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LAXintl
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ANA Faces 787 Etops Certification Delay

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:46 am

Quote:
ANA Faces ETOPS Certification Delay When First 787s Arrive

07/10/2007

All Nippon Airways will be forced to restrict flights of the Boeing 787 to regional and domestic routes for 12-18 months after taking delivery in late May 2008 because it is expected to take that long for cautious Japanese bureaucrats to approve extended operations (ETOPS) over the North Pacific.

As it did with the 777, Boeing will certify the 787 with full ETOPs authority, but the Japan Civil Aviation Bureau (JCAB) is expected to take at least a year doing its own certification, as it did with the 777. ANA now uses 777-300ERs as its primary fleet for transpacific operations and wants to phase out its remaining 747-400s from the Pacific routes because their fuel burn is too high.

ANA will take delivery of six 787-8s in 2008 and 2009 out of total order of 30. The first of its 20 787-3s will not arrive until 2010, and Executive VP Osamu Shinobe said it will be flown in a two-class, 300- to 330-seat configuration. Seating for the 787-8 is still being worked out, but ANA expects to operate the airplane in different configurations for international and domestic services.

Full story (subscription required)
http://www.aviationweek.com/publicat...ation+Delay+When+First+787s+Arrive
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777236ER
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RE: ANA Faces 787 Etops Certification Delay

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:47 am

Aha! I knew something was up!
787 Etops (by 777236ER Jul 9 2007 in Civil Aviation)
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DAYflyer
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RE: ANA Faces 787 Etops Certification Delay

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:50 am

This means nothing to North American operators of the type, who will gladly fill in the void that ANA cannot fill with direct flights to the US. Airlines like CO and AC will gladly fly to Japan until ANA can take advantage of their position in Japan. Thos will only certainly negatively impact ANA.
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keesje
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RE: ANA Faces 787 Etops Certification Delay

Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:54 am

My post of 2 hrs ago regarding this article (with nothing but quotes) was deleted because of "double post".

I have not been able to locate that other post yet..

Articles like this are very sensitive to "DOUBLE THREAD" (even "discussed in an other post") , "copyright", "LOW QUALITY" etc. lately.

Pls beware to study the rules (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/rules.main?confirm=no). There's always one that can be used to delete a thread.
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LAXintl
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RE: ANA Faces 787 Etops Certification Delay

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:21 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 2):
US. Airlines like CO and AC will gladly fly to Japan until ANA can take advantage of their position in Japan. Thos will only certainly negatively impact ANA.

 checkmark  Agreed.

ANA will be placed in a competitive disadvantage initially while the JCAB works out its certification for the type.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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N328KF
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RE: ANA Faces 787 Etops Certification Delay

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:24 am

Seems to me that the JCAB should join the FAA/EASA certification team and make things easier on everyone.
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zvezda
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RE: ANA Faces 787 Etops Certification Delay

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:29 am

NH can fly their first six or so 787s to Europe until they receive ETOPS certification from JCAB. Neither a big deal nor unexpected.
 
jimyvr
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RE: ANA Faces 787 Etops Certification Delay

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:33 am

Why is that a surprise when ANA didn't plan to fly the 787 across the Pacific until the end of 2009 or 2010?
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Dougloid
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RE: ANA Faces 787 Etops Certification Delay

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:41 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
Articles like this are very sensitive to "DOUBLE THREAD" (even "discussed in an other post") , "copyright", "LOW QUALITY" etc. lately.

Pls beware to study the rules (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/rules.main?confirm=no). There's always one that can be used to delete a thread.

I actually agree with Keesje here.

Will wonders never cease?



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keesje
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ANA 787 Introduction, Innovations, Concerns

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 8):
Pls beware to study the rules (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/rules.main?confirm=no). There's always one that can be used to delete a thread.

I actually agree with Keesje here.

Will wonders never cease?

Thnx Dougloid! I know I can always count on you

 Wink

I copied the content from my deleted thread, I notice the article is not accesible anymore.. Some interesting stuff apart from the certification issue.

ANA 787 Introduction, Innovations, Concerns

Posted by Keesje

ANA technical people detailed the 787 's introduction into service, certification, innovations & maintenance concerns.

Introduction & Certification

All Nippon Airways will be forced to restrict flights of the Boeing 787 to domestic and regional routes for 12-18 months after taking delivery in late May 2008 because it is expected to take that long for cautious Japanese bureaucrats to approve extended operations (ETOPS) over the North Pacific.


Configurations

ANA will take delivery of six 787-8s in 2008 and 2009 out of total order of 30. The first of its 20 787-3s will not arrive until 2010, and Executive VP Osamu Shinobe said it will be flown in a two-class, 300- to 330-seat configuration. Seating for the 787-8 is still being worked out, but ANA expects to operate the airplane in different configurations for international and domestic services.


Innovations

In its role as launch customer, the carrier brought at least two innovations to the new 250-seat jet. It wanted a washing system for cockpit windows because it takes time to dispatch ground service equipment so a technician can reach the windows. Boeing didn't want to put a washer in, said Hiroyuki Ito, VP-engineering and maintenance, "but we insisted on it."

ANA also is introducing bidets to commercial aviation. It turned to Toto, a Japanese plumbing fixtures manufacturer, to develop the device, which also works as a toilet. Boeing is now including bidets as an option in its 787 catalog.


Maintenance concerns

ANA 's concern is two-fold. Boeing is increasing cabin pressurization in the 787 to make it more comfortable for passengers. The effective altitude in the cabin will be reduced from the industry's norm of 8,000 ft. down to 6,000 ft. "We don 't know how this material will react " to high pressurization, Ito notes.

Foreign object damage is a second concern. Boeing's chief project engineer, Tom Cogan, says if you can't see damage when standing five feet from the structure, then there is none. But Ito says ANA wants to be assured that bumps on the outside do not cause damage on the inside."


Fleet Development

Yamamoto reiterated that ANA has a three-airplane fleet philosophy, using 737s, 787s and 777s. It has not "ruled out" the A380 or 747-8 as large airframes but will wait to judge passenger reaction to them in service, he said.


"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
ikramerica
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RE: ANA Faces 787 Etops Certification Delay

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
Seating for the 787-8 is still being worked out, but ANA expects to operate the airplane in different configurations for international and domestic services.

This confirms what everyone already suspected, since it was logical. The first planes, six in all, will be used domestically and regionally first. They will then be refitted for international travel when the 787-3s come. This will allow NH to learn the jet.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
The effective altitude in the cabin will be reduced from the industry's norm of 8,000 ft. down to 6,000 ft. "We don 't know how this material will react " to high pressurization, Ito notes.

uhh...

They don't "know" how it will react to 8000 ft, either. They don't know how it will react to 10000 ft. They don't know how it will react to 5000 ft, or 7000 ft. They don't know how it will react to loss of pressure.

They do have studies, and they will test it (under pressure, over pressure, no pressure). It's a very silly concern to voice publicly for an airline executive.
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