timz
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Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:30 am

Preparing for another auction, so more excerpts, from the April 1967 OAG this time. (More to follow.)

Air Canada has weekly nonstop DC-8s YVR-LHR, YEG-LHR, YWG-LHR and YYZ-FRA, and thrice-weekly YYZ-LHR. YUL-ORY is daily, but no YUL-LHR nonstop. (Just BOAC.)

YUL-CPH-SVO (?) is weekly (as is the Aeroflot Tu114 YUL-SVO nonstop).

All AC's flights out of BDA are Vanguards: 4/week to YYZ, 2/week to YUL, 2/wk to Halifax and one to Antigua-Barbados.

AC and CP don't fly to Detroit, just to Windsor. AC has four Vanguards and four Viscounts a day YYZ-ORD and four Viscount nonstops YYZ-CLE. Their only flights from YUL to the USA: three DC9s, four Vanguards and one Viscount to JFK, and a daily Vanguard to TPA. (They also have two DC8s, one Vanguard and one DC9 daily YYZ-TPA. A long DC9 route, and a long prop route, for 1967.)

A daily DC9 YUL-YWG-YVR-- no other nonstops from YUL beyond YYZ. Even out of YYZ they don't have that many long flights: one nonstop DC8 to YVR, one to YEG and one to YYC.

CP only had one DC-8-50 at this point? Wonder which of their longish nonstops they used it on. Four nonstops a week (it says) Tokyo-YVR, weekly YVR-AMS and YYC-AMS, 2/week YEG-AMS-- and weekly YYZ-HNL, the only flight flown by anyone to Hawaii from east of the Pacific Coast.

Seven flights a week YVR-HNL, one of which continues to NAN and (alternate weeks) SYD or AKL. 2/week YVR-MEX and beyond, 1/week YYC-MEX and beyond. The daily DC8 YVR-SFO is their only flight to the continental US.

Out of YUL CP has nonstops weekly to MAD, 4/week to AMS, 2/week to LIS and weekly to SMA-LIS. Weekly YYZ-AMS and YYZ-FCO, 2/week YYZ-MEX and weekly YYZ-Windsor-MEX. CP 1 is a daily DC8 YUL-YYZ-YWG-YVR.
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:18 am

too many airport codes...too many airport codes...

great work though!
 
Viscount724
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:14 am

Thanks for the reminders of the AC/CP schedules in 1967. Brings back memories (I worked for CP from 1969 to 1994).

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
CP only had one DC-8-50 at this point? Wonder which of their longish nonstops they used it on.

The DC-8-50 was basically integrated with the 5 DC-8-40s. Can't recall it having any specific routes so it no doubt showed up on all 5 continents CP served. CP operated another leased DC-8-50 for a year from late 1966 to late 1967. It happened to be the very first DC-8 built, retained by Douglas for several years, converted to a -50 to certify that model, then refurbished and sold. It operated for several carriers on short-term leases. After CP it was sold to DL who had for about 10 years, and finally it went to Aeromexico.

CP added one more DC-8-55F combi with main deck cargo door in late 1967. Most of the time it operated in all-passenger configuration. Four DC-8-63s arrived in 1968, and another -63 bought used from Eastern in 1972. In total, including the DC-8-40 written off at TYO in 1966, CP operated 14 DC-8s.

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
Four nonstops a week (it says) Tokyo-YVR

3 of the Tokyo flights continued to HKG if memory correct.

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
weekly YYZ-HNL, the only flight flown by anyone to Hawaii from east of the Pacific Coast.

UA started ORD-HNL and JFK-HNL nonstops in 1969 when their long-range DC-8-62s were delivered. JFK-HNL was dropped after a few years.

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
CP 1 is a daily DC8 YUL-YYZ-YWG-YVR.

In 1967 that was the only transcon domestic route CP was permitted to operate (apart from regional services in western Canada.) AC (government-owned then) had a monopoly on major domestic routes. The government finally started opening things up about a year later and permitted CP to operate up to 25% of total capacity between major cities (YVR/YYC/YEG/YWG/YYZ/YOW/YUL). CP's first 7 B737-200s arrived in 1968/69 and were used extensively on the new domestic routes, with DC-8s on longer sectors including YVR-YYZ nonstops which started then. However all CP transcon flights still had to originate/terminate at YVR and YUL which limited scheduling flexibility, That restriction was dropped a few years later, and eventually the entire domestic market was of course deregulated.

AC was also given preference for new Canada-USA routes, with the single exception of YVR-SFO (and YVR-HNL which CP had been serving since 1949, en route to the South Pacific). YVR-SFO only started in 1967 if memory correct. CP had to wait another 7 years for their next USA route when they added YVR-LAX (AC got half a dozen new US routes in that batch of route awards).
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:12 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2):
Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
weekly YYZ-HNL, the only flight flown by anyone to Hawaii from east of the Pacific Coast.

UA started ORD-HNL and JFK-HNL nonstops in 1969 when their long-range DC-8-62s were delivered. JFK-HNL was dropped after a few years.

The US Government didn't allow any airline to fly from Hawaii to anywhere east of the Pacific Coast until 1969. Only three airlines were allowed to fly to Hawaii: UA (from SFO and LAX), NW (from PDX and SEA) and PA (from all of the cities served by UA / NW).

In 1969, UA and NW were allowed to overfly the West Coast on flights from the East Coast to Hawaii. The government also allowed the following airlines to begin service to Hawaii:

Braniff (from Dallas); BN was also certificated to fly from Houston, Atlanta, Tampa, and Miami to Hawaii, but BN never flew these routes.

Continental (from LAX, DEN, MCI, and ORD).

Western (from SAN, LAX, SFO, and ANC; all LAX-HNL flights had to originate in PHX, DEN, SLC, or MSP)

TWA (from LAX and SFO; all flights continued on to Guam, Okinawa, Taipei, and ultimately around the world)

American (from STL, JFK, and ORD); most flights continued on to Fiji, Pago Pago, Australia, and New Zealand
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yow
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
YYZ-MEX and weekly YYZ-Windsor-MEX.

A flight to MEX used to stop at YQG - Windsor?

What was service on AC like out of YOW in 1967? It wasn't much I know that for sure. Was CP even flying to YOW in '67?

[Edited 2007-07-20 16:41:01]
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:38 pm

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
AC has four Vanguards and four Viscounts a day YYZ-ORD



Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
Their only flights from YUL to the USA: three DC9s, four Vanguards and one Viscount to JFK,

That is actually quite a bit of fequency!!!

Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
YYZ-Windsor-MEX

Windsor-Mexico nonstop?????
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 5):
Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
YYZ-Windsor-MEX

Windsor-Mexico nonstop?????

That's correct - I saw this in an OAG from 1964

I'm sure much of the traffic CP carried actually originated north of the Detroit River, in Detroit. Detroit's "Mexican" neighborhood was located for many years between Tiger Stadium and the Ambassador Bridge, closer to YQG than DTW.

CP's biggest competition for the DTW/YQG - Mexico market was AeroMexico; AM flew MEX-DTW-YYZ with DC-8s from 1964 to 1975. No US carrier flew nonstop from DTW to MEX until 1994, although AA flew DTW-ORD-MEX-ACA for many years with 707s and DC-10s.
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timz
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 1):
...too many airport codes

You know about putting the cursor on them, which brings up a translation?

I'll check, but as I recall BN did claim to fly Houston to Hawaii nonstop. I think they claimed a weekly nonstop to Hilo.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:30 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 6):
I'm sure much of the traffic CP carried actually originated north of the Detroit River, in Detroit. Detroit's "Mexican" neighborhood was located for many years between Tiger Stadium and the Ambassador Bridge, closer to YQG than DTW.

DTW must have had a mexican population back when mexicans were rare in the non-border states. I have an OAG with a AM DC-8 from MEX-DTW. 1973 I think
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:34 am

In 1967 did CP have DC-8-60 series?

They had quite an extensive South American network too.

In 1967, AC began ORD-YUL nonstop 3x daily with DC-9s.


AC was a bit late in the game with 727s not arriving until 1974.

EA/NE and MO served YUL in 1967. EA I think from LGA/JFK/PHL and NE from BOS and MO i think had a LGA-ALB-BVT-YUL run with B11s. AF's flights all went on to ORD as did I think BA's V10s.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:44 am

Quoting YOW" class=quote target=_blank>YOW (Reply 4):
Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
YYZ-MEX and weekly YYZ-Windsor-MEX.
[quote=YOW,reply=4]A flight to MEX used to stop at YQG - Windsor?

CP also had a weekly nonstop DC-8 YYC-MEX then. One of the 2 or 3 weekly YVR-South America flights stopped in YYC. Operated YVR-YYC-MEX-LIM-SCL-EZE.

Quoting YOW" class=quote target=_blank>YOW (Reply 4):
Was CP even flying to YOW in '67?

No CP wasn't permitted to serve YOW until 1969 I believe, as part of the government's new policy that permitted CP to operate up to 25% of domestic capacity.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 9):
In 1967 did CP have DC-8-60 series?

The four new DC-8-63s were all delivered in 1968, plus one bought used from EA in 1972. See Reply 2 re CP's DC-8s.
 
timz
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 3):
BN was also certificated to fly from Houston, Atlanta, Tampa, and Miami to Hawaii, but BN never flew these routes.

The 9/69 OAG shows thrice-weekly nonstops Houston-HNL and daily ATL-HNL.

Quoting YOW" class=quote target=_blank>YOW (Reply 4):
out of YOW in 1967?

Viscounts and Vanguards to YUL, ditto to YYZ, a Viscount to Val d'Or and DC9s YUL-YOW-YWG-YEG and YYC-YWG-YOW-YUL.
 
altairF28
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:31 pm

I know AC had already changed their name by this time but what was their IATA code when they were still called Trans-Canada Air Lines?
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longhauler
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:13 pm

Quoting AltairF28 (Reply 12):
I know AC had already changed their name by this time but what was their IATA code when they were still called Trans-Canada Air Lines?

TC
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pnwtraveler
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RE: Snapshot: AC And CP, 1967

Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:09 pm

I flew mostly AC but once and a while CP. CP had better food but economy seemed more cramped. Last CP flight I took was on a DC1O. My last Canadian flight was on a 737 to YUL with the new blue and grey interiors. I actually really liked that colour scheme. The food was complete crap and the roles had reversed with AC's better. Once AC and Canadian merged for a time I think the two catering companies continued to service the two different old carriers. I flew to YVR on an old Canadian 767-300 and SkyChefs were the caters. The salad looked like something they took out of the garbage behind a restaurant. Inedible. I flew back on a AC 767-300 and Cara was the caterer. The food was much better. I witnessed that a number of times. Does anyone know if that was a fluck or did that happen for a period of time?