Sabena332
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LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:56 am

Lufthansa asked in a recent online survey what passengers think about a "Sleeper-Class" for Economy Class passengers on long overnight flights such as Frankfurt-Singapore or Frankfurt-Johannesburg:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

To increase the travel comfort on intercontinental night flights, Lufthansa is thinking about a separate sleeping area within Economy Class. There, you would have the possibility to sleep in beds with an angle of 180° (Full Flat). This option could be booked instead of a seat.

In the future, when booking a night flight with Lufthansa from Johannesburg to Frankfurt, would you generally be interested in booking into the sleeping area instead of a seat in Economy Class?


http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x158/jumpseatflyer/shithansacattlesleeper.jpg
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Are they for real?

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
ahlfors
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LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:59 am

I could see it selling for overnight flights, but what about the return flight during daylight hours?
 
Cory6188
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LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:59 am

Even with the pax stacked up like that, I can't imagine that the cabin would hold nearly as many people as regular Y seats would.....but I could be wrong...
 
Sabena332
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LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting Ahlfors (Reply 1):
but what about the return flight during daylight hours?

FRA-SIN and FRA-JNB are night flights in both directions.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
MCOflyer
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LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting Ahlfors (Reply 1):
I could see it selling for overnight flights, but what about the return flight during daylight hours?

Could LH convert those to seats?

Hunter
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helvknight
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LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:02 am

I could see some safety issues there, they'd have to be strapped in pretty tight during ground movements and landing and takeoff.

Quoting Ahlfors (Reply 1):
but what about the return flight during daylight hours?

On a lot of the Europe - JNB and Europe - SE Asia flights it's a night flight both ways.
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member - Groucho Marx
 
AlanUK
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LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:03 am

Wow, that would be funny. Not sure about the practicalities of it, or the emergency procedures with this layout, but it kind of reminds of the Fifth Element movie!!!

Go Lufty!
 
johnnybgoode
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LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:04 am

this is a late april's fools joke, right?
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
EBGflyer
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LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:05 am

Interesting approach, but it seems like there would be a few challenges to overcome first. One important would be the safety factor - especially in a situation where the plane has to be evacuated within the 90 sec limit.
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CALMSP
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LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:06 am

i dont see this happening on US carriers...........to afraid of liability once little granny slips and falls trying to climb up two bunk beds  Smile
 
Someone83
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LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:09 am

Reminds my of a submarine.....
 
HT
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LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 4):
Could LH convert those to seats?

Although the image does not stipulate a potential conversion ot seats, I think also in future pax will need to sit upright during T/O and landing (it is the case today even when flying in First or Business). Lying flat with only one seat belt should be too dangerous in case of aborted take-off, as I doubt that that single restraining device would be sufficient to hold the pax in place.

Another aspect is that the image does not show any devices to stow hand luggage.

But this details might have been left out intentionally ...

Overall, I would be in favour of such a feature, even if this would mean a surcharge to a (seat) Eco ticket, as I envision that the overall cost would still be lower than a Business Class ticket (currently I am flying longhaul in Business mainly due to the fact that Eco-seats are way too cramped for me).
-HT
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LH498
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class

Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 6):
but it kind of reminds of the Fifth Element movie!!!

 yes 

Could be a money-maker: Higher fare and less costs(?):Sleeping passengers don't need IFE, won't eat or drink so much...
 wink 
 
Sabena332
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:31 am

Quoting LH498 (Reply 12):
Sleeping passengers don't need IFE, won't eat or drink so much...

They should open up a bar next to this "Sleeping-Class", I would go there first to get utterly wasted so that I can sleep the whole 12 hours down to SINBig grin

P.
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
CALMSP
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 13):

I second that  Smile
 
flyboy_se
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:58 am

alltho its only a graphic , but it still looks like a flight for prisoners.i wouldent want to travel like that.It looks like some cheapo cabin.also the beds looks too cramped and cheap.maybe they should add more space.
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B4REAL
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:03 am

I really don't see this as too far of a stretch - safety included. Consider this picture link above - there are only 5 clearly visible rows on the outside, and unclearly (presumably) four floor (x3 going up) positions in regards to direction of flight on the centerline. So, that makes about 42 sleeper positions in this space. So, take a large aircraft and carve out that footprint for this configuration then charge the premium. Not a bad idea.....

Also - who is to say this is on the main deck! Doesn't the A340 for LH have a downstairs!
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abrelosojos
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Thread starter):
To increase the travel comfort on intercontinental night flights

= more like what Flyboy says below ... totally looks like a prison camp on a ship ... tho, more power to LH for thinking out of the box.

Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 15):
alltho its only a graphic , but it still looks like a flight for prisoners

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
sandrozrh
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:09 am

Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 15):
alltho its only a graphic , but it still looks like a flight for prisoners.i wouldent want to travel like that

Exactly what i thought, looking at this pic reminded me of my days at the army Big grin

Also, what about meal service? How would you want to eat in these beds? I know you could, but it would be quite a mess, especially during turbulences  rotfl 
 
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Stitch
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:29 am

Maybe LH has found a use for the "Sky Suites" on their 748Is? Instead of private cabins, it could be dual bunks.
 
roseflyer
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 16):
Also - who is to say this is on the main deck! Doesn't the A340 for LH have a downstairs!

This is an idea being thrown out for the 747-800s that LH will be recieving. The area between door 3 and door 4 has some of the most valuable real estate in the sky above it. It is tall enough to walk in. For an extra fee, an economy passenger can have a bunk in addition to their seat. The idea has been floated with business class seats and then full flat beds in a separate area which would make for the best first class experience ever. Its not going to replace seats on the cabin floor. Also people will not be able to use these bunks during takeoff or landing because there are not adequate exits. Its an option. Let's see if it ever comes true. Right now it seems like all the 748 will have is a large crew bunk and an overhead galley between doors 4 and 5.
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ETStar
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 10):
Reminds my of a submarine.....

... or a sleeping area of a slave ship
 
elmothehobo
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:14 am

Kudos to Lufthansa for thinking outside of the box. However, this may be more PR than anything.

All those beds and the structure to hold them up are going to weigh a whole lot. Unless they are charging a lot of extra change to make up for the added weight, this idea certainly won't make it past the drawing board. Add in safety and impact certification, the idea seems like a real pipe dream.
 
jc2354
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:35 am

I don't think I would like it. I'd like to see a separate, premium economy cabin with increased pitch and lie flat seats. I'd rather step over 2 sleeping people, than climb up/down a bunk.
If not now, then when?
 
dtwclipper
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 7):
this is a late april's fools joke, right?



Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 15):
but it still looks like a flight for prisoners

I'm sorry, and I don't want to offend, but to my it looks like a flying KZ (Konzentrationslager)
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HanginOut
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:49 am

I think the concept could work. If you can get 6-9 beds in a row (3 stacked on top of each other in) then you would have close to or the same number of economy beds as economy seats. If there is a difference in seat numbers, you could easily make up for it by charging more for an economy bed.  scratchchin 
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JAAlbert
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:51 am

All that's missing are the balls and chains around the passenger's feet!
 
EI747SYDNEY
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:54 am

I would love it

Rob
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Sabena332
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:19 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 24):
but to my it looks like a flying KZ (Konzentrationslager)

Whoa!

This comment screems for replies which I can not deliver because of my mod status.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:22 am

Well they have an awful lot of floor space on A380s ... very interesting concept. I like it. QF should try this on for the Kangaroo Route and trans-Pacific flights!
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LHboyatDTW
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:27 am

Honestly, LH's Y product isn't the most comfortable, and that looks rather cramped in my opinion and not really a place where one can get sleep. If people want to sleep, then shell out the extra cash for a business class seat.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I'm anxious to know how the PTV integration is coming along. I remember hearing around two (?) weeks ago of one of the A346s going into Lufthansa Technik for the treatment. Any word on recent updates would be greatly appreciated by me. I'm anxiously awaiting news (better yet photos) for this.
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Simes
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:35 am

Nice idea, but they look a bit too cramped to join the mile high club in  Silly
 
dtwclipper
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 28):
This comment screems for replies which I can not deliver because of my mod status.

I know, it was a little harsh, but to be honest it was my first impression of the artists rendering.


But, that's why I added:

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 24):
I'm sorry, and I don't want to offend,
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
Wsp
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:38 am

Quoting ETStar (Reply 21):
... or a sleeping area of a slave ship

Really really cramped. Unlike the upright-sleeping area of this slave ship:  Yeah sure

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Florian Kondziela

 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:40 am

Quoting Simes (Reply 31):
Nice idea, but they look a bit too cramped to join the mile high club in

I'm sure in time they'll come up with doubles ...  rotfl 

As for them being too cramped, backpackers manage to get some in hostels, and it is a step up from lavs.  covereyes 
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klkla
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
Maybe LH has found a use for the "Sky Suites" on their 748Is? Instead of private cabins, it could be dual bunks.

That was my first thought, too, but I thought Boeing has said there wasn't much interest in the concept. But then again, Lufthansa is the only airline to sign up for the passenger version of the 747-8 so I guess they could probably get it configured however they wanted.
 
lmml 14/32
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:48 am

Looks more like a scene from the movie Coma. Will that be "your" seat or is that a seperate area you will go to to sleep?
 
HPAEAA
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:52 am

I bet capacity is roughly equal... I don't know what size A/C that is, but they stack 3 up... I guess it all depends on the dimensions.. I'd love to do it! personally, I lay in my bed all the time and work... heck, I'm sitting here with my laptop now!

On a side note... while this does bring up liability issues, I thought the reason we had to have our seat backs upright now for take off and landing is that it impedes on the row behind you which could block the other passengers from evacuating if there were an incident... To the FAs out there and Pilots, can you confirm or deny?
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flyf15
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 37):
On a side note... while this does bring up liability issues, I thought the reason we had to have our seat backs upright now for take off and landing is that it impedes on the row behind you which could block the other passengers from evacuating if there were an incident... To the FAs out there and Pilots, can you confirm or deny?

Thats correct. Seatbacks, traytables, and things completely underneath the seat in front of you. Its all done in order to not interfere with an evacuation.

Although, I'm a pilot. FAs would know more than I do.
 
Wsp
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:05 am

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 30):
Honestly, LH's Y product isn't the most comfortable, and that looks rather cramped in my opinion and not really a place where one can get sleep. If people want to sleep, then shell out the extra cash for a business class seat.

There is no law that requires economy seats to be uncomfortable and only business class seats to allow for some decent sleep.

In my experience on the flights that this concept supposedly addresses the overwhelming majority of people in economy class use the time to sleep. This concept looks like a dramatic improvement in comfort for these passengers. One could even argue that it allows for more movement of the feet and could prevent some DVT deaths.
 
ilikeflight
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class

Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:13 am

I don't know how well this would fly with the pax (no pun intended) I personally don't see it happening
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vtnyc
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Thread starter):
Are they for real?

mebbe they got the idea from Indian Railways
Big version: Width: 360 Height: 480 File size: 23kb


Quoting Wsp (Reply 33):
Unlike the upright-sleeping area of this slave ship

Ditto esp. You echoed my sentiments !!!
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Devilfish
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:47 am

One question. Would there be "snoring and non-snoring" sections?

It looks like somebody suddenly sitting up would hit his head above.
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RoyalAtlantis
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:22 pm

wow...that looks horrific. it's like a youth hostile in the sky...less people snore when they're seated upright in coach - can you imagine this? being trapped in a horizonal space, stacked below a large statured person snoring to beat the band?

it's awful.
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:35 pm

Quoting Simes (Reply 31):
Nice idea, but they look a bit too cramped to join the mile high club in

You need to think more creatively.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 28):
This comment screems for replies which I can not deliver because of my mod status.

Agreeed,the idea of actually sleeping horizontally(real deep sleep) on a long flight strikes me as the exact opposite of torture. I've done a number of 12-14 hour flights and this would have been a great alternative to larger quantities of alcohol when it comes to sleep. I'm sure that those who prefer the vertical torture will be accomodated as well if LH goes through with this.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 42):
One question. Would there be "snoring and non-snoring" sections?

It is unfortunately frowned upon to kill the snorers. Ipod/Zune, etc. is your best defense.
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Motorhussy
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class

Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:53 pm

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 44):
Ipod/Zune, etc. is your best defense.

Or the sound of a T7's engines to drown them out. Oh that's right, LH only have A330's and A340's in this class.

But seriously, you need to have passengers in an upright sitting position for take-off and landing. This will space prohibitive and therefore uneconomic in economy class. Plus, where do the common people eat?

Also, while I love the idea, I do like to have my back to a wall (especially) in a skinny bunk, but that wouldn't be hard to add in the final mix (probably was excluded in order to see through the cabin for the research purposes this picture was obviously rendered for).

Overall, reminiscent of boot-camp barracks in movies like full metal jacket. Very German.

Regards
MH
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khelmDTW
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:09 pm

I just don't see it working. What about the crash position? The seats help save your life, and I don't see a bed like that being able to do it. (And who would want to lay down the entire flight?)

Also, how would you eat? Laying down, or on the floor. One is not safe, the other is not sanitary.

However this could work if they all had a seat and a bed. But then there would be outrageous ticket prices, or no one flying at all.

Better off sticking with the seats.
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration"
 
DL777LAX
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:32 pm

Besides the obvious concern with structural integrity of the beds, and inconvience of snoring passangers (don't the lif-flat business/first class allready have that problem?) as well as the outright crampedness of the configuration and safety issues for an evacuation(takes a few secs to climb out of a bunk), from a technological standpoint, where do you fit the oxygen masks on those beds? That seems like it would be a hindarance, to have to connect every seat to the system, vs three, using the ducting? Cam amyone shed some light on this issue?
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khelmDTW
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:57 pm

Quoting Dl777lax (Reply 47):
where do you fit the oxygen masks on those beds? That seems like it would be a hindarance, to have to connect every seat to the system, vs three, using the ducting?

Good points, but I do believe that each oxygen mask has its own apparatus that chemically provides oxygen. As for the evacuation question, good point.
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration"
 
sq452
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RE: LH Is Thinking Of A Sleeping Area In Eco Class (Pic)

Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:09 pm

That picture is just absolutely crazy and nuts!

reminds me of the sleeper buses in China...not being long enough for tall westerners like me  Smile
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