Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
Posts: 3923
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:27 pm

Just trying to compose a list of what Lufthansa is preparing in terms of route/network changes:

Announced
FRA-MCO 5/7 A330-300
FRA-EZE 5/7 B747-400
FRA-EWR 6/7 BBJ

Rumoured
MUC-RLG (Rostock)
MUC-BLR (Bangalore)

Cancelled
MUC-BOD (Bordeaux)
MUC-SXB (Strassbourg)

Anyone able to provide some more info what is planned & going on?
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:32 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Rumoured
MUC-RLG (Rostock)
MUC-BLR (Bangalore)

DUS-YYZ
 
LH506
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:48 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Anyone able to provide some more info what is planned & going on?

FRA-KHI-LHE-FRA

FRA-BOG-LIM-FRA
NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 788 300B2 300B4 345 359 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
Eirules
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:38 pm

Heard a rumour that DUB-FRA is to be dropped
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
Joost
Posts: 1841
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:40 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
MUC-RLG (Rostock)

This has been a PSO-route, operated by OLT for the past years, and restricted for other entrants. Does the PSO expire soon, or has it already expired, or has there been a deal between LH and OLT?
 
vfw614
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:58 pm

The information about RLG is - AFAIK - based on slot applications with the German slot co-ordinator, which in all honesty can mean nothing at all. However, RLG airport has a new CEO, the former HHN marketing director, and at the recent annual airport press conference where once again staggering losses had to be announced, it was said that the airport desperately needs a link-up to an international hub. Obviously the OLT service is not seen as such a link as it is more or less just a P2P-service. One rumour making rounds is that Lufthansa could take over the MUC route and OLT instead operate a - long-rumoured - CPH service. We shall see.
 
Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:01 pm

In addition the new RLG airport manager has indicated that she wants to try to get a RLG-FRA link as well.
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:27 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 4):
This has been a PSO-route,

pardon my ignorance , but what is a PSO route ?
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:35 pm

Something like public service (comparable to EAS in the USA) because Rostock is a relative remote area in Germany and would otherwise have no essential air service. Basically the state pays for the service.
 
behramjee
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:37 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 2):
FRA-KHI-LHE-FRA

Im most interested in knowing the rumored details of this route...plz do keep me and all of us on A.Net updated on the progress being made by LH to return to Pakistan...thanks
 
LHBSL
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:00 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Rumoured

2 cents for DUS-MIA...
 
stevesdream69
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:09 pm

How 'bout MUC-MIA?
and how about giving a better balance to NYC connections from FRA & MUC?
Now they have 5 flights from FRA and only 1 (plus 1 Privat air full business) from MUC?
 
Joost
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 7):
what is a PSO route ?

A Public Service Obligation. Like already mentioned, the state supports the airline(s) that operate the route, because it could not be operated without subsidies.

PSO's exist in many European countries, including Germany, Ireland, France, Ireland, Italy, Spain and Greece and are often subject to discussion.

The most common type of a PSO is that a governmental body (either national, either regional) issues a tender (maximum 3 years by EU law) for carriers to operate a certain route, with a certain capacity and a certain frequency; sometimes combined with a fare cap. All EU airlines then can make an offer to the governmental body to mention the amount of money they want to operate the service.

There are Open and Restricted PSO's. In a restricted PSO, when one airline has won the tender and operates the route, no other airlines are allowed to do so. The reason is that the tender-contenders can in theory offer a lower price, when they are sure they will not face any competition during the period. Open PSO's are routes that can be operated by all carriers, and they can all receive PSO money. There are some other variations, but this is getting a long story for the forum  Smile

The European Commission and Court spend a lot of time on PSO disputes, most notably in France and Italy. There are, for example, many Restricted PSO's between mainland Italy and Sardinia. Airlines like easyJet and Ryanair, that like to operate these routes, consider it as hidden state-aid to the carriers that operate the routes (Air One and Meridiana). There have been rulings on this: https://www.easyjet.com/EN/News/decision_to_limit_pso_abuse_in_italy.html



A slightly outdated but extensive list of PSO's in Europe can be found here: http://ec.europa.eu/transport/air_po...rnal_market/doc/pso_web_120507.pdf
 
Joost
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:21 pm

Quoting Stevesdream69 (Reply 11):
and how about giving a better balance to NYC connections from FRA & MUC?
Now they have 5 flights from FRA and only 1 (plus 1 Privat air full business) from MUC?

IIRC, LH will make a swap: MUC will get 2 daily 333/343 flights; FRA will get 4 daily widebodies and the BBJ.
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:01 am

Quoting LH506 (Reply 2):
FRA-BOG-LIM-FRA

Which of course won´t be flown that way, b/c BOG and LIM are not in the geographical position to do a triangle routing, no one from BOG would go down to lim (2.5hors) and then continue to FRA (11.5hrs), it would be simply stupid.

My guess is BOG-FRA and LIM-FRA separate.
 
Eirules
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 14):
Which of course won´t be flown that way, b/c BOG and LIM are not in the geographical position to do a triangle routing, no one from BOG would go down to lim (2.5hors) and then continue to FRA (11.5hrs), it would be simply stupid.

My guess is BOG-FRA and LIM-FRA separate.

They could decide to add UIO or GYE onto the LIM flight. Am I not right in saying that LH once flew UIO-LIM-FRA?
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
A350XWB
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:35 am

Quoting Stevesdream69 (Reply 11):
and how about giving a better balance to NYC connections from FRA & MUC?
Now they have 5 flights from FRA and only 1 (plus 1 Privat air full business) from MUC?



Quoting Joost (Reply 13):
IIRC, LH will make a swap: MUC will get 2 daily 333/343 flights; FRA will get 4 daily widebodies and the BBJ.

MUC will indeed get 2 widebodys:

LH 410/1 MUC-EWR-MUC 333
LH 412/3 MUC-JFK-MUC 333

but from FRA they will only operate 3 widebodys and one BBJ:

LH 400/1 FRA-JFK-FRA 343
LH 402/3 FRA-EWR-FRA 343
LH 404/5 FRA-JFK-FRA 744
LH 484/5 FRA-EWR-FRA BBJ 6/7

[Edited 2007-07-06 17:36:21]
 
LH506
Posts: 246
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
My guess is BOG-FRA and LIM-FRA separate.

You are right. Has to be FRA-BOG-LIM-BOG-FRA. There is also a smaller possibility of initial routing FRA-CCS-LIM-CCS-FRA. But LIM will in the beggining only have 1 stop service. That is at least what the rumour says.

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
They could decide to add UIO or GYE onto the LIM flight. Am I not right in saying that LH once flew UIO-LIM-FRA?

It use to be FRA-BOG-UIO (Mid 90s) and FRA-CCS-LIM also in the Mid 90s
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LHboyatDTW
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:46 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Announced

back in March/April MUC-BOM was announced
The air in the clouds is very pure and fine, bracing and delicious because it's the same the angels breathe.
 
matt
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:41 am

Quoting EIRules (Reply 3):
Heard a rumour that DUB-FRA is to be dropped

I wonder why LH would consider cancelling such a route? Would there not be a big market for this route?
Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
 
hardiwv
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:47 am

With the introduction of FRA-EZE nonsotop, GRU will get a daily dedicated FRA-GRU B747, in addition to MUC-GRU and ZRH-GRU.

I am sure LH will announce something else in Brazil, possibly GIG comes into picture.

Rgs,
 
khi747
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:31 am

Yes i too have heard about the FRA-LHE-KHI or FRA-KHI-LHE begining from Octrober 1st.If this is true then it comes as a complete surprise since Pakistan,specially KHI has been completely abandoned by all European airlines including LH which left us nearly a decade ago.This is most interesting and is quite significant for aviation in Pakistan.

The LHE-KHI combination is currently being used by SQ also on their SIN-PAK flights but im not sure if this is the best idea for serving KHI atleast.I think the way to do KHI should be by extending one of their Gulf region flights from AUH or DXB or MCT.They can completely avoid having their crew staying over in KHI (which most airlines prefer) by picking up a new crew from say AUH which will do AUH-KHI-AUH.The last of the european airlines to serve KHI, SWISS (LX) also used that strategy via DXB.

But maybe the LHE-KHI combo might work.I certainly hope it prospers!
 
shane
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:33 am

Quoting Matt (Reply 19):
I wonder why LH would consider cancelling such a route? Would there not be a big market for this route?

I can imagine MUC-DUB would work better. High tech businesses abound in the two cities. I remember last year doing MUC-DUB with a very inconvenient FRA connection. Unless I'm mistaken, only Aer Lingus make the trip nonstop today.
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:41 am

6x weekly CRJ DUS-EDI slots have been applied for starting this winter. Not been cleared yet though.
 
Eirules
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting Shane (Reply 22):
I can imagine MUC-DUB would work better. High tech businesses abound in the two cities. I remember last year doing MUC-DUB with a very inconvenient FRA connection. Unless I'm mistaken, only Aer Lingus make the trip nonstop today.

Yeah only EI fly to MUC from DUB. I would imagine the reason for LH considering pulling out of DUB-FRA is over capacity. There are 3 daily EI flights and even some StaerAlliance partners offer EI connections through FRA rather than LH ones (Im specifically talking SQ here). Then there are also the FR flights to Hahn. I know these are not directly in competition with LH on the DUB route but Im sure they are not helping their Y loads
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
wdleiser
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:35 am

GET PHX BACK ALREADY!
 
blrBird
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:45 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Rumoured
MUC-RLG (Rostock)
MUC-BLR (Bangalore)

MUC-BOM - this was rumoured a while back.
from star dust....
 
ProPHX
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 26):
GET PHX BACK ALREADY!

Amen!! What is taking LH so long?
 
LHUSA
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting ProPHX (Reply 27):
Amen!! What is taking LH so long?

I think LH is waiting to see what's going on with US. US has expressed interest in flying PHX-FRA and I'm sure their recent attempt to purchase DL made LH a little nervous. US's future in Star was also a bit uncertain when they merged with HP. If LH were to return to PHX, they would need to have gauranteed, long-term cooperation from US to feed the flight. I hope it happens soon!

[Edited 2007-07-06 22:06:01]
 
EddieDude
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:16 am

I think many of us expect LH to, at some point, launch 4x weekly MUC-MEX with A343 aircraft. Any thought?
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LH506
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Rumoured

I also read somewhere here on a.net that WDH and LAD might be included in the future.
Does anybody know if there would be any frequencies available?

Maybe a return to PHC??
Does anybody know why LH stopped serving PHC?
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dalca
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:19 am

PHC is currently cancelled because of runway renewal. There are currently no services from Europe to PHC. It is not yet known when it will open again.
Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight KUL-FRA-AMS Flown in A319,A
 
A342
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 18):
back in March/April MUC-BOM was announced

See here:

Quoting BlrBird (Reply 26):
MUC-BOM - this was rumoured a while back.

 checkmark  Rumored, but not announced yet. But IMO it will happen sooner or later.

Quoting LH506 (Reply 30):
I also read somewhere here on a.net that WDH and LAD might be included in the future.

I agree about LAD, but IIRC there's the issue of traffic rights. WDH - I just don't see this route generating enough yield for LH.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
HT
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:39 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 32):
WDH

SW already flies between WDH and FRA and I suspect that there is enough traffic for two carriers fom FRA. Plus LT (now owned by rival AB) flies up to 2 flights from DUS/MUC to WDH depending on season ...
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
A342
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting HT (Reply 33):
SW already flies between WDH and FRA and I suspect that there is enough traffic for two carriers fom FRA.

IMO SW wouldn't really have a chance against LH, it might go back to one carrier.

Quoting HT (Reply 33):
Plus LT (now owned by rival AB) flies up to 2 flights from DUS/MUC to WDH depending on season ...

True, but LT earns its money with leisure pax, LH wants business. And I don't believe that LH wants to fly any route below a three flights a week.


Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see LH flying to WDH, but elsewhere they can earn more money.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
LH506
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:04 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 34):
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see LH flying to WDH, but elsewhere they can earn more money.

 checkmark 

Different though with LAD. That could be a higher yield destination, due to the booming oil and mining industry.
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vega
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:18 am

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 28):
.....If LH were to return to PHX, they would need to have gauranteed, long-term cooperation from US to feed the flight. I hope it happens soon!

Agree. Also, I'd bet LH starting a PHX route would reflect poorly on US's stature as the "home town airline". The problem with US is that they won't have a capable aircraft for the route until 2009, unless they've negotiated some early 332/340 deliveries as part of the recent 350 order. I cannot imagine US leasing something used before hand just for PHX-FRA - although a 343 would do it and there are plenty available. So the delemma is, should PHX wait 2 years for service to Germany? US is obviously now concentrating on building up Europe/Western Asia from the East Coast and gaining entry into the Eastern Asian market (China, Japan, etal.), so I'm not certain PHX-FRA is high on their list and maybe LH should step in with a(nother) code share agreement
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
beechcraft
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Cancelled
MUC-BOD (Bordeaux)

we´re still flying BOD. Rumours have it, it will end win winter...

Denis
That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!
 
fuffla
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:52 am

Are they still planning on a return to Australia?

They have so many code-shares here is not funny, and there has been talk for a while that they will make a return.
 
bongo
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:10 am

Quoting LH506 (Reply 2):
FRA-BOG-LIM-FRA

Any dates for this? This year? next?

Quoting LHBSL (Reply 10):
2 cents for DUS-MIA...

That would be perfect for me...that way I don´t have to do MIA-CDG-DUS on AF
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
LH506
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:17 am

Quoting Bongo (Reply 39):
Any dates for this? This year? next?

Rumoured for this winter (November)
NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 764 77L 788 300B2 300B4 345 359 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
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LTU932
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting LH506 (Reply 35):
Different though with LAD. That could be a higher yield destination, due to the booming oil and mining industry.

The problem with LAD is that they may not get any traffic rights since it seems that the Angolan government is directly retaliating against the EU for putting DT into the blacklist.

As for other destinations, what about a return to Bolivia? LH already operated flights to LPB with 742s at one point (I believe those made a stop in BOG due to weight restrictions), so why not re-start Bolivia service with an A343 to VVI nonstop or with an en route stop, maybe combining it with LIM or UIO?
 
HanginOut
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:07 pm

Quoting LH506 (Reply 30):
Maybe a return to PHC??

What does PHC stand for? (The cursor doesn't show anything when you scroll onto it.)
Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
 
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LTU932
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:29 pm

Quoting HanginOut (Reply 42):
What does PHC stand for?

Port Harcourt, Nigeria.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancel

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting Bongo (Reply 39):

Quoting LHBSL (Reply 10):
2 cents for DUS-MIA...

That would be perfect for me...that way I don�t have to do MIA-CDG-DUS on AF

A final decission on MIA-DUS will be made within a month, from what I hear. One rumour going around MIA that it will use a Munich-based aircraft, and go MUC-MIA-DUS-MIA-MUC, but take that with a grain of salt. There has been a lot of talk about LH adding MIA-DUS, but little about returning to MIA-MUC.
a.
 
fraT
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:42 pm

Quoting Fuffla (Reply 38):
Are they still planning on a return to Australia?

They have so many code-shares here is not funny, and there has been talk for a while that they will make a return.

I havn't heard any of these rumors over here. As you say, there are so many Codeshares (SQ, NZ, OZ, TG, UA). There is no need for LH to go back in this market.
 
A342
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:08 pm

Quoting Beechcraft (Reply 37):
we´re still flying BOD. Rumours have it, it will end win winter...

LOL, you should know better. Amadeus doesn't show any nonstop flights from November. BTW, how are the load factors and yields on the route?
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
cricket
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RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:19 pm

I thought that LH would start MUC-BOM before MUC-BLR. I think MUC-BLR will wait till the new BLR airport!
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:24 pm

Quoting Cricket (Reply 47):
I thought that LH would start MUC-BOM before MUC-BLR.

That's my opinion, too.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
beechcraft
Posts: 731
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:10 am

RE: Lufthansa New Routes-planned, Rumoured, Cancelled

Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:31 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 46):
BTW, how are the load factors and yields on the route?

I can only give subjective impression about loadfactors, but no matter which A/C is flying the route (CRJ 200, 700, or 900)
they are almost always pretty packed. 75% at least i´d guess. And we´re also the only german carrier flying there.
For now, that is. So i´d say, basically the yields aren´t that bad...but i don´t know anything about that, really. I´ll try to find out, anyway.

Denis
That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!