PiedmontINT
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Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:43 pm

It seems there is a real animosity towards pax carrying everything they can onboard the aircraft as a carryon. I know it gets extremely annoying and frustrating when some idiot is trying to stuff a huge rollaboard into the overhead (especially on an RJ) but with the state of today's system of checking bags, can you blame them?

I have worked in MHK for a few months as gate agent/ticket agent/ramp agent/baggage agent and I certainly don't blame the pax for trying to avoid checking their bags and carry everything on board that they can. We deal with WAYYYY too many lost bags that get mishandled and misconnected and even though they may be on DL or AA or WN or anyone else on their flights all day, its always US's fault and I get the receiving end of angry pax who make it without their bags way too often.

Sorry for the rant, but the point is, with the baggage nightmare that is PHL and occasionally DEN at times, can you really blame the pax for not wanting to deal with the possibility of their stuff being lost?
 
BladeLWS
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:52 pm

If I had my way all checked bags would be scanned at the counter. Scanned when they are put on the cart, then scanned right before they go up the ramp into the plane. Would solve alot of problems about where bags are and if they are missing...
 
ikramerica
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:02 pm

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 1):
Scanned when they are put on the cart, then scanned right before they go up the ramp into the plane. Would solve alot of problems about where bags are and if they are missing...

If UPS and Fedex can do it with packages (scanning at every place it changes hands), don't see why airlines can't do it. Maybe they just don't want to do it...

Similar to my recent argument regarding overbooking flights. Maybe 10-20 years ago it made sense to overbook with CONFIRMED pax, but with today's technology, there is no reason for this system to remain other than airlines are permitted to continue to do it and they don't want to treat pax better...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
boeing743
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:14 pm

I sometimes hate when people carry their small suitcase aboard plane rather than check in. They sometimes would try to put suitcase in that small overhead and suitcase is too big . F/A would patience try to help them but hafl of time would say sorry have to check in the cargo and passengers would go off about thief, damage or whatever. I always has that worry but I has to be smart what to put in suitcase and what to leave at home. I think that CRS sometimes need to be harsh by saying sorry it is too big for overhead and need to be check in. It is very hard when plane is late arrive at some place and passengers need to make the connection but suitcase stuck in overhead always make people has to wait for it to come out. THAT woudl make a lot of unhappy passengers.  irked 
 
TSS
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:14 pm

I have a 22" rollaboard suiter for the overhead bin and a rolling tote for underneath the seat in front of me. Both meet the carry-on standard for all major US airlines, and I can fit everything I need for a week in the two of them. Why would I check them only to have to spend a minimum of half an hour at the baggage carousel waiting for them to appear...if they appear at all, that is.

That being said, I have zero tolerance for people who bring things on the plane as carry-on that exceed in size or number the standard set forth by the airlines. Why don't the gate agents stop them? Case in point: On my last flight, some idiot had shoved a HUGE guitar case in the overhead bin above my (empty) row of seats, effectively blocking all three slots...and the part that made me really see red was that the owner of this guitar case was seated nowhere near where he had put this oversized monstrosity. Grrrr!
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Analog
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 4):
the part that made me really see red was that the owner of this guitar case was seated nowhere near where he had put this oversized monstrosity. Grrrr!

Lost bag from the previous flight. Remove it and hand it to the FA for the lost and found (or leave it in the aisle).  devil 
 
LHRBlueSkies
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:29 pm

Airlines could easily make more effort with regards to ensuring bags travel on their correct flight, but you have to remember the human (I couldn't care less / not my job) factor of those involved in the loading process...not everywhere but the majority of places. There is a system being developed (maybe ready for release) that includes a micro electronic tag in the baggage label, so bags can be traced, located and loaded in case they get lost - but airlines don't want to spend the money on the infrastructure.

It also has to be said the US carry-on allowances are far higher than here in the UK/Europe...or certainly used to be. We get 1 pce and that's it, and certainly at LHR/LGW, the size allowed is very strict. We used to get a lot of US travellers transitting , going from a 744/777/D10 to a 737 or 320, and always the arguement was "but it fitted on the other a/c overhead!" Maybe, but do you really need 2/3 carry-on's plus your 3 checked bags for a 1 week vacation?!?!

It has to be said, that do you really need to take so much in the cabin, is your time that precious? Maybe what the world needs is to calm down a bit, relax, not rush around, so hey, check your bag in and wait by the reclaim....
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
tennis69
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:08 pm

I really like the pax that hit you in the head with their bags as they waddle down the aisle.
 
DesertAir
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:39 pm

I am a frequent flyer and never check my bag. When I purchased my roller board, I made sure it would fit in any standard overhead. I like the freedom of leaving the plane and being on my way without the wait for baggage. I do admit that some people have no clue as to how to manage their bags nor the correct size that fits.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:52 pm

Perhaps people take too much crap with them period? Do people really need to carry so much stuff, checked or otherwise? I can't count how many times I have seen a couple surrounded by a literal mountain of luggage at the counter....and four days later see them retrieving the same mountain of luggage at the claim carosel. Heck....if it weren't for my golf bag, I could carry everything I really need in a grocery sack.

We are a very self-absorbed people, and it shows on the cargo loadsheet and the cabin overheads.
 
davescj
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 4):
On my last flight, some idiot had shoved a HUGE guitar case in the overhead bin above my (empty) row of seats, effectively blocking all three slots...

Musical instruments are specifically allowed as carry on in most airlines in the US, or at least it would seem by practice. The reason is that the liability for lost instruments are too much to pay for.

As to the carry on, I carry on whenever I can. I simply don't trust that the carrier will get my baggage to me.

As to scanning, this has been discussed in tech ops. I'm sure someone with more tech ability can find it and post the link here.  Smile But to answer quickly, most airlines are moving to scanning. The problem is getting a massive number of bags moved quickly and correctly and not confusing 2 plane or 2 similar airports when the scanner doesn't work.
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TSS
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting Analog (Reply 5):
Lost bag from the previous flight. Remove it and hand it to the FA for the lost and found (or leave it in the aisle).

I seriously considered following both those courses of action, but one of the flight attendants read my mind and found an empty overhead bin further back for my bag before I could do so. If there had been one male F/A on that flight I might have done it anyway, but all three F/As were tiny and female and my Southern upbringing wouldn't let me make extra work for them.
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otnysaslhr
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:36 am

I am surprised that no-one has mentioned the safety aspect of restricting the size weight of handbaggage permitted on board. I, for one, certainly do not want a 15kg(33lb) bag flying around the cabin in the event of severe turbulence, I'm not sure I fancy the idea of a 5kg(11lb) bag hitting me.
If you look on the inside walls of the overhead bins I'm sure you'll find a notice stating the total maximum weight permitted in that bin - that is a structural limit. I'm sure that on many occasions that weight has been exceeded judging by what I've senn in go in them. In the event that the overhead bin fails as a result of severe turbulance I'm quite sure that any injured passenger would be only too eager to sue the airline/ manufacturer for damages, not really fair if it's been overloaded because a couple of passengers couldn't be bothered to check in their luggage and save a few minutes on arrival.
Also, if everyone on a flight decidesto take 2/3 handbags on board - it is quite likely that somebody will not be able to get their handbaggage in the overhead bins which will not only be inconvenient for him and his neighbours but would also provide the potential for an unrestrained missile in the event of turbulence to the hazard of all on board.
I've seen the results of luggage flying around the cabin as the result of severe turbulence - not a pretty sight!
In the UK only one piece is now permitted and has to be of a size to fit under the seat in front of you and - I think - a weight limit of 10kgs. Apart from the safety angle it also reduces the risk of something not permitted getting into the cabin
oTny
 
hamad
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:58 am

when i fly international, i am amazed how the american carriers are the ones who allow large sizes! i once flew on KLM. at the gate they were looking at every bag and telling you that you can't carry it on board. "but, i always use it when i travel, and never had to check it" , "sorry sir, this is KLM's policy". i might not have been happy about it, but if all american carriers did this, we won't see the drama that goes one before the door closes.
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xjramper
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 1):
If I had my way all checked bags would be scanned at the counter. Scanned when they are put on the cart, then scanned right before they go up the ramp into the plane. Would solve alot of problems about where bags are and if they are missing...

United Airlines scans bags once through security, upon entering the plane, upon unload, upon transfer, upon upload into the connecting flight, upon download from that connecting flight, upon scanning it into a back room or what not.

Northwest, IIRC scans bags as well, but I am not quite sure how they do it.

Honestly, IMO it comes down to the cost aspect. Airlines can forgo the cost of scanning bags because usually, I'll repeat, usually (not all the time) bags arrive on the next flight.

XJR
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deltairlines
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:25 am

Count me in as one against checking bags when I don't need to. Saves me time on both ends of the trip, as I don't need to get to the airport earlier to go to a ticket counter (can just do online checkin and go straight to security; saves about 5 minutes) and then at the end of the trip, I get off the plane and go straight for my car. Saves at least 15 minutes, sometimes more if baggage delivery is slow. This is part of the reason why elite status is very important to me - I'll be one of the first people to board the plane, meaning my luggage is in an overhead bin right above me; I don't need to go fighting upstream upon arrival to get my bag; just grab it right out of the overhead above me and move on.
 
An-225
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 1):
If I had my way all checked bags would be scanned at the counter. Scanned when they are put on the cart, then scanned right before they go up the ramp into the plane. Would solve alot of problems about where bags are and if they are missing...

Like BladeLWS mentioned above, we scan the bags upon loading, we scan them off of inbound flights, and now we are to scan them after putting them on a cart or makeup area - there are barcodes on the gate carts specifically for that purpose.

Also, we can check how many bags we are missing on the outbound flight and where they're coming from.


Alex.
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ikramerica
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting OtnySASLHR (Reply 12):
I, for one, certainly do not want a 15kg(33lb) bag flying around the cabin in the event of severe turbulence, I'm not sure I fancy the idea of a 5kg(11lb) bag hitting me.

Airlines don't change policy based on irrational fears. If they did that, they would stop flying since some people have an irrational fear of flying.

Quoting OtnySASLHR (Reply 12):
If you look on the inside walls of the overhead bins I'm sure you'll find a notice stating the total maximum weight permitted in that bin - that is a structural limit. I'm sure that on many occasions that weight has been exceeded judging by what I've senn in go in them. In the event that the overhead bin fails as a result of severe turbulance I'm quite sure that any injured passenger would be only too eager to sue the airline/ manufacturer for damages, not really fair if it's been overloaded because a couple of passengers couldn't be bothered to check in their luggage and save a few minutes on arrival.

And yet this has never happened that I know of, so you are exaggerating greatly. You don't know it's the structural limit that is posted, and in fact, I highly doubt it's the structural limit or anywhere close to it.

Again, irrational fears are the purview of a psychiatrist, not an aircraft engineer.  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
WJ
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:57 am

If I had my way all checked bags would be scanned at the counter. Scanned when they are put on the cart, then scanned right before they go up the ramp into the plane. Would solve alot of problems about where bags are and if they are missing...

Quoting XJRAmpeR (Reply 14):
United Airlines scans bags once through security, upon entering the plane, upon unload, upon transfer, upon upload into the connecting flight, upon download from that connecting flight, upon scanning it into a back room or what not.

Northwest, IIRC scans bags as well, but I am not quite sure how they do it.

And you would think that would help... More airlines do that as well but industry average is still about 7 bags lost/delayed for every thousand moved, which is pretty poor when you think about it as a full international 747 may have around 600 bags on it by itself. You have to look at it in a different manner. Airlines are in the business of moving people, not bags. Most airlines operate through hubs that allow minimum connecting times just enough for you to walk from one gate to the next, not as much regard to how long it takes to transfer a bag. Many airports have old and wore down belt systems which break down often, leading to dozens of missed bags at a time. Airlines don't view a bag going on a later flight as a big disaster, its inconvenient, but just a part of the game. Scanning the bags in the airline environment has not led to any substantial improvements in lost bag rates and in fact, WN and B6, which don't even interline, are not that much better at it than airlines that do.
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exFATboy
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:59 am

I have mixed feelings on this issue - I think the issue of lost bags is seriously overplayed by the media. It really doesn't happen that often, and most of the time the bag arrives on the next flight. Over the years, I've only been separated from my bags 3 times, and they've always been delivered within 24 hours. On the other hand, I can understand how 24 hours isn't acceptable for a business traveler who has to have suits and such for the next morning. And theft from bags has gotten worse in recent years.

Personally I prefer to check everything except a small backpack, just so I don't have to haul it around the airport. But sometimes, depending on where I'm travelling, I've recently switched to carrying on for shorter trips - at some airports, the wait for checked bags is ridiculous. EWR is a crap-shoot - I've had bags off 5 minutes after arriving at the carousel, and I've had it take almost an hour. AA at LGA is a joke - last trip it took 45 minutes for the damn bags to come off. LAS can be quite a wait too.

To me, though, the single biggest problem in the US is the loose definition of "personal item." For example, take a look at this Samsonite set:



They market this as a 2-piece set "for your carry-on needs." Now the rolling bag meets the overhead standards, and has a nice touch in that it can roll sideways down the aisle. But that second bag? The ad copy makes it appear that Samsonite (or eBags, whoever wrote it) considers that a "personal item." To me, it's far too big, at least if fully loaded as shown - it's a second bag, and if you turned up with both at the gate I'd make you gate-check one if I was the CSR.

The airlines need to agree on a maximum size for "personal items" and enforce it..."personal items" should fit under the seat in front of you. I understand the logic of allowing the second item - it's mainly so women's purses don't get counted as a "bag", which is fair, and to allow a small laptop case for accessability and convenience at Security. But too many passengers abuse the lack of a defined standard - I've seen businessmen argue that a very large aluminum case, which would not fit under the seat, was a "briefcase" and therefore a "personal item."

Besides defining the rule on "personal items" more clearly, it's mainly a matter of just enforcing the rules you already have - for example, a lap baby doesn't get a carry-on allotment. You have a diaper bag as well as a rollaboard each? Tough, check one. Of course, I have to admit I lean towards doing away with lap babies entirely - yes, I know the "then they'll drive, which is more dangerous..." argument, but a baby in a safety seat is both safer and more likely to sleep well, making the flight more comfortable for all concerned. (A comprimise would be for airlines to treat babies like "passengers of size" - you have to buy a ticket, but if the plane isn't 100% full you get the money back.)

Quoting OtnySASLHR (Reply 12):
If you look on the inside walls of the overhead bins I'm sure you'll find a notice stating the total maximum weight permitted in that bin - that is a structural limit.

In all my years of flying and following the industry, I have never heard of the overhead bin structure failing...maybe in the Aloha "can opener" incident, but other than that, never. I suspect that maximum weight sticker vastly understates the structural capacity of the bin. Sorry, but structural failure is a non-issue.

Having the doors pop open in turbulence IS an issue, though - but in cases like that its the loose items and small bags that fly out, not the larger rolling bags - the heavier stuff is more likely to stay in place. From a safety perspective, you could almost argue for a minimum weight for items in the overheads as well as a maximum.
 
fridgmus
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:19 am

Could one of you in the industry please tell me the "ideal" size for a carry-on? (if there is one that is!) One that would fit in all overhead bins and not hog all the inside space, with the exception of RJ's of course.

Thank you,

Marc
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LHRBlueSkies
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 17):
And yet this has never happened that I know of, so you are exaggerating greatly.

Ok, maybe he is a little, but you must admit there have been documented cases of overheads opening during turbulence, and bags falling down, so maybe that should justify the reduction in the allowed maximum weight of each piece, as well as the overhead manufacturers being able to develop a locking system that keeps the lockers closed upon the flight deck or cabin crew command. Not an impossibility, surely?

Quoting XJRAmpeR (Reply 14):
United Airlines scans bags once through security, upon entering the plane, upon unload, upon transfer, upon upload into the connecting flight, upon download from that connecting flight, upon scanning it into a back room or what not.

Really? Maybe this is a US only thing, 'cos it sure doesn't happen that way in the UK! Bags are scanned once they arrive into the baggage sorting area (either from the terminal or a connecting flight) and then it's off to the a/c. Bags that raise concern over where they came from are scanned again, as are bags taken from the gate room, but that's it.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 15):
I'll be one of the first people to board the plane

For this, should we read "I'm an Elite and I demand to get whatever I want!"? Does saving 15 minutes really make that big a difference to your life?

Personally, I think there should be an IATA standard for domestic and international flights, that way, wherever you go in the world you know exactly what is allowed.
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
flybyguy
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
If UPS and Fedex can do it with packages (scanning at every place it changes hands), don't see why airlines can't do it. Maybe they just don't want to do it...

You have way too much faith in the U.S. airline industry. I think it is probably THE most miserly industry in the world. Airlines in the U.S. only do anything about anything when forced... i.e. cargo hold smoke detectors, re-enforced cockpit doors... etc. As far as service related issues, Legacy carriers are notorious for only making improvements when someone else offers better service for less.

Quoting TSS (Reply 4):
Case in point: On my last flight, some idiot had shoved a HUGE guitar case in the overhead bin above my (empty) row of seats, effectively blocking all three slots...and the part that made me really see red was that the owner of this guitar case was seated nowhere near where he had put this oversized monstrosity. Grrrr!

Oh that drives me up the wall, on an AA flight from Barbados a few years back some guy with two kids had the nerve of filling the entire overhead area over my seat with all his crap most of which could have been crammed under the three seats he and his family occupied (of course he wants plenty of legroom at the expense of others) The flight was full so if I couldn't fit my Single rolling carry-on inside the cabin the airline would have to check it. That was NOT an option because the airline will not take responsibility for my laptop, camera, an d other electronics if they lost my bags or if their baggage handlers stole them. Let's just say that I convinced that arrogant twit to take one for the team... and problem solved.


Another annoying overhead bin incident was on a US Airways flight to Pittsburgh. I was the last one to board the plane (my actual flight got cancelled 45 minutes prior and I was re-booked on this one 20 min before departure). At the aircraft door I was told that there was no room for my SINGLE rolling suitcase and that I would have to gate check it! I grudgingly agreed (considering that my valuables were in there) only to see that a number of rolling carryons near my row weren't put in wheels first into the overhead bins, but crosswise! I got so angry I thought I was going to scream. I credit the lazy cabin crew for not making the smallest effort to accommodate 1 bag. To add insult to injury, they misplaced my bag only to find and deliver it a week later!

[Edited 2007-07-14 20:13:46]
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otnysaslhr
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:21 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 15):
Count me in as one against checking bags when I don't need to. Saves me time on both ends of the trip, as I don't need to get to the airport earlier to go to a ticket counter (can just do online checkin and go straight to security; saves about 5 minutes) and then at the end of the trip, I get off the plane and go straight for my car. Saves at least 15 minutes, sometimes more if baggage delivery is slow. This is part of the reason why elite status is very important to me - I'll be one of the first people to board the plane, meaning my luggage is in an overhead bin right above me; I don't need to go fighting upstream upon arrival to get my bag; just grab it right out of the overhead above me and move on.

I think that is a very selfish attitude.

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 19):
In all my years of flying and following the industry, I have never heard of the overhead bin structure failing...maybe in the Aloha "can opener" incident, but other than that, never. I suspect that maximum weight sticker vastly understates the structural capacity of the bin. Sorry, but structural failure is a non-issue

In my 45years working dispatch at LHR & LGW I can assure this is no exaggeration I can think of at least 2 cases where I've had to meet a flight that where overhead lockers had failed in flight and passengers injured.
Of course the max weight is understated just like the MTOW and MLW are as a safety feature,

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 17):
Airlines don't change policy based on irrational fears. If they did that, they would stop flying since some people have an irrational fear of flying.

I'm sorry, I don't see that I have requested airlines to change policy.
And in case you hadn't noticed people do tend to try and stuff the overhead bins so full that on occasions it necessary to remove items to get them to close and people still insist, inspite of crew instructions to the contrary, to place bottles in the overhead bins and when those fall out they hurt - I know from experience.

Quoting Fridgmus (Reply 20):
Could one of you in the industry please tell me the "ideal" size for a carry-on? (if there is one that is!) One that would fit in all overhead bins and not hog all the inside space, with the exception of RJ's of course.

The maximum dimensions would appear to be115cm or 48 inches - that is add length, width and depth together and the resulting total must not exceed those figures nor be heavier than 8kg (17lb)
oTny
 
Halophila
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:46 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 5):
Remove it and hand it to the FA for the lost and found (or leave it in the aisle).

 checkmark  Done that before. One person, two rows behind my seat, all the overhead bins full of stuff, so I couldn't put my laptop case up there. So I took down one of the cases, said "this is bulls&*t", set it down in the aisle, sat down and started reading. The owner came by a few seconds later and took the bag away, probably to put over someone else's seat. Closest thing to air rage I'd ever experienced, but that person was being very inconsiderate so just repaying the favor.

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 8):
I made sure it would fit in any standard overhead.

I'm curious if the calculations the airlines do to establish said standard overhead include an equal amount of space per passenger. It seems to me that if everyone had a standard overhead there wouldn't be sufficient space for them all to fit, but that's just my impression.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 10):
Musical instruments are specifically allowed as carry on in most airlines in the US, or at least it would seem by practice. The reason is that the liability for lost instruments are too much to pay for.

Ban them. Or make the owner by another seat.

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 22):

Oh that drives me up the wall, on an AA flight from Barbados a few years back some guy with two kids had the nerve of filling the entire overhead area over my seat with all his crap most of which could have been crammed under the three seats he and his family occupied (of course he wants plenty of legroom at the expense of others)

Happened to me more than once, unfortunately. It is more than inconsiderate.
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tmamtrak
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:20 am

What I could really like to know is where all these lost bags go. They don't just disintigrate, so why are so many bags never returned?
 
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JBo
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:38 am

I think the problem with creating a scanning system for baggage versus UPS and Fedex with cargo is that baggage is not consistent in shape, making any automated means of barcode reading difficult. If they would establish a requirement for everyone to carry the same style bag (say, the ubiquitous "22" style roller bag), it would be easier to implement a tracking system.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
LHFADUS
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:44 am

RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:55 am

as some guys already said, we over here in europe have different restrictions in terms of hand-luggage than in the U.S., leaving passengers coming from the other side of the atlantic angry at F/As of the airlines for not having "enough space" on their aircraft.

1. there are restrictions and rules in terms of pieces, size and weight which need to be followed, best is to inform yourself when you book. different countries/airlines, different regulations.

2. if the size of your handluggage allows it, do use the space under your frontseat.

3. remember that you are not alone on the plane, if everyone avoids bringing too much on board, everyone can benefit. less problems for the F/As, less problems for pax.

make sure to check-in early and organise your journey with enough transit. 45min connecting-time is not enough for your bloodpressure and certainly not enough for your samsonite.
 
Charles79
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:35 pm

RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:31 am

Almost everything has been already said but I'll add my 2.25 cents...considering the amount of bags handled daily the VAST majority make it to the destination in one piece. I've flown about 40 times over the last 3 years, checking bags in a third of those flights. My bags always arrive, and the wait for them at the final destination has never exceeded 30 minutes. I guess it comes down to:
a. the length of the trip
b. how much stuff you need to carry with you
I went to Germany earlier this summer for 15 days and I had one carry-on (a laptop case) and one checked bag. Trust me, as a gay man, I always want to take as many clothes/shoes as possible, yet everything fit in a regular size large bag. When I go on short business trips (3 days or less), I carry everything on board and its usually a small tote and my laptop case. Why people need to carry 2-3 times that much for similar trips I have no clue. Perhaps passengers should:
a. Start being more mindful about what is really needed on the trip vs what you want to bring
b. Realize that a CRJ won't accommodate as many carry-ons as an A332
c. If your stay is longer than a week, you'll probably need to check a bag; plan accordingly and be patient at the destination. 100 years ago the 5-hour LAX-JFk flight would have taken 5 days, so just relax a bit and don't in such a hurry.
d. Finally, be mindful of the other passengers! You are not the only person trying to go down the aisle, fit a carry on in the overhead bin, or have a comfortable flight. Flying should be a pleasant experience, why people always have to make it so complicated?

Again, my 2.25 cents!!

Charles
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting Davescj (Reply 10):
Quoting TSS (Reply 4):
On my last flight, some idiot had shoved a HUGE guitar case in the overhead bin above my (empty) row of seats, effectively blocking all three slots...

Musical instruments are specifically allowed as carry on in most airlines in the US, or at least it would seem by practice. The reason is that the liability for lost instruments are too much to pay for.

Not only loss, but damage. Musical instruments (particularly those made of wood) are delicate things, and the non-climate controlled cargo hold is not the place for them. My mother is a violinist, and never checks her case. It does fit easily in the overhead bin, though it only goes in lengthwise.

Quoting Halophila (Reply 24):
Ban them.

Impractical and unnecessary.

Quoting Halophila (Reply 24):
Or make the owner by another seat.

Cellists do buy an additional seat for their instruments, since they won't fit in the overheads.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Type-Rated
Posts: 3901
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 1999 5:18 am

RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:41 am

I love it when people carry on those roller bags. They seem to hit each and every aisle seat on the way in, and again on the way out. Thump, thump, thump........
Another observation. People who carry on these monstrosities like to put them in the very first overhead they come across, then take their assigned seats at the rear of the plane. Then the people up front have to put their carry ons at the rear of the aircraft. It makes deplaning more fun this way.
A lot of the people who insist on bringing roller bags on board usually have an overblown sense of self importance anyway!
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
tockeyhockey
Posts: 880
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:54 am

i would argue that carrying bags onto a flight actually costs everyone time. we have all been on flights where idiot passengers are trying to stuff their roll-aboards in places they do not fit, causing a long wait for the boarding process. since there are usually more than a dozen or so idiots per flight, that's a dozen delays, with the line of passengers waiting to get on the jet stretching back to the gate.

another favorite of mine is when people can't find a spot for their bag near their seat so they put it in the over-head twenty rows back. then they try to go back and get their bag by fighting through the aisles as we wait to deplane.

if no one carried anything on bigger than a woman's purse/laptop bag, we'd all go right to our seats and spend a heck of a lot less time boarding and deplaning.

it might cost those who refuse to check their baggage a few minutes on either end. but for those of us who check baggage every time, it would save us a ton of time and, more importantly, frustration.
 
MD-90
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:07 am

Quoting Davescj (Reply 10):

Musical instruments are specifically allowed as carry on in most airlines in the US, or at least it would seem by practice. The reason is that the liability for lost instruments are too much to pay for.

This concerns me.

The MSU Wind Ensemble is touring China next year, and tentatively we're scheduled to fly United from Memphis to Chicago to Beijing, and then reverse the itinerary on the way back. The only problem is that the flight from Memphis to Chicago is a CRJ-700. There's no way in hell that 45+ musicians are going to be able to fit their bags for two weeks AND instruments on the plane. We're even taking tubas (but not any big percussion equipment). Plus you've got euphoniums, French horns, trumpets, bassoons, and and saxophones. I'm a clarinetist, so I believe I can take my clarinet and a backpack on board without a problem, but I just don't think there's going to be enough room on that plane for all of our (and the other passenger's) stuff.
 
User avatar
ClassicLover
Posts: 3936
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:14 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
It seems there is a real animosity towards pax carrying everything they can onboard the aircraft as a carryon.

Yes.

In the olden days, the aircraft had hat racks. For your hat. Everything else went into the hold.

Now, as someone who has travelled around the world, through the US, Europe, Asia, and all around the place repeatedly - I don't see any reason to carry your entire life in a carry on bag. I've never ever had my luggage lost. I think too many people are paranoid, quite frankly.

My carry-on is small, has a book, usually any photos I am taking home, a camera, mobile phone, my itinerary, tickets, passport and a couple of other essential odds and ends. I like walking around the airport with a light bag on my shoulder and not hauling 10kgs of crap.

A friend of mine carries too much - extra clothes, extra underwear, tissues, all sorts of medical supplies -in case- she gets sick, plus everything else but the kitchen sink. I think it's idiocy.

Americans are lunatics for carry-on luggage - the same friend was greatly relieved when she realised she could have something like 12 or 15kgs of carry-on on Delta. I mean come on, who's taking the piss here?

I really don't get it. Carry-on = essentials for the flight and other "if my bag gets lost, what couldn't I do without" things. Everything else is for the hold.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
hamad
Posts: 731
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2000 6:29 am

RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:26 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 17):
And yet this has never happened that I know of, so you are exaggerating greatly. You don't know it's the structural limit that is posted, and in fact, I highly doubt it's the structural limit or anywhere close to it.

actually, it did. you might not have heard of it.

here is a story:

february 2006 i was returning from denver to phoenix on a ted flight. i was seated on 11A, while the passenger next to me was a dead heading flight attendant. she told me a story of a woman once who was so nervous about heavy bags in the over head. she asked her if everything ok, she told the flight attendant that she (the woman) was in an incident where the over head compartment failed and the bags were heavy. i wasn't sure if she said the incident was an accident or turbelance.
PHX - i miss spotting
 
planeguy727
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:49 am

I see a passenger/airline problem in this - US based peoples tend to not want to use the space under the seat - not that a persons feet would fit back under there or anything. And despite the nice requestes over the PA system during boarding I see people putting all bags (including tiny ones) & coats into the overhead first thing. If this is going to be a rule - it must be enforced - or eliminate the 2 item limit, put size restrictions in place and most everything will fit into the overhead.

The only time that much space is really needed is flying to/from winter climates where the bigger coats/hats could go overhead and the small personal carryon goes under the seat.

And I know that tall people complain about the space under the seat, but I have yet to see one be so bendy that s/he could get feet all the way under there.

I say all of this as a person who has a higher than average share of lost of delayed bags (nearly 1/3rd of the time I check bags). Some people have one of those days, I have one of those lives... But I do not think that Murphy being my buddy is the reason to try and be inconsiderate of others. Despite my 34 yrs of life, I remember fondly the days when travel was an enjoyable experience, lost or delayed bags were a minor issue and no one pitched a fit about finding space for all their crap in the aircraft cabin. Just trying to do my part to bring it back...
I want to live in an old and converted 727...
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 875
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:24 am

All I kinow, is when I travel, I carry on... when I travel for longer than I carry on, I pack what I need, and the rest goes into a checked bag... since I've had 10 lost bags in the past 12 months, seems like a resonable approach..
Why do I fly???
 
PacNWjet
Posts: 809
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RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:58 am

Some people are so obsessive about carrying everthing on the airplane so they don't have to wait at the baggage claim they go to ridiculous, self-defeating lengths to achieve their goal. Case in point: When regulations against bringing liquids on board U.S. aircraft went into effect, my wife's mother decided she would pack only the liquids allowed under the new regulations rather than putting her toiletries in a suitcase to be loaded as checked baggage. So when she travels all she has in her carry-on bag are those small three-ounce containers in a plastic bag. The problem is that she and her husband frequently go away for over a month, and obviously she can't pack enough toiletries in her carry-on bag to last her for the entire trip. When I asked her about this, she said she would go shopping for toiletries at her destination. So her logic is that instead of waiting for her suitcase at the baggage claim, she would rather go to her condo, get in a car, and then drive some distance to a store to buy toiletries she could have packed in checked baggage if only she was willing to wait for her bag at baggage claim. Obviously the shopping trip for toiletries at her destination takes far longer and involves much more of a logistical effort than waiting for her suitcase at the baggage claim, but she is so obsessive about getting off the airplane without having to wait at baggage claim that she goes to ridiculous and time-wasting means in furtherance of her obsesssion. I am too polite to point this out to her (she and her husband think my wife and I are utter fools for checking our suitcases and have told us as much).
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting Planeguy727 (Reply 35):
US based peoples tend to not want to use the space under the seat - not that a persons feet would fit back under there or anything

I have to dispute that it's a "US thing." Last month I flew LHR-WAW in BA's Club Europe, and my wife and I were amongst the last to board the plane, and there were all sorts of small bags in the overheads that we had issues finding space for the one 20" bag that needed to go overhead (my bag goes under the seat).

Given the BAA is only allowing a single bag per person...clearly most of these travellers (most of whom weren't from the US) put their bag overhead and not underneath the seat in front of them.

Steve
 
Baron52ta
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:52 am

RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:38 pm

Quoting BladeLWS (Reply 1):
If I had my way all checked bags would be scanned at the counter.

I don't know if you are aware that the situation is just stupid here in Britain now, BA alone from LHR has misdirected over 100k bags this year and now they are pushing to have all baggage travel separate from the pax(different flight). Recently bags bound for Canada were taken by truck to Italy from LHR. don't ask me why since it is the wrong direction for one and secondly why do they keep missing the flights. It seems they would rather pax think they are having a good flight than a good vacation. By the way I don't fly BA any more.
 
tennis69
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:00 pm

RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:30 pm

Checked baggage should be limited to pax that are moving. The policy should be no checked baggage if only going on holiday. Remember all hotels around the world will do your laundry. You don't need to travel with several changes of clothing per day.
 
FLY2LIM
Posts: 1095
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 6:01 am

RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:18 pm

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 3):
I sometimes hate when people carry their small suitcase aboard plane rather than check in. They sometimes would try to put suitcase in that small overhead and suitcase is too big



Quoting TSS (Reply 4):
I have a 22" rollaboard suiter for the overhead bin and a rolling tote for underneath the seat in front of me. Both meet the carry-on standard for all major US airlines, and I can fit everything I need for a week in the two of them. Why would I check them only to have to spend a minimum of half an hour at the baggage carousel waiting for them to appear...if they appear at all, that is.



Quoting Fridgmus (Reply 20):
Could one of you in the industry please tell me the "ideal" size for a carry-on? (if there is one that is!) One that would fit in all overhead bins and not hog all the inside space, with the exception of RJ's of course.



Quoting Halophila (Reply 24):
I'm curious if the calculations the airlines do to establish said standard overhead include an equal amount of space per passenger. It seems to me that if everyone had a standard overhead there wouldn't be sufficient space for them all to fit, but that's just my impression.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a fact that different airlines order different sizes of overhead compartments for their aircraft? Imagine if all aircraft came with overhead bins that shared exact dimensions. Luggage manufacturers could then produce luggage that fit well in each bin, and a lot of our troubles would be eliminated.

FLY2LIM
Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
 
silentbob
Posts: 1537
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:32 pm

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 22):
Another annoying overhead bin incident was on a US Airways flight to Pittsburgh. I was the last one to board the plane (my actual flight got cancelled 45 minutes prior and I was re-booked on this one 20 min before departure). At the aircraft door I was told that there was no room for my SINGLE rolling suitcase and that I would have to gate check it! I grudgingly agreed (considering that my valuables were in there) only to see that a number of rolling carryons near my row weren't put in wheels first into the overhead bins, but crosswise! I got so angry I thought I was going to scream. I credit the lazy cabin crew for not making the smallest effort to accommodate 1 bag. To add insult to injury, they misplaced my bag only to find and deliver it a week later!

They should never make it on to the plane with oversize bags but it's a very common situation in PIT. Overstuffed garment bag and 26" roller bag qualifies one bag and one personal item to some of the gate staff.

Quoting LHFADUS (Reply 27):
1. there are restrictions and rules in terms of pieces, size and weight which need to be followed, best is to inform yourself when you book. different countries/airlines, different regulations.

We have those restrictions too but we don't enforce them. Most airline employees just try to avoid having to deal with "assertive" passengers because that's a no-win situation.
 
durangomac
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:18 am

RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:48 pm

OK, as a previous ramp and counter agent for a regional and trust when I say this, if you're flying on a small plane like the Dash-8 or EMB-120, we rampers really like seeing the people who can get their baggage onboard with them as a carry-on. Weight and balance is nightmare some days and having all those extra bags (and small for that matter) since the Liquid bomb scare incident in London has us bumping people because of being overweight. I carry on my bags except if I'm on my way home and really don't care if my bags make it with me or not.

I'll also put it this way about lost baggage, if you look at the average of 7 bags per 1000 passengers, that is less than 1% if you consider that on average each passenger checks one piece of baggage which I know is actually a little conservative. I may be an optimist but that is darn good compared to some other industries. I actually wonder what the Postal Service, UPS, DHL or FedEx has as a rate. I bet it's about the same.
 
olle
Posts: 494
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:40 pm

When I travel in business I need to be able to change close even on a short trip. A missed bag even if its only takes 2-3 days is one disaster which means that I need to go an purchase instead of using the time for meetings. So after one bad experience I never check in the computer and always have setup of close and toothbrush etc in my hand luggage.
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: Pax Carrying Bags On Board, A Bad Thing?

Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 30):

A lot of the people who insist on bringing roller bags on board usually have an overblown sense of self importance anyway!

And a lot of those people are underwhelmed by airlines' ability to deliver bags reliably, quickly, and without damage or theft.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 33):
I've never ever had my luggage lost. I think too many people are paranoid, quite frankly.

You'll probably be paranoid too when an airline loses your bags on a Sunday evening flight before a Monday morning meeting, leaving you no time to replace what was lost. Or, like BA did to me, fail to deliver my bags and then have all the staff leave on the aircraft that I arrived in, forcing me to speak with an airport rep who spoke no English and could do nothing besides tell me to come back tomorrow (thus interrupting my trip). Or, if an airline does not deliver your bags and tells you the next flight is in 3 days...

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 33):

Americans are lunatics for carry-on luggage - the same friend was greatly relieved when she realised she could have something like 12 or 15kgs of carry-on on Delta. I mean come on, who's taking the piss here?

I really don't get it. Carry-on = essentials for the flight and other "if my bag gets lost, what couldn't I do without" things. Everything else is for the hold.

What about things that the airline tells you not to put in the hold: laptops (at least 4kg w/power supply), cameras (1-2kg), "valuables", etc. Those plus a bag (5 kg) are already almost 12kg. This is without clothing, toiletries, etc.

12-15kg seems perfectly reasonable.

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