MaverickM11
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DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:36 am

No surprises here. LAXTIJ discontinued after JUL07 and FLLSDQ discontinued after AUG07.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
LAXintl
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:01 am

So we add Tijuana as another LAX experiment that failed to pan out for Delta. No surprise I guess - LAX-TIJ service was lunacy in my book from the minute it was announced.

I have to give DL credit however that atleast they are willing to pull the plug on routes that perform poorly and do not get involved in long term blood letting.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jetlanta
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):

I have to give DL credit however that atleast they are willing to pull the plug on routes that perform poorly and do not get involved in long term blood letting.

Exactly. The thing is, an investment like opening up TIJ is virtually nothing to a carrier the size of Delta. If it is clear it doesn't work, you pull the plug. On the other hand, some of these international markets have little data or history to tell you if they will work or not. Sometimes the best way to find out is to stick your feet in. If you find a good market or two they might contribute profits for decades. You cancel the dogs as soon as possible and move on.

I wouldn't advocate this approach as much for 777's, but for RJ's its way to open up some unique markets.
 
Marcus
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:31 am

That is sad news for TIJ.......but come to think I think I know why......... I looked at fares and they were at $320RT!!!!!!!!!!, and there was no promotion at all here in the city.........I told people about this and nobody knew anything, there was just a note on the local newspaper
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
 
ptugarin
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting Marcus (Reply 3):
I looked at fares and they were at $320RT!!!!!!!!!!,

This wasn't meant to be an O/D route, but more for LAX - to points in Mexico, and TIJ to points in USA and Asia.
 
SANFan
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:13 am

Didn't the TJ route just very recently start, maybe last month? I just wonder how/why they pulled the plug that fast? Was it about more than just low loads?

I am not the least surprised at the result, just the speed at which it happened?

bb
 
CMHSRQ
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting Marcus (Reply 3):
That is sad news for TIJ.......but come to think I think I know why......... I looked at fares and they were at $320RT!!!!!!!!!!, and there was no promotion at all here in the city.........I told people about this and nobody knew anything, there was just a note on the local newspaper

I was going to do do a milage run from CMH-TIJ, routing would have been CMH-ATL-LAX-TIJ-LAX-ATL-CMH, would have banked 7000 plus miles, fare was $217 RT plus taxes which were right around $100. Planning on PDX instead, I can do that in a day for $150RT + taxes CMH-SLC-PDX-SLC-CMH 14 hours 4518 miles, $198
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MaverickM11
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):
Didn't the TJ route just very recently start, maybe last month? I just wonder how/why they pulled the plug that fast? Was it about more than just low loads?

Started June 07 so it lasted about two months. It has got to be one of the worst route additions I've seen in a long time; no one took the addition seriously.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
SANFan
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
Started June 07 so it lasted about two months.

Hmmm, I see it as having lasted just a month... Again, I wonder if there were circumstances regarding TIJ or some logistics or regulatory/government problems that were not expected; this was one of the shortest-lived routes since AS tried to fly between SNA and YVR!

bb

[Edited 2007-07-13 21:55:23]
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
So we add Tijuana as another LAX experiment that failed to pan out for Delta. No surprise I guess - LAX-TIJ service was lunacy in my book from the minute it was announced.

Funny thing is now DL is trying LAX-SAN service (discussed in another thread). Looks as if they are landing the CRJ just a few miles up I-5!  biggrin 

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
and FLLSDQ discontinued after AUG07.

I think they were at a serious disadvantage with AA just down I-95 at MIA and Spirit there at FLL. For DL, FLL is probably a better destination than origin from the U.S./Canada since Port Everglades is such an important cruise-ship station for all the big lines. Any D.R. service is best done from JFK and ATL. Perhaps seasonally from CVG or the other hubs to the resorts (PUJ, POP etc...).

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 2):
The thing is, an investment like opening up TIJ is virtually nothing to a carrier the size of Delta. If it is clear it doesn't work, you pull the plug. On the other hand, some of these international markets have little data or history to tell you if they will work or not. Sometimes the best way to find out is to stick your feet in. If you find a good market or two they might contribute profits for decades. You cancel the dogs as soon as possible and move on.

We agree again!  eyepopping  For International service the connectivity of ATL and the O&D that JFK can both support has been a great asset to their transformation. The O&D of LAX can offer some similar advantages to the Far East/Asia.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 2):
I wouldn't advocate this approach as much for 777's, but for RJ's its way to open up some unique markets.

 checkmark  I do like what DL and OO are trying from SLC with their CRJs. One route I'm told that is currently seasonal is SLC-YYJ, that just might go year around in the next year or two. It is running an extra month into the fall, tentatively ending on October 28th rather than the end of September as it did last year. This route has given Vancouver Island an alternative (the island has over half a million people now) to AS/Horizon into SEA fro trans-border service or sticking passengers on BC Ferries to get over to YVR for other options. So the LAX-TIJ route was a good gamble for DL, but I think other Mexico cities further down will do better. That said, such new CRJ routes are much less of a gamble from a hub like SLC to places at or about 2 hours flying time in the west. A 763 route from SLC to CDG or LGW is MUCH more of a gamble, so hence the community subsidy requirement.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
SANFan
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 10):
Funny thing is now DL is trying LAX-SAN service (discussed in another thread). Looks as if they are landing the CRJ just a few miles up I-5!

Interestingly I posted essentially this same comment on the OTHER thread! Great minds...

bb
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 10):
Funny thing is now DL is trying LAX-SAN service (discussed in another thread). Looks as if they are landing the CRJ just a few miles up I-5!

And you don't have to pay $80 in taxes  Smile
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
RobertS975
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:52 am

Last year, I started a thread asking why there was no trans-border service out of TIJ. It still amazes me that this doesn't work, given the population of the greater TIJ area down to Ensenada etc, and the difficulty in crossing the border by land.
Why No US Carriers To TIJ? (by RobertS975 Oct 15 2006 in Civil Aviation)
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:09 am

However a CO RJ to IAH could yield better results...
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
DesertAir
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:57 am

I believe AeroCalifornia flew this route for many years. Does anyone know how their loads were. Of course, their route system was similar to WN's in that one plane city hopped.
 
RobertS975
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:38 am

I suspect that TIJ routes that might work would be to PHX, OAK and maybe IAH.
 
fllcontinental
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:34 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
I think they were at a serious disadvantage with AA just down I-95 at MIA and Spirit there at FLL. For DL, FLL is probably a better destination than origin from the U.S./Canada since Port Everglades is such an important cruise-ship station for all the big lines. Any D.R. service is best done from JFK and ATL. Perhaps seasonally from CVG or the other hubs to the resorts (PUJ, POP etc...).

not just that but now AA is flying FLL to SDQ to try to crush NK
 
SANFan
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:45 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 12):
Last year, I started a thread asking why there was no trans-border service out of TIJ. It still amazes me that this doesn't work, given the population of the greater TIJ area down to Ensenada etc, and the difficulty in crossing the border by land.

This is just another piece of evidence that it doesn't work. It's an interesting relationship between Tijuana and San Diego, speaking here in civil aviation terms. For the many Mexican residents travelling in the US, SAN has pretty decent service (certainly to most of the US hubs) and there's always LAX. Apparently it is easier to cross the border into the US then continue to any US destination as a domestic/local passenger -- no airport customs or immigration to deal with.

Reciprocally, Lindbergh Field doesn't seem to be able to support much of any Mexico service. (We currently have 15 weekly flights on 3 cx to SJD, 1 flight per week to PVR, and 1 weekly flight to CUN -- and that apparently disappears for good in the fall.) As there is decent service to a lot of Mexico (and improving as time goes on) from Rodriguez Airport, many Mexico-bound US travellers either cross the border and fly (again as domestic pax) within Mexico (without airport customs) or go to LAX.

You have 2 large cities, in 2 separate countries, each with its own airport serving its own country and separated by less than 20 miles. I guess in the big picture, it's somewhat logical that neither city/airport has much service to the other country's cities. Maybe that's just the way it's going to stay, at least for a while.

bb
 
MCOAviationFan
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:19 pm

I was told by a source within Delta marketing, that the FLL-SDQ will end on Sep 5 and resume sometime in December. I figure time will tell if this is accurate. I understand the loads were pretty low on the route (30-40). Perhaps they expect the holiday season would be a better time of year to start this route.
 
vsmike
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:29 pm

Dang! This is a shame. I was just getting used to flying the TIJ route. I do occasional work in TIJ, and have learned to prefer flying directly there from MCO (via LAX), versus the cross-boarder drive (or walk) from SAN. Plus, my SkyMiles didn't disagree, either. At ~20 mins flight time, granted, it was a bit of a joke I suppose... too good to last. Obviously there isn't a real market here. The highest load I ever saw on the E145 was 7. Lowest, 2. I love the private plane feel, but I guess that doesn't pay the bills. It was an interesting contast to see an American flag carrier in TIJ, however, I cannot recall if/when another American airline flew there (anyone?). I haven't seen a US airline at TIJ for at least the past 3 years I've been heading down there. Their ground handlers, SEAT, were very, very friendly and accommodating.

Oh well, looks like I'll be on one of the last operations out of TIJ on 21st of July.
Good for DL. Bad for me.

VSM
Skyteam. Caring More About Me.
 
akizidy214
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:57 pm

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 18):
I was told by a source within Delta marketing, that the FLL-SDQ will end on Sep 5 and resume sometime in December.

Well ther better have a better departure time from FLL if the want to really succeed at this route. The 730am departure gave them 0 chance to connect any passengers.
DCA
 
ATLBoiler
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:36 pm

Look for something regarding another one of the LAX-Mexico markets in the near future that's not performing well. Also look for some news regarding a couple of other Caribbean destinations recently opened.  Smile
 
HVNandrew
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:11 am

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 20):
Well ther better have a better departure time from FLL if the want to really succeed at this route. The 730am departure gave them 0 chance to connect any passengers.

Connecting pax was not what the route was designed for. It's a route they thought they could fly strictly on O/D. The connecting pax would all still be sent through ATL.
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:57 am

Not sure if this was mentioned, but Hermosillio is also on the chopping block. Supposed to end in September, last I heard.

FLL-SDQ's times were perfect. The flight was meant for O&D, not connecting traffic.
a.
 
akizidy214
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 22):
Connecting pax was not what the route was designed for.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
FLL-SDQ's times were perfect. The flight was meant for O&D, not connecting traffic.

Well they need to rethink that because there is not enough o/d traffic for them to survive if this route comes back.
DCA
 
DesertAir
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 15):
I suspect that TIJ routes that might work would be to PHX, OAK and maybe IAH.

A number of years ago there was a flight between OAK and TIJ a few times a week on Azteca (?). The flight then continued onto Guadalajara or some other city. Can anyone verify that it was Azteca?

Thanks.
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 24):
Well they need to rethink that because there is not enough o/d traffic for them to survive if this route comes back.

Um, no. There is plenty of O&D traffic. MIA/FLL is Santo Domingo's large O&D market. Largest. Larger than even NYC. Larger than any other city. Delta couldn't get that traffic away from AA and NK.
a.
 
oakjam
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:13 am

I flew on a Lineas Aereas Aztecas (ZE) from OAK to TIJ and then continuing to GDL last year on Aug 31. The flight had 58 people 10 going to TIJ and 48 going to GDL. ZE had financial difficulties so they shut the route down. The plane type was a 737-700. My flight ended up being diverted to MXL due to heavy fog, I had a 6hr delay and then we flew back to TIJ @ 9:30am on a 20min flight from MXL. Loads according to the flight attendant were not very high but about 10-15 passengers to TIJ daily. Also under ZE the flight only lasted 1 month. OAK also had this route with Allegro Airlines which did the same routing OAK-TIJ-GDL with and MD-80 series.
 
HVNandrew
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:46 am

Could DL move the SDQ flight over to MCO? They already have a MCO-MEX flight (though I don't know how much longer that will be around...), plus inter-state feed opportunities.
 
akizidy214
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 26):
Um, no. There is plenty of O&D traffic. MIA/FLL is Santo Domingo's large O&D market. Largest. Larger than even NYC. Larger than any other city. Delta couldn't get that traffic away from AA and NK.

Umm, obviously not. If there was enough traffic the route wouldn't have gotten canned. AA doesn't even fly the route no stop yet. DL could pull route off with the o/d traffic and a better dearture time for FLL to allow for connections. That 7:30am will not cut it with AA and NK in the same market. I kinda think HVNandrew has a point DL could do a MCO-SDQ much better than a FLL-SDQ run in my opinion.
DCA
 
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na747
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:52 pm

DL's ATL-BQN and ATL-PSE also failed.
Then again, they didn't offer daily service to either one (PSE was a 2x week affair). Not very convenient IMO.
B6 and CO have been able to maintain daily svc to these cities for some time now with bigger aircrafts at horrible times.
 
jetjeanes
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:58 pm

AeroCalifornia must not have done to well they were on our cash list as they were broke or in bankruptcy. They had some of the dirtest planes ive ever seen.. They looked like a hybrid from iberia airlines....
i can see for 80 miles
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:15 pm

Quoting ATLBoiler (Reply 21):
Also look for some news regarding a couple of other Caribbean destinations recently opened.  

When you say Caribbean......are you meaning from LAX?...if so, I suspect there is some good news about BZE!
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 29):
Umm, obviously not. If there was enough traffic the route wouldn't have gotten canned. AA doesn't even fly the route no stop yet. DL could pull route off with the o/d traffic and a better dearture time for FLL to allow for connections. That 7:30am will not cut it with AA and NK in the same market. I kinda think HVNandrew has a point DL could do a MCO-SDQ much better than a FLL-SDQ run in my opinion.

Just because Delta was not succesful does not mean that the O&D traffic isn't there. It is. Delta simply wasn't able to capture it.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 28):
Could DL move the SDQ flight over to MCO? They already have a MCO-MEX flight (though I don't know how much longer that will be around...), plus inter-state feed opportunities.

Considering how poorly MCO-MEX does (doubt it will be around much longer), and that MEX is a larger market (for Delta, and from Orlando), I don't think it would work at all. MCO-SDQ isn't a huge market.
a.
 
Marcus
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
does not mean that the O&D traffic isn't there

What kind of traffic is this?
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued

Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:15 am

Quoting Marcus (Reply 34):
What kind of traffic is this?

Origin&Destination traffic, passengers that begin or end their routing in FLL, in contrast to a connecting passenger that is coming in from ATL to fly on to SDQ.