musapapaya
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:02 am

Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:52 am

Dear All,

My girlfriend's sister came from HKG to MAN via LHR earlier July and was supposed to connect onto the BA1386 on 3rd July 2007. The flight was cancelled, apparently due to aircraft shortages, and she is looking for ways to get compensation from them. However I did the online form for her just now and it says 'the flight was cancelled due to uncontrollable circumstances'. However the passenger was told it was due to aircraft shortage. Can anyone within BA shred any light about the real reason to me so that I can tell her?

The only thing she got at LHR is an additional 3.5 hours wait and some more delays, and arrived into MAN exhausted! Please comment on this so that I can tell her what to do.

Many thanks!
William
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
swiftski
Posts: 1837
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:50 pm

"Uncontrollable circumstances" can cause "aircraft shortage".
 
Jayhawk
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 6:32 am

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:17 pm

Compensation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! aaaaaaaagggghhhhhhhhhhhh

Your girlfriends sister got to her destination safely just a little late and for this you think compensation is due, give me a break.

Jayhawk
 
Lufthansa747
Posts: 2953
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 7:45 am

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:38 pm

Quoting Musapapaya (Thread starter):
so that I can tell her?

Tell her to get over it.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
LHR777
Posts: 645
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:14 pm

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:01 pm

Delays under five hours on a flight under 1500kms, = no compensation, because an alternative flight was provided, and taken.

You fail to mention that July 3rd was also the day of a mass security alert, closing Terminal 4 for over 5 hours. This created a situation whereby aircraft and crews were out of sequence (at all terminals), and in the wrong locations. This would have created an 'aircraft shortage' due to 'uncontrollable circumstances'.
 
b777a340fan
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:42 am

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:07 pm

Sorry to say, but your gf's sister won't be getting any compensation. And to tell you the truth, an extra 3.5 hours delay isn't much. I got stuck on the airplane for 4 hours at LHR due to weather conditions, at least she got to roam around the vast airport.
 
Feroze
Posts: 663
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:05 am

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:25 pm

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 4):
You fail to mention that July 3rd was also the day of a mass security alert, closing Terminal 4 for over 5 hours. This created a situation whereby aircraft and crews were out of sequence (at all terminals), and in the wrong locations. This would have created an 'aircraft shortage' due to 'uncontrollable circumstances'.

As LHR777 said above, 3rd July was chaos at LHR, esp T4. However, other terminals were affected.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6265674.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6259348.stm

As the delay was outside BA's control, no compensation will be payable.

For the record:

Quote:


If you turn up at the airport this summer to find your flight has been cancelled, you may well be entitled to compensation. EU air passenger rights, introduced in 2005, were designed to stop airlines cancelling flights and abandoning passengers without paying redress. They cover all flights that start or finish in the EU.
Passengers who are prevented from boarding because the flight is overbooked or cancelled are entitled to between £165 and £410 compensation, depending on the length of the flight.

Following a long delay (two hours for short flight, more for longer ones), the airline must offer refreshments. For longer delays of more than five hours, it must offer the use of a phone, plus a hotel room if appropriate. If you are not offered this, spend what you have to, keep the receipts and claim the money when you get home. You are also entitled to a refund on your ticket - if you don't fly.

Airlines do not have to pay compensation if a flight is cancelled for safety reasons, and some travellers have alleged that the true reason for the cancellation is not necessarily the one stated. Staff shortage is a safety issue, but it should have been foreseen, and a claim should be successful in that instance.

Another common complaint is made when an airline cancels a flight and puts passengers on to a later flight to a different airport. It is supposed to cover the cost of getting you back to the original destination if required, but passengers are rarely told this.

If you are wrongly denied compensation, the small claims court is by far the best option. Until more passengers take this route, airlines will doubtless continue to cancel flights in the knowledge that they will avoid most claims.

From: http://money.guardian.co.uk/consumernews/story/0,,2125933,00.html

[Edited 2007-07-17 12:29:01]
 
7LBAC111
Posts: 2427
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:17 am

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:15 pm

Quoting Musapapaya (Thread starter):
and she is looking for ways to get compensation from them.

What is it with the world's obsession with compensation....?

Or did I misunderstand? Was she traumatised by the experience? Did she suffer huge financial loss? Maybe you should both get a lawyer..... or a life.  sarcastic 


7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
musapapaya
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:02 am

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:12 pm

From http://www.britishairways.com/travel/euclaimnor/public/en_gb

Right to compensation for cancelled flights (not including long delays)
Where you are informed of a cancellation less than fourteen days before the planned departure date that arises from causes within the carrier's control (rather than extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided by all reasonable measures) you may claim compensation unless you are offered a re-route which allows departure and arrival at your final destination within the following times:

If you are informed of the cancellation between thirteen and seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing you to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled time of departure and to reach your final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival; or
If you are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing you to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach your final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.
The levels of compensation are specified as follows:

EUR 250 for flights of 1500 km or less
EUR 400 for flights within the EU of more than 1500 km and for all other flights between 1500km and 3500 km
EUR 600 for all other flights.
Compensation is reduced by 50% if any re-routing offered to your final destination results in a scheduled arrival time which does not exceed the scheduled arrival time of the original flight by:


Two hours for flights of 1500 km or less
Three hours for all flights within the EU of more than 1500 km and for all other flights between 1500km and 3500 km
Four hours for all other flights.
Please note that passengers are not entitled to compensation if they have been informed of a cancellation fourteen days or more before the planned departure date. Passengers will be informed of cancellations via the contact details given to the operating carrier with the booking by the passenger, the purchaser of the ticket or the travel agent.

***

It will be up to her to write to BA or not, I am just a mesegner in this case. Though it seems to me BA did tell a lie to her about the reason, and what time was T4 shut on that day? Shortly before noon, and her flight was cancelled early morning?
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:31 pm

Musapapaya,

I was also caught up in that mess that day (and the previous four days for what it is worth), as you can read on my trip report:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/104649/

Apart from the mess at T4 at LHR (which, you are right, it happened after noon and it might not have affected your GF's sister's flight), remember that GLA had shut down for a day a couple of days before, due to its terminal being attacked. This had left planes (and crews I assume) at the wrong place and at the wrong time. On top of that, there was bad weather over London that made things even worse. I would guess that the "shortage of aircraft" was due to the plane being stuck somewhere else.

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
musapapaya
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:02 am

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:36 pm

Thanks Tony! I will surely let her know, as I said, its always up to her to do whatever she feels right. Many thanks for all of you for your info!
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:41 pm

Your girlfriend travelled over 6,000 miles, halfway across the world, flying over about 10 countries and probably ten times as many different airspaces, and you are complaining that she was delayed 3.5 hours or more, and that was even after a security scare temporarily closed LHR and yet she still arrived safely, albeit late, at her destination? Well if she was travelling from London to Manchester on a train and suffered a 3.5 hour delay, or perhaps landed at LHR and BA could not offer her an onward connection to MAN, she might get a little sympathy from me but the circumstances you described are not even worth mentioning, let alone insisting on some compensation.

IMO EU compensation does not even come into the picture here. "Operational reasons" resulted in the cancellation of BA 1386 and the shortage of aircraft was temporary due to the security scare, not BA's fault. Aircraft would probably have been in the wrong place if a full schedule had been maintained, and BA obviously strived to operate as many scheduled services as possible. With a 4-6 hour closure of LHR, doubtless this would lead to some services being cancelled or merged to mitigate the knock-on effects.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
SNATH
Posts: 3049
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:23 am

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:01 pm

Quoting BCAL (Reply 11):
"Operational reasons" resulted in the cancellation of BA 1386 and the shortage of aircraft was temporary due to the security scare, not BA's fault.

Actually, this doesn't seem to be the case:

Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 8):
and what time was T4 shut on that day? Shortly before noon, and her flight was cancelled early morning?

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
musapapaya
Posts: 991
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:02 am

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:38 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 12):
Quoting BCAL (Reply 11):
"Operational reasons" resulted in the cancellation of BA 1386 and the shortage of aircraft was temporary due to the security scare, not BA's fault.

Actually, this doesn't seem to be the case:

Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 8):
and what time was T4 shut on that day? Shortly before noon, and her flight was cancelled early morning?


Tony

Well well well, my girlfriend's sister is likely to write to BA about this issue. Given all the trouble plus the poor handling at LHR, I think I will tend to support on what she thinks. I will let you guys know what happens if BA responses. Thanks again guys for all the input. I know it has been bad within UK on air transport, but things could always be done more professionally and curteously.

Thanks,

William
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
Shamrock_747
Posts: 1499
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:25 am

RE: Cancelled BA 1386 On 3rd July 2007

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:39 am

EU compensation is complicated subject - there are many situations in which passengers think a cancellation is within the airline's control, but in fact a number of factors could have contributed and the airline is not obliged to pay. BA have a specialist team familiar with the legislation who establish which cancelled flights are eligible, so as BA have declined the claim it is safe to say the passenger is not entitled to anything.

I realise this kind of thing can be confusing for the average passenger to understand. However the operation of an airline, particularly one the size of British Airways operating within the constraints of Heathrow, is very complex and is never too straightforward!

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