MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:31 am

I take it this route is dead in the water, and I still can't see why. Traffic at MSY is rebounding at a pretty good clip.

MSY-SFO was always a strong route for Trans-Pacific connections, as well as O&D traffic. Prior to Katrina it was running with a daily A320.

I cannot believe that demand has decreased to the point where one nonstop between the two cities is not possible. Does anyone have recent O&D figures between the Bay area and New Orleans? Anyone at UA know of the possibility of this route returning at some pointin the near future?

Someone has to know something!
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 1999 10:10 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:44 am

Steve, the local UA folks can't understand it either.....they've been expecting resumption of MSY-SFO for some time now. I'm wondering if UA's home office thinking is similar to that of WN's prior to their latest upgrades: the demand is obviously there, and they just have to figure out where to pull service from in order to provide that service. I guarantee we're pushing to get it back.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:52 am

While I realise you are a big MSY defender, I'm sure todays market is vastly different and smaller then pre-Katrina levels.

As far as UA, I'd say you are lucky the carrier still manages to operate MSY-LAX. I'm not too sure how well this even does for UA, as they have flipped back and forth from mainline to TED, along with adjusting capacity A319 vs A320 and also playing with the frequency.

At the end of the day, I'd say MSY has no higher or lower priority over many cities that in theory could be linked to SFO by UA. If anything its probably safer for an airline to sit out things yet another year to see how economics and traffic flow play out in the NO region.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
As far as UA, I'd say you are lucky the carrier still manages to operate MSY-LAX

I wouldn't say "lucky". LAX-MSY has always been a successful route.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
I'm not too sure how well this even does for UA,

Good enough to fly nonstop.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
At the end of the day, I'd say MSY has no higher or lower priority over many cities that in theory could be linked to SFO by UA

I'd put it in the higher echelon of the U.S cities which do not see SFO nonstop service. Top 5 at least.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15325
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 3):
I'd put it in the higher echelon of the U.S cities which do not see SFO nonstop service. Top 5 at least.

I personally think UA at SFO needs more frequency rather than new destinations. It's not a very big market...I'm sure UA sees the number of pax it connects over DEN or LAX and the fare they're paying and has a good reason for not adding it.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 1999 10:10 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
todays market is vastly different and smaller then pre-Katrina

'vastly different' yes.....in terms of a higher ratio of higher yield business travelers. 'vastly smaller' no.....somewhat smaller yes, gaining momentum every day with more and more major conventions returning, and the leisure market returning in droves. As we're being proved correct in predicting WN's return on a greater scale, methinks we'll be proven right again in this case  wink 

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 5):
methinks we'll be proven right again in this case

I would put $$$ on it.

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 5):
'vastly smaller' no.....somewhat smaller yes, gaining momentum every day with more and more major conventions returning, and the leisure market returning in droves

Truer words have never been spoken. Most of the restaurants in the CBD/Quarter/Warehouse District are seeing strong demand now from tourists on a daily basis....apparently it's getting better every week. And hotel occupancy is stong for a traditionally slow summer season. This Fall is supposed to be HUGE for the city in terms of conventions and the return of more cruise ships.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4460
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:47 am

I think MSY-SFO is just a matter of time for UA. I personally dont know why it isnt already in place. But UA has made some moves that I dont quite understand. Axing SFO-MSY was one removing all mainline from ORD-MIA was another.
It is what it is...
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 11516
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
I'm sure UA sees the number of pax it connects over DEN or LAX and the fare they're paying and has a good reason for not adding it.

However, UA doesn't see the folks who are flying NW (or AA) to Asia because they don't want to double connect...
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
I'm not too sure how well this even does for UA,


...apparently not, with statements such as:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
I'd say you are lucky the carrier still manages to operate MSY-LAX.

What continues to confound UA personele is the sporadic removal/addition of mainline on a route well known for its paid-First fares.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15325
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8):
However, UA doesn't see the folks who are flying NW (or AA) to Asia because they don't want to double connect...

True, however UA offers much better connections to Asia from MSY than either NW or AA, between ORD, IAD, and LAX. NW doesn't even connect MSY to any of its Asia flights with one stop. AA only offers NRT with one stop. One stop options with UA include HKG/NRT/PEK/PVG/SYD/KWI.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
NW doesn't even connect MSY to any of its Asia flights with one stop.

Indeed; with their cutback to single dailies on both DTW and MSP, CO actually offers more 1stops to Asia than does NW from here.



Something I'm wondering about is why we still have yet to receive any of our nonstops to LatAm (particularly AM and TA) considering the explosion in Hispanic population (both immigrant and non) here........ and they ain't all poor.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 11):
Indeed; with their cutback to single dailies on both DTW and MSP, CO actually offers more 1stops to Asia than does NW from here

NW's schedules from MSY used to look something like this...not too bad for a spoke station...and the originator to MEM was, more times than not, flown with an A320.

0620 MEM
0705 MSP (connections to NRT)
0910 DTW (connections to NRT/KIX/etc.)
1135 MEM
1215 DTW (connections to Europe)
1300 MSP
1550 MEM
1625 DTW
1725 MSP

Now, it looks like this...all DC9-30's except for the last MEM flight which is usually a D95....

0620 MEM
0910 DTW *flight operates seasonally....February through June*
1130 MEM
1636 MEM
1650 DTW
1745 MSP

The only thing that can be said for NW in MSY is that they are still all mainline...other than that, they don't have much going on. NW's market share here, of course, continues to decline every month it seems.

UA has historically received the most Asia-bound pax from MSY thanks in large part to the SFO nonstop....that thing was filled with connect pax to Asia every single day. Trust me...I used to watch the check-in of that flight every morning while I was working three counters down.

MSY has a large Vietnamese community which UA could cater to thanks to its service to SGN...but it'd be far easier for the pax to just do MSY-SFO-HKG-SGN rather than MSY-DEN-SFO-HKG-SGN....these people have a long trip ahead of them already...one more stop would only be more inconvenient.
 
UnitedTristar
Posts: 839
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 6:45 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 12):
MSY has a large Vietnamese community which UA could cater to thanks to its service to SGN...but it'd be far easier for the pax to just do MSY-SFO-HKG-SGN rather than MSY-DEN-SFO-HKG-SGN....these people have a long trip ahead of them already...one more stop would only be more inconvenient.

why not MSY ORD HKG SGN?

or even MSY LAX HKG SGN?

-m



[Edited 2007-07-24 00:42:57]
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15325
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:44 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 12):
but it'd be far easier for the pax to just do MSY-SFO-HKG-SGN

Why not MSY-ORD-HKG-SGN? There's not much you're missing (on UA to Asia) that you can't get over ORD, other than KIX/ICN/NGO/TPE. Of course that's assuming any of those Asian connections are worth taking, and NW seems to think not Wink
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:47 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Why not MSY-ORD-HKG-SGN?

Well I was thinking of it in terms of SFO-SGN same-plane service (is that still exists)....they'd only have to change planes once in SFO.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:53 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
While I realise you are a big MSY defender, I'm sure todays market is vastly different and smaller then pre-Katrina levels.

It is different. It sees more high yield passengers, both on the business and tourist end.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):

As far as UA, I'd say you are lucky the carrier still manages to operate MSY-LA

Lucky? It is their best performing route. If anything, the one route that is propped up is the ORD route, which has its O&D swallowed up by Amtrak and Southwest and is there because of the mega hub at ORD.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
I'm not too sure how well this even does for UA, as they have flipped back and forth from mainline to TED, along with adjusting capacity A319 vs A320 and also playing with the frequency.

According to the people at MSY for United, the route is by far the best performing one out of MSY, particularly for premium passengers. United's playing with capacity has been because of United's own short sighted reduction of domestic capacity, particularly domestic mainline capacity. With as strong, if not stronger, a film industry in New Orleans and Louisiana as a whole post-Katrina, the connection is vital and filled with money.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):

I personally think UA at SFO needs more frequency rather than new destinations.

MSY wouldn't exactly be a new destination

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
It's not a very big market..

San Francisco isn't? You are kidding, right?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):

Why not MSY-ORD-HKG-SGN?

You again have to double connect. MSY-SFO-HKG-SGN would be 2 plane service.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
You again have to double connect. MSY-SFO-HKG-SGN would be 2 plane service.

Walking from one HKG gate to another is an issue?

Anyhow all passengers must disembark in HKG, its not like you can sit on the aircraft waiting for the SGN departure.

However if this is such an issue, fly MSY-LAX as the SGN tag will be added to the LAX-HKG flight this fall.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:09 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 17):

However if this is such an issue, fly MSY-LAX as the SGN tag will be added to the LAX-HKG flight this fall

Hmmm, perhaps that is one of the reasons they are adding the tag to the reinstated LAX-HKG service.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Hmmm, perhaps that is one of the reasons they are adding the tag to the reinstated LAX-HKG service.

That could be. That flight will see a good amount of SGN-bound pax from MSY.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:29 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 11):
CO actually offers more 1stops to Asia than does NW from here.

...as does DL

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 12):
these people have a long trip ahead of them already

And a lot of them have been doing MSY-ATL-ICN-SGN as well: essentially the same distance and an easy connection.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15325
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:42 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
San Francisco isn't? You are kidding, right?

Nope...the local market SFO/MSY market is not big. Until recently BWI/SEA was the largest unserved O&D and I believe SFO/MSY is about a third to half as big.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
According to the people at MSY for United, the route is by far the best performing one out of MSY, particularly for premium passengers.

Flight crews and airport personnel are famously bad at estimating a route's performance. It's a Ted route, with plenty of one stop competition on WN to pressure the fares.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
You again have to double connect.

I don't think I indicated otherwise, unless you're getting a HKG nonstop that we don't know about.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:59 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
...the local market SFO/MSY market is not big.

How much is the O&D now then? Prior to 8/05, there was more than enough passengers to justify nonstop flights. I doubt seriously that SFO-MSY dropped off as much as BOS did. I want to say the O&D was over 400 pax/day when OAK and SFO were combined.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
It's a Ted route, with plenty of one stop competition on WN to pressure the fares.

I wouldn't say "plenty" of one stop competition from WN...they might have one direct flight per day now. They were more of a factor when they flew nonstop as well. Now, MSY-LAX traffic is dominated by UA and DL, which has been surprisingly successful in the market. Nonstop LAX-MSY has been a very strong route for decades.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Hmmm, perhaps that is one of the reasons they are adding the tag to the reinstated LAX-HKG service.



Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 19):
That could be. That flight will see a good amount of SGN-bound pax from MSY.

Trust me the SGN tag onto the upcoming LAX-HKG has absolutely nothing to do with MSY. Instead its has everything to do with the fact SoCal (Orange County) is home to the largest Vietnamese community in the US.

There are much larger pockets of Vietnamese diaspora in the US than MSY that lack even proper single carrier connectivity to their home country via LAX or SFO for that matter.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
iflyatldl
Posts: 1796
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:41 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:35 am

I've noticed everytime I take UA ATL-SFO-ATL(UA 351&790), it's always packed on a 319. So, there's obviously a lot of connecting coming out of that. They only do the one run a day, but it's jammed full. So MSY should be able hit that.
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 23):
Trust me the SGN tag onto the upcoming LAX-HKG has absolutely nothing to do with MSY

It may not directly have anything to do with it, but you better believe UA will enjoy the revenue by the frequent travelers flying from Southeast Louisiana to Vietnam. Even if just a couple of rows on the 744 are full because of MSY traffic, you better believe UAL will take notice of the traffic patterns.
 
MSYguy
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:46 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:31 pm

Quoting Iflyatldl (Reply 24):
There are much larger pockets of Vietnamese diaspora in the US than MSY that lack even proper single carrier connectivity to their home country via LAX or SFO for that matter.

I don't know. New Orleans' Vietnamese population is substantial:

Southern Region
According to the census figures, the Southern states possessed 335,679 persons of
Vietnamese origin in 2000, or just under 30% of the national total. Within the South, by
far the largest Vietnamese enclaves were documented in the Texas metropolitan areas of
Houston (63,924) and Dallas-Fort Worth (47,090) (Figure F). The Vietnamese
populations in these metro areas increased substantially from 1990 to 2000. The
4
enumerated Houston population was 32,964 in 1990. In Dallas, the 1990 population was
19,095. The increases in the enumerated population over the decade were 91% and 151%
in Houston and Dallas respectively. ******Other major Vietnamese communities in the South
were documented in the New Orleans (14,868)****; Oklahoma City (9,628); Tampa-St.
Petersburg-Clearwater (9,318); Austin, TX (8,641); Orlando (7,621) and Charlotte, NC
(6,033) metropolitan areas. The Florida, Texas, and North Carolina cities represent areas
of particular significant growth in the size of Vietnamese communities. Compared to the
enumerated figures in 1990, the Vietnamese populations in the Tampa, Austin and
Charlotte metros almost tripled. In Orlando, the enumerated Vietnamese community
doubled over the decade.

Here is the link:
http://hmongstudies.com/PfeiferReviewofVietnameseStudies2001.pdf
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4460
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting MSYguy (Reply 26):
I don't know. New Orleans' Vietnamese population is substantial:

New Orleans, DFW and Houston all have large Vietnamese populations, but compared to Los Angeles and Orange County they are tiny.
It is what it is...
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15325
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 22):
How much is the O&D now then?

BWI/SEA is about 300PDEW; SFO/MSY is about 65.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 28):
SFO/MSY is about 65.

...what about QSF/MSY?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
Does anyone have recent O&D figures between the Bay area and New Orleans?

Per faremeasure.com (daily passengers):
MSY-SFO: 123
MSY-SJC: 88
MSY-OAK: 198

http://www.faremeasure.com/Airport-New_Orleans_Louisiana.html

So, almost 400 daily passengers between MSY and the major Bay Area airports. Of course, WN probably has the lion's share to OAK, but it appears like there still would be opportunity for UA to fly SFO-MSY.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15325
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:08 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 30):
MSY-SFO: 123

By comparison, faremeasure shows BWI/SEA at about 445pdew.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 29):
...what about QSF/MSY?

About 210 total? These numbers are very rough, so it's best to look at them (as well as faremeasure) relative to each other rather than the actual number.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:42 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 31):
By comparison, faremeasure shows BWI/SEA at about 445pdew

Ok, but we're not talking about BWI.

SFO-MSY has historically been a route which has seen nonstop service despite it's average O&D totals. Add the drive in market from the OAK area, and you have over 300 pax/day. Add connections to that (which there would be a bunch), and the route would easily be successful.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15325
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 32):
Ok, but we're not talking about BWI.

All I'm saying is that a market that is over three times bigger just just recently got nonstop service.

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 32):
Add connections to that (which there would be a bunch), and the route would easily be successful.

I'm not convinced you gain any meaningful unique connections over SFO, including to Asia, that you don't currently have access to now. Are there any significant business ties between MSY and Asia?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 33):
All I'm saying is that a market that is over three times bigger just just recently got nonstop service

I understand that. But SFO-MSY has been a nonstop route for years, even if others have higher local traffic. It was proven to be successful by its longevity. I'm sure it'll be back at some point.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 33):
Are there any significant business ties between MSY and Asia?

Well I know some of the shipping companies and other energy related businesses based in the city have operations in Asia which provides some traffic, but most of the demand is just a significant amount of general traffic (families going to visit families, etc) I would say. You see a lot of workers from ocean freighters disembarking in NOLA to fly back home....from what I have witnessed, these folks are either from Asia or Eastern Europe generally. When I was with NW back in '02 we had around 20 bags destined for Kiev on the 1220pm DTW nonstop everyday to connect via AMS.
 
as739x
Posts: 5008
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 34):

I think you just need to be patient with the airlines and adding new service to MSY. It still in recovery mode and things will get back on track. The SFO service I think will return in due time. United will see the light, we hope.

With all due respect. I think your really streching on Vietnamese population and traffic. New orleans doesn't hold a up to The Bay Area and L.A areas. as you can see here. My wife (whom is Vietnamese) , lives in Houston. Her VN friends do the drive to Orleans often for family and I asked about New Orleans. Fact is the population is only around 7,000.

City Percentage Number Note
San Jose, California 8.8 78,842 In Bay Area
Santa Ana, California 5.7 19,226 In Orange County
Anaheim, California 3.1 10,025 In Orange County
Arlington, Texas 2.9 9,606
San Diego, California 2.2 27,473
Oakland, California 2.2 8,657 In Bay Area
Seattle, Washington 2.1 11,943
Portland, Oregon 2.0 10,641
Wichita, Kansas 2.0 6,859
Boston, Massachusetts 1.8 10,818
Houston, Texas 1.7 32,261
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma 1.6 8,161 In Asia District
New Orleans, Louisiana 1.5 7,118
Sacramento, California 1.5 6,171
San Francisco, California 1.4 10,722 In Bay Area
Honolulu, Hawaii 1.2 5,978
Long Beach, California 1.1 5,074 Near Orange County
Fort Worth, Texas 1.0 5,415
St. Louis, Missouri 1.0 3,319


ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 35):
I think you just need to be patient with the airlines and adding new service to MSY

Well, I think I generally am patient....I just think this is a route which should have been started a long time ago, as it does provide a key link to Asia, the Pacific Northwest, and the large and prosperous Bay area in general. More than enough traffic to fill an Airbus.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 35):
With all due respect. I think your really streching on Vietnamese population and traffic. New orleans doesn't hold a up to The Bay Area and L.A areas

I never compared the VIET population of NOLA to L.A or S.F. I just said the population is pretty sizeable and the people travel frequently. There's more demand between SE LA and Asia than most people realize. You'd never hear me plead for a nonstop to NRT or something, but demand is very constant and steady year-round.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 35):
Fact is the population is only around 7,000.

What "fact" do you purport that to be?

Every tangible measure both before and after the storm shows their population to be well into the double digits--- and that's just the foreign-born.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15325
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 35):
My wife (whom is Vietnamese) , lives in Houston

We have a whole Vietnamese 'hood down hurre...it's a couple blocks from downtown and suddenly all the signs are in Vietnamese. It allegedly is a big driver in CI's onestop service to TPE, which easily connects to HAN/SGN.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:37 am

"...the majority of the 25,000 Vietnamese in Louisiana reside in the New Orleans area."

http://www.neworleansonline.com/newo...lticulturalhistory/vietnamese.html

The proof is in the pudding!  Wink
 
as739x
Posts: 5008
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:58 am

here you go...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ge_Vietnamese_American_populations


In my opinion if there was a market there, why wouldn't the airlines do it? Before and after the hurricane? I'm just speaking my opinion here guys, I don't want this as a childish argument thread since I respect you guys. But i just don't see the airlines (mainly United) not noticing this. When they started SGN service, I'm would think they would have looked the cities with the largest travelling Vietnamese population.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
MSYtristar
Topic Author
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 40):
In my opinion if there was a market there, why wouldn't the airlines do it?

I guess that could be said of any number of markets across the U.S, and I guess the answers range from "we haven't got around to it yet" to "we don't think it would be profitable" to anywhere in between. My whole thing is, it was at least a "successful" market for the past few decades (and by successful meaning that it was good enough to see nonstop service since the days of National), and I really don't see how that could have changed all that much, with the passenger counts being pretty much equal to what they were before the storm.

In the end, I think UA will add the route.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 40):
here you go...

Come on. It's wikipedia we're talking about here.  Smile
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:14 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 40):
In my opinion if there was a market there, why wouldn't the airlines do it?

Several reasons:
  • fleet limitations, due to assignment on more/equally-lucrative markets
  • fiscal limitations, (re)starting the station
  • labor limitations... which is a big problem for most business in NOLA currently, but I doubt WN
  • risk aversion
  • etc


    A prime example would be WN's MSY-BHM:
    no one on either side could understand how WN could continue to ignore such a proven market with considerable demand even after the storm-- with everything from local businesses sending WN copies of (the frequency of) their itineraries routed on other carriers, to public calls by politicians to reinstate the route. XJT heard, and re-opened the route to considerable success. WN finally readded their service, with multiple frequencies, nearly two years later-- and the planes are going out packed.
  • Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    LAXdude1023
    Posts: 4460
    Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

    RE: United MSY-SFO Nonstop Service

    Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:39 am

    Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 41):
    Come on. It's wikipedia we're talking about here.

    But nonetheless the only huge pockets of Vietnameese in the US are: The Bay Area, Southern California, and Houston. The others arent really significant enough to warrant any kind of consideration on an individual level.
    It is what it is...