MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 15265
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:45 pm

FLLSJO and FLLSDQ daily starting December 2007. It's on! 

[Edited 2007-07-05 16:46:49]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
panam330
Posts: 1964
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:40 am

Wow. Certainly didn't expect that!  Wink Along with the London announcements, can we expect any more additional press releases from AA today? This certainly has been a big day for them.
 
PRAirbus
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:59 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:53 am

AA tried international flying out of FLL a while back (CCS/PAP), CCS got canned...PAP still goes...and so the SJU dailies. Not sure if AA can compete w/Spirit's lower operating costs. AA's strength is MIA not FLL. Rumor from AA pilots is that AA will try A300s from FLL-SJU and FLL-PAP to offer more seats and lower fares to fight Spirit's expansion. Let's see how that goes.
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3719
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:58 am

So Spirit did get their attention....their response is probably too little to late....
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
Flighty
Posts: 7684
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:59 am

AA is not trying to compete, they are just trying to hurt Spirit. This is an unfair game.
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3719
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:05 am

Are there any DFW announcements..there are a coupel of cuts expected out of there....CCS for sure...
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 15265
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 2):
PAP still goes...

It's getting upgraded to a widebody at the end of the year as well.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
belizexp
Posts: 273
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:56 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:53 am

So now we will have NK, DL and AA flying to SDQ from FLL....let see who is first to backout now...  box 
Belize my home sweet home...
 
HVNandrew
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:22 am

Is DL still planning on diving further into the FLL-Latin America market?
 
panam330
Posts: 1964
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 2):
Not sure if AA can compete w/Spirit's lower operating costs.

But they sure as hell can compete with AAdvantage and more baggage allowance, the latter being important to some Latin American customers, especially from the Dominican Republic. Being nickel and dimed on Spirit just to get a cheap ticket might end up costing those people more than flying AA, and they know that.
 
AJMIA
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:29 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 4):
AA is not trying to compete, they are just trying to hurt Spirit. This is an unfair game.

I think AA is trying to compete, maintain it's passenger base and also put some hurt on Spirit. I am surprised that it has taken this long for AA to step up and protect it's huge S. Florida market.

Is it unfair for AA to respond to competition? Not in my opinion.

Is it unfair for NK to fly FLL-SJO for rock bottom prices? Not in my opinion.

It is a free market. Consumers will vote with their pocket books.

MIA and FLL are basically the same place and they serve basically the same local market. Spirt's nine dollar fares out of FLL put a major hurt on AA up at MIA.

I think FLL-SDQ is a route that can work and I imagine it will be successful and stay around.

I think FLL-SJO is more of a NK buster flight and is probably only temporary.

Are these new flights going to be in addition to the current MIA-SDQ and MIA-SJO flights or will some of the capacity be shifted from MIA?

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 2):
AA tried international flying out of FLL a while back (CCS/PAP), CCS got canned...PAP still goes.

AA also tried FLL-SDQ before, which was also canned.

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 10):
Are these new flights going to be in addition to the current MIA-SDQ and MIA-SJO flights or will some of the capacity be shifted from MIA?

These are additional services. They do not replace any MIA flying. AA is also studying FLL-KIN, FLL-POS, and FLL-MGA.
a.
 
Flighty
Posts: 7684
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:49 am

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 10):

Is it unfair for AA to respond to competition? Not in my opinion.

Is it unfair for NK to fly FLL-SJO for rock bottom prices? Not in my opinion.

It is a free market. Consumers will vote with their pocket books.

That is true, AA has the right to compete with NK. But, they should not engage an all-out fare war. A war to the death would inevitably result in NK's death.
 
AJMIA
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:29 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
AA also tried FLL-SDQ before, which was also canned.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
These are additional services. They do not replace any MIA flying. AA is also studying FLL-KIN, FLL-POS, and FLL-MGA.

Yes. I remember when AA initially started the FLL build up to compete with LCC competition.

After a few years it was decided that AA could better compete with the LCCs at FLL from the hub at MIA and services were moved back to MIA and fares from MIA were lowered in line with fares from FLL.

If what you are saying is correct (and I do not doubt that it is), it looks like AA is looking at building up FLL again.

Do you think there will be any additional domestic flights added to FLL?

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:54 am

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 13):
Do you think there will be any additional domestic flights added to FLL?

Other than an increase in FLL-LGA and the return of FLL-STL, no, I doubt it.
a.
 
AJMIA
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:29 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 12):
That is true, AA has the right to compete with NK. But, they should not engage an all-out fare war. A war to the death would inevitably result in NK's death.

Well so far AA has just added flights in two of their most important markets from S. Florida.

I think NK is setting the low fares in these markets. AA will probably match them. So if this becomes a deadly fare war (a la Go in Hawaii) then NK would be responsible.

Personally, I am surprised AA has waited this long to respond.

On a side note, I think the NK aircraft look much better in blue than in black. Are those the only two colors they are using in their scheme. That seems to be all I see when I pass by FLL on I-95.

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
28thguy
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:45 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:20 am

This recalls the days of 767s on DFW-MCI.

Between AA and DL, I have a feeling that Spirit may not be around for very long.
 
akizidy214
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:10 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting 28thguy (Reply 16):
Between AA and DL, I have a feeling that Spirit may not be around for very long.

I believe DL is going to be the loser here. They need to adjust their departure time from FLL. The current time does not allow for any connections.
DCA
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:50 pm

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 17):

I believe DL is going to be the loser here. They need to adjust their departure time from FLL. The current time does not allow for any connections.

They don't care. This flight is purely for O&D. Connections are welcome via Atlanta.

Quoting 28thguy (Reply 16):

Between AA and DL, I have a feeling that Spirit may not be around for very long.

Delta will be the loser here. NK will do just fine. They have a ridiculously loyal following on FLL-SDQ. They have flown it foralmost three years now, and operate four daily flights.

It also needs to be remebered that not only is AA going after NK, but they are going after Delta. Delta has been looking at expanding into Latin America from MIA and/or FLL, and it is a pretty poorly kept secret if you ask the AA employees at MIA.
a.
 
tomascubero
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:19 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:58 pm

Great news, just that I am starting to get scared on how the hell SJO is going to do by the end of 2007 in capacity, already theres like 6 more flights/frequencies set from now to the end of the year, plus more transatlantic service probably coming in as well. May I remind you we only have 5 gates + 6 spots and then the Remote Ramp with capacity for around 6-7 parking spaces and right now, even in low season, we are getting a lot of traffic, high season is going to be caos! I really hope the DGAC takes over the airport from Alterra which is doing completely nothing at the moment and for the last 2-3 years.
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13072
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:04 pm

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 19):
Great news, just that I am starting to get scared on how the hell SJO is going to do by the end of 2007 in capacity, already theres like 6 more flights/frequencies set from now to the end of the year, plus more transatlantic service probably coming in as well. May I remind you we only have 5 gates + 6 spots and then the Remote Ramp with capacity for around 6-7 parking spaces and right now, even in low season, we are getting a lot of traffic, high season is going to be caos!

Which leads me to the question whether this capacity constraint may even lead to drastic measures such as slot restrictions. SJO is tight enough as it is, and with more frequencies (most likely with narrowbody equipment) from the likes of AA and DL, maybe they should start thinking about sending more widebodies into SJO instead, and I'm not talking about something small like an AB6, but rather 767 sized equipment. CO does that every now and then, and sends on those occasions a 753 or even a 764 down here on their IAH flight to cope with capacity demands. I'm sure DL could have a few 763As for this purpose to spare (they even send -300ERs on very rare occasions). SJO is a high demand market and could justify having one or two flights, even if only from MIA, with a 767, but the airport itself makes it a pain to operate, not just with the capacity and parking space issue but also with the obstacle clearance problems that restricts twinjets, especially the ones on DE's service to FRA.

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 19):
I really hope the DGAC takes over the airport from Alterra which is doing completely nothing at the moment and for the last 2-3 years.

Even if DGAC, or more specifically CETAC, takes over SJO, they'll have one hell of a mess to deal with. And even when they cleared things up and got the construction back on track, there's still the chance that the airport operating concession may fall back into the hands of a private company like Alterra which may cause some uncertainty again once things start going wrong.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:17 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 20):
and I'm not talking about something small like an AB6, but rather 767 sized equipment.

AA sends their largest aircraft, in terms of passenger capacity, on all three daily MIA-SJO flights. AA's A300s seat 267 passengers, compared to 245 in the 772s and 219 in the 767s.
a.
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13072
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:54 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
AA sends their largest aircraft, in terms of passenger capacity, on all three daily MIA-SJO flights. AA's A300s seat 267 passengers, compared to 245 in the 772s and 219 in the 767s.

I forgot about AA having their AB6s configured in a very high density configuration. I stand corrected, however my point still stands for DL and CO, who I'm sure they have some major equipment to spare, like 763A and 753s respectively. As for MIA-SJO, I frequently saw 757s and even 738s coming down from MIA, along with the AB6. How many times a year and for how long do they make MIA-SJO an all A300 operation, or is that more of a case of the service being permanently EQV?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:58 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 22):
How many times a year and for how long do they make MIA-SJO an all A300 operation, or is that more of a case of the service being

Year-round, 3x daily A300 for about 18 months now.
a.
 
tomascubero
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:19 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:44 pm

As LTU932 correctly says, DL and CO are perfectly in shape to make such a change, there is something quite nasty about seeing CO1485, CO1490, CO1530 & CO1446 depart to IAH on Saturday with all 738 equipment. Thats just riddiculous to me, specially that the last three flights are no more than an hour difference, and they could easliy could do double 753 service a day (like in the high season) and eliminate two flights.

Same case with DL, three flights a day from ATL and already 752, why not reduce it to 2 daily domestic 763?

BTW, back to the new routes, any idea what the equipment will be?

Regards,
Tomas.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:04 am

Schedules:

AA 717 FLL 0730-1030 SDQ 738 Daily
AA 718 SDQ 1135-1300 FLL738 Daily

AA 2113 FLL 1430-1620 SJO 738 Daily
AA 2112 SJO 1725-2115 FLL 738 Daily

And, yes, FLL-PAP is now bookable as an A300.
a.
 
sflaflight
Posts: 494
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:33 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:21 am

Wow, didn't expect this!

...and this is why MAH has been screaming (like me to) to combine FLL and MIA as one market as far as numbers. This just goes to show you what effect each airport has on one another. AA needs to protect their land. It will be interesting as NK has a huge following, but many South Floridians are loyal to AAdvantage. Hum! There might even be room for two at this party.

I guess these flights will be part of the 49$ fare war.

Could it get to the point that some LCC come to MIA and begin fighting there while AA is beefing up FLL? That would leave alot of defending for AA to do both at MIA and FLL. I would assume AA could handle that?

Could this be the next Hawaii and become another Go war?
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:22 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
It also needs to be remebered that not only is AA going after NK, but they are going after Delta.

I agree, AA is protecting is trying to protect its position in the very profitable South FLorida-Latin America/Caribbean market. AA is the dominant airline and plans to keep it that way......and AA is sending a message to DL that it should think carefully before adding flights beyond the FLL-SDQ service. The ball is now in DL's court: will DL take the warning and quietly cancel the FLL-SDQ flight in the future, or will DL go foreward with whatever plans its has for MIA or FLL (I have heard both as possibilities) to Latin America services and go head to head with AA? My personal opinon is that DL can do better elsewhere........this is one battle that AA is unwilling to loose.

Its funny, AA and NK seem to co-exist.....AA from MIA, NK from FL, AA taking the higher fare traffic, NK taking the more budget minded traveller (in general), AA having a strong mix of O&D and connecting traffic, NK probably more oriented to the O&D crowd. Will this relationship change with AA once again adding FLL-Latin American services? While I dont expect that AA will ever operate a ""Complete"" latin american schedule from FLL, AA will add flights out of FLL where necessary to protect their position in the marketplace.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
Schedules:

AA 717 FLL 0730-1030 SDQ 738 Daily
AA 718 SDQ 1135-1300 FLL738 Daily

AA 2113 FLL 1430-1620 SJO 738 Daily
AA 2112 SJO 1725-2115 FLL 738 Daily

Clearly one aircraft doing two turns, effecient, and a schedule that is oriented to O&D traffic. Will more cities follow? Didnt AA try FLL-CCS at one time?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
Other than an increase in FLL-LGA

Strangely, AA is only operating this service once per day.......does that make any sense?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
And, yes, FLL-PAP is now bookable as an A300.

It will be good to see more widebody service back at FLL.....is this the first time that AA has sent an A300 to FLL?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 27):
Clearly one aircraft doing two turns, effecient, and a schedule that is oriented to O&D traffic. Will more cities follow? Didnt AA try FLL-CCS at one time?

AA returned their FLL-CCS authority back to DOT. They are probably kicking themselves right now, because Spirit would kill for FLL-CCS (they have applied, have DOT approval, but still don't have INAC approval, more than eight months later!). I don't know if AA gave up their INAC authority, though. If they still have INAC authority, getting back DOT authority will be very easy.

More cities might follow. Again, using a single 738, AA can do a pair of daily turns, and I would look for one more pair of cities. My guess: Managua and Kingston. Managua is the second largest O&D market from Miami to Central America (after SJO), and Kingston is the fifth largest O&D market from Miami to the Caribbean/Bahamas (after NAS, SJU, SDQ, and PAP - all of which AA will be serving from FLL).

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 27):

Strangely, AA is only operating this service once per day.......does that make any sense?

Nope. This should be at least 2x daily. AA runs it, though, because they "need to". It isn't a huge money maker.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 27):

It will be good to see more widebody service back at FLL.....is this the first time that AA has sent an A300 to FLL?

AFAIK, yes, this is AA's first A300 service from FLL.
a.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:42 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
AA returned their FLL-CCS authority back to DOT. They are probably kicking themselves right now, because Spirit would kill for FLL-CCS (they have applied, have DOT approval, but still don't have INAC approval, more than eight months later!). I don't know if AA gave up their INAC authority, though. If they still have INAC authority, getting back DOT authority will be very easy

Good points....I fear that due the political climate between the US and Venzuela, Spirit will be waiting a very long time for its FLL-CCS application to be approved. Its rarely a good idea to turn back authority.....my opinon is that AA never gave the FLL-CCS route time to mature. As for additional cities out of FLL, I also agree that we will see another handful of destinations......Kingston and Managua make sense due to the reasons that you pointed out, but do you think that we could see a couple of more ""leisure oriented"" destinations out of FLL in the future, say SXM for example?

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
Nope. This should be at least 2x daily. AA runs it, though, because they "need to". It isn't a huge money maker.

While NYC-FLorida is not a huge money maker for any of the airlines......there is some biz traffic (Broward and southern Palm Beach county are the home to many larger businesses and even branches of big NYC law firms for example) on the route and with only one flight per day, AA cannot hope to compete for that market. With AA's huge strength in both the NYC and South Florida markets, its odd that AA is not more serious about LGA-FLL.

Regards.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
FLLSJO and FLLSDQ daily starting December 2007. It's on!

Just great.

Two options [ NK AA ] to skip MIA!
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:09 am

Delta might have already thrown in the towel. FLL-SDQ is no longer bookable on delta.com.
a.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
Delta might have already thrown in the towel. FLL-SDQ is no longer bookable on delta.com.

Very interesting indeed.........keep us updated, as the implications of this move by DL could be huge.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6876
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:06 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):

Very interesting indeed.........keep us updated, as the implications of this move by DL could be huge.

Last date the flight is in the reservation system is September 5. Can't say I'm shocked - don't really see the new Delta letting an unprofitable route like FLL-SDQ stay in the market with the new competition - best off using that 737 elsewhere.
 
LGA777
Posts: 954
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2003 12:46 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:20 pm

When AA did FLL-SDQ last time their loads where fairly weak from what I understand. While demamd from MIA/FLL to SDQ is strong NYC-SDQ is stronger IMO. The times on DL's FLL-SDQ service and AA new service southbound do not allow for connections. If DL/AA would run this service LGA-FLL-SDQ and return loads again IMO would be much higher as many Dominican-Americans would settle for a one-stop out of LGA instead of Nonstop out of JFK. I see AA is considering FLL-KIN, to me a smart move. When US flew international out of FLL I think KIN was the most succesful and was two daily for a while, a 319 and 321, and yields I believe where high.

Regards

LGA777
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 34):
While demamd from MIA/FLL to SDQ is strong NYC-SDQ is stronger IMO.

MIA/FLL-SDQ is actually a slightly larger market. While NYC has a larger Dominican community, Dominicans in Miami come largely from Santo Domingo, while in NYC a significant amount are from northern areas of the island, like Santiago. The Miami-Santo Domingo is also more profitable, because the fares are not much lower than to JFK, but the flight is about half the length. There is more cargo and more business traffic (which means more walk-up traffic). You also only have AA, NK, and DL (and DL not for long), while at NYC you add CO and B6.

It is pointless to allow connections onto this service. Connections go via Miami.
a.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:14 pm

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 33):
Last date the flight is in the reservation system is September 5. Can't say I'm shocked - don't really see the new Delta letting an unprofitable route like FLL-SDQ stay in the market with the new competition - best off using that 737 elsewhere.

huh? The New Delta just added the FLL-SDQ route to its system and decided to go head-to-head with NK on the route......and the route was rumored to be the first of many to be launched by DL in the MIA/FLL-Latin American market. Now, AA has announced the FLL-SDQ and FLL-SJO service and DL is pulling its FLL-SDQ flight? If that is the case, is DL also cancelling any plans it may have had for MIA/FLL-Latin America?

As I said above, I think that there are better opportunities for DL than getting into a huge battle with AA for the South FLorida-Latin AMerica market. Delta can continue to grow its Latin American route system out of ATL, which has been rather successful so far....DL has struggled with and pulled a few smaller destinations in the carib/latin america out of ATL, but in general, most of the services are doing quite well.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:47 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
.DL has struggled with and pulled a few smaller destinations in the carib/latin america out of ATL, but in general, most of the services are doing quite well.

It's a mix bag. Merida is being discontinued, as was Ixtapa. Hermosillio is gone soon, too. San Pedro Sula is doing so poorly, it might be downgraded to a CRJ-700 soon. Managua is also doing poorly, barely averaging 50% loads (and the LAX fight was already discontinued). Kingston (not Latin America, but Latin-style VFR market) is doing a lot better now that it is an E70 jet, but had struggled. Ponce and Aguadilla barely lasted a year. Santiago (DR) never got planned service to Atlanta, because advanced loads were horrendous.

Caribbean destinations, overall, are doing great. So far, though, George Town and North Eleuthera are doing horrendously (it is still early for them, but their initial performance is much worse than typical), and Fort de France and Pointe Pitre aren't doing so hot either. If they don't improve this winter, I'd be surprised if they stay around. Bridgetown and Port of Spain, heavy VFR markets, seem to be doing really well.

Ecuador has been a strong performer (with 73Gs coming, it would make sense for Delta to give GYE and UIO a non-stop each if they could get authorization). Belize is doing a lot better. Rio de Janeiro is really shining for them. Most of the LAX-Mexico expansion seems to be working just fine. And, of course, the more traditional markets - Buenos Aires, Bogota, Panama, etc. - are all solid performers for Delta (although JFK-GRU isn't doing so hot, especially yield-wise). San Jose is seeing three daily flights right now during peak season, while Panama and Lima are seeing more frequencies, and Delta is the largest US airline at Guanacaste Liberia.

Keep in mind, though, that it is doubtful that Delta pulling FLL-SDQ has something to do with AA entering FLL-SDQ.

It is exactly because of the poor performance of secondary VFR markets from Atlanta that Delta is pushing big from LAX and JFK into Latin America, and would ideally like to push from FLL/MIA, but I don't see them doing it because it is so much more competitive.
a.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5272
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:50 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
Delta can continue to grow its Latin American route system out of ATL, which has been rather successful so far....

Actually, I think DL has just about maxed out their Latin American growth from ATL. They've got all the primary and secondary routes covered. The tertiary markets haven't worked so well and probably never will from ATL. This is why DL is growing LAX/JFK Latin American ops. These markets have no truly dominant player and have growth potential.

South Florida is a problem for DL for two reasons. One reaon is competition, AA and to a lesser extent NK, are tough competitors. AA has the high-end market covered and NK gets the low-end of the market. The second reason is DL's reputation in South Florida. In South Florida, DL is primarily known as an East-coast domestic leisure carrier that shuttles people up and down the east coast. DL is not known as a Latin American carrier. Trying to change peoples perception is very difficult. USAirways had a similar reputation problem when they attempted their FLL buildup....though to be fair US had other problems too.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24558
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:17 am

Also to note about the FLL changes, the A300 scheduled for FLL-PAP-FLL originates in FLL and returns to FLL. They are obviously not going to have that A300 sit on the tarmac at FLL from 2pm to 9am the next day. This basiclly gives away that it will be used on FLL-SJU.
a.
 
sflaflight
Posts: 494
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:33 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39):
Also to note about the FLL changes, the A300 scheduled for FLL-PAP-FLL originates in FLL and returns to FLL. They are obviously not going to have that A300 sit on the tarmac at FLL from 2pm to 9am the next day. This basiclly gives away that it will be used on FLL-SJU.

Makes sense to me. I see FLL-SJU as a great AB3 route.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 38):
The second reason is DL's reputation in South Florida. In South Florida, DL is primarily known as an East-coast domestic leisure carrier that shuttles people up and down the east coast. DL is not known as a Latin American carrier. Trying to change peoples perception is very difficult. USAirways had a similar reputation problem when they attempted their FLL buildup....though to be fair US had other problems too.

You guys can correct me if you think I'm wrong, but lately I get the feeling (and again, this might just be personal) that DLs reputation has fallen in FLL. I remember the days when DL was king at FLL. These days, I'm hearing alot of complaining about the customer service at FLL and the many changes involved such as the song experiment, the in and out of connection routes and the F8 / RP problems. I know it is now the new DL, but many people still haven't made that connection.

Does anyone know if DLs Skymile following as diminished? I think AA and CO seem to be doing better in FLL lately. Also, add that to the LCC competion, too.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 40):
You guys can correct me if you think I'm wrong, but lately I get the feeling (and again, this might just be personal) that DLs reputation has fallen in FLL. I remember the days when DL was king at FLL. These days, I'm hearing alot of complaining about the customer service at FLL and the many changes involved such as the song experiment, the in and out of connection routes and the F8 / RP problems. I know it is now the new DL, but many people still haven't made that connection.

Its so hard to generalize.....but the huge growth of JetBlue on the BOS-FLL and JFK/LGA/EWR-FLL routes has certainly impacted DL; DL ruled on these routes for years and years.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5272
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:39 am

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 40):
You guys can correct me if you think I'm wrong, but lately I get the feeling (and again, this might just be personal) that DLs reputation has fallen in FLL.

I can't say for certain, but I wouldn't be surprised if DL's reputation has taken a hit. They've been kind of shizophrenic in regards to FLL over the past few years. Lots of routes being added and dropped, changing products (DLX, Song) and pulling F off of key routes. I know some of DL's frequent flyers were driven away when DL changed LGA-FLL from mainline to Song. It's mainline again now, but the damage is done.
 
tomascubero
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:19 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 40):
I remember the days when DL was king at FLL.

I have noticed this too, spotter-wise. Back in 2005 in 3 hours you would see around 3 767-400, a couple of 757-200 and even the occassional 737-200/800 would also pop in.

Then when I returned this year in February, I saw in like 6 hours maybe 3 757-200 and one 737-800 and stop counting, there were more CO & AA than DL IIRC.
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:49 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39):
Also to note about the FLL changes, the A300 scheduled for FLL-PAP-FLL originates in FLL and returns to FLL. They are obviously not going to have that A300 sit on the tarmac at FLL from 2pm to 9am the next day. This basiclly gives away that it will be used on FLL-SJU.

Or flying to MGA 3pm and KIN 9pm (arriving FLL 8am)
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3719
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 37):
t's a mix bag. Merida is being discontinued, as was Ixtapa. Hermosillio is gone soon, too. San Pedro Sula is doing so poorly, it might be downgraded to a CRJ-700 soon. Managua is also doing poorly, barely averaging 50% loads (and the LAX fight was already discontinued). Kingston (not Latin America, but Latin-style VFR market) is doing a lot better now that it is an E70 jet, but had struggled. Ponce and Aguadilla barely lasted a year. Santiago (DR) never got planned service to Atlanta, because advanced loads were horrendous.


Going to a CRJ on San Pedro Sula might be what that route needs to survive and nuture.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 37):
Belize is doing a lot better

Agreed..but they are still going from daily to 1Xweekly Sept to Nov....not a real committment on their part....they should keep it at 4X to at least try to build the BZE originating traffic. the LAX flight has been a bang up success..but yet they take it away till Nov (on the official excuse that it the toursit traffic dies down)..this flight is ALL VFR.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
PRAirbus
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:59 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:53 am

FLL-PAP will be flown on AB6 starting DEC/07. Departing FLL around 9AM and returning at 2PM...wonder where that AB6 will come from and where will it go after returning from PAP...so far, all SJU flights still show 757's unless SABRE is not yet updated. It would be too costly to keep AB6 all day parked after 2PM for next flight to PAP at 9AM...something's not right. I doubt AA will ferry AB6 everyday from MIA-FLL to cover PAP flight. Any guesses??????
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 46):
FLL-PAP will be flown on AB6 starting DEC/07. Departing FLL around 9AM and returning at 2PM...wonder where that AB6 will come from and where will it go after returning from PAP...so far, all SJU flights still show 757's unless SABRE is not yet updated. It would be too costly to keep AB6 all day parked after 2PM for next flight to PAP at 9AM...something's not right. I doubt AA will ferry AB6 everyday from MIA-FLL to cover PAP flight. Any guesses??????

Here is your answer:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39):
Also to note about the FLL changes, the A300 scheduled for FLL-PAP-FLL originates in FLL and returns to FLL. They are obviously not going to have that A300 sit on the tarmac at FLL from 2pm to 9am the next day. This basiclly gives away that it will be used on FLL-SJU.

SJU is another market that can support the A300 out of FLL.......in the coming weeks, schedules will be updated.
 
njdevilsin03
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:03 am

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:53 pm

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business...363.story?coll=sfla-business-front

In a move to check fast-expanding Spirit Airlines, American said it will fly nonstop for the first time between Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport and San Jose, Costa Rica.

Beyond Costa Rica, American Airlines also will reinstate service to Santo Domingo, in the Dominican Republic, that was suspended from Fort Lauderdale in 2005. Two other Caribbean routes served by American will get larger planes, starting in December.


Beyond its new routes, American said Monday it will put 267-seat A-300 planes from Fort Lauderdale on its daily flight to Haiti and one of its three daily trips to San Juan, Puerto Rico. It currently uses a 148-seat plane for flights to Port-au-Prince and 188-seat planes to Puerto Rico.
717, 727, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 753, 762, 763, 777, DC9, MD80, DC10, L1011, ERJ, CRJ, ATR, DH8, A300,
 
PRAirbus
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:59 pm

RE: AA Adds FLL/SJO And FLL/SDQ

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:57 am

Here's the answer from AA website. A300's to SJU & PAP from FLL in DEC/07.

---AA'S FLL SERVICE TO EXPAND IN DECEMBER 2007---


American Airlines will bolster its Fort Lauderdale schedule Dec. 13 by adding new service to San Jose, Costa Rica, and Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic. Additionally, American will upgrade some flights between Fort Lauderdale and San Juan, Puerto Rico, and its flight to Port-au-Prince, Haiti, to larger aircraft. "We continue to see increased demand for service from Fort Lauderdale to Latin America and the Caribbean," said Henry Joyner, Senior Vice President – Planning. "These new flights and larger aircraft will help us provide the service our customers are asking for." See the press release on AA.com.