positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:22 pm

Emirates aims to redraw world aviation map
by Leslie Wayne

Thursday, July 5, 2007
PARIS: The chairman of Emirates Airlines - Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed Al-Maktoum of the ruling family of Dubai - has grand ambitions, and a bankroll to match.

He has a huge pot of money to spend, $82 billion from his government, the airline and other financiers. He loves large planes and has ordered 55 super-jumbo A380s to create the biggest fleet of these double-decker planes in the world. And he wants to make Dubai, a sheikhdom by the sea, the busiest airline hub in the world, overtaking London, New York and Singapore.

More here: http://www.iht.com/bin/print.php?id=6515813
 
EA772LR
Posts: 1285
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:13 pm

I know there is a lot of foreign interest in UAE and they are one of the most stable Arab countries, but I think EK is a bit too ambitious. All it takes is a major disaster from a terrorist act (not just in Dubai, but New York, London, Singapore, etc.) to cripple the world's economy and put a major halt on air traffic. By no means am I saying just live in a box, but I think you have to be reasonable-and 55 A380's, numerous 77W's, 100 787's or A350XWB's....isn't that a bit TOO ambitious???
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:34 pm

Quoting Positiverate (Thread starter):

This article seems to fly in the face of EK apologists on a.net who claim it's just a public company like any other and doesn't have direct government support, that they are really turning a profit, that they have to get financing like everyone else, etc., etc.

But it sure sounds as if he's a rich royal with a big bankroll, a bigger ego, and even bigger delusions of grandeur, and such people in the past have done well for a while, but it never ends well...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ABpositive
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:36 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:47 pm

These things are always a gamble. Ryanair did a similar thing and thrown a lot of money when many others would have been against it, but it paid off for them.
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:51 pm

Quoting Positiverate (Thread starter):
And he wants to make Dubai, a sheikhdom by the sea, the busiest airline hub in the world, overtaking London, New York and Singapore.

Trouble is, Dubai is about 1,000nms. too far to the east at present - it's out of non-stop range of the US West Coast with present-day equipment.. So they can connect to NYC westbound in a single hop, but not to LAX. If they COULD get to LAX nonstop westbound, they'd be able to circle the world in four hops, and be a genuine 'world' airline. But until one of the manufacturers produces an aeroplane that will give them that capability, they're limited to Dubai-NYC westbound, and Dubai-LAX (with one stop) eastbound.

No wonder they keep pushing both manufacturers to give them maximum-capacity long-range aircraft........
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
phoenixflyer
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:12 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:18 pm

Dubai to Los Angeles is well within the range of EKs 345. The shortest route between the two also isnt to the west or east, its north over the pole. I dont think its a range issue that has stopped them from expanding into LAX. The only reason someone from LA would fly to Dubai would be for a connection to Africa or the Middle East. I just don't think they could support the loads for such a long flight when there are more profitable markets they can fly to.
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:25 pm

Quoting Positiverate (Thread starter):
The chairman of Emirates Airlines - Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed Al-Maktoum of the ruling family of Dubai - has grand ambitions, and a bankroll to match.

Too bad many pilots for Emirates can't wait to leave....they are treated like crap. Just check the pilot forums on the web.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:43 pm

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 1):
I know there is a lot of foreign interest in UAE and they are one of the most stable Arab countries, but I think EK is a bit too ambitious. All it takes is a major disaster from a terrorist act (not just in Dubai, but New York, London, Singapore, etc.) to cripple the world's economy and put a major halt on air traffic. By no means am I saying just live in a box, but I think you have to be reasonable-and 55 A380's, numerous 77W's, 100 787's or A350XWB's....isn't that a bit TOO ambitious???

...the London bombings from a few years ago didn't stop traveling to DXB...not to mention, many people from other places like going to DXB...add the business aspect of it (i.e.-banking, commerce, etc)...

..also, 40-50 of their new order would be for replacement aircraft...ambitious? yes...over-extending? possibly..but give them credit for taking chances and trying outside of the box....

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):

This article seems to fly in the face of EK apologists on a.net who claim it's just a public company like any other and doesn't have direct government support, that they are really turning a profit, that they have to get financing like everyone else, etc., etc.

..actually not really....while we know EK is a quasi-independent company, they still have to turn a profit as they have loans, etc....to pay...yes, they have advantages which other countries/carriers don't have....but hey, can you blame them for taking advantage of the situation? Look at other fully state-run air carriers, they totally pathetic....

Quoting B777ER (Reply 6):
Quoting Positiverate (Thread starter):
The chairman of Emirates Airlines - Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed Al-Maktoum of the ruling family of Dubai - has grand ambitions, and a bankroll to match.

Too bad many pilots for Emirates can't wait to leave....they are treated like crap. Just check the pilot forums on the web.

..maybe they will have to pay more to the pilots...it might affect some profitability, but lets see pilots leaving "en masse" as many here and on the PPRUNE website claim
"Up the Irons!"
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:46 pm

Quoting Phoenixflyer (Reply 5):
I dont think its a range issue that has stopped them from expanding into LAX.

The importance of LAX is that they could then provide trans-Pacific services to and from Australia, Phoenixflier, creating a four-stop mass-transit round-world network through Dubai. The A345 simply won't 'cut it' because of its limited passenger loads at extreme range.

[Edited 2007-07-06 07:47:22]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
phoenixflyer
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:12 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:04 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):
The importance of LAX is that they could then provide trans-Pacific services to and from Australia,

Of course, everyone wants to fly the US-Australia route and I wasnt saying its illogical for them to even want to fly to LAX. It just doesnt make sense to have a DXB-LAX flight. SYD/MEL-LAX on EK makes sense but that wasnt the problem that you brought up. DXB has nothing to do with US-Australia services. They wouldnt be allowed to fly that route without Australian approval and since they most likely wouldnt get it, no one would fly all the way to DXB just to get to LAX.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):
The A345 simply won't 'cut it' because of its limited passenger loads at extreme range.

There may be passenger restrictions on a flight like that but it is within range. Singapore flies a much longer flight successfully so its not improbable. If any airline would do it, it would be EK.
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:36 pm

Quoting Phoenixflyer (Reply 9):
It just doesnt make sense to have a DXB-LAX flight.

With respect, Phoenixflier, I think this article amply confirms their interest in DXB-LAX:-

"Because of Emirates' plan to expand nonstop service globally from its hub in Dubai, the carrier wants bigger jets and longer-range jets than just about any other airline.

"The West Coast expansion plan includes direct 16.5-hour flights from Dubai to Los Angeles, and possibly flights into Seattle, too, he said. It awaits the delivery of 10 new ultra-long-range $230 million Boeing 777-200LR Worldliners he has on order."


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...09_emirates19.html?syndication=rss

As to needing Aussie permission for LAX-SYD, I don't know for sure how the rules work, but I don't think that they would. Australia can't control who flies IN to Australia, as far as I know; indeed, they can't control people like Singapore flying ON to the USA. What it can do is stop them selling tickets in Australia for any onward flights. Seems to me that that wouldn't apply to Emirates west-bound since they already have established services to and from Australia ex- DXB?

The other thing is that Emirates have been reported as looking for a Pacific hub. If they established that in Australia the problem would be solved, and they could operate Oz-DXB and Oz-LAX in their usual 'out-and-return' basis - which minimises crew accommodation/stopover costs. EXCEPT that the key, for the whole system to work, remains the range to reach LAX from DXB non-stop with a worthwhile passenger load.

[Edited 2007-07-06 08:54:31]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:39 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):

The importance of LAX is that they could then provide trans-Pacific services to and from Australia, Phoenixflier, creating a four-stop mass-transit round-world network through Dubai. The A345 simply won't 'cut it' because of its limited passenger loads at extreme range.

..the -200LR would do the trick...after all, it will only be 150nm more than their upcoming DXB-IAH flight..... Wink
"Up the Irons!"
 
aminobwana
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:32 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:22 pm

Nearly all what A--Makhtoon states in the thread starter article is in need of substantiation. As far I know, there is no comprehensive study available showing that looking in the future, the EK expansion scheme is realistic.

The quotes below, as far not indicated otherwise, are from the Thread Starter article:

Quote:
Of course, success for Maktoum is not just a simple matter of buying airplanes. He must still compete with well-established carriers plying many of the same routes as Emirates, attract enough passengers to fill his vast fleet profitably and hope that the economies of the Middle East, including Dubai, and emerging markets in Asia and the Indian subcontinent continue to grow at their current pace to justify the Emirates' massive investment.

And of course, additionally:
-
not compete only on the same routes, but with direct and non stop flights between cities where DCX wants to be the hub
-
compete with other want to be hubs as Singapur (SQ), Qatar (QR), India (Kingfischer), UAR (Etihad) and many other which want to do the same
-
superate the handicap that citizens from the extreme of the routes will generally prefer their own airlines in front of an a foreign one (Example: London-Sydney: British and Australian)

Quote:
Dubai is on a $365 billion building spree, and more development means more flights for the carrier. Construction projects include the Burj Dubai, the world's tallest building, and the Mall of Arabia, the world's largest shopping mall. The 1,500-square-mile, or almost 4000-square-kilometer, emirate is also building "Dubailand" - a leisure park bigger than Monaco - and the Dubai Waterfront, a development of condos and stores that will be the size of Barbados.

Even so, the own market, in proportion of their plans, is relatively small. The data above do not show that the total of the inhabitants is only 850,000, of which more than 500,000 are low income "guest workers" candidates only for the lowest airline class.
They cannot count with the population of their neighbors, as they are competing with their own airlines .As for the great importance of their establishments, this argument would be similar to say that Switzerland, due to its characteristics, would be able to feed substantially an enormous airline as the planned EK (with due respect regarding the Swiss!)

Quote:
The airline also benefits from an enviable location - Emirates bases its strategy on the fact that its planes can reach any point on the globe nonstop from Dubai and can connect any two city pairs with just one stop in the Middle East.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 4):
Quoting Positiverate (Thread starter):
And he wants to make Dubai, a sheikhdom by the sea, the busiest airline hub in the world, overtaking London, New York and Singapore.
Trouble is, Dubai is about 1,000nms. too far to the east at present

To NAV20 statement should be added also too far to the south. The mileage flawn from Europe to nearly all China, Japan, Korea using DCX as a hub is by far larger (and many flight hours longer) as by non-stop flights

As for the Indian Continent, Southeastern Asia, Indonesia and Australia, they are in the right position, but in all these cases must compete with non stop or 1 stop flights of SQ, QR, Kingfischer, Air India Qantas, all European airlines

Quote:
But new planes are being designed to go from city-to-city nonstop and to make that paradigm obsolete. He may be making a huge bet on a system that may not be as valid in the future as it has been in the past."

See above

Quote:
Cullemore of Aviation Economics disagrees. While planes might fly nonstop from London to Beijing or Tokyo, there are a lot of other European, Asian and African cities that cannot offer nonstop flights.

This is a mostly not valid argument, not only because the small size high efficiency planes as the B788 allow more often such flights, as the examples in the following separate post examples Reply 13 show
These examples can be extrapolated to most other cases.

aminobwana

[Edited 2007-07-06 09:27:06]
 
aminobwana
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:32 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:29 pm

Here follow the examples as stated in my Reply 12:

a) If the cities of the pair are small enough so that no direct flights either to the final destination nor to DCX are possible,
Example No.1: Nuernberg, Germany - Kunming, China
An airline combination of the end countries can do it with 2 stops:
Nuernberg- Frankfurt (high frequency) - short layover
Frankfurt - Hong Kong (short layover
Hong Kong - Kunming (high frequency)

EK need an additional 3rd stop and probably a longer lay over in DCX

b) If the EK favorable example that they could fill a direct fly from one extreme to DCX, distributing the pax to several other continuing flights, but no direct flights were possibly for the end-countries airlines:

Example No.2: Marseille, France - Kunming, China An airline combination of the end countries can do it with 2 stops, as before

EK:
Marseille- DCX (probably a longer lay over)
DCX-Hong Kong (short lay over)
Hong Kong - Kunming
i.e. also 2 stops as above, but probably shorter lay over time

OTHER
======
The qualified personnel costs in the Gulf states are extremely high (maintenanc, flight, etc.)
Compared with non-stop flights, the EK uel costs will be possibly lower, but only as long the route is not longer. All the hub cost and the time dependent personnel costs will be higher to much higher.

aminobwana
 
Fly2CHC
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:31 pm

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 1):
.isn't that a bit TOO ambitious???

Not sure about Europe, but booking flights East of Dubai has been almost impossible lately...SIN, BKK, SYD, MEL, KUL. Even as a Gold Skywards member I had to be wailtlisted in May for a flight to AKL in December!
 
UAEflyer
Posts: 1039
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:29 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:45 pm

I personally have a doubt in this article, but from my point of view, i think that being ambitious is not wrong, furthermore it doesn't cost money to talk and say i want to be the best in the world !!!
As my colleague stated, Within the next 10 years all EK fleet will be 2 to 3 years old. They are replacing their fleet and expanding at the same time. EK is owned by the Government yes, but i don't think the Government is paying something, they are busy with other investments in Europe and America, they keep buying stakes in huge companies in case any disaster happened regionally so the government can handle operation even if the region was under war.
Do you think that Dubai as rich as buying 100s of aircrafts and investing billions and building a new modern infrastructure at the same time, i as a citizen of Dubai highly doubt it
 
drgmobile
Posts: 710
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:06 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Ma

Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:16 pm

Too bad many pilots for Emirates can't wait to leave....they are treated like crap. Just check the pilot forums on the web.,

Oh please, I've never met a pilot who *didn't* say his airline treated him like crap!
 
User avatar
yowza
Posts: 4281
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
This article seems to fly in the face of EK apologists on a.net

Not really. Having deep pockets ensures the ability to borrow at discounted rates rather than paying for metal in lump sums.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
But it sure sounds as if he's a rich royal with a big bankroll, a bigger ego, and even bigger delusions of grandeur

Not at all. This is not about him this is about his vision for his people. The UAE has been lucky to have visionary leaders who weren't afraid to stick their necks out to try and make things happen. Many other countries would love to be so lucky.

Quoting B777ER (Reply 6):
Too bad many pilots for Emirates can't wait to leave....they are treated like crap. Just check the pilot forums on the web.

If you're referring to pprune I would a) take it all with a huge pinch of salt and b) understand that the toxic postings on there fuel subsequent posters to make even dirtier postings.

YOWza
 
EA772LR
Posts: 1285
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Ma

Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:51 pm

"...the London bombings from a few years ago didn't stop traveling to DXB...not to mention, many people from other places like going to DXB...add the business aspect of it (i.e.-banking, commerce, etc)..."

I respect what you're saying Jacobin777, the world rebounds quickly, but I was referring to a major disaster i.e. a 9/11 type event, or worse a dirty or nuclear bomb or something. I know that's probably not that likely, but with Iran supporting terror groups in Iraq and willingly be defiant to the world's wishes that they abandon their nuclear program. I'm just saying...

I hope something of that magnitude would never happen and EK can fully utilize all of these aircraft. I wish them luck  yes 
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
slider
Posts: 6814
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:30 pm

Something that didn’t get mentioned in this article is something called “reality”. It’s great that Dubai has this massive bankroll, total financial security, the unlimited resources of a country and Sheikdom that want to catapult DXB into the 23rd Century and do it overnight. But what about reality? What happens when traffic falls off if it does? What happens when other airlines compete as aggressively as EK is now? What is UAE employment law like? Ie: EK employees, pensions, benefits, wages, and how is all that controlled? How much does EK pay for fuel? There are so many unanswered questions about EK specifically and the UAE in general that tells me that not all that glitters is gold. I don’t begrudge their growth and rising star; I do also implore everyone to realize that this is hardly a level playing field either and if you disagree, I’d respectfully say you are naïve or ignoring facts in evidence.
 
ZKNEA
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:07 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:54 pm

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
But what about reality?

These are all valid and sensible questions, and I'm sure they're the very ones asked by the banks etc that finance EK's aircraft purchases and with respect I'd trust their judgment and trust that their loans will be paid back than people on this forum. If there were so many questions about their future I would suspect it be very difficult to finance their aircraft privately, even despite government assurances (if there are any, which I'm sure there is).

Quoting B777ER (Reply 6):
Too bad many pilots for Emirates can't wait to leave....they are treated like crap. Just check the pilot forums on the web.

I've not met all that many that think that way, some have issues with housing allowances however they are generally the ones that decided to stay in private accommodation (as opposed to EK compounds). My two cents questions why anyone wouldn't live in EK accommodation as all electricity, rent etc is covered regardless of inflation etc which is not the case with those staying in private accommodation, especially problematic with the HUGE rate of inflation in Dubai at the moment.

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
What happens when traffic falls off if it does?

If and when world airline traffic drops off I don't think EK will be alone with this problem, and they will just have to adjust to meet the market as many Asian airlines did during the Asian market crash, bird flu etc. However with their penetration in the Indian Subcontinent which has a rapidly growing economy/middle and upper classes/wealth and their pushes into East Asia/China I don't think that they would be as much affected as many other airlines with focuses on other markets.
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting ZKNEA (Reply 20):
If and when world airline traffic drops off I don't think EK will be alone with this problem, and they will just have to adjust to meet the market as many Asian airlines did during the Asian market crash, bird flu etc. However with their penetration in the Indian Subcontinent which has a rapidly growing economy/middle and upper classes/wealth and their pushes into East Asia/China I don't think that they would be as much affected as many other airlines with focuses on other markets.

That would be true if there were no Indian Airlines to compete with. However, alas there are a number of airlines in the region to compete with.

As for Dubai becoming a more important hub then say London, Hong Kong, Singapore, Tokyo or New York, HOGWASH!!!
I am really happy for Dubai that they are a Regional Center for business in the Middle East. I know that the region is awash in cash and that hundreds of businesses are moving in. For all of that, the commerce in and between China, Japan, Singapore and the United States is more than five times the rest of the world COMBINED! I just read a statistic in the Pacific Shipper Monthly that at this time there is a 20' container of goods shipped to the US from China every two seconds. That is 15,379,200 20' containers a year. That is China to US only.

Many have asked what does this have to do with air travel? Well, having been doing business in Asia since 1986, that number of containers represents a hell of a lot of "face time" with suppliers.

Dubai for all of its ambitions, will NEVER be in the same league of Hong Kong, Singapore, Tokyo, Shanghai or New York in terms of importance to commerce!  Yeah sure
 
slider
Posts: 6814
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting ZKNEA (Reply 20):
These are all valid and sensible questions, and I'm sure they're the very ones asked by the banks etc that finance EK's aircraft purchases and with respect I'd trust their judgment and trust that their loans will be paid back than people on this forum. If there were so many questions about their future I would suspect it be very difficult to finance their aircraft privately, even despite government assurances (if there are any, which I'm sure there is).

Come on...

If you think EK has the same challenges of getting capital financing as say a US legacy carrier, I have some swampland in Louisiana to sell you.

They're a pseudo state run carrier, with infinitely deep pockets. There's zero chance of default. No risk for a lender given collateral and covenant agreements that can be struck.
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:02 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 21):
For all of that, the commerce in and between China, Japan, Singapore and the United States is more than five times the rest of the world COMBINED

so how come germany used to #1 in exports for decades and is still head to head with china(whom recently overtook germany)? after all you didnt include germany into your equation yet it plays a HUGE role in worldwide trade
10=2
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
As to needing Aussie permission for LAX-SYD, I don't know for sure how the rules work, but I don't think that they would. Australia can't control who flies IN to Australia, as far as I know; indeed, they can't control people like Singapore flying ON to the USA. What it can do is stop them selling tickets in Australia for any onward flights. Seems to me that that wouldn't apply to Emirates west-bound since they already have established services to and from Australia ex- DXB?

EK would absolutely need Australia's (and the US's) permission to sell tickets from LAX-SYD. Just look at what AC and SQ have tried to do on the route, and Australia has basically put those plans on hold indefinitely (especially with SQ). The US in general has been very lenient in granting 5th freedom rights, but Australia in general has not, especially with a high value route like LAX-SYD.

But I do agree that the major hole in EK's expansion plans would be any trans-Pacific routes. EK would really need a Pacific Rim country that would be willing to allow it to fly anywhere with full 5th freedom rights, and that is difficult to foresee happening.

And in regards to LAX-DXB service, Emirates has specifically requested that Boeing be able to deliver a 748i that can fly that specific route with a full payload. Not sure Boeing will be able to pull it off.
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting Zak (Reply 23):
so how come germany used to #1 in exports for decades and is still head to head with china(whom recently overtook germany)? after all you didnt include germany into your equation yet it plays a HUGE role in worldwide trade

First, I didn't mean to slight Germany in anyway. Germany was # 1 in exports in terms of value but not volume due to the fact that Germany produces mostly capital industrial and high end automotive products. Now China has even surpassed this.

The same can be said of the trade between Europe and the USA in my example. Noone is going to travel to Europe from the US by transiting in Dubai.

I was simply using these countries to point out the fact that due to the distance of Dubai to the Pacific Rim where most of the world's commerce is done both in volume and value, it will never be in the same league as Hong Kong, Singapore, Shanghai, Tokyo or Los Angeles for that matter.

I don't care how much money the Emir wants to spend!!!  Yeah sure
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:04 am

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 18):
I respect what you're saying Jacobin777, the world rebounds quickly, but I was referring to a major disaster i.e. a 9/11 type event, or worse a dirty or nuclear bomb or something. I know that's probably not that likely, but with Iran supporting terror groups in Iraq and willingly be defiant to the world's wishes that they abandon their nuclear program. I'm just saying...

I hope something of that magnitude would never happen and EK can fully utilize all of these aircraft. I wish them luck yes

..I get your point.. thumbsup ...however, if one was to take that approach, we would never see innovation, risk, etc...

I'm not wearing blindfolds as I do believe there are inherent risks and there can be a slowdown, "bubble pop", etc..the question are...."when does it end", "will it implode or flatten", etc...we really don't know, and as long as the "going is good", might as well take advantage of it...I'm sure Flanagan, Clark, Makhtoum have made contingency plans..they are sharp people......

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
Something that didn’t get mentioned in this article is something called “reality”. It’s great that Dubai has this massive bankroll, total financial security, the unlimited resources of a country and Sheikdom that want to catapult DXB into the 23rd Century and do it overnight. But what about reality?

...its called "adjusting to reality".....these guys aren't ignorant enough to not make contingency plans...they have been around for 20-40 years in the aviation industry.....they hire the best and the brightest from all over the world...and with corporations such as Halliburton moving HQ, as well as companies such as Cisco, IBM, Microsoft, etc. setting up shop there, it provides a great impetus.

The smartest thing Dubai did was create a "tax-free" business zone....

Living in Silicon Valley, one of the biggest gripes I read about CEO's here is not the "expensive salaries" for employees but rather the high taxes corporations have to pay....

In fact, the CEO of Halliburton also made that comment.

With the Tax-Free Zone in Dubai, the city will be able to generate revenue and income through other means......
"Up the Irons!"
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:23 am

A bit of a biased and unsubstantiated article.

If you follow the money, EK subsidizes Dubai, not the other way around. Yes, they use soverign debt to fund their growth and benefit from the lower interest rate... ok. They are not the only airline where the government doesn't try to help them.

But most of Dubai's wealth is the fact they "cracked the code" on Muslim banking. They also benefit by being "Iran West" due to the current government.

Will O&D meet demand? No. But DXB has become LHR east. A hub to break up flights from impacted European airports. So I think they have plenty of growth ahead. Mostly due to their very low CASM.

Quoting Phoenixflyer (Reply 5):
Dubai to Los Angeles is well within the range of EKs 345.

Maybe... but LAX probably wouldn't fill enough F to make the flight profitable enough. Due to EK's current shortage of planes... they have to pick and chose their new routes.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 7):
they still have to turn a profit as they have loans, etc....to pay...yes, they have advantages which other countries/carriers don't have....but hey, can you blame them for taking advantage of the situation? Look at other fully state-run air carriers, they totally pathetic....

 checkmark 

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):
The importance of LAX is that they could then provide trans-Pacific services to and from Australia,

Australia?!? Africa and India I understand... but LAX is the US to Australia hub and EK isn't likely to offer fares low enough to justify going that far out of the way...

Quoting Slider (Reply 22):
They're a pseudo state run carrier, with infinitely deep pockets. There's zero chance of default. No risk for a lender given collateral and covenant agreements that can be struck.

There is risk. Only GE has foreclosed on a nation and they were really careful in getting sovereign governments in on the process. (Well... since "gunboat diplomacy."

The barrier to EK's growth is going to be Chinese and Indian bilateral agreements. They are moving towards open skies with India (partially in trade for those infamous low wage jobs). Will China let them hub to their African investments?  scratchchin  That I do not know... but as EK expands they'll find new markets.

Now, there pilots being happy/not happy does matter. We finally have a time with fast enough airline growth to absorb all of those who want and can afford to be pilots. But its nothing a pay raise would not fix... Perhaps EK will offer a premium for the captain of the A380?

I'm highly amused that there are always two or three EK threads on a.net.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
User avatar
yowza
Posts: 4281
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:25 am

I am truly curious to know what percentage of the many Dubai naysayers on this forum have ever set foot in the Emirate. Dubai is a unique, bizarre and amazing place that has gone from strength to strength aided by cheap labor, visionary planning (including contingencies) and a drive to create something special.

It's easy to sit from afar and be skeptical and make "ah what a bunch of filthy rich camel jockey" type comments but they are meaningless. Sure things could go south and EK could even conceivably fold one day but that's not reason to shoot down a plan before it has even begun in earnest.

YOWza
 
GlobalATL
Posts: 197
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:00 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:28 am

Do they have a world-class airport and the infrastructure to handle such a task?
TriStar BusinessElite FedEx AirTran Delta Air Lines oneworld SkyTeam JetBlue/jetBlue MAXjet SkyMiles Eos = good spelling
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Ma

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:41 am

I have no doubt Emirates will continue to be a huge and respected airline, but even the article seems to note that one of its strengths is connecting Africa and secondary cities in Europe with the Gulf, India and the Far East.

If you exclude oil, most of the world's trade is Asia <-> Americas, Americas <-> Europe, and Europe <-> Asia. That puts Emirates in the middle of only one of the trade routes, essentially the old Silk Road, connecting Asia and the Mediterranean. Even that route can be easily overflown by today's airlines.

I have to think that this is probably the most astute observation so far:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 27):
If you follow the money, EK subsidizes Dubai, not the other way around.

Every economy needs some type of transportation infrastructure to support it. Where Dubai is situated also allows it to take some, but not all, of the traffic which would otherwise overfly it if the seats were available at the price people wanted to pay.

I don't believe Emirates will be a major player in the Asia <-> Americas or Americas <-> Europe scene outside of a 5th freedom or two, or perhaps connecting Latin America with the Gulf and points east in competition with the European carriers.
International Homo of Mystery
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3894
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:14 am

Interesting thread. I haven't looked into the EK threads before, but just from what I read in this one I'll note this: any airline, anywhere, ordering 55 A380's is making a big gamble. JAL is reducing its 747 fleet and ANA is getting rid of all of theirs, as we know. And Airbus having 1/3 of their A380 order book with one carrier that has a lot of growing to do just to use those planes, well, that's a certain amount of....exposure. It's not clear to me, as to others on the thread, where an airline hub in the Persian Gulf is going to get the traffic to fill all those a/c. Existing airlines and hubs in larger population and economic centers in Europe and Asia aren't just going to let Emirates take their business. And will Dubai really continue to grow economically at the levels necessary to support the O & D needed for that part of filling 55 A380s?

Count me with those who will need to see EK's plans realized to believe them. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that their plans are extremely ambitious.

Jim

[Edited 2007-07-06 22:44:35]
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Bofredrik
Posts: 1133
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 1999 4:17 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:50 am

Many companies have done wrong when it is
to much focused on expansion.

Ryanair is one example...

It is easy to forget what you have here and now.

Do not forget the customers you already have.

That is your customer base.

Ps. EKs service is not was it used to be.
It is time to look on that NOW! Todays
passenger will tell much more people if
they do not like the service than if they
are satisfied... Ds.

[Edited 2007-07-06 22:53:52]
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 32):
Every economy needs some type of transportation infrastructure to support it. Where Dubai is situated also allows it to take some, but not all, of the traffic which would otherwise overfly it if the seats were available at the price people wanted to pay.

I don't believe Emirates will be a major player in the Asia <-> Americas or Americas <-> Europe scene outside of a 5th freedom or two, or perhaps connecting Latin America with the Gulf and points east in competition with the European

Well said.  checkmark 

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 32):
If you exclude oil, most of the world's trade is Asia <-> Americas, Americas <-> Europe, and Europe <-> Asia. That puts Emirates in the middle of only one of the trade routes, essentially the old Silk Road, connecting Asia and the Mediterranean.

And that is the point that I am trying to make. The goal of surpassing Hong Kong or Singapore, while ambitious and/or ridiculous whichever way you want to see it, can lead to expensive gambles that are unnecessary. And they won't have the luxury of always having revenue from Oil to pick up the pieces of failed experiments. Throwing money at projects does not insure profitability. In fact it can limit the profitability of any enterprise.
 
Wsp
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 7:43 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Ma

Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:06 am

deleted

The message you were about to post is too short and probably not of any higher value to the topic at hand. You should think long and hard before posting a message in this forum and make it detailed and a valuable addition to the topic discussed.

[Edited 2007-07-07 00:08:16]
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Ma

Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:32 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 33):

And that is the point that I am trying to make. The goal of surpassing Hong Kong or Singapore, while ambitious and/or ridiculous whichever way you want to see it, can lead to expensive gambles that are unnecessary. And they won't have the luxury of always having revenue from Oil to pick up the pieces of failed experiments. Throwing money at projects does not insure profitability. In fact it can limit the profitability of any enterprise.

..but they are not trying to be the next Hong Kong or Singapore per se.....they are taking advantage of what's unique to their situation....location, location, location........for connections, business/finance, tourism, leisure, etc.....

...not only are they purchasing planes, but they are building a nice aviation servicing industry also....in a few years, they will have one of the best facilities in the world for aviation m/x, etc.....

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 32):
I don't believe Emirates will be a major player in the Asia <-> Americas or Americas <-> Europe scene outside of a 5th freedom or two, or perhaps connecting Latin America with the Gulf and points east in competition with the European carriers.

..but that leaves out a good billion+ people.... Wow!...try flying to DXB, the various kinds of people (i.e. ethnicities, ect.) who travel/connect through there is staggering...

A trip to DXB airport, and you will see skinheads with tattoos to women in burqas literally walking 5th away from each other... spin ......I've been to DXB airport no less than a dozen and a half times the past decade..including twice this year, with a 3rd coming up..the amount of pax flowing through DXB over the past years is staggering..its getting almost as bad as LHR... cry ...fortunately they have the room to expand....

A few years ago, DXB was busy only during the wee hours of the morning...however, DXB is busy all day (except for a brief mid-day to 3-4 p.m. bank when things "slow down" a little...

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 30):
And Airbus having 1/3 of their A380 order book with one carrier that has a lot of growing to do just to use those planes, well, that's a certain amount of....exposure.

" He (Sheik Ahmed) is also keenly aware that Emirates has helped keep the A380 program viable.

“If it weren’t for Emirates,” Sheik Ahmed said, “they would have a serious problem with that aircraft.” "*.. stirthepot 

*NYTimes.com
"Up the Irons!"
 
romeokc10fe
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 3:45 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:44 am

I read an article that said they are trying to turn the U.A.E into THE toursit attraction of the Middle East due to their dwindling oil supplies, have to give them credit for thinking ahead. But I've been coming here to the U.A.E for the past three years and it's the last place I would want to vacation in the summer time, the temp can get well over 120 degrees F, the sky is often hazy and full of dust and dirt and the humidity can be unbearable! Sorry but me and the wife and the kids will go elsewhere!
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:57 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 35):
A trip to DXB airport, and you will see skinheads with tattoos to women in burqas literally walking 5th away from each other... ......I've been to DXB airport no less than a dozen and a half times the past decade..including twice this year, with a 3rd coming up..the amount of pax flowing through DXB over the past years is staggering..its getting almost as bad as LHR... ...fortunately they have the room to expand....

We will see what happens when the 787 starts to come out in force. Especially for the Indian Airlines that have ordered it. Time will tell who was right. That is a hell of a lot of A380's to keep full!!!  Wink
 
Wsp
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 7:43 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:57 am

Quoting RomeoKC10FE (Reply 36):
I read an article that said they are trying to turn the U.A.E into THE toursit attraction of the Middle East due to their dwindling oil supplies, have to give them credit for thinking ahead. But I've been coming here to the U.A.E for the past three years and it's the last place I would want to vacation in the summer time, the temp can get well over 120 degrees F, the sky is often hazy and full of dust and dirt and the humidity can be unbearable! Sorry but me and the wife and the kids will go elsewhere!

Thats why tourist season in Dubai is in winter.
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 35):
..but they are not trying to be the next Hong Kong or Singapore per se.....they are taking advantage of what's unique to their situation....location, location, location........for connections, business/finance, tourism, leisure, etc.....

There is no doubt that they will be THE regional hub for commerce in the Middle East. But to compare it to Hong Kong or Singapore is LAUGHABLE. Do you have any idea how many $ Trillions in transactions course its way through Hong Kong and Singapore due to its location next to the LARGEST producer of industrial goods in the world? Do you realize how many ships and containers pass through Singapore? Can you even fathom 15,768,000 20' containers of goods from China to the USA alone? Come on people, Dubai will be the center of the Middle East commerce but the commerce in the Middle East aside from Oil and LNG is what? Dates?  irked 
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Ma

Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:49 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 35):
..but that leaves out a good billion+ people.... ...try flying to DXB, the various kinds of people (i.e. ethnicities, ect.) who travel/connect through there is staggering...

I don't understand how that addressed what you quoted from my post.
International Homo of Mystery
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:07 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 35):
however, DXB is busy all day (except for a brief mid-day to 3-4 p.m. bank when things "slow down" a little...

The rebuilt/relocated 2nd runway and new terminal should help. I'd love to see a chick skinhead next to a burka... that would amuse the heck out of me!

I wonder when passenger duties will shift to JXB? I know in mid-2008 freight and business jets will head that way. But until Dubai gets more hotel rooms, their growth is constrained. (That includes EK too... you cannot have the "long connections" that they often pull off without an appropriately priced/quality of room to stay in.)

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 35):
“If it weren’t for Emirates,” Sheik Ahmed said, “they would have a serious problem with that aircraft.” "*..

 checkmark  EK probably purchased every A380 at little to no profit for Airbus. They probably also have excellent options on them. It will be interesting.

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 37):

We will see what happens when the 787 starts to come out in force. Especially for the Indian Airlines that have ordered it. Time will tell who was right. That is a hell of a lot of A380's to keep full!!!

The 787/A350 will cut into EK's market. But there will always be a need for hubbing. I can think of half a dozen Indian cities than are out of range of LAX that EK could/does serve. Again, I think the range to the West coast US gives EK a position. I also think the scarcity of slots at many European airports will force a redistribution. A redistribution that could be done by EK, EY, or QR I admit... but EK seems to have the business side more in hand. (In other words, EK generates cash, last I looked both EY and QR required government assistance. )

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18261
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:12 am

This is a very confusing thread.

A stable, Middle Eastern country, with a remarkable record of success but with no nuclear or military ambitions, has extraordinary plans to improve that state, their economy and thus their people.

They may not succeed, but (a) shouldn't reach always exceed grasp and (b) even if they only achieve half of their intentions, they are well ahead.

They are using capitalist tools to achieve this, they are keeping extremism at bay and, in the process, they are becoming a better member of the world community.

They may have some way to go in the area of human rights, but they are better than many and they are improving, in part because of contact with the rest of the world. Many "western values" (if that is what anyone wants) are imported by tourists. I've never quite understood why anyone would fly all the way to Bali to eat at MacDonalds, but the tourist dollar has certainly improved the local standard of living on that little island - if at some cost to the culture.

So I am puzzled by the negative reactions in this thread. Fifty years ago, Dubai wasn't much more than a desert - and look at it now.

 confused 

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Ma

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:50 am

Quoting RomeoKC10FE (Reply 36):
I read an article that said they are trying to turn the U.A.E into THE toursit attraction of the Middle East due to their dwindling oil supplies, have to give them credit for thinking ahead. But I've been coming here to the U.A.E for the past three years and it's the last place I would want to vacation in the summer time, the temp can get well over 120 degrees F, the sky is often hazy and full of dust and dirt and the humidity can be unbearable! Sorry but me and the wife and the kids will go elsewhere!

.....DXB does get a bit hot there during the winter....Feb-April is the best time to go there..unfortunately, kids have school, etc...but if possible, try during those months.....

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 39):
There is no doubt that they will be THE regional hub for commerce in the Middle East. But to compare it to Hong Kong or Singapore is LAUGHABLE

.....again, who is comparing DXB to Singapore or Hong Kong? DXB/EK is attempting to be the best it can be..irrespective of Singapore or Hong Kong..... Wink

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 39):
Can you even fathom 15,768,000 20' containers of goods from China to the USA alone?

..not so sure what does that have to do with Dubai/EK trying to establish itself as one of the preeminent cities/carriers in the world.. scratchchin 

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 40):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 35):
..but that leaves out a good billion+ people....�...try flying to DXB, the various kinds of people (i.e. ethnicities, ect.) who travel/connect through there is staggering...

I don't understand how that addressed what you quoted from my post.

.....my point was that EK doesn't need some of the routes you mentioned in your post because EK/DXB literally has a catchment of 1 billion+ people to connect.. Wow! .....while the B787's and A350's of the world will certainly cause some loss of business for EK and hubs, its not the "be-all-end-all" for transportation...hubs such as DXB, HKG, SIN, LHR will still be important....

Now if we can get a B737/A32X-sized plane where the CASM matches or exceeds that of some of the bigger jets, then EK/DXB will have a slight problem on its hands...

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 41):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 35):
however, DXB is busy all day (except for a brief mid-day to 3-4 p.m. bank when things "slow down" a little...

The rebuilt/relocated 2nd runway and new terminal should help. I'd love to see a chick skinhead next to a burka... that would amuse the heck out of me!

Lightsaber, its true, I have seen that occurrence...hence my comment... Smile

...I'm hoping the new terminal/runway will help also...the downside to DXB though is it doesn't have really have any good spotting locations.. Sad

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 41):

I wonder when passenger duties will shift to JXB? I know in mid-2008 freight and business jets will head that way. But until Dubai gets more hotel rooms, their growth is constrained. (That includes EK too... you cannot have the "long connections" that they often pull off without an appropriately priced/quality of room to stay in.)

....there is a hotel in DXB..its quite nice..

fair use excerpt:

"For long-haul passengers or business travelers on tight schedules, rest and relaxation are luxury that can now be well afforded.

The deluxe five star Dubai International Hotel is located on the Arrivals level of sheikh Rashid Terminal and occupies a further 2 floors above that. Consisting of 88 beautifully appointed rooms. Ranging from Royal Suite to Deluxe rooms. All services, such as room and laundry services are available 24 hours a day. All rooms are equipped with an Interactive Television through which you can receive high speed internet access as well as place room service order."

http://www.dubaiairport.com/DIA/Engl...Services/Dubai+International+Hotel

and there are hotels close to the airport..

http://www.millenniumhotels.com/MCIL...132$$HotelDescription?OpenDocument

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 41):
Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 37):

We will see what happens when the 787 starts to come out in force. Especially for the Indian Airlines that have ordered it. Time will tell who was right. That is a hell of a lot of A380's to keep full!!!

The 787/A350 will cut into EK's market. But there will always be a need for hubbing. I can think of half a dozen Indian cities than are out of range of LAX that EK could/does serve. Again, I think the range to the West coast US gives EK a position. I also think the scarcity of slots at many European airports will force a redistribution. A redistribution that could be done by EK, EY, or QR I admit... but EK seems to have the business side more in hand. (In other words, EK generates cash, last I looked both EY and QR required government assistance. )

 checkmark 

Quoting Mariner (Reply 42):
They may not succeed, but (a) shouldn't reach always exceed grasp and (b) even if they only achieve half of their intentions, they are well ahead.

..that's what I've been stating here ad nauseam... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
User avatar
calpsafltskeds
Posts: 2164
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:18 am

I don't get it. DXB is not well suited to challenge LHR, NYC or SIN to be a huge hub. The map shows that connection traffic isn't going to be generated over DXB to a large extent. DXB is too far east for US non-stops, too far south to connect Europe to most of Asia, too far east to save time in connecting to Africa. So, it will work for Europe-Australia, Africa-China/India/Japan, etc.

I believe a good hub has 1/3 connections, 1/3 locals and 1/3 visitors. Is that enough to develop a superhub?
sites.google.com/site/unitedfleetsite/
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 41):
Again, I think the range to the West coast US gives EK a position. I also think the scarcity of slots at many European airports will force a redistribution

There are two hubs that already serve the West Coast from India. They are called Singapore and Hong Kong. So it is EK versus Singapore Airlines and Cathay Pacific. And EK will take their share, no doubt about it. Will it be enough to fill all those A380's, we shall see.
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:13 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 43):
.....again, who is comparing DXB to Singapore or Hong Kong? DXB/EK is attempting to be the best it can be..irrespective of Singapore or Hong Kong.....

The Sheik was.  Wink
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map

Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:22 pm

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 46):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 43):
.....again, who is comparing DXB to Singapore or Hong Kong? DXB/EK is attempting to be the best it can be..irrespective of Singapore or Hong Kong.....

The Sheik was.  Wink

..obviously he's going to try to hype is city/product up.. Wink


..but from discussions here on A.net, no one is biting... Wink
"Up the Irons!"