HALFA
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New Approach Into Honolulu

Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:10 am

I have flown two flights this week from SMF-HNL and on both days, we flew around the northern coast of O'ahu instead of the normal southeastern route. I've been flying with HA for 22 years and have made literally thousands of crossings between Hawaii and the Mainland U.S. and have only taken this approach into HNL once before in all of those years and now I've done it twice in one week. My Captain on the last flight told me we were being routed this way much more frequently, but he didn't know why. Do any of you know why? It seems to make sense as the normal routing has traffic in both directions as flights leaving HNL head SE along the coast of Waikiki before heading in a more northeasterly direction toward the US Mainland, while flights into HNL normally come in on a similar path but just a little further north right over Kailua/Waimanalo over the Koolau range and then head west before turning final back southeast towards HNL.
I've been enjoying the views of O'ahus north shore and Waimea Bay and Kaena Point. Places that I rarely get to see being from the other side of the island. If any of you are making trips to HNL soon, get a window seat on the left side of the plane. Views have been awesome!

Aloha,
HALFA
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SABE
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:11 am

Hi HALFA, that's very interesting... I'm attaching a pseudo-chart of the area made with Google Maps and the global AIS KMZ plug-in. So, it's something like a modified BOOKE8 STAR, starting in FUZZE? It's not showing up in AirNav yet...

I have thoroughly enjoyed the views out the window on my arrivals from the mainland and countless HNL-ITO hops  Smile

--Lucas

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ATS routes into HNL


http://www.globalais.net/dafifkml/

http://www.airnav.com/airport/PHNL
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kstatepilot
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:14 am

When I jump seated on NWA back in December, we flew along the north side of the island. Would've been a beautiful view from the cockpit, except it was dark out.
 
777fan
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:36 am

I've made West Coast-HNL trips probably more than 100 times and can't remember doing anything like that. Interesting. Traffic isn't really an issue there and weather - even when it is rough - never seemed to be cause enough to utilize that approach.


777fan
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kalakaua
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:48 am

That is interesting... What's the airspace around Dillingham Airfield like? I believed the skydiving and all that other fun stuff would have restricted the airspace. I also believe that's where the ANG F-15s practices. I always wanted to swing around Kaena Point.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
jsnww81
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:06 pm

I've landed at HNL dozens of times myself and I don't think I've ever come in along the north shore. I would love to see that approach though - for once it would make the left-hand view better than the right, although I'm sure the view of the Waianae range is nothing to sniff at either.
 
PanAm747
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:03 pm

Funny - I've had exactly the OPPOSITE experience as most people! Both times I've flown into HNL (April, 2000, UA DC-10, and August, 2005, UA 777), the approaches were identical - we flew west over the north shore of O'ahu, then a big sweeping left turn over the windward side of the island, and then another left turn to line up for 8R, the reef runway.

I always assumed this was standard procedure!!
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
N174UA
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:07 pm

Does this mean that we'll have several dozen threads featuring the HNL Rarebirds making this unique approach?

Sorry...couldn't resist...  Wink  stirthepot 
 
je89_w
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:55 pm

Quoting Kalakaua (Reply 4):
That is interesting... What's the airspace around Dillingham Airfield like? I believed the skydiving and all that other fun stuff would have restricted the airspace. I also believe that's where the ANG F-15s practices. I always wanted to swing around Kaena Point.

Yeah, the HANG F-15s often go out toward that area, pretty cool. Any GA aircraft with mode C can basically land there, so I don't think there's much of a restriction. On the side note, ever heard of the C-130 that landed there? Must have been quite a sight!

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
Funny - I've had exactly the OPPOSITE experience as most people! Both times I've flown into HNL (April, 2000, UA DC-10, and August, 2005, UA 777), the approaches were identical - we flew west over the north shore of O'ahu, then a big sweeping left turn over the windward side of the island, and then another left turn to line up for 8R, the reef runway.

Interesting. I've never been on this different routing to HNL. Are you sure you landed on the reef runway though? It's very very rare for any aircraft to land there (08R that is, not 26L).
 
PanAm747
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:57 am

Quote:
Are you sure you landed on the reef runway though? It's very very rare for any aircraft to land there (08R that is, not 26L).

I know it was one of the 8's...it could have been 8L...I do remember taxiing for AGES!!
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
geardown
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:33 am

I think this approach might be given if/when too many flights are arriving at the same time (inter-island+mainland) over the South shore and instead of asking the planes to slow down or to hold somewhere, ATC will route the mainland flights over the North shore?

It must not be done too often (unless you're flying with HALFA!) as you have to go through two special use airspace (W189 and W190) used by the military for training I think.

Chart here (It's a PDF file and loads slow.)
 
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aloha73g
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:23 am

Hi HALFA. I actually did that approach twice. The first time the captain said it was to avoid bad weather.

I must say though I was pretty surprised when I looked out the window and saw something different....I too had come to expect the "usual."

I do agree however that it seems to make more sense to go this way.

-Aloha!
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S12PPL
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting Je89_w (Reply 8):
Interesting. I've never been on this different routing to HNL. Are you sure you landed on the reef runway though? It's very very rare for any aircraft to land there (08R that is, not 26L).

Are you sure about that? Back in '96 when we flew PDX-HNL on HA, I'm pretty sure we landed on 8R. The flight FA was describing the scenery as we made our approach, and mentioned we would be landing on that runway...And like PanAm747 mentioned, we taxi'd for ages after we landed. Also, on our outbound to Kona later that day, we took off from 8R as well, and landed on 8R I'm pretty sure on our return to HNL for our flight back to the mainland.
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je89_w
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:21 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 9):
I know it was one of the 8's...it could have been 8L...I do remember taxiing for AGES!!

Then you might have very well landed on the reef runway! After landing on 08L, the taxi time would be very quick to the gates. That's interesting!

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 12):
Are you sure about that? Back in '96 when we flew PDX-HNL on HA, I'm pretty sure we landed on 8R. The flight FA was describing the scenery as we made our approach, and mentioned we would be landing on that runway...And like PanAm747 mentioned, we taxi'd for ages after we landed. Also, on our outbound to Kona later that day, we took off from 8R as well, and landed on 8R I'm pretty sure on our return to HNL for our flight back to the mainland.

That's also very interesting! You sure it wasn't 26L? Perhaps 08L and 04R might have been closed, giving you that unique experience. Generally 08R is used for takeoffs only and emergency landings. On Kona winds days, the reef runway (26L) is used for heavy landings and takeoffs. In the following photos, you can see the landing skid marks from aircraft on the 26L side, but none on the 08R side:


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Photo © Ilya rybchenko
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Photo © Roy



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Photo © Daniel Werner




And of course, from the ground (08L on left, 08R on right)

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Photo © Gabriel Savit - AirTeamImages
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Photo © Josh May

 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:39 am

Out of my 9 arrivals from the mainland into HNL, I've been on the North Shore approach once, back in 1999 on a good ole' AA 73 ORD-HNL, back when it was a DC-10.
 
SANFan
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:10 am

I was house-sitting last year for a month in Kailua and, although I didn't have my aircraft radio with me, I saw many, many mainland flights (overhead) descending and heading SW for HNL. I id'd many HA, some Coors cans (aka NW) and a UA or 2; I recall that most were seen between 11-ish and 2-ish but maybe that's mainly when I was at the house (and of course when a slew of HA arr from the west coast...)

When I flew on Pualani for that trip, I was in the middle section of seats and it was overcast for the whole descent until the turn over the ocean onto final approach into HNL so I'm not real sure how we approached Oahu.

bb
 
777fan
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:59 am

Ah, the good old days.

-777fan

From our old apartment (31st floor of Waterfront Towers):

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KC-10 Extender Trailing a USAF F-117 From HNL's 8R (reef runway) on 1/14/07



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Flyover HNL's 8R while approaching 4L from HA189 B717 (HNL-ITO) on 7/4/06



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View of entrance to Pearl Harbor from HA189 B717 (HNL-ITO) on 7/4/06
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B6FA4ever
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:24 pm

thats pretty interesting. i'm heading back home to HNL next week...and i'm sitting on the left side of the plane. hopefully i'll get that view of north shore side!

on another note...whenever i'm back there i go running/jogging on Lagoon Dr. of course great views (especially when the Asia bank of flights are departing) but anyways, i noticed that "heavies" were taking off on rwy 22L. i remember seeing a few HA's, DL, and even a NW 744. how rare/often is this runway used for take-offs? i know 4L/4R get used quite a bit but havn't seen it the other way around.

~B6FA4ever
 
ha763
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:29 pm

Quoting B6FA4ever (Reply 17):
i noticed that "heavies" were taking off on rwy 22L. i remember seeing a few HA's, DL, and even a NW 744. how rare/often is this runway used for take-offs?

It happens only during Kona winds. 4L/R and 22L/R are the runways that point most directly into the winds. Taking off from 22L sends you right over the water, so it is allowed. Take offs on 4R by commercial jets is normally not allowed as you fly over residential areas and straight into the Ko'olaus.
 
HAL
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:32 pm

In eight years of flying for Hawaiian, I've made the 'Booke' arrival (west side of Oahu) about two or three times a year. It's usually because of traffic conditions; too many flights arriving at once and ATC has to spread out the traffic. When you're coming from the west coast, going around the west side of the island is actually longer than the normal approach which flies near Koko head then over downtown and past Ewa beach before making a right turn back to the airport. Making the Booke arrival means adding four or five minutes to the flight, which is one reason most airlines don't automatically put it into the flight plan. The biggest problem with doing the Booke arrival is that part of it goes through a warning area offshore, and if there is any military activity in it (which happens a lot of the time), they won't route arriving aircraft over the north shore for arrival. So essentially, the Booke arrival is a fairly rare occurance, but it does happen.

And in those years, I have never made, or seen, an aircraft landing to the east on the reef runway (8R). Yes, I have landed there in Kona conditions (26L), but never to the east. Depending on where the parking spot is and how far the plane rolls out, you could take a very long time taxiing to your gate even from 8L, so it may seem you landed on the reef runway. 8R is strictly a departure runway unless some emergency exists, or all the other runways are closed for some reason. Even if 8L is closed, ATC will land you on 4R before attempting the reef runway.

HAL

[Edited 2007-07-23 07:33:39]
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n710ps
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RE: New Approach Into Honolulu

Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:35 pm

I need to get out theree sometime. That is one longhaul I would not mind suffering in the jumpseat for.
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