mptpa
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Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:03 am

ATW Online reports that NWA has publicly stated it is interested in the CSeries as a replacement for ...... DC9!!!!! They also intend to announce an engine supplier by Dec 2007.

Please read below....

Bombardier's CSeries gets boost from Northwest
Tuesday July 10, 2007

Northwest Airlines' interest in the proposed CSeries aircraft line has provided a much-needed boost for the program, Bombardier said.

At last month's Paris Air Show, NWA confirmed to ATWOnline that it seriously is considering the yet-to-be-launched type as a replacement for its aging DC-9s (ATWOnline, June 21). "I think it's nice that Northwest has gone public in their support for the program," Bombardier President-New Commercial Aircraft Program Gary Scott told this website. "They're encouraging us to go forward because they like the CSeries options for the future."

Full article here...
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:15 am

What are the CSeries options for the future? What is the Cseries aircraft and how is it different than its current line up?
 
Flighty
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:21 am

Of course NWA wants a strong C-series program.... it is in their interest. NWA here is saying, "come on everybody, order the Cseries! Then we can order the type without it being an orphan fleet!"
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:41 am

I'm certainly hoping that others are just waiting out to have the "other airline" order it as well. With NW's order, there will be no doubt anymore and I'm sure quite a few airliners would jump right on it. CSeries will be amazing aircraft - if built. Definitely the best looking "next generation" commercial plane. Yes, better looking than both 787 and A350XWB.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed  crossfingers   crossfingers  for a launch order.
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isitsafenow
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:27 am

...and when the last C series is retired to the desert, a DC 9 will take the crew back to Minnie...
Sorry....I just had to slide that in.
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deltadawg
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:37 am

It has always seemed to me that the C series would be a good replacement for the DC9 of NW but also the older MD80's of DL as well. Seems like it could have better economics than say a 737 into places like DSM where a CRJ-200/700 would be too small but a 737 or MD-88 may be too much a/c. All in all, if they do launch the C series it will put pressure on Boeing to launch the 73G replacement I think as well as force Airbus to move on the 320NG.
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migair54
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:01 am

great to see another plane in scene

C-series seems a great airplane, and this is a big impulse for the program,

another component for the equation, now for the next northwest dc-9 thread we have, airbus, boeing and bombardier.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 5):
It has always seemed to me that the C series would be a good replacement for the DC9 of NW but also the older MD80's of DL as well.

The largest C-Series is still considerably smaller than the MD-80, which makes 1:1 replacement unlikely unless capacity reduction is the name of the game. I doubt the C-Series would have significantly lower CASM than the larger 737-800 and A320.

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 5):
All in all, if they do launch the C series it will put pressure on Boeing to launch the 73G replacement I think as well as force Airbus to move on the 320NG.

Marginally, at best.

Only the C130 would have any consequence to the 737NG and A320, and it isn't expected to EIS any sooner than 2013. The majority of customers are going to stick with the entrenched competitors with an existing supplier and support base around the world, and will wait the extra 18-24 months for the 737/A320 replacements. The major suppliers are also waiting for Airbus and Boeing to launch those airplanes rather than join Bombardier with the C-series.
 
FCKC
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:26 am

Who are the other airlines having expressed an interest in the C serie ?
 
burnsie28
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 3):
Yes, better looking than both 787 and A350XWB.

Oh didn't know there was a difference... they look to the same. This is old news and there was a news article about it over a month ago now basically saying the same thing. The best part about the C series is that it would have the same layout as a DC-9, but with longer range and better economics. Thus allowing NW to still fly routes that the DC-9 does just even more effieciently.
 
af773atmsp
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:56 am

Is NW interested in both types of the C Series? Would there be a possible order for E-195? Finally NW might have found a replacement for the DC-9s!
It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
 
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deltadawg
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
The largest C-Series is still considerably smaller than the MD-80, which makes 1:1 replacement unlikely unless capacity reduction is the name of the game.

Isn't that the mode legacies are in?

If I recall the C130ER shows capability to do transcons in N. America, with 130 passengers it could be a very flexible a/c for some airlines such as DL & NW. I agree with you that it will be hard to overcome some customers loyal to A or B but there are some that will look for something in between the E-jets and 73G 's & 320's.

Also, the C130 shows 130 passengers in normal config. and 145 in high density. A typical 737 2-class is 126 seats. I believe they would compete more than most think, especially if they did a stretch to compete with say a 738 with a 150-165 seats.

[Edited 2007-07-10 23:20:29]
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azjubilee
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:43 am

Yea, they may be interested... just like they're likely interested in the EMB195. NWA is undoubtably crunching the numbers for all 100 seat a/c out there and will buy/lease the aircraft that can fly their missions at the best cost. They also clearly indicate they need the plane before Bombardier can procide it... a huge strike against the Cseries IMO. I predict NWA will show interest to get EMB to strike a sweet deal on the 195s and NWA will bow out of the Cseries program when they get what they want from EMB.



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BOSSAN
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:33 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 11):
Also, the C130 shows 130 passengers in normal config. and 145 in high density. A typical 737 2-class is 126 seats. I believe they would compete more than most think, especially if they did a stretch to compete with say a 738 with a 150-165 seats.

Bombardier shows the C130 as 119 seats in 2-class configuration; the 130 seat configuration is single-class.

The C130, at 125' 8", is already the stretched version of the design, comparable in length to a DC-9-40. With a five-abreast fuselage, a C130 stretched to the capacity of a 738 would be comparable in length to an MD-90 (152' 6"). Big stretches often require added structure and added weight to keep the fuselage stiff, which would negatively impact the economics of the airplane.

Another obstacle to replacing Northwest's DC-9 fleet would be the wingspan; at 112' 1", the C130's nearly 20 feet wider than the 93' 5" sported by the DC-9s, and close to the 117' 5" wingspan of the 737NGs. The Embraer 190/195 have wingspans much closer to the DC-9's (94' 3"). I wonder, if Northwest were to order a fleet of C130s, if they'd specify a shorter wingspan using blended winglets, to use the planes with the existing DC-9 gate spacing at their hubs.
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:22 am

C Series video and website from Bombardier.com:

http://www.bombardier.com/index.jsp?...0&lang=en&file=/en/3_0/3_8/3_8.jsp

Looks like a miniature 787 to me.....

[Edited 2007-07-11 21:26:06]
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planemaker
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RE: Northwest Shows Interest In CSeries

Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 5):
if they do launch the C series it will put pressure on Boeing to launch the 73G replacement

Not at all for many, many reasons - some of which have already been pointed out by others.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
I doubt the C-Series would have significantly lower CASM than the larger 737-800 and A320.

Forget about significant... BBD is hoping that the C110 will be 15% better than the 736 and the C130 might be 10% better than the 73G... so versus the 738 the C130 will have a higher CASM.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
Only the C130 would have any consequence to the 737NG and A320, and it isn't expected to EIS any sooner than 2013.

FYI, the 2013 EIS is for the C110 which BBD says would be produced first. The C130 might then possibly EIS in 2014... too close to the next gen narrowbodies from A and B.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 7):
The majority of customers are going to stick with the entrenched competitors with an existing supplier and support base around the world, and will wait the extra 18-24 months for the 737/A320 replacements.

I agree. BBD is in a no win situation... not only is their EIS dates too far, out as you point out, but their 2 plane family really falls into a capacity area that would suit only a few carriers that don't have any requirement for larger or smaller aircraft than the C110 & C130.

BBD's plan is to go with the C110 first in 2013 (hopefully) which pits them against the already entrenched E190 and E195 (with the commonality of the E170 and E175). While the C110 will have a slight CASM advantage over the E195, both the E190 and E195 are cheaper.

And as pointed out, the gap between a C130 EIS and the 737/A320 replacements EIS is much shorter than one anticipates. Furthermore, in addition to the supply chain advantages of the A & B incumbants, the C130 will have to compete with very attractively priced used 737/A320s.

All in all, a dismal scenario for the CSeries.
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