Humberside
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Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:55 am

Posted on pprune that bmi will start LHR-Cairo this winter, with an A320 in a similar style to DME. 50 minute turnaround in CAI apparently
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jimyvr
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Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:07 am

Although the flight is not on sale yet but it is loaded in the timetable.

http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/200...launch-cairo-from-winter-2007.html
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gkirk
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Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:20 am

Hmmm....BMI A320 vs BA 744 vs MS A330/B777...
Who will be the loser?  scratchchin 
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jimyvr
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Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 2):
Hmmm....BMI A320 vs BA 744 vs MS A330/B777...
Who will be the loser?

More likely it'll be aligned with the BMED product, hence the 320.
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cy319
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:02 am

I suspect TLV, ATH and IST to follow...
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ZuluTime
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:22 am

A320 versus 747-400 or 777 is not as important as timing of the flights. The BA and Egypt Air flights both depart LHR late in the afternoon and leave Cairo early in the morning. An alternative to that schedule is a welcome thing regardless of the aircraft type, especially if you have ever tried taxis in Cairo late at night.

The schedule does seem a bit odd - it looks an hour short which makes me wonder if it's real. 4h45 out and 5h10 back is about right; but that would mean 0905-1350, 1440-1950 utc and not 1850utc arrival back at Heathrow as shown in the link above. They've lost an hour somewhere.

[Edited 2007-07-17 00:25:36]

[Edited 2007-07-17 00:26:06]
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 2):
Hmmm....BMI A320 vs BA 744 vs MS A330/B777...
Who will be the loser?

Apart from the odd person on here I don't think anyone cares about aircraft type. Economy is economy. BA will have a better premium offering but it will be priced as such. The BD medium haul C class isn't at all bad anyway if the price is right.

This route will be competing for USA-CAI traffic as the LHR departure is timed nicely to connect with the early transatlantic arrivals at LHR and is an alternative for *A flyers to LH. Wouldn't be surprised to see UA codesharing on this and other BD medium haul routes out of LHR.
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BCA2005
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 5):
The schedule does seem a bit odd - it looks an hour short which makes me wonder if it's real. 4h45 out and 5h10 back is about right; but that would mean 0905-1350, 1440-1950 utc and not 1850utc arrival back at Heathrow as shown in the link above. They've lost an hour somewhere.

CAI is 2 hours ahead of LHR time, and therefore the schedule in the link makes complete sense.
 
steeler83
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 5):
A320 versus 747-400 or 777 is not as important as timing of the flights. The BA and Egypt Air flights both depart LHR late in the afternoon and leave Cairo early in the morning. An alternative to that schedule is a welcome thing regardless of the aircraft type, especially if you have ever tried taxis in Cairo late at night.

I agree that the aircraft type is not as important here. I am sure you would have a handfull of people fly LHR-Cairo at some alternative time to those available courtesy of BA et al... I think that the A320 is a wise move therefore...

Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 7):
CAI is 2 hours ahead of LHR time, and therefore the schedule in the link makes complete sense.

I was about to post something like this, but you beat me to it... Oh well...
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Vasu
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:19 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 2):
Who will be the loser? scratchchin

The most expensive one...

If BMI offer the lower price, people would rather fly BMI...
 
ZKOJH
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:05 am

could this be a sign of egyptair joining star alliance?
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ZuluTime
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:13 pm

The schedule still doesn't make sense.

I agree that Cairo is two hours ahead of UK time.

This means that the outward schedule is:
LHR 0905 - 1550 CAI local time (LHR 0905 - 1350 CAI in UTC)
Block time of 4 hours 45 minutes from LHR to CAI - that's fine

On the return, the schedule is:
CAI 1640 - 1850 LHR local time (CAI 1440 - 1850 LHR in UTC)
Block time of 4 hours 10 minutes.

You normally have a headwind on the return leg. BA's winter schedule with a 744 is 4 hours 45 minutes LHR-CAI and 5 hours 15 minutes CAI-LHR. Egyptair schedule 4 hours 45 minutes LHR-CAI and 5 hours 20 minutes CAI-LHR. How can bmi do Cairo-Heathrow in 4 hours 10 when it takes both BA and EgyptAir more than 5 hours? That's where the missing hour is!
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting CY319 (Reply 4):
I suspect TLV, ATH and IST to follow...

Can see IST and ATH, but TLV...? With the plethora of widebodies on the route, surely BD would be squeezed out of this market on price vs capacity alone? Unless of course, they operate a widebody themselves? Hmm... probably not.

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 6):
Apart from the odd person on here I don't think anyone cares about aircraft type.

I think GKirk was making the point on capacity as opposed to preference. If you have the potential to sell a lot of seats cheaply, in order to make a competing carrier less attractive (by price), then you're going to do that. If BD do go for the A320 on this, watch the short term lead in pricing on BA plummet.

Of course, if MS are part of this deal, then it may be more sustainable.

7L
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UAL777UK
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:39 pm

Quoting Zkojh (Reply 10):
could this be a sign of egyptair joining star alliance?

Hope so. Dont they have close ties with LH on code shares or similar?

Good on BD, the more routes out of LHR the better so far as I am concerned and I for one dont care what aircraft it operates, *A I am sure will be able to put quite a few bums on seats with connecting passengers through LHR.
 
britannia191a
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:12 pm

Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 11):
That's where the missing hour is!

Maybe someone in Admin has made a typo error by 1hr.

Quoting Vasu (Reply 9):
If BMI offer the lower price, people would rather fly BMI

Its not always about price. It depends on the service and how comfortable someone is flying the airline or beit the aircraft too. As an example when I look for flights to Malaga, I will check the airline i prefer to fly with due to service and aircraft 1st. I will then compare with the 2nd next airline and then the 3rd. If there isnt much difference between 1 and 3 then I will rather pay extra to fly airline 1 as I will feel happier about the whole experience.

A good example is Flyglobespan LPL - JFK. Due to what I have heard 1st hand about their flights, performance and quality, even though they are cheaper then say BA , DL or CO, i would fly the last 3 from MAN as I have a much better chance of a good and reliable flight
 
BCA2005
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 6):
Economy is economy. BA will have a better premium offering but it will be priced as such. The BD medium haul C class isn't at all bad anyway if the price is right.

Does BD Economy have PTV's? I know it's a short flight, but just interested to know.
 
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Vasu
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:46 am

Do BMED have proper BA World Traveller cabins (complete with PTV) at the moment? If so, BMI will be inheriting the PTVs...
 
flytuitravel
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting Vasu (Reply 16):
Do BMED have proper BA World Traveller cabins (complete with PTV) at the moment? If so, BMI will be inheriting the PTVs...

I know they had them in Club World (is that what it's called on Bmed?).. Not sure about World Traveller.


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ManchesterMAN
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting BCA2005 (Reply 15):
Does BD Economy have PTV's? I know it's a short flight, but just interested to know.

BD A330s have PTVs, the "normal" A320s just have flip down screens every few rows (but no audio sockets!) , and the A319s have nothing. The A320 which operates to DME, which I expect will be the same config as used for CAI has flip down screens and has audio so you can hear what you see on them (what a great idea!)

BMED A32X aircraft do not have PTVs but rather the aforementioned flip down screens.

I would much prefer aircraft without the TVs anyway as those bloody boxes get in the way of legroom. If only every carrier was like AC and put the equipment under the floor (but then that is another thread completely.)
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BMED
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:47 am

I guess that if its a BMED aircraft being used then the cabin will be better standard wise than the BD ones. I guess that if the amount of pax is good then maybe one of the new A321's will go onto the route?
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BCAL
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 12):
Quoting CY319 (Reply 4):
I suspect TLV, ATH and IST to follow...

Can see IST and ATH

There are currently six flights daily in both directions LHR-IST and LHR-ATH. BA offers three daily rotations, and they have established themselves on both routes, and both Turkish and Olympic have three daily rotations from their respective hubs. I would think that BD would have to match their frequencies if the routes were to be a success for them.
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UAL777UK
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:19 am

Arnt Turkish going to join *A. Would there be a need therfore for BD to open that route up?
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting BCAL (Reply 20):
Olympic have three daily rotations from their respective hubs.

Thats trues yes, though who is to say Olympic will be around for the forseeable. Maybe BD will operate this route in a fashion similar to the DME and CAI services....?

Quoting BCAL (Reply 20):
I would think that BD would have to match their frequencies if the routes were to be a success for them.

Yeah totally agree on that.

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bastew
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:23 pm

Quoting ZuluTime (Reply 11):
The schedule still doesn't make sense.

I agree that Cairo is two hours ahead of UK time.

This means that the outward schedule is:
LHR 0905 - 1550 CAI local time (LHR 0905 - 1350 CAI in UTC)
Block time of 4 hours 45 minutes from LHR to CAI - that's fine

On the return, the schedule is:
CAI 1640 - 1850 LHR local time (CAI 1440 - 1850 LHR in UTC)
Block time of 4 hours 10 minutes.

You normally have a headwind on the return leg. BA's winter schedule with a 744 is 4 hours 45 minutes LHR-CAI and 5 hours 15 minutes CAI-LHR. Egyptair schedule 4 hours 45 minutes LHR-CAI and 5 hours 20 minutes CAI-LHR. How can bmi do Cairo-Heathrow in 4 hours 10 when it takes both BA and EgyptAir more than 5 hours? That's where the missing hour is!

I reckon BMI will want to keep their costs on the route as low as possible. One way of doing this is to roster the crew to operate the outbound and return sectors in one duty instead of spending the night in CAI as the BA crew do. To be able to operate the return duty will be tight in terms of maximum duty hours, thus bmi will want to make the turnaround on the ground and the flight times appear as quick as possible.

The timings are not great for transatantic connections either. Admittedly, the LHR-CAI flight will offer good connections from inbound north american flights, but passengers will have more difficulty connecting back to the US on the return sector.
 
Sketty222
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 6):
The BD medium haul C class isn't at all bad anyway if the price is right.



Quoting Vasu (Reply 9):
Quoting Gkirk (Reply 2):
Who will be the loser? scratchchin

The most expensive one...

If BMI offer the lower price, people would rather fly BMI...

Just had a look at the fares table in Amadeus and both BA and BD are priced the same for a flexible J ticket
I know who I would rather fly with......I'll give you a clue.... they've got a flat bed  Wink

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Humberside
Topic Author
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:51 am

Any other changes to former BMed routes?
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lapper
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 25):
Any other changes to former BMed routes?

AMM and BEY upped to daily, Alexandria dropped as a result of CAI.
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 24):
Just had a look at the fares table in Amadeus and both BA and BD are priced the same for a flexible J ticket
I know who I would rather fly with......I'll give you a clue.... they've got a flat bed

Well anyone would fly BA if the price was the same. However I would expect BD to offer plenty of deeply discounted biz class tickets on the route.
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ETStar
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:55 am

So with Alexandria cut, I wonder how the service to Addis Ababa will be affected ...
 
HUYfan
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RE: Bmi To Launch LHR-Cairo

Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:04 pm

ManchesterMAN, actually, G-MEDK/L/M all have PTVs in World Traveller as well as Club.

Regards

Mike