BatonOps
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DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:02 am

 
Zone1
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:22 am

Ouch... Chuck and Hillary wrote Grinstein about this. I guess DL doesn't need that much political capital since the China route is all but a done deal!  Silly
/// U N I T E D
 
Flighty
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:36 am

It's hilarious (pardon the pun) that Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer suddenly put on their airline network planning hats and decided to dig into the numbers. Their forecasts are utterly fascinating! Really, senators?
 
DLPMMM
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting Hillary from the aritcle:

"This decision to seriously limit access to the region by air travelers will hurt countless small businesses that depend on outside tourist dollars to survive,” she said.

WTF?

I didn't realize that so many people spent their vacations in Binghamton!  boggled 

Politicians are such weasels!
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:48 am

I wouldn't really consider Hilary a politician....just a NY transplant.

As for Chuck, well he isn't any smarter than the rest of us when it comes to network planning....actually I think most users on this site would have more expertise than him.....see if he can spell CSM  Wink

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
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STT757
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:55 am

I drive to Binghamton all the time, it's not that far from the city. When the airspace is congested as it is these short hops have to be the first to go, if it's between a DL 757 to Las Vegas or a ERJ to Binghamton take the Vegas route.

NJ Transit is planning on restoring passenger rail service to Scranton Pennsylvania via the Lackawanna Cut-off, the Lackawanna cut off continues to Binghamton. NY State should get in on the project to connect Binghamton with the City.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Delta787
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:59 am

Chuck and Hillary have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
Fly Delta!
 
jetlanta
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting Delta787 (Reply 6):
Chuck and Hillary have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

Of course not. They are just representing their constituents. What are they supposed to say? "We think this is great. Binghamton has too much air service today."

I'd honestly say that my experience is that Sen. Schumer is probably one the most actively involved members of Congress in terms air service issues for his state. I may not often agree with him in such matters, but he understands its importance and probably has done more to help air service in NY than anyone anywhere.
 
Dalmd88
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:32 am

All Chuck understands is where the camera is. Rumor in DC is the most dangerous place to stand is between Chuck and a TV camera.
 
jetlanta
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 8):
All Chuck understands is where the camera is. Rumor in DC is the most dangerous place to stand is between Chuck and a TV camera.

So true. But at least he fights for his state. I can't tell you how many good things have happened to air service in outstate NY just so Chuck wouldn't get pissed off. I was in on several things myself, back in the day.

Trent Lott is the same way in MS.

They both seem to care more about air service issues than the standard Senator.
 
stlgph
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 9):

Agreed. If it was most Senators, they wouldn't care at all. After all, hasn't Chuckie been around for jetBlue, and the expansion of services into Newburgh & White Plains?

But really, go ahead and complain about him.

Also, as far as air-savvy Senators, you can add Kit Bond from Missouri to that list.

Quoting Delta787 (Reply 6):

I bet you they're more in touch with the needs of the people of their state than you are.

Just a guess, of course.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:03 am

Why is BGM still in the online schedule?
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 3):
Politicians are such weasels!

 rotfl  Couldn't be better said! Doesn't matter which partisan side of the isle they are on either.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
It's hilarious (pardon the pun) that Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer suddenly put on their airline network planning hats and decided to dig into the numbers.

 rotfl  Considering such politicians would give us such winners as Amtrack and stick it to the taxpayer, no wonder they are in polotics rather than business.

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 8):
All Chuck understands is where the camera is. Rumor in DC is the most dangerous place to stand is between Chuck and a TV camera.

Now if Hillary weren't running for the White House, I wouldn't put it past this grand-stander to have his hat in that ring.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 9):
I can't tell you how many good things have happened to air service in outstate NY just so Chuck wouldn't get pissed off.

For once we agree!  smile  Sometimes political clout can come in handy for an area that is more or less in the economic and population growth doldrums (Look how many Congressional House Rep's New York has lost in the past 3-4 census re-districts. I think it is something like 8 or even 10!).

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 9):
Trent Lott is the same way in MS.

I just love what he told Doug Parker about the proposed shot-gun marriage between DL and HP/US! You could say Grinstien had him in his hip pocket.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
I drive to Binghamton all the time, it's not that far from the city. When the airspace is congested as it is these short hops have to be the first to go, if it's between a DL 757 to Las Vegas or a ERJ to Binghamton take the Vegas route.

I think I'll shock Jetlanta with this one, but even a second 752 frequency from JFK-SLC is more economically viable than a CRJ to BGM!  eyepopping 

Quoting STT757 (Reply 5):
NJ Transit is planning on restoring passenger rail service to Scranton Pennsylvania via the Lackawanna Cut-off, the Lackawanna cut off continues to Binghamton. NY State should get in on the project to connect Binghamton with the City.

This is why Amtrack is so lame and perhaps should be busted up into regional authorities, rather than be run like a super-Greyhound on rails.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
flyinryan99
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 11):
Why is BGM still in the online schedule?

My guess is the schedules will be updated on Saturday Night/Sunday Morning. Look sometime Sunday and it probably won't be there.
 
stlgph
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 12):
This is why Amtrack is so lame and perhaps should be busted up into regional authorities, rather than be run like a super-Greyhound on rails.

Not necessarily. If the state wanted Amtrak service there, the state could get Amtrak service.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
jetlanta
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 12):

I think I'll shock Jetlanta with this one, but even a second 752 frequency from JFK-SLC is more economically viable than a CRJ to BGM! eyepopping

And a third! BGM didn't make one dime for Delta. Ever.

They stuck around longer than anyone had a right to expect. And changed the routes three times, looking for something that would work. I don't think you can ask for more.
 
SpencerII
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:47 am

From someone who works in market planning, I have watched this with Delta for sometime, and they have given BGM every opportunity to prove itself. If BGM was as lucrative as the airport officials are claiming, then you would see other airlines going a$$ over tea kettle to increase of start service. That won't happen.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 14):
Not necessarily. If the state wanted Amtrak service there, the state could get Amtrak service.

Which is what Chuck and Hillary should be trying to do rather than strong-arm airline CEO's into $$$ losing service.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 15):
They stuck around longer than anyone had a right to expect. And changed the routes three times, looking for something that would work. I don't think you can ask for more.

 checkmark  Give DL credit for trying BGM as you said. BUF, ROC, SYR and ALB are all better suited for DL or DL/Connection service to ATL, CVG or the short-hop into JFK.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:48 am

I know one Delta Platinum Medallion over on FlyerTalk that is not going to like this news one bit.
 
Delta787
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:52 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 10):
I bet you they're more in touch with the needs of the people of their state than you are.

Thats up in the air considering they are politicians after all.

[Edited 2007-07-14 04:53:02]
Fly Delta!
 
AJMIA
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:03 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 3):
I didn't realize that so many people spent their vacations in Binghamton!

I went to Binghamton to see an REM concert when I was in college (1985). There really was not much there and the energy of the place made me feel sad. Not sure what the home style is called where the big wood shingles serve as siding, but it sure dont look nice.

Does USAir still fly there??

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 12):
I just love what he told Doug Parker about the proposed shot-gun marriage between DL and HP/US! You could say Grinstien had him in his hip pocket.


Nevermind...went and found it for myself.  Smile

[Edited 2007-07-14 05:16:14]
 
BatonOps
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 20):
Does USAir still fly there??

Yes...but express service only to PHL with Dash 8's or CRJ's. They also get NW to DTW on CRJ's and UA to IAD on Saab 340's.
 
kith
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:22 am

One word for BGM...haha. It always is sad to see a neighboring community lose air service but airlines are a business, if the flight isn't making money then pull out
Senator Schumer has been instrumental in fighting for upstate NY's air service be it with getting NW to ITH (which is slightly profitable), B6 to upstate and now DL. Schumer did not make a press conference about this, some low level aid wrote this piwce because Schumer had to say something as it is his constituency. As for Senator Clinton, she has brought a lot of $$ to NY, even if the Marine One contract is f***** (thought that was an ELM thing anyways!), -Matt in KITH
 
BatonOps
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:05 am

Quoting KITH (Reply 23):
NW to ITH (which is slightly profitable

The last article I read about NW to ITH was that the route is doing very well. I was home in ITH a few weeks ago and there was an article in the Ithaca Journal saying that traffic was up around 12% for 2007 compared to 2006. Good news for ITH.  Smile  Smile
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:30 am

According to faremeasure, the average one-way flight between BGM and ATL was $263.10. With fares that high, did DL ever consider lowering them in order to stimulate traffic?

Maybe it would make sense for B6 to enter the market with a daily n/s to JFK, but I'm afraid it would cannabilize traffic at SWF and SYR.

JetBluefan1
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:15 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 25):
Maybe it would make sense for B6 to enter the market with a daily n/s to JFK, but I'm afraid it would cannabilize traffic at SWF and SYR.

That wouldnt work. BGM is too small for B6.
 
BatonOps
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:31 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 26):
That wouldnt work. BGM is too small for B6.

I agree. You'll never see B6 at ITH, ELM or BGM.

With DL leaving BGM that leaves ITH with the only nonstop service to the New York area.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:32 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 26):

That wouldnt work. BGM is too small for B6.

Very true but maybe ITH could work.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
BatonOps
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 28):
Very true but maybe ITH could work.

I'd love to see ITH with B6 but I won't hold my breath.  Smile At this point I think ITH is lucky to have NW and US serving the airport.
 
rocANDtpa
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:32 am

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 24):
The last article I read about NW to ITH was that the route is doing very well. I was home in ITH a few weeks ago and there was an article in the Ithaca Journal saying that traffic was up around 12% for 2007 compared to 2006. Good news for ITH.

If the route is doing well then NW should be upgrading these routes to CRJ jets.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:41 am

Quoting RocANDtpa (Reply 30):
If the route is doing well then NW should be upgrading these routes to CRJ jets.

Hahaha.

You and I should have a private conversation about routes that NW needs to upgrade to jets.

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 27):
I agree. You'll never see B6 at ITH, ELM or BGM.

Whats the O&D to the New york area from these places? Were the BGM flights living ( or dying) off connecting passengers or o&d?
 
Alitalia744
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 18):
I know one Delta Platinum Medallion over on FlyerTalk that is not going to like this news one bit.

You're right, he's not happy at all....
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
flyingcat
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:07 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 25):
According to faremeasure, the average one-way flight between BGM and ATL was $263.10. With fares that high, did DL ever consider lowering them in order to stimulate traffic?

That is for local traffic not connecting where the majority of the plane was going elsewhere.
 
BatonOps
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:12 pm

Quoting RocANDtpa (Reply 30):
If the route is doing well then NW should be upgrading these routes to CRJ jets.

That would be a nice upgrade for ITH. Right now both flights are on Saab 340's.
 
belizexp
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:08 pm

DL should of maybe using Big Sky via BOS all the other upstate flts via BOS look like it working out so far....
Belize my home sweet home...
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 34):
That would be a nice upgrade for ITH. Right now both flights are on Saab 340's.

I think you should have to support another frequency before you start talking about jets.
 
BatonOps
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 35):
DL should of maybe using Big Sky via BOS all the other upstate flts via BOS look like it working out so far....

ITH several years ago had service to BOS on USX. I think all three cities (ITH,ELM,BGM) would do well with service to BOS.
 
kith
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:40 am

ITH's problem is it is very seasonal traffic and the fare to LGA (try this its fun) try to find a roundtrip ITH-LGA that is under $500 anytime in advance. Usairways does not to the revenue management on this route (this is from a Colgan FA) so Colgan does it and charges the same amount regardless of how far in advance one books. The lowest I have found is $522 and the highest is $650 for 45minutes in a Saab 340.
ITH like most of upstate used to have DC 9's/F100's to PIT, B1900's to IAD, DH 8's to BOS to name a few. Bring back CO EX would be the best thing for ITH given the connection options out of EWR that US just doesn't have from PHL. -Matt in KITH
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting KITH (Reply 38):
ITH's problem is it is very seasonal traffic and the fare to LGA (try this its fun) try to find a roundtrip ITH-LGA that is under $500 anytime in advance. Usairways does not to the revenue management on this route (this is from a Colgan FA) so Colgan does it and charges the same amount regardless of how far in advance one books. The lowest I have found is $522 and the highest is $650 for 45minutes in a Saab 340.

Thats the Colgan way. They love to price gouge on their at-risk flying.

They want 430+R/T from here to either D.C. airport.
 
BatonOps
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting KITH (Reply 38):
CO EX would be the best thing for ITH given the connection options out of EWR

I flew that route many times growing up in ITH. Who knows...when Colgan starts flying the Q400 maybe ITH will get the service back.
 
LV
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 12):
Considering such politicians would give us such winners as Amtrack and stick it to the taxpayer, no wonder they are in polotics rather than business.



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 12):
This is why Amtrack is so lame and perhaps should be busted up into regional authorities, rather than be run like a super-Greyhound on rails.

I realize this is an airline board, and this is off subject, but these two statements just have to be addressed.
Amtrak is only as screwed up as it is because it's a government agency. Honestly, the problem is that everytime Amtrak leaders want to make any change to the route structure, Congress starts to threaten legislation to shut it down. Hand Amtrak over to me tomorrow and get the government away from it and I could make it profitable as long as I could get the freight railroads to cooperate.

Amtrak is a vital part of our national security. In order for commerce to work, we must be able to travel from state to state, coast to coast. After the airpsace was shut down on Sept. 11, how did people continue to travel, Amtrak, until things were sorted out.

How many thousands of minivans headed to Florida are taken off I-95 ever year thanks to the Auto Train?

How much more would airspace in the Northeast and Southern California be congested if I wasn't for Acela and Coastliner services from Amtrak?

Okay, I'll get off the Save Amtrak soap box now.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting LV (Reply 41):
Amtrak is only as screwed up as it is because it's a government agency. Honestly, the problem is that everytime Amtrak leaders want to make any change to the route structure, Congress starts to threaten legislation to shut it down. Hand Amtrak over to me tomorrow and get the government away from it and I could make it profitable as long as I could get the freight railroads to cooperate.

 checkmark  Which is my point entirely if you read between the lines. Being government owned at the Federal level makes it highly vulnerable to political meddling, and countless $$$ are poured down the drain. Can you imagine what would happen if the government bought out and consolidated all the big legacy carriers just to protect union jobs?
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
TIA
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:13 am

BGM should be happy it even has the remaining service. Every time I drove through that sad town, it made me wonder what's there for people to do. Unfortunately, that's the case with most of upstate NY, with small exceptions like ITH.

Quoting KITH (Reply 38):
ITH's problem is it is very seasonal traffic

Very, very seasonal. Most of it depends on when companies come to recruit and when Cornell students leave for their on-site job interviews. People who fly on their own dime usually don't pick ITH.

Quoting KITH (Reply 38):
try to find a roundtrip ITH-LGA that is under $500 anytime in advance.

Wow! No wonder the bus service to NY is so popular. In 2002 or so, I was able to get that flight for around $250. Do you know what has changed since then?
 
DFORD757
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:05 am

Last I heard too...ELM was going to get a new airline some time in the next few months. Any word on that. Also any word on how Pan Am is doing there. Either way you look at it...you have 3 regional airports within 40 miles of each other!
 
kith
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:37 am

Cornell's campus to campus service is really nice, at $125 R/T. 2x1 seating, leather seats, snacks in the back and free wifi on board. Not to mention it does the 4 hour drive in 4 hours flat usually. Worth it for Cornell to run given the unreliability of air service/cost. How did you find $200 R/T? I haven't seen that in years. ITH is always worth a check, I've found good fares to PBI/throughout the NE and its so much easier (show up 30minutes in advance, and they know your name!)
Anyone know why BGM/ELM can't support NYC service but ITH can? SYR price matches B6 on their LGA-SYR routes which is quite nice as its much better than JFK-SYR if you are coming from Manhattan and don't mind a SLAAB.
 
BatonOps
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:35 am

Quoting Dford757 (Reply 44):
ELM was going to get a new airline some time in the next few months.

I remember reading that online a few months ago. I wonder who it could be? UA to IAD?

Quoting Dford757 (Reply 44):
Any word on that. Also any word on how Pan Am is doing there

Pan Am is down to 2 JS31's to BED Monday - Friday. Not sure how they are doing but they seem to be reducing service instead of adding it. ELM use to have service to BWI, TTN, and HVN.

Quoting KITH (Reply 45):
Anyone know why BGM/ELM can't support NYC service but ITH can?

Good question. ITH has always had service to the big apple. As a kid I remember watching the Allegheny/USAir BAC 1-11's going to JFK and LGA.
 
teneriffe77
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:39 am

One of the differences between ITH and BGM is that BGM has better road access than ITH (81 and route 17 run right through it) so some in BGM is more likely to drive to NYC than someone in ITH. Also ITHs airport is located right off the main road into town if your coming from Cortland and Syracuse (it's just miles direct lien from the city center) while BGM's aiport is located on back road seven miles north of town which makes it more difficult to get to.
 
RobertS975
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:47 am

The folks in upstate NY must be longing for the days of Mohawk Airlines!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohawk_Airlines#Former_destinations
 
positiverate
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RE: DL Dropping BGM In September

Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 2):
It's hilarious (pardon the pun) that Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer suddenly put on their airline network planning hats and decided to dig into the numbers. Their forecasts are utterly fascinating! Really, senators?

Schumer called Jim Whitehurst when FL announced their SWF service, and asked Delta to NOT lower fares to match FL's fares, so that FL could have a chance to grow in the market and challeneg Delta. Apparently, Chuck has no concept of a free market.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 10):
Also, as far as air-savvy Senators, you can add Kit Bond from Missouri to that list.

And Johnny Isakson of Georgia....

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