to begin work on a 5 story, $5 million dollar Technology Center, which would be home to a great Youngstown company on the rise called Turning Technologies. This company makes handheld equipment for Powerpoint presentations, and recently set up a new shop overseas. They plan on expanding across the USA.

The number of banks in Youngstown is huge, its a regional bank center in the region. In the Downtown alone there are 5 regional bank headquarters, and as a financial person myself, my company flies all across the midwest, and ORD is one of the many places we fly to.

SMALL Businesses will be the key to making this work, and considering small businesses are popping up all over the Mahoning Valley, that is definitely something good for YNG.
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 26):

The number of banks in Youngstown is huge, its a regional bank center in the region. In the Downtown alone there are 5 regional bank headquarters, and as a financial person myself, my company flies all across the midwest, and ORD is one of the many places we fly to.

They're barking up the wrong trees with ORD though because of the slots and so forth. Likewise as was said, not RJ's to IAD but talking to Colgan may help. It's not too far for a SF34. You need to get something that is sustainable on the RJ if you get an RJ, because subsidies don't last forever. 50 seat RJ's are extremely high cost birds, and it seems as if people in YNG (as many other cities) have shiny jet syndrome.

Things that would make FAR more long-term sense than another high-cost 50 seat RJ running with < 60% LF's that would need highly subsidized:
- Beeches/DH8's to CLE (doubtful, CO's theory is probably just drive to CLE where we make more money)
- Saabs to DTW (Sure it may have failed in the past, but add a revenue guarantee and it looks alot better. A plethora of int'l connections and service to just about every city in the Midwest/Northeast, growth potential to MSP if loads ever warrant.)
- Beeches to CVG (Big Sky as Delta Connection. CVG would give better connections than CLE, some int'l, and better Midwest region connections than IAD. If it is successful enough then Delta looks at sending Comair up there someday)
- Saabs to IAD (Far more reasonable than ORD in the eyes of UA as far as a slot goes, and Colgan is a subsidy whore if there ever was one)
- Beeches to MKE (A bit of a stretch, but possibly an interesting scenario as Skyway has gone for subsidies in the past. The thing is what is the status with Skyway's fleet? And if FL ever succeeds in their Midwest purchase they'd immediately cannibalize any YNG operation to further support their CAK)

These IMO are routes that have potential to actually make money someday, as opposed to sucking up a subsidy then faltering as has happened to CRJ routes in the past.
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:37 am

You may be surprised by how many people didn't fly flights to DTW, CLE, CAK, ORD, PIT back in the day due the turboprops.. I for one just had to fly YNG-ORD once to know that I would never fly that route again, those planes are horrible.

With the money, I think RJ's could work well on these flights.
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 28):
You may be surprised by how many people didn't fly flights to DTW, CLE, CAK, ORD, PIT back in the day due the turboprops..

The Federal Government isn't in the business of playing psychiatrist to those with a psychological fear of turboprops. Just because people have shiny jet syndrome doesn't mean the Feds need to support their addiction. Newsflash to those people, turboprops are on the comeback, look at CO's order for Q400's and so forth. Catering to people afraid of props doesn't work with $70/bbl oil in those extremely inefficient RJ's.

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 28):

With the money, I think RJ's could work well on these flights.

That's the point of what I'm getting at. What happens in 2009 or when the money dries up? YNG is back to being Allegiant only. A turboprop could be self sustaining, an RJ likely won't be.
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:54 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 29):
That's the point of what I'm getting at. What happens in 2009 or when the money dries up? YNG is back to being Allegiant only. A turboprop could be self sustaining, an RJ likely won't be.

Read our grant application. It goes a year by year by year look at the finances of the airline in its first 3 years. Come year 3, the airline will be self sustaining and be making a profit on the route.
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 30):
Come year 3, the airline will be self sustaining and be making a profit on the route.

On a 50 seat RJ? I'm willing to bet otherwise just because of the economics of a 50 seat RJ on a short hop.
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 31):
On a 50 seat RJ? I'm willing to bet otherwise just because of the economics of a 50 seat RJ on a short hop.

If CAK can do it and make it work, then I am sure YNG can do it too.
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6118
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:44 pm

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 30):
Read our grant application. It goes a year by year by year look at the finances of the airline in its first 3 years. Come year 3, the airline will be self sustaining and be making a profit on the route.

Well of course if they are submitting a proposal the numbers better work out! Granted I wouldn't put it past some of our moron government agencies in DC to go an approve a proposal where they would lose money afterwards, I wouldn't trust those numbers at face value. I read through the proposal and I would guarentee that those load factors they are predicting are way over-exaggerated. A 68% load factor on 3 daily CRJs at the end of year 1? 75% by year 3? That is very lofty for an airport that virtually lacks air service.

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 32):
If CAK can do it and make it work, then I am sure YNG can do it too.

That makes zero sense at all. CAK & YNG are completely different animals. CAK already thriving, located much more generally to a large population center. Sure, the cost side for a CRJ on CVG-CAK & CVG-YNG, or ORD would be nearly indentical. It the enplanements and in the end the difference in revenue that is potentially way different.


YNG should have examined what LBE did a few years ago. USAirways Express pulled out and left the airport without air service. The airport worked together with NW, the local business community, and political leaders to successfuly receive a SCASD grant to start air service with 2 daily Saabs on DTW-LBE. They didn't want anything too crazy, they knew that RJ's were out of the question. They have several large international companies in the region that needed connecting service to all parts of the world. LBE is also far enough away from PIT that it is somewhat of a hassle.
Point being, sometimes starting small and working up to something bigger and better should the more conservative plan work out is a better option.

I know you are very proud of your community and your airport. I've been in the city and to the airport myself. Its just like most other rust belt communities in the region - making some progress, but still trying to figure out its new identity once the crash of their primary industry. It also doesn't help when there is national press about how the city proper is attempting to downside by creating open space.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:17 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 33):
LBE is also far enough away from PIT that it is somewhat of a hassle.

LBE is a longer drive time-wise to PIT than even YNG is. Just something to keep in mind.
 
ouboy79
Posts: 4114
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:48 pm

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:40 pm

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 26):
Last year TOL got a grant for NYC service and they didn't have any particular airline support and guess what: Although the DOT awarded them the grant, they still don't have any service to NYC.

One thing about the TOL grant application from last year, they only asked for $400K in grant funds, the additional $1.6M in funds and related were raised and paid for locally. They do have a couple airlines interested, one was ready to announce about a month ago but had to hold off. I say a couple more months and that'll get wrapped up and you'll see an announcement.

As far as YNG...I liken this airport to GYY. It will serve a niche, and that is going to be with speciality carriers like G4 and maybe SkyBus or some one similar.
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:21 am

The Airport Director Steve Bowser and some other supposed Aviation Expert named Chuck Johnson were on 570 WKBN this morning discussing the grant application.

I emailed the host of the show and he has informed me that the podcast of the entire 75 minute interview will be up sometime tomorrow.

He writes: "They are seeking a million [REALLY $800K] dollar grant for 3 trips to Chicago daily. They want to entice an airline to do just that."

I will post the mp3 file tomorrow, should be interesting to hear!
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:48 pm

Well since the things I read say they are indeed looking for Chicago service, do you think AA would make sense? Actually American Eagle but whatever. Think it makes any difference that AA does not serve CAK? Which I really think AA needs CAK service but that should be another thread I guess.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6118
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:18 pm

AA has several airports of a similar size in the region that do not have service, including but not limited to:
CAK, CRW, ABE, AVP, ROA.

YNG getting American Eagle from ORD is even more of a pipe dream. They are way more slot restricted at ORD than United. And they are severely limited by lack of available aircraft (ERJ's) Basically, for Eagle to add anything, that would have to cut other flights.

I give YNG virtually no chance of getting ORD service, even if they were to receive the grant.
The would have much better luck going for DTW, IAD, or CVG.

[Edited 2007-07-06 06:21:50]
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 38):
I give YNG virtually no chance of getting ORD service, even if they were to receive the grant.
The would have much better luck going for DTW, IAD, or CVG.

YNG will not go away from their grant application and go after DTW or IAD. If they can't get ORD, they will go after Charlotte service, and quite frankly, that would be fine for me since I could connect to RSW that way. For whatever reason, IAD was not in that application, but there are a lot of travelers from Youngstown to DC each week, and its a route CAK does not have, which means they could've gotten a few more passengers from the Akron-Canton area.
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:31 am

Youngstown Vindicator Editorial for Sunday
http://www.vindy.com/content/opinion/editorial/292929552123307.php

HOW WE SEE IT

At the very least, the U.S. Department of Transportation should receive 91 letters from the Mahoning Valley in support of an $800,000 grant application submitted by the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport. The money would be used to persuade a commercial airline to offer regular service at the Vienna Township airport.

Why 91? Because that's the number of cities, townships and villages in Mahoning, Trumbull and Columbiana counties; each of them has a stake in the economic future of the region. As of last week, only 18 local governments had submitted letters backing the airport's application for a Small Community Air Service Development Grant administered by the federal department of transportation. We hope the July Fourth holiday had something to do with the lack of response from the rest.

The economic viability of the region requires, among other things, a full-service airport. As we noted in an editorial in May, Delphi Packard Electric is proof that air transportation is an integral part of a major corporation's operation.

In announcing the relocation of its top executives in global operations from Warren to Streetsboro, Delphi said proximity to Cleveland Hopkins International Airport was one or the reasons for the decision. Delphi, once a shining star of the Valley's manufacturing might, is undergoing a major retrenchment that could result in job losses in this area. Having top executives leave, not for greener pastures but for convenience, makes Delphi's shrinkage a bitter pill to swallow.

Securing the $800,000 federal grant would enable the Western Reserve Port Authority, which governs the airport, to make a pitch to commercial airlines that offer regional service.

Steve Bowser, director of aviation at the airport, said the goal is to have 50-90 seat aircraft flying from Youngstown-Warren to Chicago or Atlanta, catering to business travelers.

While competition for the Small Community Air Service Development Grant money is expected to be stiff, the regional port authority can make a persuasive case for its application — if federal transportation department officials consider past performance in judging viability.

In 2004, the airport received $250,000 for a marketing campaign that ultimately resulted in Allegiant Air launching scheduled flights to Sanford, Fla., twice a week. The service began in May 2006, and since that time the passenger count at Youngstown-Warren has topped 12,000. The federal government's standard for grant eligibility is 10,000.

In his pitch for local support for the $800,000 grant application, Bower says in a letter, "The USDOT is targeting small communities for this program. Therefore, community support is most essential as this type and caliber of community support will be highly considered in the initial and subsequent review phases."

U.S. Sen. George V. Voinovich, R-Ohio, U.S. Rep. Tim Ryan of Niles, D-17th, state Sen. John Boccieri and Reps. Sandra Harwood, Tom Letson and Mark Okey have sent letters, as have the Trumbull County commissioners and the cities of Warren and Youngstown.

We would hope that by this time next week, the list of supporters will have grown to such an extent that the U.S. Department of Transportation can't ignore the value the people of the Mahoning Valley place on the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport.
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:17 am

Interesting Idea:

VIENNA — State Sen. John Boccieri has written to Lt. Gov. Lee Fisher, asking that the state encourage Continental Airlines to create an aircraft repair facility at the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport.

Boccieri of New Middletown, D-33rd, said that the encouragement could be part of the state’s current talks with the airline about helping it with $16 million to expand its operations at the Cleveland Hopkins International Airport.

“The Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport can play a significant role in the company’s expansion,” Boccieri said.
He said the existence of an aircraft repair school at the airport run by the Pittsburgh Institute of Aeronatics is perhaps the biggest draw for locating the repair facility here.
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 41):
Interesting Idea:

Ah, Federal Gov't blackmail at it's finest...

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 41):


VIENNA — State Sen. John Boccieri has written to Lt. Gov. Lee Fisher, asking that the state encourage Continental Airlines to create an aircraft repair facility at the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport.

Continental would have to be pretty desperate for the expansion at CLE to agree to this. They're not going to want to be shuttling those 737's on 80 mile hops for mx, that adds a good chunk of cost to each trip to the mx bays. Continental would possibly to tell the entire state of Ohio where to shove it if that were the case, and not expand CLE either, then everyone loses.
 
KarlB737
Topic Author
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:51 am

You can add 3 more Pitches of Support For YNG SCASD. It looks like the attempt to rally the parties involved seems to be taking shape. I hope for all the people involved this develops into something worthwhile.

Smith Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/475942_web.pdf

Trumbull County Commissioners Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/475946_web.pdf

Board Of Mahoning County Commissioners Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/475961_web.pdf

A couple of replies to:

Reply To George V. Voinovich
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/475284_web.pdf

Reply To Sandra Stabile Harwood
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/475283_web.pdf

[Edited 2007-07-11 00:17:26]
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:18 pm

More from COA and YNG?
http://www.vindy.com/content/local_regional/294322772077862.php

Quote:
Boccieri said Continental flies its planes to New Jersey or Texas for repairs, but with fuel prices being high, it makes "great business sense" to have a maintenance facility close to Cleveland, Continental's second largest U.S. hub.

The airport's director, Steve Bowser, is also expected to write a letter to Fisher, detailing the facilities the airport could provide, Boccieri said, including 10 acres of land that are available for immediate expansion on the western side of the airport near Ridge Road, just opposite Aeropark Drive.

Bowser said the 10 acres are already paved with concrete and were designated in the airport's most recent master plan as a cargo area. That area will be designated as general-purpose aviation in the next master plan.


Also from the Warren Tribune Chronicle
http://tribune-chronicle.com/News/articles.asp?articleID=20140

Quote:
Cleveland is competing with Newark and Houston for the project, which Continental says could generate 700 jobs averaging almost $25 an hour, $35 million in construction, $4 million in renovations and $4 million in equipment.


[Edited 2007-07-11 07:21:22]
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:27 am

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 44):
Quote:
Boccieri said Continental flies its planes to New Jersey or Texas for repairs, but with fuel prices being high, it makes "great business sense" to have a maintenance facility close to Cleveland, Continental's second largest U.S. hub.

Isn't there room at CLE for this maintenance facility right on the grounds over toward that I-X Center that I've heard is meeting the wrecking ball soon? If so that would be, by far, CO's favorite solution. Over the course of the mx facility's lifetime it would save CO millions to keep it on site. Because face it, even if CO came to YNG and opened a station there, it sure as hell would never be 737's... so they'd still be ferrying all the birds for mx in.

And since when is CLE CO's 2nd largest US hub? Did Mexico re-annex IAH, or did Newark fall into the bay?

[Edited 2007-07-11 17:29:01]
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:37 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 1):
SCASD is to develop the business economy of a city. Enabling people to fly to see Mickey or the beach isn't in the business/economic interest. If all they're doing is pitching a SCASD for more flights to see Mickey Mouse, the beaches, etc. it is an abuse of the system.

Agree 100%, lt Orlando apply then.
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:51 pm

Add another local township to the long list of local communities supporting YNG. And judging by reading the DOT Dockets; I got to say YNG has the most local support of any grant application out there.

http://www.vindy.com/content/local_regional/294790638689569.php
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
User avatar
YNGguins
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:08 am

RE: 10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd

Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:01 am

Vindy Editorial [#2 this week for YNG]

State should help Valley lure Continental Airlines facility

http://www.vindy.com/content/opinion/editorial/295720553632405.php

"State Sen. John Boccieri of New Middletown, D-33rd, has sent a letter to Lt. Gov. Lee Fisher, who also serves as the state's development director, suggesting that the administration of Gov. Ted Strickland include the regional airport in the economic incentive package Ohio is offering Continental Airlines to expand its hub at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport."
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!