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1337Delta764
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China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:43 am

It has been stated in the past that Delta is looking into acquring second-hand MD-90s for domestic expansion from SLC. In particular, it has been stated that Delta is interested in buying China Southern's MD-90 fleet. This would almost double the size of Delta's MD-90 fleet, and could free some 737-800s on longer routes to/from hubs other than SLC. Those rumors have seemed to die down, but I would like to know whether Delta is still interested in second-hand MD-90s. Does anyone have any info?
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okie73
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:22 am

heard Delta is still looking to get some MD-90s from China. 22 total, from China Southern and China Eastern.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
It has been stated in the past that Delta is looking into acquring second-hand MD-90s for domestic expansion from SLC. In particular, it has been stated that Delta is interested in buying China Southern's MD-90 fleet. This would almost double the size of Delta's MD-90 fleet, and could free some 737-800s on longer routes to/from hubs other than SLC.

The MD-90's were/are to be used for West Coast flying. This would come into play to take the 737-800 and 757-200 off of the SLC-West Coast flights. It was also talked about that the MD-90 would play a large role at LAX with the addition of 10 frames solely based at LAX. These frames would be used for service to the Mid-West(MCI/STL/IND/OKC), and Texas markets(DFW/SAT/AUS/ELP), as well as flying within the West Coast(SMF/SFO/LAS/PHX/PDX/SEA/YVR).

If the rumor is still true or not, I am not aware of.

-JD
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John
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:11 am

Aren't JAL and SAS looking to dump their MD-90s? Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there a couple of MD-90s sitting in the desert for a few years that were intended for the defunct Pro-Air and are now being scrapped? Why didn't Delta snatch those up?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:20 am

I know I have asked this before, but I wonder if Delta will install any form of IFE on used MD-90s. I believe that out of all the MD-90s in service, only Delta, JAL, and Saudia have installed IFE on them. Most of the routes will probably be too short to warrant the Transcon product with live TV and AVOD. However, basic IFE with drop-down LCDs similar to what Delta's current MD-90s and 737-800s feature would probably be a good idea for any used MD-90s.
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FLYGUY767
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
I know I have asked this before, but I wonder if Delta will install any form of IFE on used MD-90s.

The IFE mods on the MD-90 are not a problem to install, they will if Delta Air Lines takes them on be installed..

-JD
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mandala499
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:09 am

I think DL can start grabbing JT's MD90s from next year onwards... though they'd require a lot of work to be done on them before entering DL's fleet... *grin*
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positiverate
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
I wonder if Delta will install any form of IFE on used MD-90s



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
I believe that out of all the MD-90s in service, only Delta, JAL, and Saudia have installed IFE on them.

Seems that you've answered your own question.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:17 am

It's not likely that they would be completely segregated just to the western part of the US if DL were to obtain them. First, DL has segregated about as many MD90s to the SLC hub as it can due to the rotation of aircraft to/from the east. It is not going to be possible to continue to use them for flights just to/from SLC and LAX because the remaining 738s and 757s that fly to/from those western hubs rotate to/from flights from the east coast that are longer than what the MD90 is capable of doing.

The MD90 is quite fuel efficient (it has the same engine as on the A320) but it is not a strong performer. As other airlines get rid of the MD90, DL will be wise to pick them up.

The other part of the rumor is that DL will be swapping CRJs at a rate of 3 for every 1 MD90. If it happens, DL will very quickly reduce its CRJ fleet which will allow for replacement by CR7s and 9s.
 
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:30 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 8):
It is not going to be possible to continue to use them for flights just to/from SLC and LAX because the remaining 738s and 757s that fly to/from those western hubs rotate to/from flights from the east coast that are longer than what the MD90 is capable of doing.

It could do most of the SLC routes except for the Hawaii routes. BOS, one of the longest routes, is 1829NM according to Great Circle Mapper, the range of the MD-90 is 2085nm for the -30 or 2700mi for the -30ER.

[Edited 2007-07-10 04:32:00]
 
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:54 am

The MD-90s really stretch their legs going to CMH, CLE, & PIT from SLC, remember the MD88s (range of 2620nm ex. DL 1428 SLC-CVG stopping for fuel in DEN) would have to make fuel stops. I think that the hot/high conditions in SLC would be difficult to push it to BOS. If you watch the schedules, the MD-90s can rotate to ATL on Sundays through CMH. There would still be 757/737s in SLC and LAX but short hops ie) LAX-LAS could be eliminated on the 738s.

[Edited 2007-07-10 05:02:42]
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:13 pm

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 9):
It could do most of the SLC routes except for the Hawaii routes. BOS, one of the longest routes, is 1829NM according to Great Circle Mapper, the range of the MD-90 is 2085nm for the -30 or 2700mi for the -30ER

Indeed the following routes could easily be flown with the MD-90:

SLC-PIT
SLC-BUF
SLC-BHM
SLC-YYZ

LAX-STL
LAX-ORD
LAX-IAH
LAX-VER

JFK-COS
JFK-LRM
JFK-OKC
JFK-SAT

CVG-BDA
CVG-YHZ
CVG-MEX
CVG-GEG

-JD
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bongo
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:33 pm

Quoting Okie73 (Reply 1):
heard Delta is still looking to get some MD-90s from China. 22 total, from China Southern and China Eastern.

How old are this planes?
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wedgetail737
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:21 pm

Quoting John (Reply 3):
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there a couple of MD-90s sitting in the desert for a few years that were intended for the defunct Pro-Air and are now being scrapped?

I believe those MD-90's became available during the period that DAL was basically suffocating in their own blood and couldn't afford new aircraft.

Those MD-90's were pretty new. It was a shame to see them parted out.
 
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:35 pm

EVA Air has few as well, seen a couple pass through HNL on its way to the US mainland.

Looks like DL would take as many as available.
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a300
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:43 pm

The Chinese planes were destined for Iran Air Tours. Is that transaction is cancelled?
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:34 pm

Quoting John (Reply 3):
Aren't JAL and SAS looking to dump their MD-90s?

Eventually, JL will unload the MD-90s as the 738s are delivered but the first priority is retiring the older M81/M87s.

SAS no longer operates MD-90s. On paper, they may still belong to SAS but they are leased out.
 
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:07 pm

Both the 88's and the 90's are aweful planes, IMHO. They are more trouble than they are worth.

When I was at CLE, we had (have) a once-daily MD-90 from SLC and it was always, always, always, weight restricted making it almost impossible to get all the bags and even all the people on board. $5000 in DBC's were not unheard of for many days in a row.

I follow the MD90's pretty closely on a daily basis and they are always hindered by performance issues.

And, beyond that, they are a maintenance nightmare. Everyday the Mad Dog would roll in, and the pilot would come off and say, "well, we had to call Maintenance in ATL..." and there starts a 5 hour delay, or a cancellation, etc.

I'm sick of the Mad Dogs and so are a lot of people in DL.

We are all hoping that DL will soon get rid of them and transfer over wholly to B737-800's or pick up some more 757's.

Sorry to rant, but this is coming from someone who has to deal with them operationally, and I am not impressed nor every happy when the Mad Dog rolls into the gatehouse.
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:49 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 8):
The other part of the rumor is that DL will be swapping CRJs at a rate of 3 for every 1 MD90.

One can only hope that happens. Though for now, at least some of the CRJs are already being replaced by CR9s, which isn't too bad either.

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 17):
We are all hoping that DL will soon get rid of them and transfer over wholly to B737-800's or pick up some more 757's.

Because 136 738s and/or 757s are just soo easy to come by these days...
 
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:39 pm

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 7):
Seems that you've answered your own question.

No, I did not. Just because Delta's current MD-90 fleet has IFE doesn't mean that any used MD-90s will have it added. For example, Continental operates a small subfleet of 737-300s with IFE, while the rest of them don't have it. The IFE on Delta's MD-90s was factory installed, and it would cost Delta additional money to install it on any used MD-90 from China Southern or China Eastern, whose MD-90s do not feature IFE. This is why Delta is not investing in any form of IFE for the MD-88s. Either way, IFE would be a nice addition, even if it is not the Transcon product.
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PC12Fan
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:26 pm

Hmmm, demand for the MD-90 is picking up. Anyone think that Boeing closed the line prematurely?  Wink

At any rate, glad to see the MD-90 is getting a boost in the US. I always did like this aircraft.



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EA772LR
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:29 am

"I follow the MD90's pretty closely on a daily basis and they are always hindered by performance issues."

I don't doubt a word you're saying, afterall you work around these jets daily, but I always thought that the MD90's were fairly good performers i.e. high thrust to weight, modern feul efficient engines. Especially when compared to the MD81-88 series, the MD90's were practically overpowered. Wasn't there a model of the MD90, the MD90-50 if I recall, that had the option of two 28,000lb thrust engines?? That thing would have been a beast.
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:45 am

I remember reading Alaska is getting rid of some of these birds, IIRC.

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 17):
and I am not impressed nor every happy when the Mad Dog rolls into the gatehouse.

....or the mad dog house, so to speak.....

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 20):
Hmmm, demand for the MD-90 is picking up. Anyone think that Boeing closed the line prematurely?

If any assembly line was closed pre-maturely, it was the 757, not the MD-90 line.
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
It has been stated in the past that Delta is looking into acquring second-hand MD-90s

So how does the analogy go, 2nd-hand 717s are to FL what 2nd-hand MD-90s are to DLBig grin

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 20):
Anyone think that Boeing closed the line prematurely?

That's the first time I've read anyone asking that question with regards to the MD-90... even in jest. Big grin

While some could argue (which has been done on these boards) the premature closing case for the 717 (MD-95) and/or the 757; the MD-90's (& MD-80's) future(s) were clearly sealed after MDD's merger w/Boeing. Both of those models were direct competitors to the 737NG.
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:56 am

DAYflyer, AS never had any MD-90s. Only the MD-82/83s. When the -90 was first offered for sale to the airlines, AS did ordered 10 of them, but they were cancelled not too long afterwards, electing to standardize the fleet around the 737NG.
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Zone1
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 2):
It was also talked about that the MD-90 would play a large role at LAX with the addition of 10 frames solely based at LAX. These frames would be used for service to the Mid-West(MCI/STL/IND/OKC), and Texas markets(DFW/SAT/AUS/ELP), as well as flying within the West Coast(SMF/SFO/LAS/PHX/PDX/SEA/YVR).

It would be interesting to see if they put 10 frames solely on LAX routes. The more they build up LAX the more they will push into WN's territory.
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:14 am

It is interesting that most airlines are dumping the MD-90 but, that Delta seems to have the perfect set-up and missions for them.

Since DL already has an MD-90 fleet, and repairs and maintains them, adding some more frames would not require any new expertise. It seems a very cheap way to acquire some modern aircraft.

Have there been mods to the Delta MD-90s to update them / make the more reliable?
 
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 8):
The MD90 is quite fuel efficient (it has the same engine as on the A320) but it is not a strong performer. As other airlines get rid of the MD90, DL will be wise to pick them up.

The financial implications of picking up MD90s are really interesting: on one hand the MD90 is a rather effecient and capable airplane and well suited to DL's operation at its SLC hub.....but on the other hand, the residual value of the airplanes is virtually nil as a second hand market does not exist. One would guess that DL can pick the MD90s up at a very reasonable cost and, as mentioned, there is a rumor about 3 for 1 the CRJ for MD90 exchange deal....DL can accomplish two goals with one deal: rid itself of a good number unncessary CRJs and pick up some rather effecient mainline airplanes at an unbeatable price.

Its certainly one of the more creative "" aircraft exchange"" proposals discussed in recent years.

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 17):
I follow the MD90's pretty closely on a daily basis and they are always hindered by performance issues.

Interesting that you should say this......my understanding has been that DL was rather pleased with the performance of the MD90s and found them especially useful for the SLC-West Coast routes.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 20):
Hmmm, demand for the MD-90 is picking up. Anyone think that Boeing closed the line prematurely?

Funny.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 22):
If any assembly line was closed pre-maturely, it was the 757, not the MD-90 line.

And for the zillionth time, the 757 line was not closed prematurely (not that it has anything to do with this thread).....the line was closed for one reason: LACK OF ORDERS for the type. Its amazing that so many think that they are smarter than the men and women that run Boeing.....dont you think that Boeing carefully explored every option and alternative before making the major decision to close the 757 line? And, that (US) airlnes are now using the 752 on select transatlantic routes does not mean that followup orders for the 757 would have been placed.....all that it means is that US airlines are using their resources more effectively in an attempt to produce profits.
 
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:52 am

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 24):
When the -90 was first offered for sale to the airlines, AS did ordered 10 of them, but they were cancelled not too long afterwards, electing to standardize the fleet around the

The original AS order was for 25 frames, and cancelled for the 73NG (with some strong arming from Boeing)
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1337Delta764
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:56 am

I don't think the MD-90 line was closed prematurely. It was internal competition with Boeing's 737-800, and since the 737-800 had far more orders than the MD-90 at the time Boeing and McDonnell Douglas merged, it was wiser to keep the 737-800 and dump the MD-90. Delta initially had a large order for the MD-90 to replace their 727 fleet, but then cancelled the orders in favor of the 737-800, which is a more capable and versatile aircraft than the MD-90.
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 20):
Hmmm, demand for the MD-90 is picking up. Anyone think that Boeing closed the line prematurely?

At any rate, glad to see the MD-90 is getting a boost in the US. I always did like this aircraft.

I saw that MD90 parted out in IGM for years now...

I wonder what it would take DL to convert these Chinese 90's to US standards.
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PC12Fan
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:52 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 29):

By advised sir, that my post was a bit of a joke. I'm sure you are aware of the infamous "when will NWA retire their DC-9?" threads. There are many others questioning Boeing's decision to close the 757 line which are approaching the same category. It was my attempt to reflect on that joke.

At any rate, sure would have been cool to see some in TWA colors.
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737-990
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting D950 (Reply 28):
Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 24):
When the -90 was first offered for sale to the airlines, AS did ordered 10 of them, but they were cancelled not too long afterwards, electing to standardize the fleet around the

The original AS order was for 25 frames, and cancelled for the 73NG (with some strong arming from Boeing)

Actually the original order was for 20, later reduced to 10. Alaska cancelled th MD-90 in 94 or 95 (several years before it had any 73NGs on order) and actually swapped them out for 6 more MD-83s. By '96 it was pretty clear that Alaska favored more 737s thanks to greater cargo capacity and put an order for an additional 12 737-400s. That Alaska no longer favored the MD product was proven when it leased out factory new MD83s to TWA in 96. Strong arming from Boeing had nothing to do with it.
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qqflyboy
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:03 am

Hmm... the MD-90. As a former Reno Air flight attendant, I can tell you I LOVED THAT PLANE! With emphasis for a reason. It was incredibly quiet, even in the back. There were plenty of maintenance problems with the aircraft when we first got them (mostly FMS bugs) but after while, when those issues were worked out, it was just as reliable as anything else. We used to fly them from RNO to ATL and we didn't have any weight/balance issues and they were operating from a "hot and high" airport as well.

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There was a time after AA bought QQ that AA wanted DL's MD-90s. AA tried to work out a deal that would've included swapping some 738 slots, but Delta didn't bite. With a fleet of only five frames, it wasn't nearly cost effective for AA to operate those birds so off they went. Wonder why DL didn't pick those frames up then? Needless to say, a fleet of 16 or so aircraft isn't the most cost efficient method, and DL could significantly lower their operating cost if they could double their MD-90 fleet while gaining some operational flexibility. Sounds like a good plan.
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jetjeanes
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:09 am

Any chance they could pick up those Nw dc-9s to do the job of the Md-90... They would be great with ife.. not
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micstatic
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 17):
We are all hoping that DL will soon get rid of them and transfer over wholly to B737-800's or pick up some more 757's

Would certainly miss having to be jammed in a 3x3 as opposed to the 2x3. People seam to take that for granted.
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:15 am

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 33):
Needless to say, a fleet of 16 or so aircraft isn't the most cost efficient method, and DL could significantly lower their operating cost if they could double their MD-90 fleet while gaining some operational flexibility. Sounds like a good plan.

Absolutely, you know what's up.  checkmark   checkmark 
 
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 29):
I don't think the MD-90 line was closed prematurely. It was internal competition with Boeing's 737-800, and since the 737-800 had far more orders than the MD-90 at the time Boeing and McDonnell Douglas merged, it was wiser to keep the 737-800 and dump the MD-90. Delta initially had a large order for the MD-90 to replace their 727 fleet, but then cancelled the orders in favor of the 737-800, which is a more capable and versatile aircraft than the MD-90.

 checkmark  Many hate to see MDD aircraft leave airline fleets as they age, but the MD-90 will probably be the last MDD aircraft DL retires, well after the last MD-88 is parked in the desert for the salvagers and crushers. Chances are DL can get these frames for cheap since there really isn't much of a market for MD-90 aircraft. Look at the lease rates they got in BK for the MD-88s. Since dumping the 732s and 733s completely, DL is short on mainline equipment and many city pairs could use a boost from multiple CRJ service. That said I expect DL to start moving out of service with OO, OH and the other connection carriers more CRJ-100/200 frames since these aircraft are the ones people love to hate.
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EXAAUADL
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:24 am

I thought DL was suppose to retire their M90s?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 38):
I thought DL was suppose to retire their M90s?

The plan was to eliminate the 737 Classics, 767-200s, MD-11s, and MD-90s. Since the resale value of the MD-90 is very low, Delta has backtracked on the decision to retire the MD-90s. The MD-11, on the other hand, was popular with cargo airlines, and Delta got money out of selling their MD-11s. The 737-200s were Delta's least efficient narrowbody aircraft before they were retired, and the 767-200s were Delta's least efficient widebodies.
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dl757md
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:55 am

Word coming down from management to us is that we will NOT be acquiring any more MD-90s. It had been considered but the poor reliability of the planes we already have pretty much scuttled any ideas of getting more.

DL757Md

[Edited 2007-07-10 22:56:15]
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TrijetsRMissed
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:10 pm

It seems most of us who do not work for DL are hoping that a deal gets done. It does seem like a good business decision in many ways, I think it would be a nice additional as they are great aircraft to fly on.

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 22):
If any assembly line was closed pre-maturely, it was the 757, not the MD-90 line.

Although we hate to see them go, neither was closed prematurely by Boeing. Compared to the 757, the MD-90 had a lot more orders on the books when the decision was made to terminate production. With a new wing it would have given the 737NG a run for it's money.

Quoting Okie73 (Reply 1):
heard Delta is still looking to get some MD-90s from China. 22 total, from China Southern and China Eastern.



Quoting Dl757md (Reply 40):
Word coming down from management to us is that we will NOT be acquiring any more MD-90s. It had been considered but the poor reliability of the planes we already have pretty much scuttled any ideas of getting more.

So which one is true? Since DL has held onto them this long I don't think it's smart to pass up on getting additional cheap, relatively modern and fuel efficient aircraft because of previous MX issues. Some of these airframes are five years younger than the DL MD-90's. By the way, weren't those early problems ironed out years ago? I've been told by a DL captain that the dispatch reliability of the MD-90 is on par with the rest of the fleet..
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MastaHanky
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:43 pm

If DL does grab some more MD-90s, will they be equipped with that high-frequency whine you hear when the flight attendants use the PA to make announcements? Seems every DL MD-90 I've been on has that...
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:03 pm

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 40):
Word coming down from management to us is that we will NOT be acquiring any more MD-90s. It had been considered but the poor reliability of the planes we already have pretty much scuttled any ideas of getting more.

This doesn't surprise me at all to say the least. I think DL would be better off taking rolling options of 738s and some 737-700s for some additional narrow-bodied capacity. While some of the older 752s will no doubt go in the next few years, the narrow-bodied domestic aircraft that will go first in mass will be the MDD's (MD-88 & later MD-90s).

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 41):
Although we hate to see them go, neither was closed prematurely by Boeing. Compared to the 757, the MD-90 had a lot more orders on the books when the decision was made to terminate production. With a new wing it would have given the 737NG a run for it's money.

Reasons such as this are why MDD is now part of Boeing. But then how well did the 717 do? Was it terminated early as well?
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