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Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2301
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

EU Blacklist Update Published

Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:25 pm

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/air-ban/pdf/list_en.pdf

AIR KORYO North Korea
AIR WEST CO. LTD Sudan
ARIANA AFGHAN AIRLINES Afghanistan
BLUE WING AIRLINES Surinam
SILVERBACK CARGO FREIGHTERS Rwanda
TAAG ANGOLA AIRLINES Angola
VOLARE AVIATION ENTREPRISE Ukraine
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of DR Congo (except Hewa Bora, see below)
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of Equatorial Guinea
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of Indonesia
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of Kyrgyzstan
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of Liberia
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of Sierra Leone
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of Swaziland
AIR BANGLADESH Bangladesh B747-269B S2-ADT only
AIR SERVICE COMORES Comoros All fleet except LET 410 D6-CAM
HEWA BORA AIRWAYS DR Congo All fleet except: B767-266 ER 9Q-CJD
PAKISTAN INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES Pakistan
All fleet except B-777; 3 B-747-300; 2 B-747-200. 6 A-310
(AP-BHV, AP-BHW, AP-BGJ, AP-BGK, AP-BGL, AP-BGY, AP-BGZ; AP-BFU, AP-BGG, AP-BFX, AP-BAK, AP-BAT, AP-BEU, AP-BGP, AP-BGR, AP-BGN, AP-BEC, AP-BEG)

So interestingly, no Bulgarian airlines as reported earlier. One TAAG flight is on its way to LIS now, and the document doesn't say when it will come into force, but I think it'll be Friday. Let's see what the Angolan reaction will be.

[Edited 2007-07-04 13:36:27]

[Edited 2007-07-04 13:42:34]
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
vv701
Posts: 5805
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:44 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
TAAG ANGOLA AIRLINES Angola

Angola has already retaliated by banning BA flights to Luanda. See thread titled 'British Airways Banned! Tit-for-Tat feom Angola'. Will they now ban all other EU airlines?
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:57 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 1):
Will they now ban all other EU airlines?

Hard to imagine they banning TP since it's their main link to Europe and the most flown route because of ties between both countries.
744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
 
tiago701
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:35 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:51 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
One TAAG flight is on its way to LIS now, and the document doesn't say when it will come into force, but I think it'll be Friday.

Correct. It will come into force this Friday after being published in the Official Journal of the European Union with immediate effect.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:25 pm

We would have seen very few of the airlines in Europe anyway. Most are just regional airlines operating e.g. in West Africa, Indonesia or Surinam. I'll bet that the only time we might ever see the Comorian L-410 would if it flies to the Czech Republic for heavy maintenance.
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Vega9000
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:48 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:32 pm

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 2):
Hard to imagine they banning TP

They have already issued an informal warning stating that's precisely what they'll do. My guess is that they will announce it tomorow
Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:54 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
We would have seen very few of the airlines in Europe anyway. Most are just regional airlines operating e.g. in West Africa, Indonesia or Surinam. I

The ban extends to the issuance of interline tickets in the EU by any airline involving transport over the lines of these companies.

[Edited 2007-07-04 16:54:49]
 
HT
Posts: 5857
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
I'll bet that the only time we might ever see the Comorian L-410 would if it flies to the Czech Republic for heavy maintenance.

Please update me: Does this ban "only" cover flights carrying pax and/or freight, but allows flights into or via the EU for transferring the a/c to a maintenance base ?
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
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Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2301
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting HT (Reply 7):
Please update me: Does this ban "only" cover flights carrying pax and/or freight, but allows flights into or via the EU for transferring the a/c to a maintenance base ?

I'd say such flights may have to be requested on a case-by-case basis. But I am not sure.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
imiakhtar
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:35 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Thu Jul 05, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
PAKISTAN INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES Pakistan
All fleet except B-777; 3 B-747-300; 2 B-747-200. 6 A-310

 bigthumbsup  Can't wait to see these heavies making a return to MAN!
Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky?
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2301
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:54 am

Two more TAAG flights scheduled to/from LIS tomorrow. None on Friday. Waiting for news about the Angolan government...
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2301
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:26 am

Well, the last TAAG flight just landed. I hope they will get their act together and come back soon!
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
VS11
Posts: 900
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2001 6:34 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:44 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
So interestingly, no Bulgarian airlines as reported earlier

That is because the Bulgarian authorities revoked the licenses of the operators before the EU authorities did, so technically by the time the EU published the list, those Bulgarian airlines did not exist as such.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 8):
uoting HT (Reply 7):
Please update me: Does this ban "only" cover flights carrying pax and/or freight, but allows flights into or via the EU for transferring the a/c to a maintenance base ?

I'd say such flights may have to be requested on a case-by-case basis. But I am not sure.

Non-revenue flights usually follow different procedures. You can e.g. fly a plane, which has limited airworthiness, from one place to another using a "permit to fly", though in this case ALL countries overflown, plus the country of registration have to give their permission. This is e.g. used if a plane suffers a puncture in the fuselage due to e.g. "ramp rash" and has to be flown unpressurised, with a temporary repair, back to a place where it can be repaired properly. Obviously carryage of passengers or anybody except the absolutely necessary crew is not allowed under such circumstances.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Fly2CHC
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:17 pm

Indonesia is a shocker to me. This explains why Garuda don't fly to Europe anymore I guess, despite very strong demand.
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:10 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 11):
Well, the last TAAG flight just landed. I hope they will get their act together and come back soon!

From the official journal:

TAAG — Angola Airlines
(11) There is verified evidence of serious safety deficiencies on the part of TAAG Angola Airlines certified in Angola. These deficiencies have been identified by France during ramp inspections performed under the SAFA programme. The repetition of these inspection findings shows systemic safety deficiencies.
(12) TAAG Angola Airlines demonstrated a lack of ability to address safety deficiencies in response to requests by France, in spite of guarantees given by the carrier and its competent authorities as demonstrated by persistent safety deficiencies. Also, there is insufficient ability of the competent authorities of Angola to enforce the relevant safety standards, despite the guarantees given by these authorities.
(13) The competent authorities of Angola demonstrated a lack of ability to implement and enforce the relevant safety standards, when concerns about the safety of the operation of TAAG certified in that State were raised.
(14) Whilst acknowledging the effort made by the carrier towards the identification of the actions necessary to redress its safety situation, as well as the disposition towards cooperation shown by both the carrier and the competent authorities of civil aviation of Angola, the Commission considers that the satisfactory implementation of an adequate corrective action plan by the carrier is not completed.
(15) Therefore, on the basis of the common criteria, it is assessed that TAAG Angola Airlines does not meet the relevant safety standards. The air carrier should be subject to a ban to all its operations and should be included in Annex A.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 1529
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:15 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of Equatorial Guinea

I was just wondering, does E.Q actually have any airlines at all who fly jet aircraft?

And also, what were TAAG doing wrong with their maintenence? Are their suppliers not recognised by the EU or something?
 
gffgold
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:23 pm

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:15 am

I noticed that Saudi Arabia is about to join in with the EU in banning Indonesian arlines. Will this extend to Hajj flights, I wonder?
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15456
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 1):
Angola has already retaliated by banning BA flights to Luanda.

The ban on BA was rescinded recently.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
GARUDAROD
Posts: 1139
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2000 4:39 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting Gffgold (Reply 17):
I noticed that Saudi Arabia is about to join in with the EU in banning Indonesian arlines. Will this extend to Hajj flights, I wonder?

Gffgold,
Do you have a source for that info? That would seem to be pretty serious if true, especially if it extends
to the HAJJ. That is the only reason GA has a positive cash flow at times.
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2301
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:04 pm

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 19):
Do you have a source for that info? That would seem to be pretty serious if true, especially if it extends
to the HAJJ. That is the only reason GA has a positive cash flow at times.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6902092.stm

Fair use excerpt:

Quote:
Saudi Arabia has said it is considering banning Indonesian airlines from flying to the country for safety reasons. The news comes less than a fortnight after the European Union announced a similar ban on all Indonesian airlines. The ban came after two major air disasters in the Asian archipelago since the beginning of the year.

The transport ministry said it had received a letter from Saudi Arabia's aviation authority warning of the possible ban on all Indonesian flights. According to a ministry spokesman, the ban is the result of a recent EU decision to blacklist Indonesian airlines on safety grounds.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
National757
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:05 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:11 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
PAKISTAN INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES Pakistan
All fleet except B-777; 3 B-747-300; 2 B-747-200. 6 A-310

Why would only certain aircraft types be subject to a ban? Isn't the entire fleet all maintained by a single entity? Aren't all PIA aircraft subject to the same safety standards and processes?
 
scouseflyer
Posts: 2167
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:17 pm

Quoting Gffgold (Reply 17):
I noticed that Saudi Arabia is about to join in with the EU



Quoting National757 (Reply 21):
Why would only certain aircraft types be subject to a ban? Isn't the entire fleet all maintained by a single entity? Aren't all PIA aircraft subject to the same safety standards and processes?

I would think that the fact that some types have been banned and some not would indicate exactly that this must be the case - the EU is happy with the way that some of the planes are being looked after and isn't happy with others.
 
National757
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:05 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:27 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 22):
the EU is happy with the way that some of the planes are being looked after and isn't happy with others.

Makes sense. Pretty straight forward. Would be Interesting to find out what in particular they find troubling about the rest of PIA's fleet.

I don't see how the EU can say..we like those A310s and B777s you fly but we don't want anything to do with your 733s.

Anyway you look at it, making this list is not something to be proud of, that's for sure.
 
User avatar
Buyantukhaa
Posts: 2301
Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 5:33 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:15 pm

Quoting National757 (Reply 21):
Isn't the entire fleet all maintained by a single entity?

It could be that the larger aircraft (which they possess in smaller numbers) are maintained by 3rd parties, which could give them a different safety level. Not sure if this is the case at PIA, but it might be an explanation - outsourcing makes sense if you operate only 2-3 copies of each model.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
Maersk737
Posts: 654
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 3:37 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:20 pm

Quoting National757 (Reply 23):
Anyway you look at it, making this list is not something to be proud of, that's for sure.

For the airlines involved or the EU ?

Cheers

Peter
I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
 
National757
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:05 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:21 pm

Quoting Maersk737 (Reply 25):
For the airlines involved or the EU ?

Probably for the airlines involved I would imagine. Restricts their access to a lucrative European market.
 
Maersk737
Posts: 654
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 3:37 am

RE: EU Blacklist Update Published

Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:25 pm

Quoting National757 (Reply 26):
For the airlines involved or the EU ?

Probably for the airlines involved I would imagine. Restricts their access to a lucrative European market.

Thats what I thought, but thank you for clarifying  Wink

Cheers

Peter
I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull

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