tomascubero
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:19 pm

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:24 pm

Hi Guys,

Just in from ACARS:

ACARS mode: 2 Aircraft reg: .N68159 [B767 COA]
Message label: RA Block id: H Msg. no: QUFC
Flight id: FDVCO.
Message content:-
1DISP TO 0051/20
AMZ FIR/BRAZILIA HAS LOST ALL HR AND ENROUTE
RADAR. THEY NOT ACCEPTING FLTS. NEED TO HAVE
YOU RETURN TO IAH.
THANKS JP/DISP

-------------------------------------[20/07/2007 23:14]

I have been told by a Brazilian friend that they have lost all communcation frequencies and are un-operational at this time, so it seems its a technical problem. That was CO51 IAH-EZE which should be close to Costa Rica's Atlantic coast right now. Hope this does not cause a lot of chaos since these hours is when most of the US/Canada flights arrive into Brazil/Argentina/Bolivia, etc.

Regards,
Tomas.

[Edited 2007-07-21 07:36:01]
 
Seattle Ops
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 1999 7:35 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:52 pm

Youre right Tom, everyone is turning back to US gateways or diverting short. Gonna be a big mess!
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:02 pm

All flights originating in North America returning according to flightaware. . . AC, UA, DL, CO, you name it. . .

[Edited 2007-07-21 08:20:24]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
EMB195
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:03 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:04 pm

Boy, it never ends! At least that's what it feels like right now. Sad to see your home country in this situation.  worried 
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:06 pm

Quoting EMB195 (Reply 3):

Outrage. . . .? I don't know what to call it. . .

[Edited 2007-07-21 08:06:57]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
hoya
Posts: 454
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:25 pm

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:08 pm

UA Flight 843 (ORD-GRU) is diverting to MCO. UA 861 is flying back to IAD, per flightaware. AA 951 looks like is heading back to JFK. AA 995 and 929 (MIA-GRU) heading back as well. Haven't checked other flights, but what a mess.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
HowSwedeitis
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:59 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:09 pm

How many planes/flights are we talking about here?
Heja Sverige!!
 
EMB195
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:03 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:17 pm

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 4):
Outrage. . . .? I don't know what to call it. . .

All I have to say is: we better start seeing some big changes in Brazilian aviation, and soon!!! I really don't want to come in here and see another post like the one for flight JJ 3054. Two major tragedies in ten months! Unbelievable...
 
Seattle Ops
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 1999 7:35 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:18 pm




Here is 1 diversion.

[Edited 2007-07-21 08:26:06]
 
Seattle Ops
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 1999 7:35 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:22 pm

Big version: Width: 800 Height: 600 File size: 470kb


And anorther divert.
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13075
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:26 pm

Is this affecting only North America to Brazil flights or could this even affect flights e.g. from EZE, SCL, or Europe?
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:26 pm

It's a shame...

Also all flights Brazil-US return to GIG and GRU....

Will be a crazy weekend ! At least this time i'm not in the middle of the nightmare as i postpone a business trip to Rio de Janeiro.
Brazil does not count with a contingency system (but even the main system doesn't seems to work properly)


Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
HowSwedeitis
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:59 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:27 pm

Does anyone know how many planes/flights are affected?  Confused
Heja Sverige!!
 
hoya
Posts: 454
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:25 pm

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:34 pm

UA 847 IAD-EZE also heading back to IAD, so it's not only flights headed to and from Brazil.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
 
Seattle Ops
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 1999 7:35 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:36 pm

 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:37 pm

I'm listening to GRU tower and I think I just heard Aeromexico. .

[Edited 2007-07-21 08:43:13]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Acey
Posts: 986
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:06 pm

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:41 pm

Quoting Hoya (Reply 13):
UA 847 IAD-EZE also heading back to IAD, so it's not only flights headed to and from Brazil.

Looks like everyone that's flying to/from Brazil or has even a portion of their route over the affected area is turning around. My buddy lives in Toronto; his sister is on AC 90 tonight running YYZ-GRU, looks like he's going to see her again sooner than expected.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
HowSwedeitis
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:59 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:41 pm

Ohhh, this is going to snarl air traffic....  gnasher 
Heja Sverige!!
 
tomascubero
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:19 pm

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:43 pm

This diversion looks odd, says back to IAD when you can clearly seeing its headed towards MCO/TPA:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1882/ual861sv6.png

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 14):
CO 51 is going to Argentina, so I guess so?

Right, they are headed back to IAH according to the message above, this would also affect Bolivia, Uruguay, Paraguay and maybe Chile, but not completely sure about Chile since I think some flights avoid Brazilian airspace.

I guess also this means that domestic flights, as well as European and the rest of the flights have to be diverted. Hope this gets fixed promptly and that it goes without any dramatic event.

Tomas.

[Edited 2007-07-21 08:48:24]
 
Acey
Posts: 986
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:06 pm

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:52 pm

Quoting Tomascubero (Reply 19):
This diversion looks odd, says back to IAD when you can clearly seeing its headed towards MCO/TPA

Since that image, it has now hugged the coast and is surely heading north.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
HowSwedeitis
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:59 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:55 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 20):
Since that image, it has now hugged the coast and is surely heading north.

What are they doing? Flying VFR?  scratchchin 
Heja Sverige!!
 
tomascubero
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:19 pm

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:58 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 20):
Since that image, it has now hugged the coast and is surely heading north.

Quite indeed:



Guess back to IAD as programmed now.

Tomas.
 
Acey
Posts: 986
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:06 pm

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:00 pm

Quoting HowSwedeitis (Reply 21):
What are they doing? Flying VFR?

I'm not sure why it came back to the coast, but it's definitely IAD-bound.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
HowSwedeitis
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:59 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:01 pm

Forgive me for sounding ignorant, but why wouldn't they just straight shoot it to IAD? Why are they "Hugging the coast?"
Heja Sverige!!
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 2967
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:03 pm

Quoting HowSwedeitis (Reply 24):
Forgive me for sounding ignorant, but why wouldn't they just straight shoot it to IAD? Why are they "Hugging the coast?"

Fuel burn, perhaps? I'm sure they're way too heavy to land right now. But that raises the question, why not just fly direct IAD, and get in a holding pattern.

I have no idea.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:05 pm

To me it looks like UA 861 is avoiding weather. .
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
HowSwedeitis
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:59 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:06 pm

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 25):
Fuel burn

Ah! That does seem plausible... It's not really an emergency, and they were scheduled to fly for a certain amount of time anyway, so yea, that's probably what it is. Thanks!!  checkmark 
Heja Sverige!!
 
HowSwedeitis
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:59 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:07 pm

Weather/Fuel. That makes sence.

[Edited 2007-07-21 09:11:13]
Heja Sverige!!
 
Acey
Posts: 986
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:06 pm

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:23 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 17):
Looks like everyone that's flying to/from Brazil or has even a portion of their route over the affected area is turning around. My buddy lives in Toronto; his sister is on AC 90 tonight running YYZ-GRU, looks like he's going to see her again sooner than expected.

But alas, as everyone else turns around AC 90 bound for GRU is still going and is now over Puerto Rico. Flightaware will lose track soon, so we'll have to see where she ends up. Interesting.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
User avatar
robffm2
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:47 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:38 pm

Flights from Europe don't seem to be affected. I checked LH and BA and both seem to be on their way to GRU, even though delayed.
Also Infraero (click on Voos On Line) shows them.

(you might need to click on the pic to enlarge it)
http://www.airliners.net/uf/536928876/1185003241Safwn4.jpg

[Edited 2007-07-21 09:41:28]
 
tomascubero
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:19 pm

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:52 pm

I think it might be solved, since AA995 is scheduled to depart to GRU at 0500 local:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL995

As well as DAL121 from SJU to GRU at 0520 local:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL121

Hopefully this is the case...

Tomas.
 
User avatar
viasa
Posts: 1437
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:29 pm

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:40 pm

Great, they have still Swissair arround there...
 
aacun
Posts: 432
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:47 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:25 pm

We were one of the lucky ones, we left Rio around 900pm on AA904 last night, just got to Miami, but my collegues on AA2980 actually returned to Rio and their flight cancelled after that down there.......... BIG MESS, flights were preety full.
 
ahlfors
Posts: 1281
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 1:44 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:49 pm

Looks like AC just kept on going and they got the problem fixed before they got to Brazil. Maybe they planned on diverting in CCS or somewhere in case Brazil didn't get their stuff working in time.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12423
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:16 pm

Saturday news reports here in the USA said the radar shutdown lasted about 2 hours. The situation as to airlines, airports, ATC in Brazil is becoming a crises in the minds of many, despite the relative high level of safety, that will severely hurt their economy as tourists and business visitors will decline to travel there in fear of those problems.
 
MeridianBUF
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:56 am

Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:16 am

So the Delta flight from Atlanta on Friday 20th July at night never arrived in GRU?
There seems to be conflicting information on some websites.
 
cloudyapple
Posts: 1261
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 4):
Outrage. . . .? I don't know what to call it. . .

We ATC call this an outage.
A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:59 am

Problem was solved within two hours. Electrical outage at MAO, not BSB. Many planes landed midway and then continued their flights.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
philzh
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 10:22 pm

RE: Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:31 am

Quoting Viasa (Reply 32):
Great, they have still Swissair arround there...

 cry 
How cruel of you to point it out, too.
 
sandrozrh
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:19 am

RE: Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting Viasa (Reply 32):
Great, they have still Swissair arround there

 rotfl  And they're not the only ones, even flightaware still has swissair Big grin
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 38):
Problem was solved within two hours. Electrical outage at MAO, not BSB. Many planes landed midway and then continued their flights.

So then MAO is the airport that "caused" the diversions then instead of BSB? Very unusual thing I would guess.

Boy do I hope that things make a change for the good in Brasil. I plan on flying there 3 times this next year into GRU for two of them and MAO/BVB for the other. They will need to get things fixed in their departments otherwise we will see American, Europe, Latin American buisnesses not wanting to go to Brasil anymore and seeing Brasilians not wanting to risk travels to America, Northern Brasil, or Europe.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13075
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 41):
So then MAO is the airport that "caused" the diversions then instead of BSB? Very unusual thing I would guess.

It makes sense if Manaus FIR covers a great part of Brazil's northern airspace. MAO is also the place where shorter ranged aircraft often perform en route fuel stops on the way to the US.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 41):
So then MAO is the airport that "caused" the diversions then instead of BSB? Very unusual thing I would guess.

I'd should have said Manaus ATC Center (CINDACTA-4) that controls traffic in the Northern/Amazonian region, not the airport itself.

My bad.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 43):
I'd should have said Manaus ATC Center (CINDACTA-4) that controls traffic in the Northern/Amazonian region, not the airport itself.

My bad.

That would make more sense. Thanks a lot PPVRA! So then was this power outage or was it someone hit something they shouldnt have?

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 42):
It makes sense if Manaus FIR covers a great part of Brazil's northern airspace. MAO is also the place where shorter ranged aircraft often perform en route fuel stops on the way to the US.

Yes, that would include TAM's flights to MIA correct?
Don't Tread On Me!
 
scxmechanic
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 1999 10:20 am

RE: Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:58 am

Any idea why DL 104 diverted while flying GRU-ATL? I can now understand why DL 61 dropped into SJU while enroute ATL-GIG.

[Edited 2007-07-21 20:59:28]
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 38):
Problem was solved within two hours. Electrical outage at MAO, not BSB. Many planes landed midway and then continued their flights.

Two AA flights landed in MAO and only departed early in the morning...

Rgs,
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:35 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 44):
So then was this power outage or was it someone hit something they shouldnt have?

Power apparently.

Quoting SCXmechanic (Reply 45):
Any idea why DL 104 diverted while flying GRU-ATL?

Because it flies right over MAO.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 46):
Two AA flights landed in MAO and only departed early in the morning...

Many flights didn't return all the way to their origin. The two AA flights at MAO you cited are examples.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:52 am

This is terrible. I don't think any country with an economy of consequence has a more messed up aviation system anywhere on earth. As much flak as Indonesian aviation gets, Brazil has been just a mess the past year or two, and it seems only to be getting worse. If this continues it won't be long before travel safety advisories are the like are issued.

Can someone from Brazil shed some light on why aviation there has gotten to be such a scramble lately?
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
scxmechanic
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 1999 10:20 am

RE: Breaking: Brasilia Loses All HR And Enroute Radar

Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:55 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 47):
Quoting SCXmechanic (Reply 45):
Any idea why DL 104 diverted while flying GRU-ATL?

Because it flies right over MAO.

DL 104 was already out of Brazillian airspace and heading North so why would they divert to SJU based on the fact that it flys right over MAO? Was it possibly to allow the semi-fresh diverted flight crew of DL 61 to take over and continue on to ATL? With the delays the crew of DL 61 could have been close to timing out on duty regs. ?