ATHYEG333
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Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:43 am

Hi!

While Aegean Airlines posts a 40 million euros profit and an increase in passenger traffic of 11%

in 2006,Greece's flag carrier Olympic Airlines is losing nearly 1 million euros a day, posting an

annual loss of 380 million euros in 2006! Olympic is also facing charges from the EU for illegally

receiving state subsidies of 540 million euros! Facing crucial problems (fleet, cash flow,

declining market share) what exactly the Greek government plans to do? Does anyone know anything

about that? On the contrary, Aegean expands adding new routes and ordering new planes

( A320 - A321). Last week Aegean also completed its IPO in the Athens Stock Exchange!

It's very sad seeing Olympic, a great carrier of the past to operate in such a desperate way!!!

Thanks!
 
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OA260
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:53 am

You cant compare A3 and OA. A3 has not got the problems of years of government corruption or draining it dry!!! OA in fact is amazing how it has survived. The main reason I think that the Greek government kept plying money into OA is because they were all getting their freebies out of it and it would be political suicide to let it collapse!!!

Anyway back in 2006 OA got a lifeline so dont expect to see them going bust just yet. People have been saying OA are going to go bust since 1990 and even before. Time will tell but OA has been very quiet at the moment as they are re structuring everything. Things are not tragic just yet but it could go either way. Heres hoping for better times. The new website is a big improvement and Summer loads on their key EU routes are very promising.

Article re: Greek government ordered to pay money.

The Associated PressPublished: December 20, 2006

ATHENS, Greece: A Greek court Wednesday awarded struggling national carrier Olympic Airlines €563.9 million ($744.5 million) in compensation for unpaid services provided to the Greek state, the airline said.

The ruling could ease pressure on Olympic from the European Commission, which has ordered the airline to return more than €700 million ($924 million) in illegal state subsidies.

In a statement late Wednesday, airline division Olympic Airways Services SA said “the decision of the arbitration court vindicates the position of (the company).”

Olympic claimed the compensation for unpaid services to the airline on legally subsidized routes to remote Greek islands, travel for senior government officials and conscripts, and relocation to a new airport outside Athens in 2001.

Transport Minister Michalis Liapis said the court’s decision would help the Greek government in its legal wrangle with the Commission.
 
Baexecutive
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:54 am

I think its time Olympic 'rolled over' died and was replaced by Aegean as flag carrier for Greece
 
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OA260
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting Baexecutive (Reply 2):
I think its time Olympic 'rolled over' died and was replaced by Aegean as flag carrier for Greece

A3 will never be Greece's flag carrier. If anything if OA goes bust A3 will stay the same and foreign carriers like LH will become more familier at ATH .
 
TUNisia
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:20 am

It's sad to read such stories of OA. I've always felt their livery was among the most beautiful in the skies. I'm going to Athens & Rhodes this summer (as well as an excursion to Turkey) and have chosen to fly A3 while in Greece. OA was twice the price on all the routes I needed. Maybe someday!

TUNisia
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
WesternA318
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:07 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
A3 will never be Greece's flag carrier.

I dunno about that, they already have the flag on their planes!!

Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
If anything if OA goes bust A3 will stay the same and foreign carriers like LH will become more familier at ATH .

LHand Air One are the most likely to be seen making more of an appearance in ATH, although from friends that work at most of the greek ethnic tour operators and travel agencies, OA is petrified of the new DL and CO's new offerings into ATH, not to mention US Airways' seasonal 762.
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OA260
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:37 pm

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 5):
I dunno about that, they already have the flag on their planes!!

Thats because they are Greek. If I set up a new airline tomorrow with 2 A320's I would have the Greek flag on it too. Doesnt make me the flag carrier.

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 5):
OA is petrified

A bit OTT if you ask me . US carriers have always been on the Greece to USA routes and it hasnt done too much damage. I wouldnt worry about US anyway. OA if far better than their offering.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:59 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
OA if far better than their offering.

Hehe, OA isnot petrified of US, but they are of CO and the new DL
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ATHYEG333
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:41 pm

I think the Greek government should find a solution as soon as possible or Olympic should
close for good! There are no improvements in Olympic for years. It is open because it has to,
eating Greek taxpayer's money just for each government's shake. Political rather operational
reasons keep Olympic open! There is no business plan! Even planes required for the summer
are leased in last minute! There is no long term planning at these leases resulting Olympic
(and the taxpayers) to pay double and triple the money for these planes! I don't mind if Greece
has or not a flag carrier, I just don't like to pay taxes for a company with no business plan
and enormous debt. If LH, BA or A3 could replace Olympic's network I'd be glad!
Olympic WAS a great airline, today it is not!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:01 pm

Maybe they should sell it to TK -at least the Turks know how to manage Turkish Airlines and make it profitable.  Wink
There is a small but viable market for an intercontinental Airline based in Athens.
About ten longhaul-aircraft ( but with focus on USA,Africa and China -forget Australia..) and twenty to thirty medium size aircraft plus ten regionals would be enough.
Since nobody really wants Olympic ( AZ has at least one bidder left..!! ) one should call it a day and close the venture .
Rebuild it on sound practice and realistic business plan assumptions.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
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OA260
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:07 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 9):
Maybe they should sell it to TK -at least the Turks know how to manage Turkish Airlines and make it profitable.

Err why TK and not another EU carrier???? What makes TK your choice more than the other 30 or so airlines that may be able to run it better!!!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:22 pm

Because the Turkish are very similar in terms of culture and character to the Greek..( even if many of your compatriots will disagree on this observation..)
No European Airline would like to burn their fingers on Olympic.
It's a provocative thesis,I know - but having travelled a lot in the region I stand to my assessment ,that both countries have a lot more in common than what many think..
The business-dynamic of Turkey could be a good thing for Greece if companies would dare to get a little closer and co-operate instead of maintaining old hostile ideas.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
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OA260
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:27 pm

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 11):
No European Airline would like to burn their fingers on Olympic.

I doubt TK would look at OA for the same reason of getting their fingers burnt. Anyway not worth talking about because it will never happen.

OA will either re structure which is what is going on now ''behind the scenes'' something that people dont seem to have understood . If this time it does not work then most likely it will just close down and they would keep Olympic Aviation under another name to secure intra island flights which are guranteed by the government as a essential service. They actually could turn OA around with some decent management decisions but this is Greece and even though its come along way there are still many problems with the old mind set.
 
ATHYEG333
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:34 pm

WHATTTT?????

I thought this i a thread about Aegean and Olympic! What made you think that Greeks
and Turks have anything in common? What do you know? Are you living in Greece or
Turkey to know something like that? Ya alright, Lebanese people are very similar to
people from Israel? How does this sound? This is an airliners forum not a political one.
As for TK they are not a good airliner either and in terms of safety they cannot even
compare with Olympic. Aegean could take over the management of Olympic! It's a
succesful airline anyway! Or do you think that TK can be compared with LH?
 
aad665
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:25 pm

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 13):
WHATTTT?????

I thought this i a thread about Aegean and Olympic! What made you think that Greeks
and Turks have anything in common? What do you know? Are you living in Greece or
Turkey to know something like that? Ya alright, Lebanese people are very similar to
people from Israel? How does this sound? This is an airliners forum not a political one.
As for TK they are not a good airliner either and in terms of safety they cannot even
compare with Olympic. Aegean could take over the management of Olympic! It's a
succesful airline anyway! Or do you think that TK can be compared with LH?

Hi,

You didn't have your Turkish coffee this morning?

Relax...

aad665
 
SergioAEE
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:29 pm

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Thread starter):
Hi!

While Aegean Airlines posts a 40 million euros profit and an increase in passenger traffic of 11%

in 2006,Greece's flag carrier Olympic Airlines is losing nearly 1 million euros a day, posting an

annual loss of 380 million euros in 2006! Olympic is also facing charges from the EU for illegally

receiving state subsidies of 540 million euros! Facing crucial problems (fleet, cash flow,

declining market share) what exactly the Greek government plans to do? Does anyone know anything

about that? On the contrary, Aegean expands adding new routes and ordering new planes

( A320 - A321). Last week Aegean also completed its IPO in the Athens Stock Exchange!

It's very sad seeing Olympic, a great carrier of the past to operate in such a desperate way!!!

Thanks!

Aegean would not be at half the mark they are if they were a normal airline. Their pilots are literally slaves and get paid NOTHING! and if Aegean werent financially backed by 3 banks then I would like to know what profits they would make. I work at the operations at ATH and I guarantee you that they are a horrible airline in terms of their ops. Olympic makes aegean look funny in someways!

SergioAEE
 
ATHYEG333
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:09 pm

To SergioAEE

I agree with you that Aegean is not the GREAT airline that is being promoted as! But
indeed has an operating profit, a business plan and anyway it has not the mess that
Olympic faces mostly every summer. I like to see Olympic reorganized, keeping 2 to 4
long haul routes and cut some of its unprofitable short haul routes. I just can't see
anymore Olympic operating like this!!!

To aad665

I am relaxed but I can't see the relationship between Aegean, Olympic and Greeks being
similar to Turks! It's airlines' stuff, not politics all the time!!!
 
ac888yow
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:33 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
A bit OTT if you ask me . US carriers have always been on the Greece to USA routes and it hasnt done too much damage. I wouldnt worry about US anyway. OA if far better than their offering.

OA may be far better in terms of aircraft (343) and amenities (PTV, etc.), but they should indeed be worried about US.

When I booked the price difference for a transatlantic flight between the two was almost $400 Canadian dollars, and US earned my business over OA because of that. The fact that I can fly from YOW instead of driving to YUL, and the fact that I will earn upwards of 10k Star Alliance mileage also helped the decision.
 
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OA260
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 17):
I will earn upwards of 10k Star Alliance mileage also helped the decision.

Well I can understand your point there. Im Star Alliance Gold and would probably make the same choice to get another 10K . But for those who are not into FFP I would deffo go OA.
 
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Embajador3
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:37 am

Aegean's livery is boring, however i like its logo on the aircraft's tail. More colour and bigger titles, would make it more attractive. I LOVE Olympic's livery, it's kind of classy and adecuate, showing their true Greek spirit.

Rgds
Flying Together
 
ca2ohHP
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:00 am

I've got to say I flew A3 last month ATH-JMK-ATH and both flights were amazing. Really attentive cabin crews, spotless cabins and very very friendly airport staff. I've heard a rumor that A3 may begin codesharing with US Airways by next summer. I can't say anything about OA, but I was definitely very impressed with A3 and the Greek people.
 
Chiguire
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:10 am

I guess I will NEVER understand how a government can subsidize a company - especially an airline - with such amounts. These are tax payer monies ! This is money even Aegean employees paid to the government.

This kind of acting is hurting the private sector ! Imagine all the money the state put into OA and AZ ! This is amazing and completely senseless. I regret to say this - especially for the OA and AZ employees.
But just consider the market - if OA is shut down - do you think routes, market and demand for the OA routes will get lost ? Most of the market will be taken over by private, profitable airlines. This will offer enough jobs for OA employees.
Just take the 500+700+ + + million the state put into OA.
How long could you pay the OA employees out of that ? Without operating the airline ?

For me the only solution for OA and AZ is: shut them down. And let the market do the rest. It is NOT the task of the government to interfere. Maybe OA gets up just as SN did ?
 
WesternA318
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 9):
About ten longhaul-aircraft ( but with focus on USA,Africa and China -forget Australia..) and twenty to thirty medium size aircraft plus ten regionals would be enough.

This actually sounds about right.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 10):
Err why TK and not another EU carrier????

It could be TK (who I know have a successful hub operation in effect, a modern fleet and are indeed profitable) or any other airline like LH, A3, hell even SA)">CO has looked into the matter, but has declined any action as of now.

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 13):
Are you living in Greece or
Turkey to know something like that? Ya alright, Lebanese people are very similar to
people from Israel? How does this sound? This is an airliners forum not a political one.

Whoa ATHYEG...relax bro, He was not turning the thread into a political issue. He was merely stating that another airline within the SAME region, which happens to be successful, could perhaps operate OA, or a new startup better than the greek government.

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 13):
As for TK they are not a good airliner either and in terms of safety they cannot even
compare with Olympic.

Can you state some instances of this?

Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 17):
OA may be far better in terms of aircraft (343) and amenities (PTV, etc.), but they should indeed be worried about US.

OA is worried about ALL entrants into their turf at AND CURRENT: Athens - Eleftherios Venizelos (Spata) (ATH / LGAV), Greece">ATH, although from a service point of view they are terrified of SA)">CO and the new DL, while US is just another capacity drainer on them.

Quoting Embajador3 (Reply 19):
Aegean's livery is boring, however i like its logo on the aircraft's tail.

Are you implying that this alone makes an airline successful?

Quoting Ca2ohhp (Reply 20):
Really attentive cabin crews, spotless cabins and very very friendly airport staff. I've heard a rumor that A3 may begin codesharing with US Airways by next summer.

A3 is indeed in talks with US, as well as with DL AND SA)">CO, and also looking at Homeric Tours in NYC to be a North American "distributor" of sorts.

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 21):
But just consider the market - if OA is shut down - do you think routes, market and demand for the OA routes will get lost ?

Chiguire my friend, how the hell are ya?

If OA were to shut down, either the market in AND CURRENT: Athens - Eleftherios Venizelos (Spata) (ATH / LGAV), Greece">ATH would right size itself, or we would see additions form not only Aegean, but definately from their Partners in LH, and AirOne.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
Chiguire
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 22):
Chiguire my friend, how the hell are ya?

Fine, waiting for U to come to CCS !  Wink

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 22):
If OA were to shut down, either the market in AND CURRENT: Athens - Eleftherios Venizelos (Spata) (ATH / LGAV), Greece">ATH would right size itself, or we would see additions form not only Aegean, but definately from their Partners in LH, and AirOne.

That's what I was saying. What does the Greek government need to put money into OA then ?
 
WesternA318
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 23):
Fine, waiting for U to come to CCS !

Yanno, I have to make that up to you guys, how was the meet?

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 23):
That's what I was saying. What does the Greek government need to put money into OA then ?

I think they still believe OA can be used as a political toy.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:54 am

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 13):
WHATTTT?????

I thought this i a thread about Aegean and Olympic! What made you think that Greeks
and Turks have anything in common? What do you know? Are you living in Greece or
Turkey to know something like that? Ya alright, Lebanese people are very similar to
people from Israel? How does this sound? This is an airliners forum not a political one.
As for TK they are not a good airliner either and in terms of safety they cannot even
compare with Olympic. Aegean could take over the management of Olympic! It's a
succesful airline anyway! Or do you think that TK can be compared with LH?

There is no intention whatsoever to turn this political- but believe it or not I have spend a lot of time working in and with both countries -both of which I appreciate - and when I brought up TK only because they have demonstrated to manage their airline quite well.Yes there have been some incidents with TK aircraft in the past,but their overall operations are very professional and service is improving by the years.TK fleet is very young,they expand extremely aggressively and I've never had any problem with any of their flights.
That said,I' ve had great Olympic flights and lesser good ones..the issue is that nobody dares to pull the plug and say-that's enough taxpayers money wasted.
By the way - I have a record from Anna Vissi -Antidoto- in which she sings very brilliantly songs that are very oriental -style . Interestingly enough I bought it in Istanbul,because the record was very much appreciated even by the Turks...
There are so many similarities between Turkey and Greece -Ouzo and Raki,Mezze,prayer beads,the explosive character of many ,the Aegean sea,the influence of the clerics- so to say there are no common issues would mean you refute the truth...
And when I took some years ago a ferry from Kos Island to Bodrum,the customs officials where a pain in the neck on both sides -well this must be some form of common genes..
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
ATHYEG333
Topic Author
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:04 am

To WesternA318
About safety and incidents for OA and TK look at http://www.airdisaster.com/statistics/.
I don't see how the same region factor contributes to better management.
Anyway it's a bid odd to hear that a Turkish airline will take over management from
Olympic! Turkish is just an average airline and it cannot even compared with any of
the other european carriers! Turkish has made progress but it is not in position to
run another airline... Finally knowing the relationship between the two countries it is
not the most wise move. What do u think would sound for Aeroflot to take over AA?
 
ATHYEG333
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:12 am

To Beaucaire

You can buy a CD from Shakira also in Greece. Do you think that Greek have anything in common
with Colombians?  Smile
I agree with you that Turkish have made a lot of progress compared to Olympic (expansion, planes
alliance) and that someone must reorganize Olympic like Turkish or just close the company.
But I do not agree with you that Greek and Turks are the same. I am Greek and I do not feel that
I have anything in common with them. I like them, but simply I just don't feel like this.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 26):
What do u think would sound for Aeroflot to take over AA?

Most likely the Russians would make the company very profitable...
They turned around Aeroflot within three years and now the company is out to buy other airlines.
What was a fact (Aeroflot being a lousy airline..) some years ago is not necessarily true today..
About TK taking over Olympic-it was a mere suggestion that any well-run airline can manage other airlines.
I knew the reaction would be harsh..  stirthepot 
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
TurkishWings
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 27):
But I do not agree with you that Greek and Turks are the same. I am Greek and I do not feel that
I have anything in common with them.

Wow... Chill to start with...

Secondly we have millions of things in common... You can't, nobody can, deny it... We have been living side by side for hundreds of years so there is a huge cultural interaction....

As long as people like you exist, in both sides, there will never be peace...

However, this thread might become more political so let's get back to the aviation stuff before it gets locked  Smile We can discuss it in a separate thread if you like....
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 26):
Anyway it's a bid odd to hear that a Turkish airline will take over management from
Olympic! Turkish is just an average airline and it cannot even compared with any of
the other european carriers! Turkish has made progress but it is not in position to
run another airline... Finally knowing the relationship between the two countries it is
not the most wise move.

National pride has no room in the marketplace this day in age. If TK is better adept to running an airline than so be it. It can be seen in recent years that the only thing going on at Olympic has been a fleet reduction, staff reduction, and route reduction. While for TK we have seen the airline take on new aircraft, add new routes, and expand. Even forging a close relationship with American Airlines. If TK were to run OA I am sure we would see more positive results than what we are currently seeing out of Athens with Olympic. The TK product is without a doubt far superior to the Olympic product. The addition of the A330-200 only re-affirms TK's commitment to growth and is maximizing its brand recognition to its fullest potential.

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 26):
What do u think would sound for Aeroflot to take over AA?

 rotfl   rotfl 

What do you think would sound for Aeroflot(Olympic) to take over AA(TK)?

 rotfl   rotfl 

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 21):
This kind of acting is hurting the private sector ! Imagine all the money the state put into OA and AZ ! This is amazing and completely senseless. I regret to say this - especially for the OA and AZ employees.
But just consider the market - if OA is shut down - do you think routes, market and demand for the OA routes will get lost ? Most of the market will be taken over by private, profitable airlines. This will offer enough jobs for OA employees.
Just take the 500+700+ + + million the state put into OA.
How long could you pay the OA employees out of that ? Without operating the airline ?

This would be best for both Alitalia and Olympic, I have often wondered why someone doesn't just pull the plug on these lame duck operations. Alitalia has been on borrowed time for years, it share company with Olympic in every sense of the word. However one thing that distinguishes Alitalia from Olympic is that Alitalia has much higher yielding bases than Olympic does. In the end I feel that both Alitalia and Olympic will no longer exist, if they do we will see what has happened to airlines like Sabena, Swissair, and VARIG take place. A cease of operations, and then a restart with credible management. What I think the plague of Alitalia and Olympic is are the constant meddling of governments paws in every area of the companies. It is sad as once Alitalia and Olympic were great airlines.

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 13):
I thought this i a thread about Aegean and Olympic! What made you think that Greeks
and Turks have anything in common? What do you know? Are you living in Greece or
Turkey to know something like that?

I believe that people in this topic about Aegean and Olympic have either flown on one or both airlines, or know of the products in markets surrounding Greece. Of which TK is a staunch competitor of Olympic. The problem with Olympic is that it has Alitalia to the West and Turkish to the East. It is in between two airlines with much stronger networks, and in that instance Olympic has suffocated for years due to both a lack of credible management and un-willingness to distinguish its product from the crowd.

What ever happened with the "Pantheon Airways" project? It would seem as if very little came from it if anything. The other thing about Olympic is that their website is a direct example of mismanagement. In this day in age the internet is key to business in the international marketplace. Taking a look at the Alitalia or Turkish website, leaves Olympic in the dust. The website is just another example of a once proud airline that has become nothing more than a bunch of planes, and a non-existing level of profit.

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 13):
This is an airliners forum not a political one.

Indeed it is so perhaps you should refrain from making posts that are factually incorrect about TK being a mess..

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 13):
As for TK they are not a good airliner either and in terms of safety they cannot even
compare with Olympic

What? How many accidents has TK had in the past 20 years? How many accidents has Olympic had in the past 20 years? The only major accident of Turkish was outside of Paris in the 1970's. Bringing that up is irrelevant as that was over 30 years ago.

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 13):
Or do you think that TK can be compared with LH?

It certainly can be compared to LH as TK is due to join Star Alliance in 2008..

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 8):
I think the Greek government should find a solution as soon as possible or Olympic should
close for good! There are no improvements in Olympic for years. It is open because it has to,
eating Greek taxpayer's money just for each government's shake. Political rather operational
reasons keep Olympic open!

 checkmark 

Agree 100%

In the end it is very sad to see that Olympic has come to the very sad state that it is in today. However it is the fault of mismanagement over the years. This is just another very sad case of a government using an airline for political and financial gain, all the while having no expertise what so ever to be in the airline business. The only hope for Olympic at this point would be to cease operations and re-start with different management. Or selling a golden stake to another airline such as Emirates or Air France-KLM. However the debt may be enough to deter anyone away from the rotting carcase known as Olympic.


-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 20471
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 26):
Turkish is just an average airline and it cannot even compared with any of
the other european carriers!

Turkish Airlines is far from a 2nd rate airline as you would like to make them out as, matter of fact they are on par if not better then many European carriers.

THY tends to score at the top of Association European Airline (AEA) ratings, operate one the worlds most modern fleets, and have been profitable. All things that dont apply to OA.

http://www.aea.be/AEAWebsite/webrsc/SerQlty/DL/CR07-Q1.pdf
In the first quarter 2007 report. THY was the best in baggage handling of all member airlines (OA failed to report its statistics), while being #7 in Ontime departures (OA was #26).

THY's growth and prosperity is rather a tribute to its management, its employees and the vibrant growth of the Turkish economy. To think the airline was only a European and regional operator as recent as the late 1980s, and now stretches a profitable route network across the globe successfully using its modern Istanbul hub as bridge between East and West.


Suggest maybe you give THY a try during your next travels. You just might be impressed by your Mediterranean neighbors and their achievements.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 21306
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:47 am

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 27):

LOL.......Sarbel is much better !!!!

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 28):
I knew the reaction would be harsh.. stirthepot

Thats why you posted it !!! I did wonder !!!

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 29):
Secondly we have millions of things in common.

True but many differences also. I have cant imagine TK taking over OA and doing the LCA route  Big grin

I dont think things are as bad between Greeks and Turks as its made out to be. Its all politics. I have Turkish friends and Turkish Cypriot friends and have been to Turkey and Northern Cyprus on many occassions and have always been very welcome. The one thing I think is strongly in common between Greeks and Turks is the strong cultural identity and family values that is often lacking in Western Europe. All my flights with TK have been very good and all my flights with OA have been good also. If people dont like it they can fly another carrier and quit complaining.

Turkishwings you were lucky to meet Olympiakos!!! My home team .....
 
ATHYEG333
Topic Author
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:00 pm

RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:17 am

Well sometimes you have to look carefully in the topic title. It says Aegean expands, Olympic is Watching!
It is not a comparison between Olympic and Turkish. Yes Turkish is better in most of the sectors, not in
safety records though (I posted a link above). I clearly see the difference in the management!
And yes national pride has no room in the marketplace but we referring to flag carriers!

To TurkishWings

I don't like the "people like you" quote. I like Turks, I have been to Istanbul and Cesme.
I really liked these places and the people. But I don't like to be presented like someone
who do not love piece. And of course if you want send me a link to another thread to
discuss these issues. Because I don't see these cultural interaction it doesn't mean that
I hate the neighbors! Chill out my friend....
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:00 am

As was mentioned in several previous threads about Olympic and Alitalia, the merging would be, and I quote, "a Greek tragedy with Italian subtitles".

And As was mentioned in several previous threads about Olympic and Aegean, "Greeks don't let other Greeks fly Olympic". Family members in Thessaloniki and Channia were horrified that a colleague at my school was even thinking of flying Olympic - "Aegean is ALWAYS the better choice!!" was their wording.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 21306
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 34):
Family members in Thessaloniki

Thats Macedonians for you !!! No loyalty LOL......

On another note, OA are looking at fleet renewal coupled with a serious business plan. Lets hope they triumph of adversity. I had cousins on the JFK to ATH route last week and they had a great flight with great food and service. OA is not the bad airline that some LIKE to stir up. Also my sister flew LHR to ATH two weeks ago and hates flying. She said she actually enjoyed the flight and service etc.... Im going to have to do a trip myself and post a full detailed TR.

[Edited 2007-07-07 23:11:54]
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 35):
On another note, OA are looking at fleet renewal coupled with a serious business plan. Lets hope they triumph of adversity. I had cousins on the JFK to ATH route last week and they had a great flight with great food and service. OA is not the bad airline that some LIKE to stir up. Also my sister flew LHR to ATH two weeks ago and hates flying. She said she actually enjoyed the flight and service etc.... Im going to have to do a trip myself and post a full detailed TR.

Sorry I miss the good ole' days of the 747-200 and the JFK-ATH flight!  Smile

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4494
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!

Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:53 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 25):
There are so many similarities between Turkey and Greece -Ouzo and Raki,Mezze,prayer beads,the explosive character of many ,the Aegean sea,the influence of the clerics- so to say there are no common issues would mean you refute the truth...

Not to mention Baklava...

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 26):
Anyway it's a bid odd to hear that a Turkish airline will take over management from
Olympic!

Not really, nowadays, ethnic heritage is not as important in the marketplace as is what level of seriousness and experience the managing team has.

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 26):
Turkish has made progress but it is not in position to
run another airline...

No one is saying TK will run OA...all we're saying is TK has proven itself the last few years.

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 26):
What do u think would sound for Aeroflot to take over AA?

Actually, with how Aeroflot has turned around with its current management and with Arpey and Co. from AMR, that would make one HELL of a force to be reckoned with.

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 27):
I am Greek and I do not feel that
I have anything in common with them.

Same here...

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 29):
As long as people like you exist, in both sides, there will never be peace...

*sigh* I hate it when that happens...

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 29):
Secondly we have millions of things in common... You can't, nobody can, deny it... We have been living side by side for hundreds of years so there is a huge cultural interaction....

 checkmark  amen to that

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 30):
If TK were to run OA I am sure we would see more positive results than what we are currently seeing out of Athens with Olympic. The TK product is without a doubt far superior to the Olympic product. The addition of the A330-200 only re-affirms TK's commitment to growth and is maximizing its brand recognition to its fullest potential.

I would have to agree with you on this. Perhaps a downsize of ATH and more focus on OA's brand name outside of Greece/Eastern Europe?

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 30):
It is in between two airlines with much stronger networks, and in that instance Olympic has suffocated for years due to both a lack of credible management and un-willingness to distinguish its product from the crowd.

Sad but very true...

Quoting OA260 (Reply 32):
I dont think things are as bad between Greeks and Turks as its made out to be. Its all politics. I have Turkish friends and Turkish Cypriot friends and have been to Turkey and Northern Cyprus on many occassions and have always been very welcome.

Politics ALWASY gets in the way of a good time...I just spent a few days in Lanzarote with several Greek/Greek-Cypriot/Turk-Cypriot/Turk/Armenian friends, and we just had a ball spotting! *And my first time seeing Air Europa...

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 33):
And yes national pride has no room in the marketplace but we referring to flag carriers!

Amen to that...

Quoting OA260 (Reply 35):
Thats Macedonians for you !!! No loyalty LOL......

Now us from Trikala...thats a whole nother story... bigthumbsup 
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