richierich
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E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:51 am

On February 18, an E170 belonging to Shuttle America was involved in a landing accident at CLE (thankfully, nobody seriously hurt), operating as flight number DL6448.

http://www.aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20070218-0

According to this website, the plane suffered "substantial" damage and it was initially listed as "written-off". If it was deemed too expensive to fix, then this would be the first hull loss of an Embraer E170/175/190/195 family aircraft. Does anybody know if N862RW has been repaired or if it will ever return to the skies?

Here is the bird in question, during happier times:


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Photo © Matt Coleman - Nashville Aviation Photographers


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Photo © Wayne Cowan

None shall pass!!!!
 
optionscle
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:03 am

Per www.opshots.com/forum/, the aircraft is in the north AirServices hangar with its nose section completely chopped off waiting for replacement. There is some discussion that the plane will not return to the Shuttle America fleet, but will instead be sold after it has been repaired.
 
chrisjake
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:04 am

 
USCGC130
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written O

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting OptionsCLE (Reply 1):
Per www.opshots.com/forum/, the aircraft is in the north AirServices hangar with its nose section completely chopped off waiting for replacement.

Reminds me of TWA Flt. 840, a 707 that was hijacked to Damascus in 1969. A bomb was detonated in the cockpit, and a new nose section was diverted from the production line and grafted on. It would've been fascinating to see photos of that operation, but I read somewhere (probably in _Howard Hughes' Airline_, Robert J. Serling's history of TWA) that the Syrian authorities prohibited photography.

Looking at the picture of the Embraer, I'm curious why it was deemed necessary to remove the engines. To create more working room, perhaps? Also, a surprising expanse of the passenger cabin has been gutted.
 
EMBQA
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:56 am

Quoting USCGC130 (Reply 3):
I'm curious why it was deemed necessary to remove the engines. To create more working room, perhaps?

Because the engines were nearly destroyed from all the stuff they sucked in. The pictures I've seen from people on-site was the engines full snow packed and I was told they dripped water for days as the snow melted.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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viasa
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:45 am

Puh... they have a lot of work to do...
 
N766UA
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting USCGC130 (Reply 3):
I'm curious why it was deemed necessary to remove the engines.



That's why!
This Website Censors Me
 
richierich
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting Chrisjake (Reply 2):
here she sits: http://www.opshots.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-5025


chris



Quoting OptionsCLE (Reply 1):
Per www.opshots.com/forum/, the aircraft is in the north AirServices hangar with its nose section completely chopped off waiting for replacement.

Wow! Thanks for the info and the pictures! That's quite a repair job - when you said the nose section chopped off, you were not kidding. It looks like it has been decapitated! Assuming this aircraft does go back to the skies, it is probably safe to say that it came very very close to being scrapped!
None shall pass!!!!
 
iFLYjets
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:16 am

What happened to the pax? did they use the slides to evacuate?
 
D L X
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 7):
Assuming this aircraft does go back to the skies, it is probably safe to say that it came very very close to being scrapped!

If it weren't so new, I'm sure it would have been. Kinda like how any little fender bender can "total" a 10 year old car, but a full t-bone on a 3 month old car will get repaired, maybe?
 
N231YE
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting Richierich (Thread starter):
According to this website, the plane suffered "substantial" damage and it was initially listed as "written-off". If it was deemed too expensive to fix, then this would be the first hull loss of an Embraer E170/175/190/195 family aircraft. Does anybody know if N862RW has been repaired or if it will ever return to the skies?

As stated, the aircraft is undergoing repairs. I have had the chance to check out the aircraft where it currently resides in the Air Services hangar at the Northeast corner of the field.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 4):
Because the engines were nearly destroyed from all the stuff they sucked in. The pictures I've seen from people on-site was the engines full snow packed and I was told they dripped water for days as the snow melted.

However, from talking with the mechanic when I recently made a visit, he stated the engines didn't suffer that much/ if any damage, despite the amount of snow that was "crammed" into the engine while it was running. They are/were currently in Columbus, OH undergoing an inspection.
 
richierich
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:10 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 9):
If it weren't so new, I'm sure it would have been. Kinda like how any little fender bender can "total" a 10 year old car, but a full t-bone on a 3 month old car will get repaired, maybe?

I'm sure you are correct but it does seem like a pretty thorough rebuild of this aircraft nonetheless. The cockpit will be completely new, and that's where all the very expensive bits generally reside. I'm sure some of the equipment was salvageable and will be reused, if it hasn't already.

Quoting N231YE (Reply 10):
However, from talking with the mechanic when I recently made a visit, he stated the engines didn't suffer that much/ if any damage, despite the amount of snow that was "crammed" into the engine while it was running. They are/were currently in Columbus, OH undergoing an inspection

Those must be some tough engines then! Removing engines is pretty routine, as I understand it, and new engines can be supplied (assuming DL/Shuttle America has a couple of spares lying around) while these two are being repaired. I was more impressed with the level of gutting performed on the fuselage. Amazing.
None shall pass!!!!
 
rampkontroler
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 10):
However, from talking with the mechanic when I recently made a visit, he stated the engines didn't suffer that much/ if any damage, despite the amount of snow that was "crammed" into the engine while it was running. They are/were currently in Columbus, OH undergoing an inspection

I heard the same thing from the mechanics. What I didn't ask was, what are they doing with the nose?

http://www.opshots.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-5038
 
EMBQA
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting Rampkontroler (Reply 12):
What I didn't ask was, what are they doing with the nose?

The old nose I was told might become a flight simulator.... the new nose is being shipped up from Brazil. I'm guessing the folks doing the repairs in CLE are the same ones that cut the nose off the Continental Express EMB-145 a few years back when the crew landed so hard it drove the nose gear up into the cockpit...?
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
rampkontroler
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:58 am

Hmmm....I'm pretty sure COEX repaired the -145 that ran off of 06L. The -170 is being rebuilt by Air Services, who are now an Embraer repair shop. You see all kinds of ERJ's there undergoing maintenance, but I was told this was their first -170.
 
cricket
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:42 pm

Wow, just shows that planes don't always 'die', I wonder if this repair was deemed economic only because the airframe itself is relatively new. Do you suppose such damage hits the premiums?
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
masseybrown
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting Rampkontroler (Reply 14):
Hmmm....I'm pretty sure COEX repaired the -145 that ran off of 06L. The -170 is being rebuilt by Air Services, who are now an Embraer repair shop. You see all kinds of ERJ's there undergoing maintenance, but I was told this was their first -170.

Are the ExpressJet and Air Services maint. shops separate operations? I've often seen ExpressJet planes parked at Air Services.
 
rampkontroler
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 13):
Continental Express EMB-145 a few years back when the crew landed so hard it drove the nose gear up into the cockpit...?

I just re-read this, and are you talking about the runway excursion that occured in a snowstorm back in Jan. 03 with N16571? Or something else?
 
EMB195
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:50 am

Quoting Chrisjake (Reply 2):

That was the most interesting picture of an EMB170 i've seen so far. Its sad! As finances goes it sucks!! But on the mechanical side its pretty cool seeying it opened up like that. Anyways, thanks for the picture!
 
N231YE
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:54 am

Quoting Rampkontroler (Reply 17):
I just re-read this, and are you talking about the runway excursion that occurred in a snowstorm back in Jan. 03 with N16571? Or something else?

It was N16571, but it wasn't a runway incursion:

Quote:
An ILS runway 6L approach was performed. After touchdown, the flight crew was unable to stop the airplane on the runway. The airplane continued beyond the departure end, on extended runway centerline, and struck the ILS runway 6L localizer antenna. It came to rest with the nose about 600 feet beyond the departure end of the runway. The nose landing gear had collapsed rearward and deformed the forward pressure bulkhead.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20030106-0



[Edited 2007-07-12 21:59:36]
 
rampkontroler
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:26 am

Yeah, that's the one...I remember it well as I was working that day. I guess I just couldn't remember the part about the nosewheel, but that makes sense. And to clarify, I said EXCURSION, not incursion.

"Runway Excursion

The term runway excursion sounds like a family jaunt in the airplane, out to enjoy the scenic stripes on the tarmac and the Jet-A-scented breezes wafting down the runway. It actually refers to the event of an airplane leaving the runway by a method other than taking off or trundling down the appropriate taxiway. That is, over the side or the end."
 
N231YE
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:50 am

Quoting Rampkontroler (Reply 20):
And to clarify, I said EXCURSION, not incursion.

Oops, my apologies, my bad:

Quoting Rampkontroler (Reply 17):
runway excursion



Quoting N231YE (Reply 19):
runway incursion
 
Viscount724
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:57 am

Quoting USCGC130 (Reply 3):
Reminds me of TWA Flt. 840, a 707 that was hijacked to Damascus in 1969. A bomb was detonated in the cockpit, and a new nose section was diverted from the production line and grafted on.

It was this aircraft:


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Photo © Kjell Nilsson
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Photo © Frank J. Mirande



NW has (or had, not sure if it's still in service) a DC-9-30 that was rebuilt from the wrecks of two DC-9s. While with Ozark (originally with Northeast in 1967) it collided with a snowplow landing at FSD in December 1983 and a wing separated. It was rebuilt using the wing from an AC DC-9-30 that made an emergency landing at CVG in June 1983 (en route from DFW to YYZ) with a cabin fire that started in a rear lavatory. 23 of the 46 passengers/crew died before they could evacuate. Republic acquired the DC-9 from Ozark in 1985 a year before the merger with NW. This is the aircraft in question:


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Photo © Rafal Szczypek - DC Aviation Photography

 
DLOnur
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:11 am

Quoting IFLYjets (Reply 8):
What happened to the pax? did they use the slides to evacuate?

I was working the gates that day for DL. The snow squall started up so quick and was so heavy a number of aircraft (after the Shuttle America plane went off the run way) diverted to DTW and CMH.

The pax did use slides to evacuate and were bused over to the fire department building. An ambulance came and took a few people just to get checked on, but no one was really injured in that incident.

All the bags were brought over and given back to the paxs--except for the one sorry man who's bag was jammed up into the floorboards by the front main gear...his was the only bag we couldn't recover until they were able to release the pressure on it from the front gearing.

Weird day indeed at CLE....fifteen minutes before the plane slid off, the weather was mildly warm and sunny....CLE weather is weird indeed--damn lakes!
What you believe is what you see.
 
rampkontroler
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 23):
The pax did use slides to evacuate and were bused over to the fire department building.

I was there that day too, and it was a crazy weather day indeed! One thing though...I don't recall them using the slides at all. They kept the passengers on board for quite a while, since there was no fire or immediate need to evacuate. They stayed on until the fire dept.arrived and I thought they were assisted out of the aircraft without blowing any slides.  Confused

Here's three different views taken after the incident, each with the pax still on board, and I don't see any slides (?):


http://www.opshots.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-2712

http://www.opshots.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-2713

http://www.opshots.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-2719
 
DLOnur
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:50 am

I think you are right and I am wrong. Those few days are a bit hazy for me because the next night I flipped my Toyota Land Cruiser over the median heading westbound on I-480 onto the eastbound side of 480 at the top of the hill at the Brookpark Rd. exit....

Anyway, the paxs were all ok, from my recollection, though I did remember hearing that the PIC was pretty shook up...

Thanks for the clarification.
What you believe is what you see.
 
rampkontroler
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RE: E170 Involved In Feb. CLE Incident - Written Off?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:03 am

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 25):
think you are right and I am wrong. Those few days are a bit hazy for me because the next night I flipped my Toyota Land Cruiser over the median heading westbound on I-480 onto the eastbound side of 480 at the top of the hill at the Brookpark Rd. exit....

Whoa! Glad you are okay...I know just the area you are talking about. The roads that week were just atrocious, and I am definately NOT looking forward to it again this year!


As for aircraft that have been substantially rebuilt....

Reeve Aleutian had an L-188 that was made up of parts from different airframes, as was one of Alaska's 737-200's that was recently retired. I don't know their exact histories, but I did just read about them recently. There are bound to be quite a few examples out there.

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