n471wn
Posts: 1321
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:53 am

SWA had an excellent June with RPM's up 11% and Load Factor up nearly 2 points. I would hope that SWA's management would be smart enough to figure out that the demand to fly has not diminished but rather people have been impacted by higher fares in general. I would hope that SWA would reconsider going down 15 planes from plan at the end of 2008 and instead take those aircraft into MSP and rescue those poor souls who are being held hostage by NWA---in fact that would be a great strategy to say that they are going to reduce their growth from 8% to 6% (which they said they would do) and then pull a surprise attack on NWA at MSP....the frequent flyer program at NWA cannot overcome the increasingly "we do not care" attitude on the part of many NWA employees who have a legitimate right to be disillusioned with lousy management (who take care of themselves no matter what)
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2528
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:56 am

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
I would hope that SWA would reconsider going down 15 planes from plan at the end of 2008 and instead take those aircraft into MSP and rescue those poor souls who are being held hostage by NWA

Their employees?


On a more serious note, I too think WN should enter MSP; and on a large scale at that.
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4888
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
the frequent flyer program at NWA cannot overcome the increasingly "we do not care" attitude on the part of many NWA employees who have a legitimate right to be disillusioned with lousy management (who take care of themselves no matter what

Wow, and I clicked on this thread thinking it was going to be about Southwest.

Oh, those poor souls that fly out of MSP. If they want cheaper fares, they can drive further. That's what Southwest makes them do at Boston, New York, and other places.

Anyhoo, congrats to Southwest on their good numbers. Hopefully, they're getting their market figured out.
 
rampart
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:42 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
Boston, New York, and other places.

and Midland, and Austin, and Boise, and Albany, and Phoenix, and Denver, and Seattle, and San Francisco, and Baltimore, and Philadelphia...

Selective memory, or blinders?
 
SNCNtry32
Posts: 552
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:22 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:17 am

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
MSP



Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 1):
On a more serious note, I too think WN should enter MSP; and on a large scale at that.

Pigs will fly before WN enters MSP. If they ever enter MSP, I will belive it when I see it.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
Oh, those poor souls that fly out of MSP. If they want cheaper fares, they can drive further. That's what Southwest makes them do at Boston, New York, and other places.

IIRC, Allegiant is coming into RST, WN can do the same if they feel the need to break into the Minnesota market.

Its good to hear that WN's numbers are up!!

[Edited 2007-07-04 03:20:01]
Long Live Memphis!
 
luvfa
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 10:05 pm

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:57 am

for NYC I guess its a choice. Drive 45 min. or sit on a taxiway for 2 hours!
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 1698
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:42 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:26 pm

Quoting N471WN (Thread starter):
SWA had an excellent June with RPM's up 11% and Load Factor up nearly 2 points. I would hope that SWA's management would be smart enough to figure out that the demand to fly has not diminished but rather people have been impacted by higher fares in general. I would hope that SWA would reconsider going down 15 planes from plan at the end of 2008 and instead take those aircraft into MSP and rescue those poor souls who are being held hostage by NWA---in fact that would be a great strategy to say that they are going to reduce their growth from 8% to 6% (which they said they would do) and then pull a surprise attack on NWA at MSP....the frequent flyer program at NWA cannot overcome the increasingly "we do not care" attitude on the part of many NWA employees who have a legitimate right to be disillusioned with lousy management (who take care of themselves no matter what)

Do we have a link...or is this speculation...I haven't yet seen a PR...

Even if all the above is true, all airlines are seeing higher LFs. WN's is typically lower than most others, so the stats are useless unless we have something to compare them to...
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
n471wn
Posts: 1321
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:29 am

RDUDDJI:

Go to swa.com and look at the press release. The comparison is with June of last year obviously---not sure why you would say nothing to compare it to....June's RPM's are up 11% over last June's numbers and the load factor is up neary 2 points. That is significant when airlines (including SWA) have said business is slowing.....which leads me to my hypothesis that SWA is ready to strike at another city.....
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4888
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting Rampart (Reply 3):
Selective memory, or blinders?

Oh please. Your point is entirely different than mind. Face it: Southwest does not serve one of the big three New York airports. Sorry, but you can't really argue with me on that. Nor do they serve Boston.

Yes, they serve Midland, and I am sure that all twelve people that live there appreciate it. I know I appreciated it when I flew there... on American Eagle, but I digress.


The point of my post was to draw attention to the fact that even the original poster found a way to turn a press release from Southwest (an airline I love) into a major bash of Northwest (an airline I avoid).

a.net cheerleading at its finest.

Quoting Luvfa (Reply 5):
for NYC I guess its a choice. Drive 45 min. or sit on a taxiway for 2 hours!

Amen! And I even like the way you put it!

Why don't you Southwest cheerleaders get off of your MSP bandwagon and try and get them to come to Anchorage? Our only lo-co carrier is Frontier, and they are only a seasonal guy. Well, Sun Country also flies here seasonall... once a week or so...
We'd sure love someone to come in and bust up AS's stranglehold on the market. Heck, they could even serve Hawaii from here... HA can't send enough 767s to meet demand in the wintertime, and the service on NW is no better than what you get on WN.

Cheers, all.
 
rampart
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 8):
Oh please. Your point is entirely different than mind. Face it: Southwest does not serve one of the big three New York airports. Sorry, but you can't really argue with me on that. Nor do they serve Boston.

Yes, they serve Midland, and I am sure that all twelve people that live there appreciate it. I know I appreciated it when I flew there... on American Eagle, but I digress.


The point of my post was to draw attention to the fact that even the original poster found a way to turn a press release from Southwest (an airline I love) into a major bash of Northwest (an airline I avoid).

a.net cheerleading at its finest.

My point was to point out your narrow view of Southwest, as an "airline that serves primarily outlying and fringe cities" (not quoting you, but paraphrasing a thesis that you and many others take). The two cities you mention, Boston and NYC are actually unique (along with perhaps Miami), and not the norm for WN, despite the going consensus on their "business model". Your comment is nowhere representative of the reality in most cities. I was making a point of demonstrating that across the scale, small cities to very large, WN makes direct contact with the primary or central airport. And now you've gone out of your way to not only insult Minneapolitans, but Midlanders as well. So, it took all of TWO replies to read something negative about WN (your post, at least that's how it came across, hence my reply) in what the OP introduced as positive news. Do you see your role as the necessary "antichearleader" to keep us level? Or is "getting their market figured out" your version of a positive statement?

-Rampart
 
pizzaandplanes
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 10:17 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 8):
Oh please. Your point is entirely different than mind. Face it: Southwest does not serve one of the big three New York airports. Sorry, but you can't really argue with me on that. Nor do they serve Boston.

 checkmark 
I really think it's southwest's loss that they are missing out on the heart of the largest metro area in the country.

This topic has gone off subject rapidly.
A real man lands where he wants to
 
db373
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:01 pm

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:57 am

First of all, congrats to WN for the good numbers! Seems like a lot of the airlines had a good June, and it's just the beginning of the busy summer season!

Quoting Rampart (Reply 9):
So, it took all of TWO replies to read something negative about WN (your post, at least that's how it came across, hence my reply) in what the OP introduced as positive news. Do you see your role as the necessary "antichearleader" to keep us level? Or is "getting their market figured out" your version of a positive statement?

-Rampart

The OP introduced positive news, but then decided to tarnish that news by taking a couple swipes at NW. It's difficult to determine whether the OP was trying to congratulate WN (Which is something the OP never said) or whether the OP was trying to take a swipe at NW (Which was the majority of his post). So it's kind of ironic that we're calling his post positive when the majority of it was negative.

And for the record, AA737-823 did congratulate WN for their positive numbers, something you have yet to do. Go figure.....
Keep Delta My Delta
 
skyharborshome
Posts: 202
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:19 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:07 am

Summer travel has been brutal lately. 13 of the 14 WN flights I have been on in the past month were booked to cap. Bad for us passengers but good for WN. I was talking to one of the agents at DAL and he said "the cakewalk is over. Ever since they opened up the Wright Amendment a little, we have been slammed." Think he is right too. Every flight I have had in and out has been completely full and that is with 4-on-4.

Will be interesting to see the Q2 revenue numbers.
Fly CHD!
 
n471wn
Posts: 1321
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:24 am

Db373:

My OP was meant to be positive about SWA....I erred in taking a swipe at NWA....but it frustrates me that they get away with airline pricing murder up there at MSP and I want the day to come when that ends.....but your point is well taken.
 
737tanker
Posts: 246
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:47 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting Pizzaandplanes (Reply 10):
I really think it's southwest's loss that they are missing out on the heart of the largest metro area in the country.

GK agrees with you. He has said that he definitely wants to have SWA start service to LGA but at this time there are no slots or gates available.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:47 am

Glad to hear the good news for Southwest.
They are a great airline, that consistently delivers excellent service and treat there employees right...or at least better than most.
Bring back the Concorde
 
rampart
Posts: 1798
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:14 am

Quoting Db373 (Reply 11):
And for the record, AA737-823 did congratulate WN for their positive numbers, something you have yet to do. Go figure.....

Amidst 3 relatively negative statements.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
If they want cheaper fares, they can drive further.



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
That's what Southwest makes them do at Boston, New York, and other places.



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
Hopefully, they're getting their market figured out.

I took that as damning with faint praise. And his statements were misleading. I was more interested in setting the record straight.

I did take the OP's statement about WN's numbers as positive, which he confirms is his intent. I didn't pay much attention to the MSP argument, negative as it might have been, until AA737 entered his rather unnecessary sarcasm.

If you'd like me to also congratulate WN, sure, I'd be happy to, but if that was my only reason to post, it would have been rather frivolous "cheerleading", reaffirming what had been said already, and not adding anything to the discussion. Go figure.

-Rampart
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4888
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:43 am

Quoting Db373 (Reply 11):
AA737-823 did congratulate WN for their positive numbers, something you have yet to do. Go figure.....

Check it! Someone who can read, and then think critically... welcome to my respected user list. My list may be 7.35 years old, but there are very few on it... for a reason.

Quoting N471WN (Reply 13):
ut it frustrates me that they get away with airline pricing murder

Pricing murder (rape? pillage? thievery?) is always aggravating, which is why I so openly welcome Southwest to come to Anchorage, my new home airport. Because I can't get to Luv Field (my old home airport, and most frequent destination) on Southwest anymore.
 
AlexPorter
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:10 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:45 am

1. Congrats to Southwest, it's always good when any airline succeeds (despite what some on this board may believe).
2. As for MSP, most of the major destinations have at least two airlines on them:
- NYC: NW, CO, SY
- LA: NW, SY
- CHI: NW, AA, UA, FL
- PHL: NW, US
- DFW: NW, AA, SY
- MIA: NW, AA, SY (seasonal)
- WAS: NW, SY
- IAH: NW, CO, SY (seasonal)
- DTW: NW only. This is the largest metro area in the U.S. with only one airline serving it from MSP.
- BOS: NW only.
- ATL: NW, DL, FL
- SFO: NW, SY
- Riverside, CA: Nobody flies to ONT non-stop anymore, but PSP is technically in this metro and it's served by NW and SY, both seasonally.
- PHX: NW, US, SY
- SEA: NW, SY
- SAN: NW, SY
- STL: NW, AA
- BWI: NW only.
- PIT: NW only.

So, of the 20 largest metro areas in the U.S., only four are NW monopolies from MSP, although IAH is a SkyTeam monopoly for the warm half of the year. NW only really gets into more price gouging on more mid-market destinations that are only served by NW (places like Billings, or Louisville, or Madison, and so forth), but most of the time these destinations are driving distance from MSP, or they can be served with one-stop itineraries on other airlines (Madison is drivable, Louisville can be served via ORD or CVG, Billings can be served by DEN, etc.) So MSP is in a better situation than is often reported. The one thing WN could provide at MSP is a combination of better service and frequency, which WN usually has. Right now, NW has all the frequency, while SY has much better service but often only one or two flights per day to each city they serve. But for now, WN can grow elsewhere, and I think it will be a while before they move into MSP.
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
boeing743
Posts: 338
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:16 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:31 pm

Many people in Minnesota is very strong proud and support of NWA. You also notice that many cities in Minnesota are very popular with NW than another airlines. I may be wrong. It would be very difficult to bring SWA into MSP also into another cities ie: NY area is already congested with many airlines so SWA would not want to bring the business there when it would be hard to have 30 mins turnout when NYC area is always delayed and that would not bring a good business to SWA./
 
sw733
Posts: 5298
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:36 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 8):
Face it: Southwest does not serve one of the big three New York airports. Sorry, but you can't really argue with me on that. Nor do they serve Boston.

True, but they serve New York through their codeshare with ATA, right? That means WN passengers can still get to New York with a WN ticket, just not on WN metal.
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 18):
1. Congrats to Southwest, it's always good when any airline succeeds (despite what some on this board may believe).
2. As for MSP, most of the major destinations have at least two airlines on them:

The same could be said for DEN prior to their entry. A Southwest station at MSP need not have an earthshaking impact, however. They certainly havn't done as much in Detroit as one might have expected......
 
sw733
Posts: 5298
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 21):
The same could be said for DEN prior to their entry. A Southwest station at MSP need not have an earthshaking impact, however. They certainly havn't done as much in Detroit as one might have expected......

Keep in mind how they went into IAD to just kinda throw a thorn into the side of UA's operations...I could see them doing so in MSP. Just because they may not make $100 million profit a year in MSP doesn't mean they won't enter it...that area is a big hole in their map, and I really think it's the only realistic place to plug it (DSM gets too close to OMA and MCI, and everywhere else is just too small - Grand Forks, Green Bay, etc.)
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4888
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 20):
True, but they serve New York through their codeshare with ATA, right?

True. How is that code share doing, though? I'm not convinced it was the greatest hookup... I think they were really only after Hawaii flight access, to tell the truth. But that's just armchair-CEO.

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 21):
A Southwest station at MSP need not have an earthshaking impact, however. They certainly havn't done as much in Detroit as one might have expected......

If they go after NW at DTW and MSP both, I expect a fight. NW has enough on its plate at the moment, but that always seems to be the best time for petty airline fighting... and Southwest rarely loses a good fight.
 
sw733
Posts: 5298
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:36 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 23):
True. How is that code share doing, though? I'm not convinced it was the greatest hookup... I think they were really only after Hawaii flight access, to tell the truth. But that's just armchair-CEO.

I think they were after Hawaii too, but, so what? I did the MCI-MDW-LGA roundtrip and the connection from Southwest to ATA in Chicago was really quite fluid - my bags arrived just as planned (well, these days, prayed and hoped) in New York.

Another great thing with how much I fly is that if you have two free Southwest tickets, you can get to Hawaii for free (or at least that's how it was not too long ago, I am assuming it's still the same). Still haven't done it, but I hope to soon.
 
COERJ145
Posts: 1140
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:22 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 23):

If they go after NW at DTW and MSP both, I expect a fight. NW has enough on its plate at the moment, but that always seems to be the best time for petty airline fighting... and Southwest rarely loses a good fight.

I'm betting on NW starting DAL-AUS, DAL-HOU, and DAL-SAT with A320s if WN comes to MSP.
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:41 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 22):

Keep in mind how they went into IAD to just kinda throw a thorn into the side of UA's operations...I could see them doing so in MSP.

Southwest does not expand on the basis of ego or for the purpose of hurting competitors. It must have a genuine belief that it can make money in the market before it expands. IAD simply accesses a different area than BWI does.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 23):
If they go after NW at DTW and MSP both, I expect a fight. NW has enough on its plate at the moment, but that always seems to be the best time for petty airline fighting... and Southwest rarely loses a good fight.

Southwest wins when it fights, but is very reluctant to start fights. They will discount when opening a market but not outrageously. Northwest cannot afford a fight with Southwest, so I can't see them starting one either. It would'nt be a bloodbath if WN entered MSP, although fares would go down and Northwest would have to improve its service.
 
Queso
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 8):
Yes, they serve Midland, and I am sure that all twelve people that live there appreciate it.

I take offense to that facetious remark. Every WN flight I have been on out of MAF has had a good LF.

The Midland/Odessa metro area has over 250,000 people, not a market to sneeze at.
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4888
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:46 pm

Quoting Queso (Reply 27):
250,000

...which is still just one person per fourteen oil rigs...
 Smile

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 26):
Northwest cannot afford a fight with Southwest, so I can't see them starting one either. It would'nt be a bloodbath

It would be a bloodbath if NW thought they were up for it. I truly think NW is struggling, and airlines seem to pick times like these to create diversions... and what better diversion than, "Hey, WN just entered our fortress, we need more paycuts, less benefits, etc.... but don't worry, folks, we're going to survive." Meanwhile, bloodbath.

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 25):
I'm betting on NW starting DAL-AUS, DAL-HOU, and DAL-SAT with A320s if WN comes to MSP.

As much as I love Luv Field, nothing would make me happier! They should reopen the extended-wing ticket counters, reopen the concourse of color (modernized, of course), and kick AA out. AA never wanted to be there, anyhow. But that's for a different thread.


Back to relevance, Glad WN is doing well, hope they keep their heads about them, and gosh I'm not sure how a MSP venture would turn out.
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: SWA's June Traffic Numbers Are Out And Wow!

Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:35 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 23):

True. How is that code share doing, though? I'm not convinced it was the greatest hookup... I think they were really only after Hawaii flight access, to tell the truth. But that's just armchair-CEO.

Herb offered the codeshare in order to get the deal for ATA's Midway assets and to prevent a competitor from doing the same. Period. If Airtran got that deal, and they came pretty close, Southwest would have a lot less marketshare in Midway by now. Yields there would be much lower also. The codeshare has worked out pretty well but rest assured it would never have been considered had MDW marketshare not been in play. Specific destinations such as Hawaii had little to do with it.