GeorgeJetson
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Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:38 am

After delivereing their last A300 to FedEx, Airbus made the following claim on their website at www.airbus.com/en/corporate/people/company_evolution/a300/index.html :

“Nearly forty years ago the Airbus adventure started with the A300B, an innovative response to airlines’ requirements. In 1972 the world’s first widebody twin-aisle commercial aircraft performed its maiden flight, the first steps towards changing the face of modern aviation.”

There were several twin-aisle commercial aircraft before the A300B came out including the Boeing 747, the McDonnell Douglas DC-10 and the Lockheed L-1011 Tristar. The A300B was the first twin jet widebody aircraft but certainly not the first twin-aisle aircraft. The A300B was a great aircraft and it set the standard for twin jet widebody aircraft, and made trijets like the DC-10, L-1011 and MD-11 a thing of the past. Nowadays, almost all new large aircraft designs (both single and twin-aisle) are twin jets and about the only exceptions are the A340, A380 and 747. All this started with the A300B, which did change the face of modern aviation.

I have been an airplane enthusiast for more than 35 years and I am amazed how many factual errors about aircraft are found in magazines, books and on the Internet. The error in this particular article is most likely a typo or an oversight. Nevertheless, information like this is misleading especially when it’s on the aircraft manufacturer’s very own website. Don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to pick on Airbus, as I have seen blatant errors similar to this one on Boeing’s website as well.
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Viscount724
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:41 am

They have omitted a reference to twin-engine. I've seen their claim before to the world's first twin-engine widebody (or twin-engine, twin-aisle) aircraft. Anyway, that's what they mean.

[Edited 2007-07-17 23:45:14]
 
flyingcat
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:42 am

Someone on their web staff omitted part of the sentence. It is supposed to say world's first widebody twin-aisle commercial aircraft.

[Edited 2007-07-17 23:43:19]
 
ikramerica
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:42 am

should read "twin-engine" but a mistake like that on the corporate webpage is pretty silly
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:42 am

I think they meant wide-bodied twin-engined, since Airbus and others have continuously saying this for years and years.
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Thread starter):
The A300B was a great aircraft and it set the standard for twin jet widebody aircraft, and made trijets like the DC-10, L-1011 and MD-11 a thing of the past.

Hmmmm, how come airlines kept ordering the DC-10 and L1011? How come McDonald Douglas developed the MD-11 years after the A300 came out?
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:53 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Hmmmm, how come airlines kept ordering the DC-10 and L1011? How come McDonald Douglas developed the MD-11 years after the A300 came out?

How many widebody trijets are still in production/development = none.

The A300 was a game changer, it was the final nail in the coffin for the 3 holer as it led to the B767, A330 etc.
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:55 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Hmmmm, how come airlines kept ordering the DC-10 and L1011? How come McDonald Douglas developed the MD-11 years after the A300 came out?

Of course it was the 767 that actually killed off those trijets, but why let a little something like history get in the way of PR?

The A300 had to be revamped as the 300-600 just to compete with the 767-300ER but still lost that battle, forcing Airbus to build the A330 which was a true A300 and 763 replacement.
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 6):
How many widebody trijets are still in production/development = none.

Well aware of that. However, it's not like the first generation A300 killed the three-holer. As Ikramerica mentioned, it was the 767 that had more to do with that.
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:29 am

747 entered service January, 22 1970.

So , in fact the 747 was the first widebody/twin aisle aircraft. By TWO YEARS before the A300 first flew.

Even better the 747-200 was in service before the A300 first flew.
 
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Quoting GeorgeJetson (Thread starter):
The A300B was a great aircraft and it set the standard for twin jet widebody aircraft, and made trijets like the DC-10, L-1011 and MD-11 a thing of the past.

Hmmmm, how come airlines kept ordering the DC-10 and L1011?

The early A300 had significantly shorter range than even the DC-10-10 and L1011-1. And the final A300-600, while much improved in range vs early A300s, was never a match for the DC-10-30 or longer-range L1011s.
 
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 6):
How many widebody trijets are still in production/development = none.

Whip reversal time

How many A300s are still ordered/on the production line? = None.
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
The early A300 had significantly shorter range than even the DC-10-10 and L1011-1. And the final A300-600, while much improved in range vs early A300s, was never a match for the DC-10-30 or longer-range L1011s.

The original A300's (B2 and B4) were built for routes such as London/Paris - Rome, or New York - Chicago, where the range is reltively small, but the demand is high.
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 11):
How many A300s are still ordered/on the production line? = None.

Still plenty of twins been sold
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Thread starter):
I have been an airplane enthusiast for more than 35 years and I am amazed how many factual errors about aircraft are found in magazines, books and on the Internet.

Sad but true.

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Thread starter):
Don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to pick on Airbus, as I have seen blatant errors similar to this one on Boeing’s website as well.

...and Rolls-Royce. I wrote to them more than a week ago to point out that they can't add. They claim 198 orders for Trent-powered 787s but their list only comes to 188. I've had no response and they haven't changed it.  Sad

And a couple of weeks ago SQ were saying on their website that the A350-1000 will seat 31 (sic) in a three-class configuration.

Joe Public may not know better (or even care) but the companies that make and buy the damn things shouldn't make this kind of mistake.
 
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Thread starter):
Hmmmm, how come airlines kept ordering the DC-10 and L1011? How come McDonald Douglas developed the MD-11 years after the A300 came out?

It is true that the airlines kept ordering the DC-10 and L-1011. Back in those days, the A300 did not really compete directly with the widebody three-holers, as it was still a smaller aircraft with a shorter range. Unfortunately, the demand for widebody trijets was not big enough for more than one aircraft manufacturer to be profitable and Lockheed lost about a million dollars on each L-1011 that was built. As for the MD-11, even though it was developed many years after the A300, it did not sell well because its performance was below specs, and in fact many airlines canceled their orders as a result. Perhaps, the third engine on the MD-11 contributed to its range and fuel burn flaws. When the Boeing 777 came out, it proved that two engines are more economical than three for aircraft of that size. Ironically some of the first designs of the DC-10 were supposed to have only two engines, but a third one was added to improve short field performance. Also, it seems that McDonnell Douglas considered building a twinjet widebody before the MD-11 actually came out. It's really too bad that they didn't because they may have had more success that way. All in all, it’s unfortunate that McDonnell Douglas was absorbed by Boeing and that Lockheed no longer produces passenger aircraft as the aviation industry could certainly use more competition.
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:53 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 6):
The A300 was a game changer, it was the final nail in the coffin for the 3 holer as it led to the B767, A330 etc.

Maybe you should do some very basic research before you say these things. The A300 as first delivered was widely thought of as a very BAD joke of an aircraft. The range was so poor it was suitable for inter-Europe flights and thats just about it.

Now when Airbus later increased the MTOW by a good bit and the range grew to something reasonable, it was a different story, but for much of the A300 life it suffered from the initial impressions it gave, It took the A300-600 to really change that.

One also notes that the A310 wasn't a short A300, but a virtually all new aircraft. Good news is thought that Airbus took much of the advances and rolled them back into the A300 development program for newer versions.

Boeing had its own screw ups and errors in its past, like the 720B so I am not just picking on Airbus to pick on them....
 
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:55 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Thread starter):
Quoting WAH64D (Reply 6):
How many widebody trijets are still in production/development = none.

Whip reversal time

How many A300s are still ordered/on the production line? = None.

Touché!!!
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:02 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Reply 15):
All in all, it's unfortunate that McDonnell Douglas was absorbed by Boeing and that Lockheed no longer produces passenger aircraft as the aviation industry could certainly use more competition.

Embraer's name keeps getting brought up in the 797 competitor market. It would be interesting to see if Embraer can pull off becoming a true competitor. I think the industry could really benefit from that!
 
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:03 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Thread starter):
And a couple of weeks ago SQ were saying on their website that the A350-1000 will seat 31 (sic) in a three-class configuration.

That could be really bad publicity for the A350 program, and right now, they need all the help they can get to acquire more orders!
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:04 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
The early A300 had significantly shorter range than even the DC-10-10 and L1011-1. And the final A300-600, while much improved in range vs early A300s, was never a match for the DC-10-30 or longer-range L1011s.

That's what I was thinking too in my original post. Perhaps I should have worded it better.
For them to say that the A300 made the DC-10 and L1011 outdated is false considering it's not the same market.
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Reply 19):
That could be really bad publicity for the A350 program

But think of the legroom!!!
 
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 16):
Boeing had its own screw ups and errors in its past, like the 720B so I am not just picking on Airbus to pick on them....

Just out of curiosity, what are you referring to re the 720B. It was an excellent aircraft and Boeing's "hot rod" of the early jet era with fantasic performance. It provided excellent service for quite a few carriers including NW, Western, LH and others. It was especially good for carriers that needed good hot and high performance.

The orignal 720 with pure jet JT3C engines was much less powerful and always seemed underpowered to me, but the 720B with its JT3D turbofans made it a completely different aircraft, with the same engines as the 707-320B/C but about 100,000 lbs. less gross weight.

I've never heard a reference to "screwups and errors" in relation to the 720B so was wondering what you mean.
 
GeorgeJetson
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Thread starter):
That's what I was thinking too in my original post. Perhaps I should have worded it better.
For them to say that the A300 made the DC-10 and L1011 outdated is false considering it's not the same market.

One could say that the DC-10 and L-1011 are outdated by today’s standards and of course, it wasn’t the A300 that made it that way, not directly at least. However, with the advances in jet engine technology that have taken place during the past decade, two engines make a lot more sense than three, and it is no doubt the A300 that started this trend, in widebody aircraft at least.
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:18 am

I wonder would I make the same mistake if I typed in French.
 
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:19 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Thread starter):
Quoting GeorgeJetson (Reply 19):
That could be really bad publicity for the A350 program

But think of the legroom!!!

Yes, bad news for Airbus but great news for the passengers!!!
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
I've never heard a reference to "screwups and errors" in relation to the 720B so was wondering what you mean.

It got the job done, but Boeing lost a good pile of cash doing it. It likely was good overall in that coupled with other programs in the future that wouldn't pay the bills its gone a long way to teaching boeing not to do "one offs" of aircraft. Though as I say that now the 783 is currently riding that edge, and the 748i is still more of a "pee in airbus's pool" than "make buckets of cash to take to the bank" program.

As much as I like interesting and high performance aircraft, it remains that boring and common is what keeps the doors open and the lights on at Boeing and Airbus.
 
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircr

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 16):
Maybe you should do some very basic research before you say these things. The A300 as first delivered was widely thought of as a very BAD joke of an aircraft. The range was so poor it was suitable for inter-Europe flights and thats just about it.

I stand by my statement. It was the first of the widebody twins and heralded a new era in commercial aviation.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 7):
Of course it was the 767 that actually killed off those trijets, but why let a little something like history get in the way of PR?

The A300 had to be revamped as the 300-600 just to compete with the 767-300ER but still lost that battle, forcing Airbus to build the A330 which was a true A300 and 763 replacement.

The B767 was very much Boeing's reaction to the A300 and an outstanding job they did too. The A300 was undeniably the first aircraft in that category with its first flight being almost 10 years ahead of the B767.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 11):
Whip reversal time

How many A300s are still ordered/on the production line? = None.

35 year production span is not to be ignored.

A300 built: 561
DC-10 built: 386
KC-10 built: 60
L1011 built: 250
MD-11 built: 200

DC-10 production span: 20yrs
L1011 production span: 16yrs
MD-11 production span: 12yrs

The 2 main manufacturers of tri-jets McDonnell-Douglas and Lockheed now have how many orders on their books? Oh, thats right, they no longer exist because they didn't move with the times. Betting the farm on widebody 3 holers was probably not a good idea then?

End of discussion, thank you

[Edited 2007-07-18 01:44:43]
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:34 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 11):
How many A300s are still ordered/on the production line? = None.

Well until last week there were some, the same cant be said from the trijets.  Wink
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GeorgeJetson
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Thread starter):
Boeing had its own screw ups and errors in its past, like the 720B so I am not just picking on Airbus to pick on them....

What could possibly have been wrong with the Boeing 720B? It was a great airplane and pilots liked it a lot because of its performance. The 720 was Boeing’s answer to the Convair 880, while the 720B was their answer to the Convair 990. Boeing sold 154 720/720B aircraft while Convair sold only 102 880/990 aircraft, and this would become the end of the line for the ConvairLiners, while Boeing would continue producing airplanes for many decades. It is true that Boeing was very aggressive and built probably too many flavors of the 707/720 line including the 707-120, -120B, -138, -138B, -220, -320, -320B, -320C, -420 (and even one -700 that was downgraded to a -320C) as well as the 720-020 and 720-020B. And yes, overall, it took many years for Boeing to recover their investment from the time that the 707 first came out until they were actually profitable but nevertheless, it was the 707/720 aircraft that dethrowned Douglas and made Boeing the king of the skies (for a few years at least!).
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:52 am

About the game changer... Well, maybe it's true that the 767 replaced the DC-10 and L-1011, yet the A300B IS the first widebody twin, and as such, the forerunner of what has brought us the 787... Fitting that one's last delivery and the other's first public presentation should be on the same week...


About the press releases mistakes... A few years ago, someone at Boeing wrote that they had introduced BA's ancester BOAC to the jet airliner, many years ago, with the 707... I wrote to them, asking if they had ever heard about De Havilland and the Comet... Nobody ever answered...  Wink

Quoting EI321 (Reply 24):
I wonder would I make the same mistake if I typed in French.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Let's give it a try:

Le premier vol de l'A300B, en 1972, représentait le début de deux grandes aventures: celle du fabricant, Airbus, mais aussi celle du bimoteur à fuselage large. Dans cette optique, on peut dire que l'A300B a ouvert la voie à tous ces bimoteurs géants qui sont de plus en plus communs sur les routes long-courrier.
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:59 am

Quoting CruzinAltitude (Reply 18):
Embraer's name keeps getting brought up in the 797 competitor market. It would be interesting to see if Embraer can pull off becoming a true competitor. I think the industry could really benefit from that!

With the recent success of their E-jets (that are selling like hot cakes), if anybody can pull it off, I think Embraer can. It will be a very good thing if they decide to compete head-on with Airbus and Boeing. Adding a little bit more healthy competition will likely create new advances in technology and will result in better aircraft being manufactured. With only two major players in the 150+ passenger aircraft market, there is probably not enough incentive for A & B to really compete as fiercely as they used to. Look at Airbus: They are taking all the time in the world to put their A380 in service and to develop the A350XWB. Just think what might happen should Embraer join the club of the big boys! I bet Airbus would wake up real fast and get their A350 off the ground a lot sooner, so that they can start working on an A320 replacement before it's too late!
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 27):
Betting the farm on widebody 3 holers was probably not a good idea then?

IBetting the farm on a four holer A380 was probably not a good idea either.
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 26):
It got the job done, but Boeing lost a good pile of cash doing it.

Yes, it is true that Boeing lost a pile of cash when they came out with the 720 and 720B but they also killed off the competition (the Convair 880 and 990) in the process. It’s a cut-throat business where only the strong survive even if it means losing money once in a while. With the 720, Boeing also managed to get their foot in the door with United (launch customer of the 720) who was initially a DC-8 customer.
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:45 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 32):
IBetting the farm on a four holer A380 was probably not a good idea either.

In what way is this groundless and premature assertion relevant to this thread?
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:05 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 27):
The 2 main manufacturers of tri-jets McDonnell-Douglas and Lockheed now have how many orders on their books? Oh, thats right, they no longer exist because they didn't move with the times. Betting the farm on widebody 3 holers was probably not a good idea then?

MD didn't go under, they were bought by Boeing and many of their products are still produced.

LockMart doesn't seem to be in trouble either.

Perhaps you aren't familiar with some aircraft?


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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircr

Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 35):
Perhaps you aren't familiar with some aircraft?

I actually travel on the C17/C130 on a regular basis. As you well know, I was talking in the context of commercial aviation. Your entire post is a very weak rebuttal. I'll assume my previous comments are pretty watertight in this case.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 35):
MD didn't go under, they were bought by Boeing and many of their products are still produced.



Quoting wikipedia:
Following Boeing's 1996 acquisition of Rockwell's North American division, McDonnell Douglas merged with Boeing in 1997 in a US$13 billion stock-swap to create The Boeing Company.

A failed joint venture in China was a major cause of McDonnell Douglas's downfall, as chronicled in Joe Studwell's book The China Dream. He describes McDonnell's returns for two decades in China as "40 Sino-US marriages among its staff and untold embarrassment."

It was a hostile takeover in all but name. How quickly was the MD-95/B717 canned?

[Edited 2007-07-18 03:19:55]
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:23 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 32):
IBetting the farm on a four holer A380 was probably not a good idea either.

If jet engine technology becomes just a little bit more reliable (with a zero percent failure rate), perhaps one holers may replace two-holers someday!!! It seems that this is likely to happen in the never-ending evolution of jet engines. The first aircraft manufacturer that comes up with an airliner that flies on just one engine is likely to take the A300 concept to a whole new level! Perhaps this may be the key to developing a newer generation single-aisle aircraft that is more fuel efficient and eventually apply the same concept to twin-aisle aircraft. Can anyone picture a Boeing Y1 with a single GE90-115B engine on its tail (à la DC-10 or MD-11)? Could this be Boeing’s secret weapon? One of those engines still produces more thrust than two CFM56s on a 737 or A320. And besides, WHY would they call it a Y1 (pun intended)? Why put two engines on a plane when one might just do the job? As for me, I'm not sure if I would want to fly on a one-engine commercial jetliner unless of course they use the same glider technology that's on the space shuttle, just in case something went wrong!
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:24 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 36):
It was a hostile takeover in all but name.

Which only means that Boeing had more financial weight to throw around. It doesn't matter how successful your product is if a bigger company has enough cash to buy you out you're toast.

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 36):
How quickly was the MD-95/B717 canned?

It was a direct competitor to the 737. Boeing would have been retarded to keep the line open to compete against their other products.

And now for that brain crunching moment of doom... if the A300 was such the foil to the DC-10/MD-11... how come FedEx and UPS fly both aircraft?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
GeorgeJetson
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:34 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 38):
And now for that brain crunching moment of doom... if the A300 was such the foil to the DC-10/MD-11... how come FedEx and UPS fly both aircraft?

And the simple answer is: They make excellent freighters!
Meet George Jetson
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:37 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Reply 37):
If jet engine technology becomes just a little bit more reliable (with a zero percent failure rate), perhaps one holers may replace two-holers someday!!!

Please name just one mechanical device with a zero percent failure rate in operation.  Wink
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
GeorgeJetson
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 40):
Please name just one mechanical device with a zero percent failure rate in operation.

I can't think of any offhand, however the idea of a jetliner with one engine is not so far-fetched as there out thousands of small propeller planes out there that only have one engine, and now they are even building a few small planes with a single jet engine as well.
Meet George Jetson
 
airbazar
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Reply 37):
If jet engine technology becomes just a little bit more reliable (with a zero percent failure rate), perhaps one holers may replace two-holers someday!!! It seems that this is likely to happen in the never-ending evolution of jet engines.

You're more likely to see pilot-less cockpits in commercial aviation before you'll see a single engine aircraft of significant size. However, I don't expect to see either one of those in my lifetime  Smile
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:54 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Reply 41):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 40):
Please name just one mechanical device with a zero percent failure rate in operation.

I can't think of any offhand, however the idea of a jetliner with one engine is not so far-fetched as there out thousands of small propeller planes out there that only have one engine, and now they are even building a few small planes with a single jet engine as well.

I will agree with Airbazar and predict pilotless airliners before one-engine airliners. Single points of failure are unwise and not very much liked by the regulators.

Besides, a zero percent failure rate is well nigh impossible to achieve. Modern engineering can't do it because the tolerances would need to be subatomic. And even then it's only a matter of time.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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PM
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 35):
Perhaps you aren't familiar with some aircraft?

Not a lot of civil airliners in your gallery. The truth is that McD were out of the civil market when Boeing marched in with their chequebook. It was the military portfolio that Seattle wanted.
 
OB1504
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 38):
It was a direct competitor to the 737. Boeing would have been retarded to keep the line open to compete against their other products.

Really, it (the 717) only competed well against the 737-600, and would've made a good replacement for older DC-9s and F-100s. It would've competed very nicely against the larger E-Jets.
 
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PM
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:01 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 45):
Really, it (the 717) only competed well against the 737-600, and would've made a good replacement for older DC-9s and F-100s. It would've competed very nicely against the larger E-Jets.

I think you're right. Sales of the 737-600 have been feeble (69 all told and only 13 since the turn of the century). The 717 easily outsold the 737-600. It might have been better to drop the 736 and keep the 717...  Sad
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:06 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 46):

I think you're right. Sales of the 737-600 have been feeble (69 all told and only 13 since the turn of the century). The 717 easily outsold the 737-600. It might have been better to drop the 736 and keep the 717...

Not really. The 736 doesn't require it's own production line like the 717. It just slots in with all the other 737NGs and uses many of the same parts.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
PennStation
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 4:03 pm

RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:27 pm

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 27):
End of discussion, thank you

ETOPS killed the three-engined widebodies. Please tell me more about how TWA pioneered ETOPS with their A300's.
 
Burkhard
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RE: Airbus Claims A300B Was First Twin-Aisle Aircraft

Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:42 pm

When a colleague goes to retirement, and you have to give him a farewell address, do you recall his good or his bad side?

Same with the A300 - it was an important milestone in airliner history. It had its limitations - but prooved for the first time the concept of a twin engine twin aisle aircraft. So whoever celebrates the birth parties of the 787 today, must remember that the 767 was the mother and the A300 the grand mother.

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