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STT757
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FAA's Airspace Redesign For NY, NJ, PHL

Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:59 am

I felt that the FAA's proposed airspace redesign warranted it's own thread, basically the FAA is in the final stages period of their airspace redesign for the NY, NJ, PHL area which would more than anything else dramatically reduce delays at EWR, JFK, LGA and PHL which are four of the most delayed airports in the Country.

An example of how it would work is on page 28 of this presentation, it shows how currently there is only one departure heading off of EWR's runway 4R. The constraint of a single heading necessitates the increased separation of successively departing aircraft and impairs the ability of the tower controllers to efficiently move departures from the airport. The FAA's Integrated airspace alternative provides three departure headings from EWR's 4R thus increasing the departure rate.

There are similar changes for arrivals, it details the alternatives for EWR, JFK, LGA and PHL.

It's a great resource to understand the current congestion causes, and the possible mitigation the FAA's Airspace will provide these chronically delayed airports.

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...n/media/MP070049_NY_Mitigation.pdf

Here's an informative video:

http://videoontheweb.faa.gov/aviatio...Airspace%20Redesign-3-23-07-HS.asx

Other documents:

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...ance/eastern_reg/nynjphl_redesign/
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AirTranTUS
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RE: FAA's Airspace Redesign For NY, NJ, PHL

Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:34 pm

I wonder if, after these improvements, airlines will add more flights to the area because ATC has improved? Or will the FAA finally step in and say no more, make do with what you have.
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747fan
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RE: FAA's Airspace Redesign For NY, NJ, PHL

Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:47 pm

A start for reducing congestion at these airports is by slot-controlling all of them so that there are never more arrivals/departures per hour than the airport can handle in IFR conditions. For example, if LGA can handle 40 arrivals per hour in good weather and 35 in IFR conditions, only allow 35 total arrival slots per hour at there. Also charge higher landing fees for planes with less than 70 seats. That's my  twocents 
An airspace redesign is overdue as the current design has probably been in place since the '70s or '80s; this could help increase the arrival/departure rates at the airports. For example, the routings in and out of EWR and TEB need to be dealt with if possible so 11/29 could be used at EWR for arrivals during peak times (late afternoon and evening).
 
Cory6188
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RE: FAA's Airspace Redesign For NY, NJ, PHL

Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:55 pm

I live in a town in the Pascack Valley, one of the main areas of Bergen County where flyover air traffic would be significantly increased. There is a TON of vocal, local opposition to the FAA's possible plans to change the air traffic patterns over the region. I can understand where people are coming from in complaining about the increased noise, but some of the NIMBY complaints are just ridiculous. Some of the local mayors have been saying that we'll see black soot on our cars and houses from jet fuel, that we will be "in greater danger" (wtf does that mean?) due to increased air traffic, etc.

I have mixed feelings - I can't say that I would welcome additional noise from air traffic, but I do understand that EWR needs some definite mitigation of its constant delays...
 
vega
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RE: FAA's Airspace Redesign For NY, NJ, PHL

Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:08 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 3):
I live in a town in the Pascack Valley, one of the main areas of Bergen County where flyover air traffic would be significantly increased. There is a TON of vocal, local opposition to the FAA's possible plans to change the air traffic patterns over the region.

Same for the PHL region - they even have a very formal, very vocal and sometimes very influential NIMBY group that doesn't hesitate to tell the FAA it's Plan won't work - see here: http://www.phl-caw.org/
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
LAXspotter
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RE: FAA's Airspace Redesign For NY, NJ, PHL

Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:14 pm

damn, these two cases of NIMBY's are really pissing me off. Are people so stupid to believe in such exaggerations? I was watching a news report on Santa Monica and how the "infiltration" of biz jets is really hurting Santa Monica, half of the things were blown out of proportion. When will this new Redesign go into effect?
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
rampart
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RE: FAA's Airspace Redesign For NY, NJ, PHL

Fri Jul 13, 2007 4:39 pm

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 5):
Are people so stupid to believe in such exaggerations?

Yes.

In an analogous scene, the whole environmental preservation movement is populated by them. Takes half my time as an environmentalist correcting the stupidity of the poorly briefed and naive.

And myopic, too. But, that's not suprising. Few people have long term interests in front of short term gains.

-Rampart
 
Cory6188
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RE: FAA's Airspace Redesign For NY, NJ, PHL

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:07 pm

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 5):
Are people so stupid to believe in such exaggerations?

I'd definitely say that the claims of "pollution" on one's house is definitely an exaggeration, as is the comment on "increased danger", but I can wholeheartedly understand the concern about additional airplane noise. Would you want more airplanes flying over your house? Okay, well maybe given that you're an a.nutter, you would, but most normal people would disagree.  Wink
 
PHLBOS
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RE: FAA's Airspace Redesign For NY, NJ, PHL

Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:33 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 4):
Same for the PHL region - they even have a very formal, very vocal and sometimes very influential NIMBY group that doesn't hesitate to tell the FAA it's Plan won't work - see here: http://www.phl-caw.org/

Actually, with regards to the airspace redesign; the local/NIMBY opposition has gone beyond the usual Tinicum Township bickering. Opposition (I'm not saying that I agree with them) has now swelled to other Delaware County towns (which normally don't have issues w/PHL) that would have planes flying over should the new flight paths be adopted. In addition, new NIMBY groups in Delaware (the state) and South Jersey have also been attacking the FAA on this issue.

The last FAA airspace public meeting that took place a couple of months ago, not only had a standing-room-only crowd and many were turned away because of the very large turn-out. Newly-elected U.S. Rep. Joe Sestak (D-PA) is also trying to score w/voters on this issue. IIRC, he's trying to halt the whole (or at least the PHL-portion) of the project halted.
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