ghillier
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How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:45 pm

I know they switched to all AA Eagle flights this spring and I see on aa.com that they are offering reduced mileage awards for flights from Love.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:17 am

Not sure how they are doing at DAL, although I would guess probably not so well. I think I read somewhere on here that flights to STL and SAT were being cut.
 
AA737-823
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:07 am

Go figure.
So, can I pose another question on this same thread... if AA pulls out completely (can't decide whether they'd do that or not) then who will take their place? The revised Wright Amendment states that WN gets 16 gates, CO gets 2, and AA gets 3.

So who would take AA's gates?

I wish (here I go again, stop me if you've heard this one) that someone would reopen the Braniff ticketing/bag claim wing and operate out of there. Put security in the skybridge/concourse of color and you'd have an airport terminal separate from the crowded mess that Southwest has going on.


I always doubted AA could make a go at Love...
 
commavia
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:22 am

Yes, the Eagle flights out of Love do horrible -- most of them (especially to MCI and SAT) go out near-empty just about every day. The AUS flights sometimes, especially on Mondays, Fridays and Sundays, can sometimes go out about half-full or rarely better, and the STL flights have picked up a bit now that AA can sell connections over STL. Overall, though, the flights do horribly.

To keep the gates, and keep a DAL presence, they'd be smart to drop SAT and MCI, and maybe just keep STL and AUS, and add 4-5x daily EMBs to ORD for connections there. Then, once DAL is opened up, they can add 3-4x daily M80s to ORD, LGA and LAX.
 
CO777DAL
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:46 am

I know in May American Eagle and Connection carried 23,245 passengers on the four routes served out of DAL while Continental carried 27,100 passengers on their one route to Houston. I don’t know AA frequencies out of DAL to their various cities, but CO and AA both fly only fly the Embraer out of DAL. Seeing that CO one route carries more passengers than AA four, AA must not begin doing that well.

I don’t have June numbers, but figure it would be rough considering all the bad weather which causes many flight cancellations.
Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
RJNUT
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:00 am

mci does not go out empty every day.. , rather, .almost full everyday to be very honest!

but hey, who's counting!?
 
Osprey88
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:02 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
So who would take AA's gates?

I'd put money on B6.
"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"
 
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RedTailDTW
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:04 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
To keep the gates, and keep a DAL presence, they'd be smart to drop SAT and MCI, and maybe just keep STL and AUS, and add 4-5x daily EMBs to ORD for connections there. Then, once DAL is opened up, they can add 3-4x daily M80s to ORD, LGA and LAX.

Im suprised that AA hasn't used the Embraers to thier advantage. As you said, they can get rid of DAL-SAT and DAL-MCI and add DAL-ORD, DAL-MIA, which would do way better. Although, that may hurt the performance on their Intra-Hub routes out of DFW.



Mason
Airlines Flown: AA, CO, HP, MQ, NW, RP, UA, US, WN, YX / Aircraft Flown: 737-200/300/700/800, 757-200/300, 777-200, A319/A320/A321, DC-9-30/50, DC-10-40, ERJ 140/145, E170, MD80/83/90
 
boeing743
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:39 am

From what I read in this forum, It sound like AA not doing good out of DAL. I think that is reason because many people would make connection thru DFW or ORD on AA while many people not chose DAL as their final destination. So that may be reason for AA not doing good on that route. I am not sure if WN is doing good on that those route too? We will have to ask WN people, about that.
 
pr1268
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:29 am

Forgive me for venting online, but I hope AA loses millions of  dollarsign  dollarsign  dollarsign  with their DAL operations. I'm still torqued over how they fought Legend Airlines every step of the way. Pretty cruel, IMO.  mad 
The only time an aircraft has too much fuel is when it is on fire.
 
jr
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:15 am

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 4):
I know in May American Eagle and Connection carried 23,245 passengers on the four routes served out of DAL while Continental carried 27,100 passengers on their one route to Houston. I don’t know AA frequencies out of DAL to their various cities, but CO and AA both fly only fly the Embraer out of DAL. Seeing that CO one route carries more passengers than AA four, AA must not begin doing that well.

A look at schedules from the websites for 7/16/07 shows this:

Eagle/American Connection
4x MCI
5x STL
4x AUS
3x SAT

Total: 16 flights

CO-Ex
16x DAL-IAH

Capacity seems pretty even. So American doesn't seem to be doing too badly load wise. How about yields and non-rev factors in this?

Pretty impressive little operation there for CO-EX. They seem to be working a nice little niche there without much notice - didn't realize CO-Express had that many to IAH from love.
I've flown on 9V-SPK.
 
JayDavis
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:21 am

AA whether they want to admit it or not, stinks at DAL. But they will never admit they made a mistake in going over there in the first place. I cannot stand that airline, at all and they have put a few airlines out of business, so I don't shed a tear for them losing $$$$ anytime they can...............

I also miss Legend, what a great little airline, that was also killed by AA.

Karma will get AA one of these days..............and Robert Crandall, as well.
 
cjpark
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:32 am

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 11):
AA whether they want to admit it or not, stinks at DAL. But they will never admit they made a mistake in going over there in the first place. I cannot stand that airline, at all and they have put a few airlines out of business, so I don't shed a tear for them losing $$$$ anytime they can...............

I also miss Legend, what a great little airline, that was also killed by AA.

Karma will get AA one of these days..............and Robert Crandall, as well.

Mistake or not it was a strategic move on their part to ensure they would have a place at the airport if and when it was opened up.

Was your airline a victim of the free market system Jay?
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
AA737-823
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:29 pm

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 12):
Was your airline a victim of the free market system Jay?

I'll stick up for Jay on this one.
No, his (and my) airline was not a victim of the free market system. I am ALL FOR increased competition. Unfortunately, American Airlines is not. I can't blame them. But the things they did to Legend for several years were inarguably predatory.
The only people who don't see it that way are the people that mattered: the politicians.
When you lose a lawsuit and sue again under the same allegations, that's lawsuit abuse on top of all the other sins.

But, this is off topic.

You think B6 will move in? Interesting... with all the fanfare and panache they've got, they could almost resurrect the Braniff heritage at Love Field.... Nice thought!
 
brons2
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:16 pm

I flew AA AUS-DAL-MCI a couple of times last fall. Liked the service, liked the AA wing of the DAL terminal (quiet) and I liked getting 2,000 bonus miles to my AAdvantage account for connecting in DAL!

I would connect in DAL again even without the bonus miles.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
AA737-823
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:24 pm

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 14):
I would connect in DAL again even without the bonus miles.

Agreed... Love is a breeze to do anything in: be dropped off, transfer, be picked up, rent a car, what have you. Dallas Love is very much a more manageable facility than DFW.
I like DFW a lot, too; it serves a certain purpose that Love never could.
But for my O&D airport of choice when returning home, give me Love any day.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:31 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 13):
You think B6 will move in? Interesting... with all the fanfare and panache they've got, they could almost resurrect the Braniff heritage at Love Field.... Nice thought!

They've tried that at HOU with dismal results; why would DAL be better?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
JayDavis
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 12):
Mistake or not it was a strategic move on their part to ensure they would have a place at the airport if and when it was opened up.

Was your airline a victim of the free market system Jay?

Nope, I don't even work for an airline, I just hate AA and their arrogant attitude.

Looks like their "strategy" of moving to Love Field, ain't working. I "love" that!!
 
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knope2001
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:36 am

Here are onboard load factors for the first four months of 2007 departing DAL

Kansas City
Jan
AA 32.8% (1x/day)
AA* 57.0% (3x/day)

Feb
AA 30.5% (1x/day)
AA* 65.8% (3x/day)

Mar
AA 34.8% (1x/day)
AA* 74.1% (3x/day)

Apr
AA* 65.1% (4x/day)

St Louis
Jan
AA 24.1% (3x/day)
AA* 50.8% (2x/day)

Feb
AA 27.4% (3x/day)
AA* 56.3% (2x/day)

Mar
AA 36.2% (3x/day)
AA* 69.6% (2x/day)

Apr
AA 31.6% (1x/day)
AA* 60.7% (4x/day)

Austin
4x/day on AA*
Jan 25.7%
Feb 30.5%
Mar 36.2%
Apr 33.6%

San Antonio
3x/day on AA*
Jan 29.9%
Feb 36.7%
Mar 47.9%
Apr 43.4%
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4888
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:58 am

Those numbers are absolutely dismal.
What's the difference between AA and AA*???

I typically find myself in nearly full jungle jets when I go COEx to IAH...
 
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knope2001
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:03 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 19):
Those numbers are absolutely dismal.
What's the difference between AA and AA*???

AA is mainline American....M80 or 737
AA* is American Eagle...50-seat RJs.
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:09 am

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
CO777DAL
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Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:01 am

RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 8):
I am not sure if WN is doing good on that those route too? We will have to ask WN people, about that.

I don’t know about specific routes but overall WN is doing well as DAL

May 2007
WN 659,841 passengers up 21.70% from May 2006 542,173 passsengers

Also from the Dallas Morning News “Mr. Kelly said changes in the Wright amendment have led to a tremendous jump in traffic and revenues for flights at Dallas Love Field. He said the increased traffic, up about 30 percent, may produce an additional $100 million in annual revenue for Southwest.”
Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
CO777DAL
Posts: 423
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:01 am

RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:42 am

Quoting Jr (Reply 10):
Pretty impressive little operation there for CO-EX. They seem to be working a nice little niche there without much notice - didn't realize CO-Express had that many to IAH from love.

Now if only we can get CO to throw in a couple 737s here and there, it would be great!
Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
 
737DAB320
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:51 am

RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:37 am

Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 6):
I'd put money on B6.

I wouldn't. Where would they fly to? They wouldn't be able to fly to any of their hubs because of the Wright Amendment.
Nothing is certain.
 
Tornado82
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:01 am

ExpressJet has the 145XR's, and could fly to practically any city in the country from DAL with the XR's range (sans EWR and CLE). If I were ExpressJet I'd be running a Wright buster operation in DAL, providing service to places WN and Eagle's standard ERJ's could only dream of... all within the full letter and spirit of the law.
 
JayDavis
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:45 am

Good idea Tornado82, yet I think at one time, COEX had service from DAL to CLE and it didn't do very well. Also don't know how people would like to fly in an type of regional jet from DAL to EWR. I think that would be a pretty long and thin route, yet I would hate to be on that plane for 3 1/2 hours or longer. I bet that would be the approximate flight time on that jungle jet.
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:10 am

Is there anything in the amended WA agreement/compromise that states an airline has to actually use the gates they lease at DAL? What's to keep AA from holding on to the leases but not actually using all 3 gates, or under-utilizing them just to keep out the competition? The only reason they are at DAL and agreed to the new agreement was to keep other carriers out. Unless the airport has ultimate control of the gates, AA could theoretically sit on them unused for perpetuity just to keep the B6's of the world out of DAL, and I think that was their plan all along.

Personally, I think the legal wrangling over DAL isn't over. Especially if AA isn't using it's gates competitively.
 
ScottB
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:18 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 25):
If I were ExpressJet I'd be running a Wright buster operation in DAL, providing service to places WN and Eagle's standard ERJ's could only dream of... all within the full letter and spirit of the law.

Except that would probably provoke the nuclear response from AA. It's also a business plan which really only works for about the next seven years. Availability of slots at LGA and/or DCA would also be an issue.
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:21 am

Just heard on the 5pm local KDFW Fox 4 News that AA was dropping service to STL and SAT starting in September from DAL. But AA is doubling service to MCI and AUS.

How odd is that, that this thread is going on and they just announced this on the TV, July 16 at 5pm.
 
moman
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 29):
How odd is that, that this thread is going on and they just announced this on the TV, July 16 at 5pm.

So you started a new thread about it?

We knew that DAL-STL was not doing well. Maybe they will bring back a couple more STL-DFW flights, which are always full.
AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
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RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:28 am

Yes, I started a new thread and gave the link to the Fox 4 website for people to read the entire article.

I'm really surprised that they dropped STL, since it "was" a former hub for AA/TW.

MCI flights are always full. Lots of traffic between the DFW area and MCI, due to BurlingtonNorthernSantaFe Railroad as well as the US Postal Service (Siemen's postal stuff) and Hallmark cards in MCI.

I'm sure there is more traffic supporting these flights but those are two definites.
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting RedTailDTW (Reply 7):



Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
Yes, the Eagle flights out of Love do horrible -- most of them (especially to MCI and SAT) go out near-empty just about every day.

I didnt think that was the case,,,And they are now doubling the flights...Dont always believe everything pepole on here say!
 
moman
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:17 am

RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 31):
I'm really surprised that they dropped STL, since it "was" a former hub for AA/TW.

What are you talking about? STL is a AA hub. AA still flies DFW-STL, they are just dropping DAL-STL, which was added back in 2006 to retaliate against WN for their push to open the Wright Amendment.
AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
 
cch362
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2001 1:28 am

RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:50 am

WN has really given AA a good spanking on this one. Of AA's four DAL routes, STL has the worst load factor -- about 33%. MCI has the best, but at less than 50% it isn't exactly a stellar result either. LFs for AUS and SAT are both below 40%.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting JayDavis (Reply 26):
COEX had service from DAL to CLE and it didn't do very well. Also don't know how people would like to fly in an type of regional jet from DAL to EWR

Who said CLE and EWR? I'm talking ExpressJet's branded, unaffiliated "X-Jet" service. "X-Jet" isn't even allowed to fly to EWR/CLE. X-Jet could sure go direct DAL-SAN or something of that nature though.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 28):
Except that would probably provoke the nuclear response from AA. It's also a business plan which really only works for about the next seven years. Availability of slots at LGA and/or DCA would also be an issue.

AA's "nuclear response" would have to be from DFW though. And it wouldn't necessarily have to be DCA/LGA either (I'm near certain that X-Jet is forbidden entirely from NYC due to the CO contract), BWI or IAD would work for DCA. No matter what these are cities AA can only reach from DFW due to their current fleet, and WN can't touch nonstop. 7 years from now X-Jet comes up with a new game plan, or just stays the course. By then they'd likely have a loyal following on the business heavy routes.
 
ScottB
Posts: 5414
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 35):
AA's "nuclear response" would have to be from DFW though.

It can be balanced between DFW and DAL; after all, they've got ERJ's at their disposal, too. ERJ's at DAL to remain Wright-compliant, MD-80's at DFW, and fares that match ExpressJet's at DAL.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 35):
(I'm near certain that X-Jet is forbidden entirely from NYC due to the CO contract)

I'm pretty sure it's only EWR; they were flying into JFK on B6's behalf while the E190's were being upgraded by Embraer. I don't think DAL-LGA would be workable even with the E145XR, given the frequent delays into LGA.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 35):
BWI or IAD would work for DCA. No matter what these are cities AA can only reach from DFW due to their current fleet, and WN can't touch nonstop.

WN doesn't have to go non-stop to these places; they'll still be able to offer a superior schedule (of one-stop flights) and would be very competitive on fares. WN has a strong, loyal market at DAL.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 3):
Yes, the Eagle flights out of Love do horrible -- most of them (especially to MCI and SAT) go out near-empty just about every day. The AUS flights sometimes, especially on Mondays, Fridays and Sundays, can sometimes go out about half-full or rarely better, and the STL flights have picked up a bit now that AA can sell connections over STL. Overall, though, the flights do horribly.

And there's a reason for that... People who prefer AA's service over WN's are typically going to continue to use DFW out of habit and out of convenience; AA's schedule choices from DFW are simply far superior to their choices from DAL. AAdvantage Elite flyers will continue to use DFW for the availability of upgrades on mainline aircraft. People who are inclined to use DAL are likely already loyal to WN and will continue to choose them. On routes like DAL-AUS and DAL-SAT, AA's schedule from DAL was uncompetitive.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: How Is AA Doing At Dallas Love Field?

Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:36 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 36):
after all, they've got ERJ's at their disposal, too.

Eagle's "standard" ERJ-145's can't do what X-Jet's 145-XR's can do. That was my point.

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