nycaross
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 11:43 pm

Tucson Flights To JFK And EWR

Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:00 pm

I was just wondering how B6 is doing with TUS-JFK flights and also how CO is doing with their flights
TUS-EWR. I sure hope that those flights are here to stay.
 
thirteenright
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:28 am

RE: Tucson Flights To JFK And EWR

Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:21 pm

Quoting Nycaross (Thread starter):
I was just wondering how B6 is doing with TUS-JFK flights and also how CO is doing with their flights
TUS-EWR. I sure hope that those flights are here to stay.

I dont think JFK-TUS is a good performer for B6. Loads arent great, I cant imagine that yield is that much better.
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: Tucson Flights To JFK And EWR

Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:28 pm

I can't say much about the B6 flight, except that it has cancelled quite a bit....due to ATC and weather in JFK. The CO EWR flight is full just about everyday. Usually 1 day a week or so it's light...booked to about 70-80 pax (out of 124), otherwise it's at at least 115. It is late constantly though, very bad performance that way. It will be going to daytime hours starting 9/5, 12:35pm departure. Then will go back to redeye in November I believe.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
DesertAir
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:34 am

RE: Tucson Flights To JFK And EWR

Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:16 am

I am not tempted to take trips on airlines with only one flight a day like B6. When there are problems, there are few alternatives. With CO at least they could rebook you through Houston or on a Skyteam connection.
 
laca773
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Tucson Flights To JFK And EWR

Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:21 pm

Does the E90s have the range, necessary payload to fly JFK-TUS-JFK nonstop? It sounds like an a/c change might help?

LACA773
 
piercey
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am

RE: Tucson Flights To JFK And EWR

Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:30 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 4):

Nice DP  Wink

Either way, it could technically do it (2136nm route vs 2400nm plane), but payload restrictions might come into play (someone more technical then me would know more)

piercey in CLE  Sad
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Tucson Flights To JFK And EWR

Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:52 pm

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 4):
Does the E90s have the range, necessary payload to fly JFK-TUS-JFK nonstop?



Quoting Piercey (Reply 6):

Either way, it could technically do it (2136nm route vs 2400nm plane), but payload restrictions might come into play (someone more technical then me would know more)

Incorrect distance. JFK-TUS is 1856nm. You used statute miles. It also happens to be just a hair shorter than YYZ-SAN, which has been run by AC on an E90. TUS is at a higher altitude than SAN, but SAN has significant runway and obstruction limitations, so they should be pretty much even on performance.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
piercey
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am

RE: Tucson Flights To JFK And EWR

Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:04 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):

Incorrect distance. JFK-TUS is 1856nm. You used statute miles.

Wow do I feel like an idiot....  Sad

Thanks for catching that.

Well then, the E90 would be perfect for that route, question is, would B6 be willing to send it that far away from home (IIRC, they meant to get the E90s for East coast routes)

piercey in CLE  Sad
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
777gk
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2000 3:04 am

RE: Tucson Flights To JFK And EWR

Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:33 pm

As I recall, Tucson's main strip is close to 11,000 feet long (may be more), which should allow virtually unrestricted 737-700 operations in most weather conditions. Tucson does not get quite as hot as Phoenix in the summertime, but the difference in field elevation (TUS is a fair bit higher) will make both airports behave similarly in terms of performance allowances.

To maximize an airplane's capability in the desert, you want to operate at the time of day when temperatures are at their lowest. In Tucson, this can be as much as a 40 degree difference between midday and midnight, so naturally redeyes are preferable with longer stage lengths using less capable equipment, like CO when EWR-TUS was 737-500 service.

I recall discussion that JFK-TUS would be a candidate for E90 service, but I'm not sure what came of that. Since such a route would certainly be pushing the limits of the E90's capability, you can bet that redeye timing would be kept all year long.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Tucson Flights To JFK And EWR

Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:42 pm

Quoting 777gk (Reply 9):
As I recall, Tucson's main strip is close to 11,000 feet long (may be more), which should allow virtually unrestricted 737-700 operations in most weather condition

Naturally. As it is, B6 uses the A320 on the route and doesn't appear to be having problems with it, despite having what are probably the shortest ranged A320-200s in the industry.

Quoting 777gk (Reply 9):

I recall discussion that JFK-TUS would be a candidate for E90 service, but I'm not sure what came of that. Since such a route would certainly be pushing the limits of the E90's capability, you can bet that redeye timing would be kept all year long.

Which makes sense for B6 anyway, given their penchant for redeye flights. If they did have the capacity for 2 flights, an A320 could easily be used to handle the daytime flight. Further, do you agree that the SAN/TUS comparison is valid, given the runway constraints at SAN offsetting the elevation to a decent extent. Further, the average high July temperature in TUS is under 100 degrees, which should be even lower if they choose a morning departure for a second flight.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
laca773
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:10 am

RE: Tucson Flights To JFK And EWR

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:11 pm

Quoting Piercey (Reply 5):

Nice DP

Thanks for the compliment. Btw, what's "DP"? Please forgive me if I'm a little slow right tonight..

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
Incorrect distance. JFK-TUS is 1856nm. You used statute miles. It also happens to be just a hair shorter than YYZ-SAN, which has been run by AC on an E90. TUS is at a higher altitude than SAN, but SAN has significant runway and obstruction limitations, so they should be pretty much even on performance.

Thanks for the information N1120A. I apreicate it. I had been thinking that the E90s can do JFK-TUS-JFK since they are flown to YYZ on AC from SAN & AC also utilizes them from PHX.

Does anyone know if B6 is looking into subbing the E90 in place of the 320. If the route isn't performing well, maybe this will be the right size a/c for them.
It might open up other possibilites for other carriers to use the larger Embraer's on their longer thin routes out of Tucson where they can capture the upper class (whe a two class E90/95, E70/75 is used) who getway to the TUS area and the snowbirds etc.. Just a thought.

LACA773
 
SANFan
Posts: 3671
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: Tucson Flights To JFK And EWR

Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:09 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
Incorrect distance. JFK-TUS is 1856nm. You used statute miles. It also happens to be just a hair shorter than YYZ-SAN, which has been run by AC on an E90. TUS is at a higher altitude than SAN, but SAN has significant runway and obstruction limitations, so they should be pretty much even on performance.



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 10):
I had been thinking that the E90s can do JFK-TUS-JFK since they are flown to YYZ on AC from SAN & AC also utilizes them from PHX.

However, there were discussions around January and April of this year about the use of the 190 between SAN and YYZ and supposedly AC was not too happy with it. It was mentioned that there were many (unscheduled) fuel stops on the w/b flights and many occasions of leaving pax and/or cargo in YYZ in order to (hopefully) reach SAN n/s. In fact it was said that the flight was re-scheduled as an A-319 starting April 1 due more to operational considerations than loads even though AC may have rather stayed with the smaller a/c all year, even scheduling 2x daily 190 flights for the summer, offering a choice of departure times!

This is my recollection and summary of rumors and hearsay; nothing official was announced to the best of my knowledge so please take it in that manner. Nevertheless, the SAN-YYZ stage length (1874nm and about 4.5 hours) certainly used a healthy chunk of the range of the E-jet and so would JFK-TUS!

I'm not really sure about B6's configuration and payload limits of their 190s, and I don't pretend to know about desert temperature and altitude effects on a/c performance but I would guess that westbound flights from JFK to TUS would often need to make an unscheduled fuel stop. This unfortunately is not a new concept to B6 (  Wink ) but perhaps one that they would just as soon not have to deal with if they could avoid it with careful a/c selection and/or flight scheduling!

bb

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