asuflyer05
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MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:57 am

"WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--MAXjet Airways, the award-winning low-fare all Business Class airline, has applied on July 16, 2007 for U.S. authority to operate nonstop passenger service between Shanghai, China and Seattle/Tacoma International Airport, with continuing same-plane service to Los Angeles. MAXjet proposes to operate this service daily effective March 25, 2009.

MAXjet's proposed service to China would be its first transpacific route. MAXjet would operate the proposed service with Boeing 767-200ER aircraft already in its fleet. These aircraft are configured with 92 Business Class seats, crew rest facilities and extra lavatories for long-haul flying. There are no Economy Class seats on the aircraft."


MAXjet Applies For Nonstop Seattle-Shanghai Service For 2009
 
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drerx7
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:07 am

I wonder if and at what price they will market SEA-LAX - since they are a US carrier.
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ikramerica
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:16 am

Good luck with that. The would be a political nightmare, offering a limited slot authority to an "elite only" airline, at least that's how the majors can paint it to the public....
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Stitch
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Good luck with that. The would be a political nightmare, offering a limited slot authority to an "elite only" airline, at least that's how the majors can paint it to the public....

Aye. UA and NW (especially) will fight that one tooth and nail.

SEA is far more likely to get China service from Chinese flag carriers, who have multiple unused slots available to them.
 
717-200
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 1):
wonder if and at what price they will market SEA-LAX - since they are a US carrier

I would fly on a biz class configed 762ER to or from LA hands down over a cramped AS 739 anyday!
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LN-MOW
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:02 am

They'll never get it due to the limited market offer, but it's good PR. I'd be very, very surprised if they get it - and so would MaxJet.
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aa61hvy
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:05 am

What kind of prices does Maxjet offer?
Go big or go home
 
United777
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:06 am

This is a surprise!! I wish NW appled for SEA to China. I think Seattle needs a link to China and is the most underserved airport for Asian routes. I know many people working with IT companies around the northwest who travel to China often from Seattle and need to transfer in Tokyo or Seoul and would love to just fly non-stop.

If SEA doesn't get a link to Shanghai it at least for needs a link to Hong Kong.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:17 am

wow, a real surprise, IMHO, I dont think for one minute they have a cat in hells chance of getting it but kudos to them for applying
 
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keesje
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:49 am

I liked Maxjet´s strategy from the start.

Relatively cheap aircraft, acceptable business class (60 inch) with all the basics ok for economy+ fares..

Curious what a no-nonsense business class will do against JAL, CX, SQ and China Southern..
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ikramerica
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:58 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
Curious what a no-nonsense business class will do against JAL, CX, SQ and China Southern..

They could fly to NRT now and we could find out...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
thirteenright
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:30 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
I liked Maxjet´s strategy from the start.

Relatively cheap aircraft, acceptable business class (60 inch) with all the basics ok for economy+ fares..

Curious what a no-nonsense business class will do against JAL, CX, SQ and China Southern..

I do too, but I wish MY had aircraft that were reliable.
 
jetboy319
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:01 pm

The only reason i can see a stop at SEA before the onward journey to PVG is because the 762 probably couldn't do LAX-PVG non-stop. I would be more than surprised if they were awarded the slot. My 2 cents
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WJ
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:54 pm

Maxjet really needs to start worrying about their existing service which they cancel left and right on a regular basis, before trying to venture out into something they have no shot in getting.
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N1120A
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:27 pm

Quoting Jetboy319 (Reply 12):
The only reason i can see a stop at SEA before the onward journey to PVG is because the 762 probably couldn't do LAX-PVG non-stop

Unless their models are lower gross weight, the aircraft can do the route, particularly in MaxJet's configuration
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flyingdoctorwu
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:40 am

It would be great to see SEA have non-stop service to China. though, we do have convenient connections to all of asia vie either NRT, TPE, or ICN....
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting FlyingDoctorWu (Reply 15):
we do have convenient connections to all of asia

Won't help unless Maxjet establishes some interline agreements ....  wink 
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ba319-131
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 8):
wow, a real surprise, IMHO, I dont think for one minute they have a cat in hells chance of getting it but kudos to them for applying

- Agreed!

Well done, whilst unlikely to get awarded the route, it shows forward thinking and I'm sure if they did get it would put the cat among the pigeons!

M
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jetboy319
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Unless their models are lower gross weight

Which I assume they are. With a 767-200 seating around 100 pax, it wouldn't have made sense for them to purchase a high operating weight certificate for their planes. IMHO, SEA would be included in the LAX-PVG route as a fuel stop.
 
Flighty
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Jetboy319 (Reply 18):
IMHO, SEA would be included in the LAX-PVG route as a fuel stop.

You don't think SEA has a huge amount J class demand to Shanghai? I do.

But I agree, their jets may not be able to fly LAX-PVG, although it is hard to say. Very light payload.

[Edited 2007-07-18 22:31:15]
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:38 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 19):
You don't think SEA has a huge amount J class demand to Shanghai? I do.

I would like to see MaxJet fly this route, I think that by being the first airline of their kind, that they will find a way. Also the China market for Vancouver and western Canada is projected to increase at a healthy rate over the next 10 years. Since MaxJet is out to sell reduced Biz Class fares, they will do well. The problems they are facing is because they are still a small airline.
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WAH64D
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:49 am

Aren't they also offering 4x weekly STN-LAX from next month?
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N1120A
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting Jetboy319 (Reply 18):
With a 767-200

These are 767-200ERs. Big difference.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting United777 (Reply 7):
I think Seattle needs a link to China and is the most underserved airport for Asian routes.

...about 400 other airports just laughed at you, uncontrollably.
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LN-MOW
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting Jetboy319 (Reply 18):
IMHO, SEA would be included in the LAX-PVG route as a fuel stop.

STN (51°53'06"N 00°14'06"E) LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'26"W) 312° (NW) 5459 mi
SEA (47°26'56"N 122°18'34"W) PVG (31°08'36"N 121°48'19"E) 309° (NW) 5722 mi
LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'26"W) PVG (31°08'36"N 121°48'19"E) 311° (NW) 6485 mi


max range for 767-200ER .. fully loaded .. 7618 mi .. with 100 pax? A lot more.
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WAH64D
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 24):
STN (51°53'06"N 00°14'06"E) LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'26"W) 312° (NW) 5459 mi
SEA (47°26'56"N 122°18'34"W) PVG (31°08'36"N 121°48'19"E) 309° (NW) 5722 mi
LAX (33°56'33"N 118°24'26"W) PVG (31°08'36"N 121°48'19"E) 311° (NW) 6485 mi


max range for 767-200ER .. fully loaded .. 7618 mi .. with 100 pax? A lot more.

A good analysis but keep in mind that although the aircraft is unlikely to be limited by MTOW it will be limited by the physical amount of fuel it is able to carry. The difference in fuel burn on a B762ER between a 1 class 100J aircraft and a 2 class 18J/198+Y aircraft is not as much as you might think. The weight of the 82J seats and the extra lavs and galleys is quite considerable. The B762ERs range in an optimum configuration is 6590nm with CF6-80C2B4F powerplants according to Boeing's website. It is the only aircraft in the B767 family with the legs to do LAX-PVG without a stop although that is configuration and headwind dependant..

It is possible to do LAX-PVG on B762ER but as I said, its config dependant and by no means certain especially with a strong headwind. It would appear that SEA has been thrown in there to guarantee year-round operablility of the route without relying on re-clearance in flight or en-route alternates. There should be no regulatory problems as long as MaxJet don't sell LAX-SEA and vice-versa. That does not stop them from loading pax at both though.

[Edited 2007-07-19 01:04:39]

[Edited 2007-07-19 01:13:14]
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jetboy319
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:51 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 19):
You don't think SEA has a huge amount J class demand to Shanghai?

I never said that. While I don't know the exact numbers, I would agree there is a considerable demand for J class to Shanghai. That's why SEA would be an excellent place for a stop. If MaxJet could fly their 762ERs nonstop from LAX to PVG I doubt SEA would have been included. Like WAH63D mentioned, it really depends on how the aircraft is configured.
Cheers!
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:43 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 25):
There should be no regulatory problems as long as MaxJet don't sell LAX-SEA and vice-versa

They better press to get approval to be able to sell tickets for just the LAX-SEA leg, it would make better sense financially.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
WAH64D
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:12 am

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 27):
They better press to get approval to be able to sell tickets for just the LAX-SEA leg, it would make better sense financially.

If you think about it, it makes less sense financially. This suggests to me that LAX-SEA service is a secondary consideration. The fuel stop and ability to fly from SEA non-stop all year round is the primary concern. I don't think they want to sell LAX-SEA, all the profit is in seats sold from LAX/SEA to PVG.

Can you imagine how profit-negative it would be if you sold the last 10 seats out of LAX to customers only travelling to SEA and then the next day somebody wants to book seats on the same flight for LAX-PVG and you end up with 10 empty seats on the SEA-PVG sector that could have been sold to passengers from LAX flying both sectors?

In the grand scheme of things, I think it is in MaxJet's best interests not to sell seats between LAX and SEA.
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Flighty
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 28):

In the grand scheme of things, I think it is in MaxJet's best interests not to sell seats between LAX and SEA.

There are ways to handle this issue. Major airlines do it all the time. Money is money. They will sell LAX-SEA if they are confident it will not hurt their revenue on a flight -- for example if they project 35 open seats LAX-SEA on a given date.

LAX-SEA won't be full ever. After all, SEA is where the nonstop flight to China begins!

LAX already has nonstops to Shanghai. SEA does not. The big news here is SEA-Shanghai, not LAX. LAX is sub-premium service since it is hours slower than the competition, perhaps UA doing a nonstop in theory.
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:13 pm

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 28):
all the profit is in seats sold from LAX/SEA to PVG.

If the flight from LAX-SEA isn't full with people going onto PVG, that is lost revenue. They could very easliy have sold tickets for people who just wanted to fly LAX-SEA. They could hold out the LAX-SEA tickets until the last two days. It's better to fill the plane, than fly it 1/2 full.
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N1120A
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:16 pm

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 25):
The B762ERs range in an optimum configuration is 6590nm with CF6-80C2B4F powerplants according to Boeing's website. It is the only aircraft in the B767 family with the legs to do LAX-PVG without a stop although that is configuration and headwind dependant..

Also according to Boeing, JFK-PEK is considered a typical city pair, which factors in for headwinds and configuration. That is longer than LAX-PVG

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 25):
There should be no regulatory problems as long as MaxJet don't sell LAX-SEA and vice-versa.



Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 27):

They better press to get approval to be able to sell tickets for just the LAX-SEA leg, it would make better sense financially.

They don't need regulatory approval to fly LAX-SEA. They are a US airline.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
WAH64D
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:48 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
They don't need regulatory approval to fly LAX-SEA. They are a US airline.

Isn't there an issue with slots out of LAX for domestic flights though?

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 30):
If the flight from LAX-SEA isn't full with people going onto PVG, that is lost revenue. They could very easliy have sold tickets for people who just wanted to fly LAX-SEA. They could hold out the LAX-SEA tickets until the last two days. It's better to fill the plane, than fly it 1/2 full.

Its definitely better to fill the plane. Its just a careful juggling act based on perceived loads LAX-PVG. It wouldn't really be practical to restrict domestic availability to 48hrs before departure. You could sell tickets for the domestic leg on a standby basis only but most J class pax wouldn't want the uncertainty. I don't know of many carriers operating routes with a stop inside the home country, its common the other way round but tickets are not generally sold between the two foreign locations. LH and BA are good examples of this.

My personal opinion is that LAX-SEA has plenty of capacity as is. MaxJet may be making use of an arrival to LAX to provide the outbound aircraft and don't want to ferry it to SEA. LAX has direct flights to PVG but its marginal in the B762ER without a stop and SEA has nothing direct to PVG at the present time.
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N1120A
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RE: MaxJet Applies For LAX-SEA-PVG

Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:49 pm

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 32):

Isn't there an issue with slots out of LAX for domestic flights though?

No. There are absolutely no slot controls at LAX.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss

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