A380fo
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New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:07 pm

The news around the airport and the area of the airport is that on Thursday of this week, LGB is going to have a bid for the 17 commuter slots. From what i hear, i guess for whoever is interested in the slots is going to put in for them and then LGB will select them. Hmmm any ideas on prospective airlines???
 
LAXintl
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:20 pm

Considering the many available commuter slots have gone for years without much use, I doubt there will be much of a rush this time around either.

 faint 
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Cactus742
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:16 pm

What are the restrictions on these slots? Are they bsaed on aircraft size? Are these slots that can be used for RJs?
Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive.
 
LAXintl
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:22 pm

In addition to the 41 mainline jet slots at LGB, the airport has 25 commuter slots restricted to aircraft less then 75,000lbs.

Currently of the 25 slots, 4 are used by Skywest/Delta, 3 by Horizon and 1 by America West/US Air.
The remaining 17 have been allocated to BAG Aviation holdings whom has been trying to get off the ground for well over a year know. The use or loose timeframe of these slots should have come up which is likely why these 17 slots will revert back to the City and available for reallocation to any other interested airlines.

Unlike the much coveted 41 jet slots, the commuter slots have always languished without much interest.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
BigGSFO
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:07 pm

Maybe Skywest/United will bid for LGB-SFO.
 
A380fo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:35 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
The remaining 17 have been allocated to BAG Aviation holdings whom has been trying to get off the ground for well over a year know. The use or loose timeframe of these slots should have come up which is likely why these 17 slots will revert back to the City and available for reallocation to any other interested airlines.

YUP..BAG couldnt follow through so on Thursday, the 17 slots are open! Any ideas on airlines or routes coming in?
And examples of aircraft that could use those slots
 
FATFlyer
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:20 am

The thing about these slots is the aircraft size limits reduce the pool of potential users.

Plus anyone using 17 slots, well that is a lot of frequency out of LGB to start with all at once. In my mind that would take multiple routes relying on likely only O&D to fill them.

QX already has a few slots they aren't using yet and I doubt they would apply for 17 more. UAX might take a few but not 17.

I heard an unconfirmed rumor that Vision Air had looked at using some slots at LGB for Vegas runs.

I also doubt XJet is ready to open another city at 17 flights a day. They probably would want to allow their existing network time to develop first.

I can't think of anyone else that I can see considering any of the commuter slots. There just aren't many regional sized operators in the west, remember it can be no larger than a Dash 8 or CR7.

Given that QX allowed their slot reservtion to expire then asked for 3 again makes me wonder something else.

It might be possible for BAG to rebid, thus extending their timeline.

Other than that the only choice for 17 commuter slots I can think of would be another startup.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
A380fo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:34 am

Yea all your information is true, and yea im not expecting any airline to come in at 17 flights a day. Im thinking a few.

My guesses are if these airlines were to come in what routes they would fly:

UAX--SFO and DEN runs?

QX--PDX?

XJET- FAT and GEG and COS

Vision--LAS

These are just guesses as i dont know if they would prfoitable for the company....

Are there any other airlines that may take interest in a few or any prospects besides QX, UAX, Vision and XE
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:09 am

Far-fetched thinking, I know, but wouldn't it be cool to see Cape Air come in and offer flights to Fresno, Berkeley, Monterey, etc. from LGB? With feed from JetBlue's marketing agreement, which could be expanded, the flights would be able to do well.

I know. Wishful thinking. But just a thought.

JetBluefan1
 
COERJ145
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 8):
Far-fetched thinking, I know, but wouldn't it be cool to see Cape Air come in and offer flights to Fresno, Berkeley, Monterey, etc. from LGB? With feed from JetBlue's marketing agreement, which could be expanded, the flights would be able to do well.

That would be awsome, especially if they got some used DH8s, BE1s or small turboprops(not the C402s), they could have quite a presence, i'm thinking PSP, MRY, FAT, etc.
 
A380fo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:26 pm

hmmm Cape Air?

any other regionals?
 
N1120A
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:22 pm

Quoting Cactus742 (Reply 2):
Are these slots that can be used for RJs?

Yes. Up to about the size of a CR7

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 4):
Maybe Skywest/United will bid for LGB-SFO.

Given that they have LGB bookended with a hub at LAX and a stronger, higher yield station at SNA, I don't see a reason

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 6):

I heard an unconfirmed rumor that Vision Air had looked at using some slots at LGB for Vegas runs.

Could they perhaps not even need a slot and slide in as an air taxi?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
wedgetail737
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:46 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 8):
Berkeley

Berkeley? Since when did Berkeley have an airport????

If Cape Air flew into LGB, I don't think you'll find C-402's flying that far in the first place. Maybe regionally to SBA, SAN, or even Catalina Island or Palmdale...but not Central CA.

Vision Air could have quite a use for LGB besides North Las Vegas...maybe Phoenix Williams Gateway, Laughlin or Mesa.

QX would be awesome, but I don't see anything out of them considering their presence at LAX, with the exception of PDX for connection traffic.

Just my opinions.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 12):
Berkeley? Since when did Berkeley have an airport????

LOL I don't know. I think I remember seeing it on one of US's really old route maps. Or maybe I'm just delusional.

OK, so scratch Berkeley. But PSP, MRY, FAT could all work out nicely.

On a completely unrelated note, did anyone notice how enormous the NYC-Santa Ana market is? It has 692 passengers daily and not a single airline flies it non-stop. Hmmmm.

JetBluefan1
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 13):
On a completely unrelated note, did anyone notice how enormous the NYC-Santa Ana market is? It has 692 passengers daily and not a single airline flies it non-stop

Continental flies EWR-SNA 3X a day actually

CO 287 EWR 845A SNA 1149A 737-700
CO 387 EWR 1205P SNA 251P 737-700
CO 787 EWR 505P SNA 814P 737-700
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jetbluefan1
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:11 am

Wow, I had no idea about that. Thanks for the heads up.

Maybe B6 should join the fray...

JetBluefan1
 
A380fo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:48 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):

thats weird. i know a lot of people who fly out of LGB that need to get to SFO. SO they have to fly B6 out to OAK then drive to SFO. I think its a really good, profitable market. my opinion! AND, what about the DEN market? With UAX????
 
thirteenright
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 15):
Maybe B6 should join the fray...

The A320 couldnt make SNA-JFK non stop on a regular basis.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:56 am

Quoting ThirteenRight (Reply 17):
The A320 couldnt make SNA-JFK non stop on a regular basis

That and I'm believe that SNA has slots, with it being in SoCal, I'd assume there are none left.
Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
 
A380fo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:29 am

Back onto LGB...lol....what are other regional operators in the west looking for new route?
 
rw717
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:39 am

could an E70 fly on one of these slots?
Reno Air - The Biggest Little Airline in the World
 
IFEMaster
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:50 am

Given the ridiculous traffic around here, how about:

LGB - LAX
LGB - ONT
LGB - SNA
LGB - BUR
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
pizzaandplanes
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 13):
It has 692 passengers daily and not a single airline flies it non-stop.

I'm just curious where you got that statistic. That would be cool if we could see other routes avg daily passengers. I remember a site that told you that sort of thing a few years ago but have since forgotten.
A real man lands where he wants to
 
A380fo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:55 am

So to kind of wrap up this thread. Can anyone give me a list of regional operators in the US that may come into LGB and what there routes would POSSIBLY be. Thnaks!
 
N1120A
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:50 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 13):

LOL I don't know. I think I remember seeing it on one of US's really old route maps. Or maybe I'm just delusional.

Who knows. Maybe PSA used to market OAK as Berkeley.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 12):

Vision Air could have quite a use for LGB besides North Las Vegas...maybe Phoenix Williams Gatewa

Why when there is already mainline service to the main, and far more central airports in those cities?

Quoting A380fo (Reply 16):
SO they have to fly B6 out to OAK then drive to SFO.

They can take BART, or they can drive the rather short drives to either SNA or LAX and simply set which one they fly out of to the time of day they are driving against traffic,

Quoting A380fo (Reply 16):

thats weird. i know a lot of people who fly out of LGB that need to get to SFO.

LGB isn't exactly the only airport in the Southland, particularly along the coast

Quoting A380fo (Reply 16):
AND, what about the DEN market? With UAX????

Same as SFO. You have a shuttle out of LAX and frequent service out of SNA

Quoting JerseyGuy (Reply 18):

That and I'm believe that SNA has slots

SNA is under slot control, though not nearly as tightly as LGB

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 21):
Given the ridiculous traffic around here, how about:

LGB - LAX
LGB - ONT
LGB - SNA
LGB - BUR

Cute, but you know that wouldn't make sense. Besides, from Long Beach, you can get to LAX and BUR using public transport if you really want to.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
A380fo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:07 pm

but what all of you are saying if u drive to lax or sna u can get there but a lot of people hate the traffic and dont wanna drive so lgb is way better for them!
 
elmothehobo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
Cute, but you know that wouldn't make sense. Besides, from Long Beach, you can get to LAX and BUR using public transport if you really want to.

You'd have to be insane, that would involve two connections to LAX and four to Burbank... They really need to get to work on a sensible transit system here.

As for who'll use the slots - no one.

There is no airline out there that has any real interest of flying anything smaller than mainline to Long Beach. If these 17 slots were mainline, JetBlue and Alaska would be clamoring for more, and I'd even wager that American would make an attempt at returning to Long Beach.

If JetBlue flew ERJ-170, these slots would have been claimed yesterday.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 26):
If JetBlue flew ERJ-170, these slots would have been claimed yesterday.

My thought is that through extensive bargaining, B6 will be able to get the airport to raise the weight of an airplane that is constituted as "commuter" to that of the weight of the E190. That would give B6 the ability to change its OAK, LAS, SMF and SLC flights to E190's. I could see 7x to OAK, 5x to LAS, 3x to SMF and 2x to SLC - an overall decrease in capacity on some of the routes, but it would also allow for greater yield. In turn, 12 (or 13, depending on the season) A320 slots could be freed, and B6 could continue its expansion at LGB.

Is this a somewhat likely scenario, or am I just dreaming?

JetBluefan1
 
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Revelation
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 27):
My thought is that through extensive bargaining, B6 will be able to get the airport to raise the weight of an airplane that is constituted as "commuter" to that of the weight of the E190.

Hmm the MTOW of the E190 is around 115,000 lbs, the limit is 75,000 - that's a big stretch, no?
Inspiration, move me brightly!
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 28):
Hmm the MTOW of the E190 is around 115,000 lbs, the limit is 75,000 - that's a big stretch, no?

It is. But who knows...maybe some sort of deal could be worked out. Maybe those 17 commuter slots at 75,000 lbs could be turned into 10 commuter slots at 120,000 lbs...or something like that.

JetBluefan1
 
B6WNQX
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 28):
Hmm the MTOW of the E190 is around 115,000 lbs, the limit is 75,000 - that's a big stretch, no?

What if they pushed to get the 170 certified? (the 170 standard version weighs in a hair over 78K lbs according to a.net) They could contract it out and have the 17 slots to run flights to both new and existing stations.

Maybe...
DEN x 3
AUS x 3
SMF x 4 (to release mainline slots)
PHX or TUS x 2
LAS x 1 or 2 (in addition to mainline)
PDX x 2
SEA x 2

With the release of mainline slots (2 or so from SMF) they could send those to MCO and maybe ORD (if they could get another time slot). There would be a fair amount of feed from the west coast to MCO that would allow more options when flying from the west coast. It would also reduce the overall burden on JFK while they are building their new digs as people could connect in LGB more instead of everyone connecting in JFK when traveling to BOS, IAD, MCO & FLL.

[Edited 2007-07-16 18:24:58]
 
travelin man
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting Pizzaandplanes (Reply 22):
I'm just curious where you got that statistic. That would be cool if we could see other routes avg daily passengers. I remember a site that told you that sort of thing a few years ago but have since forgotten.

Try faremeasure.com. They have stats for all airports (w/ avg daily passenger counts). It's a good resource if you're curious about these things.

http://www.faremeasure.com/Airport-Santa_Ana_California.html
 
A380fo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:04 am

So nobody would benefit from these openings?
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting A380fo (Reply 32):
So nobody would benefit from these openings?

The thing is that those openings had been in place for such a long time. Therefore, I don't see anyone jumping for these slots unless there's a catalyst.

For example, LGB sat wide open with 27 mainline slots pre-JetBlue. When JetBlue announced LGB as its left coast focus city in 2001, AS and AA threw a bitch fit complaining that it was unfair that JetBlue should get said slots.

The asset: 27 slots
The catalyst: JetBlue
The result: 22 slots to JetBlue, the rest to AS and AA.

There wasn't any demand for those slots prior to JetBlue. Then, three airlines miraculously decided to make a go for it.

JetBluefan1
 
hawaiian717
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:42 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 27):
My thought is that through extensive bargaining, B6 will be able to get the airport to raise the weight of an airplane that is constituted as "commuter" to that of the weight of the E190.

I don't see this happening. As these types of slot restrictions are no longer permitted by the FAA, LGB is worried that any kind of change to the slot rules could wind up eliminating the slot restrictions altogether.
 
A380fo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:06 pm

WELL now LGB is raising the costs of PFC's and stuff so some airlines there are sketchy about even STAYING
 
N1120A
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:18 pm

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 26):
that would involve two connections to LAX and four to Burbank...

Actually, it is only 3 to Burbank.

Quoting ElmoTheHobo (Reply 26):
They really need to get to work on a sensible transit system here.

Naturally.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 33):
The result: 22 slots to JetBlue, the rest to AS and AA.

Then again, any slots AA or AS don't use, including the ones AA had before jetBlue came in, go to jetBlue.

Quoting A380fo (Reply 35):
WELL now LGB is raising the costs of PFC's and stuff so some airlines there are sketchy about even STAYING

I really doubt that raising a fee that they can pass on to customers and will only cost $5 more per ticket will push the airlines out.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
socalatc
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:32 pm

The other problem with LGB is the lack of counter/break room space at the airport. Alaska/Horizon can not operate any more flights because they share a ticket counter with US airways, who also contracts to work the AS flights. If AS/QX added flights they would need their own personal in LGB and with no counter space or break room space that would be almost impossible.

I would love to see QX return to LGB. I think a couple PDX flights would do well, maybe even a BOI . However, I just do not think its going to happen.
 
A380fo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 37):
The other problem with LGB is the lack of counter/break room space at the airport

LGB IS already looking on that subject. I guess some plans have been made...We'll just have to see if anyone takes the slots.
 
sflaflight
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:00 am

Me likes the LGB, 9K idea. Welcome to JetBlue Connect West. Bring on the service.

Quoting A380fo (Reply 38):
Quoting Socalatc (Reply 37):
The other problem with LGB is the lack of counter/break room space at the airport

LGB IS already looking on that subject. I guess some plans have been made...We'll just have to see if anyone takes the slots.

Time to build a futuristic multi level check in lounge behind that facade. Combine the old with the new. In true Cali style, bring it on.
 
A380fo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:14 am

Let me know if anypne hears ANYTHING from the meeting today!!
 
socalatc
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:36 pm

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 39):
Time to build a futuristic multi level check in lounge behind that facade. Combine the old with the new. In true Cali style, bring it on.

Maybe just a few more trailers at the airport? It already looks like a Mobile home park  Wink
 
FATFlyer
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:48 am

So did anything happen at the airport commission last night?

I heard today that Vision Air is definitely interested in operating some flights out of LGB. Part of their interest is in EAS service to Visalia and Merced IF they got the EAS contract.

But I haven't heard if any slots were declared open at LGB OR if Vision bid on any slots at LGB.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
A380fo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:25 pm

i just heard from the airport manager.

drum roll..........


EXPRESSJET IS COMING INTO LGB...AS WELL AS VISION AIR! Big grin
 
FATFlyer
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:13 am

Doing some checking myself, I understand Vision Air wants to operate from LGB to VGT-North Las Vegas instead of LAS and IWA-Williams Gateway instead of PHX.

They are also considering a LGB to Visalia continuing to Merced flight if they get the EAS contract for those 2 cities. I have not heard of any other cities yet.

It has taken Vision years to get approval to operate as anything but a sightseeing operator. Hopefully this will work out for them. Scenic tried scheduled service and ended up going back to sightseeing flights.

ExpressJet is a surprise. Is it for DLConn replacing or supplementing Skywest or for the independent operation?

If the XJet operation they must be considering shuffling some aircraft off low performing routes fairly soon.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
A380fo
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:01 am

Yup its Xjet Branded service! Big grin
 
FATFlyer
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting A380fo (Reply 45):
Yup its Xjet Branded service!

So I wonder what current XJet city loses flights and where they will fly to from LGB.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
UN_B732
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:44 am

Could ExpressJet fly LAX-LGB for Delta or is it pointless?
-A
What now?
 
whatusaid
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:38 pm

I'd flown FAT-LGB on Allegiant during it's short run. Xjet would be welcome since we'll most likely never see SNA open up.... But, I won't hold my breath.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: New Info. On LGB Slots!

Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 13):
OK, so scratch Berkeley. But PSP, MRY, FAT could all work out nicely.

I think you were thinking of CCR (Concord, CA).

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 39):
Me likes the LGB, 9K idea. Welcome to JetBlue Connect West. Bring on the service.

I like the sounds of that too. Perhaps, they use something similar at OAK.

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