pilatusguy
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:21 am

Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:43 am

I'm surprised this didn't show up yet.

Today an experimental plane (this one: http://www.experimental.ch/content/view/22/2/) crashed into a building near BSL.

The plane was supposed to fly non-stop to Oshkosh, therefore having 1'700 litres of fuel on board. The pilot did not survive this accident.

Link only in german:
http://www.tagi.ch/dyn/news/schweiz/774448.html
 
RJ100
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:55 am

Another picture is here, it really looks quite scary as it was in the middle of a living area.

http://www.baz.ch/_images/news/KvRauch.jpg

The pilot started with a special permission of the BAZL authorities with the obligation not to bank to the left/right after takeoff. Obviously his plane was really heavy...

The plane crashed into a living area and missed a kindergarden (with many kids at this time in a summer camp) only by meters. Nearby is also a hospital, old people's residence and a large public swim bath.

I think today everyone was lucky that it took only 1 live and not 10 or 100.
none
 
AllegiantAir
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Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:39 pm

RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting Pilatusguy (Thread starter):
this one: http://www.experimental.ch/content/view/22/2/) crashed into a building near BSL.

You are not authorised to view this resource.
You need to login

It won't let me see the pic, so what's the plane like? How many engines/propellers?
Live to Fly.
 
RJ100
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:03 am

You can see some pictures here:

http://www.eapforum.ch/showthread.php?t=2337
none
 
AllegiantAir
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 3):

Thanks!

Wow, as much as I love planes, I'd be afraid to fly in that thing all the way across the Atlantic Ocean. Claustrophobia!
 scared 
Live to Fly.
 
KPDX
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:16 am

Here's the story in English: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/23/world/main3087865.shtml

http://www.aeroexplorer.biz/aboutus/index.php3

Wow, a pretty well known pilot! So sad to see that his long awaited trip was ended so quickly.  

RIP

KPDX

[Edited 2007-07-23 21:17:54]
View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
 
icna05e
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 11:11 pm

RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:33 am

Impressive. So that's the result of 1700 liters of fuel hitting the ground. Poor guy he did not have any chance of getting out of that.
He had set an impressive series of records nonetheless. I would like to hear what was the cause for the crash.
 
sandrozrh
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting Icna05e (Reply 6):
I would like to hear what was the cause for the crash.

Apparently, eyewittnesses reported that there was debris falling off the aircraft shortly after departure, and that the aircraft seemed to have difficulties to gain altitude.

Also, the departure was originally scheduled for saturday, but due to technical problems it was moved to today.
 
SEPilot
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting KPDX (Reply 5):
Here's the story in English: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...shtml

This article states that the plane had 450 gallons of kerosene, and yet identifies the engine maker as Lycoming. To the best of my knowledge Lycoming does not yet build an engine that runs on kerosene; the pictures on the site posted earlier look like it has a piston engine. It could be a Thielert, but that is not made by Lycoming. Anyone know what engine it actually had?
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
SRMD11
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:18 am

Hello Friends

My pager alarmed me because I'm member in a emergency organisation in the city of Basel. I arrived around 1h after the crash at the location. I can tell you: It is a miracle that not more people have been killed or injured. The plane damaged a long building. Parts incl. the pilots body hit a children's playground. Only a few meters away, 19 Kids where playing... Nobody of them have been injured. Thank's god! The heavy engine block was laying on the roofs top. Most of the wreck parts are collected and will be brought into a hangar of the Airport Basle-Mulhouse.

The Plane lost parts all ready during take off. It seems that the pilot was guided by megalomania - obsessive driven to get into the books of records... for me (and for many other also), such pilots only want to satisfy their ego and risk the life's of others. I don't feel sorry for him. Remember: There are no "good" pilots because the "good" pilots are all 6ft down.. But I feel sorry for those who lost there homes - they have to stay the next night in a shelter of the civil service organisation - maybe some are more lucky and the can stay with friends.

All in all - aviation is fantastic. But it has a dark side too - The crazy hunt for stupid records...

Some info about the flight:

http://www.aeroexplorer.biz/The_Pola...cumentation_The_Polar_Frontier.pdf
 
RJ100
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:35 am

Good post SRMD11

Today around noon it was quite hot in Basel, does anyone know how much runway this aircraft needed? As the runway in BSL is longer than in ZRH could this be a reason why he took off from BSL? If yes, he must have known that take-off will be tough but still took the risk.

Anyway, now we have the problem. Tomorrow and in the coming weeks the newspapers will be full with the anti-airport gang that already screams up now when a MasKargo or Korean Air 747 departs low but safe.
none
 
longhaulheavy
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:02 am

I am a Wisconsin native, but am not living there right now. I had completely forgotten about the EAA starting this week, but then I got this reminder. It seems there are at least a couple like this every year.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting Longhaulheavy (Reply 11):
I am a Wisconsin native

Being 30 miles east of St. Paul, Minnesota, I see hundreds of aircraft flying over town en route to Oshkosh every year. Yesterday, a Lockheeds 12A flew over at 2000 ft. AGL:

Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
Jerald01
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 9):
All in all - aviation is fantastic. But it has a dark side too - The crazy hunt for stupid records...

"Stupid records"... what a strange way to put it. If it were not for people who quest for "stupid records", as some people call them, very little advancement would be made in any field of endeavor, be it athletics, business, aviation, education, or whatever. Mankind reaches for the better, the higher, the faster, the bigger, not because of an inate desire to set records, but because of an inate desire to excel. Take that away from humanity and we become nothing more than animals. Few among us would want that.
"There may be old pilots, and there may be bold pilots, but there are darn few green cows"
 
Alessandro
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:05 pm

I read that this was the 2nd flight with this aircraft, first with it fully tanked, is this true?
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
arffguy
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:43 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 8):
This article states that the plane had 450 gallons of kerosene, and yet identifies the engine maker as Lycoming. To the best of my knowledge Lycoming does not yet build an engine that runs on kerosene

Actually Avco -Lycoming (Textron) makes several (turboshaft) helicopter engines that run on Kerosene (Jet fuel) such as the Huey's, Chinooks and BK117's.
Time to spare, go by air.
 
DeC
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:50 pm

So, anyone have a clear photo of the aircraft? Some of the links above show 2 aircrafts, others are missing and can't be found etc etc.

Thanks
DEC
 
ltbewr
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:57 pm

It is too bad that the airport he was taking off from has so much development near it with it's risks. Fortuntally, only the pilot died. I would assume the pilot knew the risks, he was extremely experienced in flying in general and in expirmental flights. We assume that he and his associates prepared for these flights as throughly as possible. I do hope an investigation determines what went wrong here. RIP to the pilot.
 
britannia191a
Posts: 229
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:07 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 17):
Fortuntally, only the pilot died

I think that could have been phrased better. Think before you type



http://old.experimental.ch/SwissMade/HG_Schmid/welcome.htm

This i think could be the plane

[Edited 2007-07-24 13:11:30]
 
infodesk
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:10 pm

Tragic accident yet incredible that more people weren't killed.

I remember watching an interview on Tele M1 with the pilot a few months back and he was obviously so excited about all that lay ahead. RIP and strength to his family.  pray 
"Do nothing in haste, look well to each step and from the beginning think what may be the end" - Edward Whymper
 
RussianJet
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:17 pm

Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 9):
I don't feel sorry for him.



Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 9):
The crazy hunt for stupid records...

That's pretty harsh when we don't know exactly what happened.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
britannia191a
Posts: 229
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:23 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 20):
don't feel sorry for him.



Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 9):
The crazy hunt for stupid records...

I think you should be banned for saying such a thing. How disgraceful and disrespectful. May he rest in peace. He did what he loved doing and thats all that matters. It could have been worse and it could have been any aircraft any time. Just because it was an experimental plane doesnt exempt other aircraft crashing.

He probably achieved more in his life and got more out of life then you, so keep stupid comments like that to yourself.

RIP - God rest his soul

[Edited 2007-07-24 13:26:08]
 
SEPilot
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:29 pm

Quoting Arffguy (Reply 15):

Actually Avco -Lycoming (Textron) makes several (turboshaft) helicopter engines that run on Kerosene (Jet fuel) such as the Huey's, Chinooks and BK117's.

I did not know that; but I will assume that one of them was not powering this plane. Which leaves my original question unanswered; the cowling certainly looks like it was for a piston engine, not a turbine.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
sandrozrh
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:30 pm

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 21):
He probably achieved more in his life and got more out of life then you

What a mature thing to say, i think you should be banned for saying that  Yeah sure
 
RussianJet
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 21):
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 20):
don't feel sorry for him.

Those are not my words - please be careful who and how you quote.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
RJ100
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:38 pm

The pilot indeed had a big career, flying Swissair planes for his entire life, even the MD-11. But if I read media reports today and also first reactions of the BAZL authorities then this pilot made many errors and took a too high risk. For instance his plane collapsed yesterday before he took off and they needed to put some metal plates into the aircraft to stabilisize the whole thing. Also he used nearly 3900 meters runway for his takeoff (!) and came out very flat and low.

As much as I love aviation...I can understand SRMD11's post. With such a strange plane that has problems to fly it is a bit risky. I am sure the pilot knew the risks but still risked the life of others...
none
 
SRMD11
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:48 pm

RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:44 pm

Hey Guys - just flame me for what I said - I don't care! I was over several hours at the place where the disaster happened. I saw the people who had to leave their homes - face to face... and I saw also the pilots body - black roasted... Believe me -not a nice view. I'm able to judge how much luck in this accident played a role... Today, the first details came up. The Pilot used almost the whole runway length. There is no doubt, that the Pilot made several wrong decisions... and for what please? only to get another world record!
 
RussianJet
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:06 pm

Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 26):
Hey Guys - just flame me for what I said - I don't care! I was over several hours at the place where the disaster happened. I saw the people who had to leave their homes - face to face... and I saw also the pilots body - black roasted... Believe me -not a nice view.

Mate, I for one am not going to 'flame' you, I merely said it was a bit harsh to say that about the dead guy. I understand you were there and can imagine it must have been a truly nasty scene - not nice for anyone to see. I would just say this - wrong decisions or not, silly mistakes or not, I doubt that the guy set out to do anyone any harm. I hope the people who were affected by this crash will get the help they need, and hats off to you for playing your part in that. As far as 'flaming' goes, I'd be more inclined to flame those who misquote me than to flame you.

Peace.  Smile
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
SRMD11
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:18 pm

For those who are interested in a update:

The damaged building, a long four block Apartment house is for half a year uninhabitable. It can't be excluded, that the building must be rebuild completely new. After the engine Block was removed by a heavy crane last night, a local construction company was assigned to build a huge tubular frame roof on the top of the Building. They started this morning with the first preparations. The Area is -- of course - still locked for the public.

89 People are registered, living in this flat. Partly, this people are dislocated to Hotels of Basel. The will get also other support of any kind by the local government authorities.

The number of injured people raised up to 13 during the windy and rainy night. At least we have two injured residents, two members of the fire brigade and nine (!) members of the police force. Some of them have suffered during night protection service because of breath difficulties. It seems, there was still bad air around.
 
KPDX
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:38 am

Here is the plane. (Not the Connie of course).

RJ100 posted already earlier:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c326/KPDX/HG.Schmid0091.jpg

More pictures here: http://www.eapforum.ch/showthread.php?t=2337

Also, even more, better pics here: http://www.experimental.ch/content/view/22/2/

KPDX  

[Edited 2007-07-24 17:45:48]
View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
 
AllegiantAir
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 12):

Lucky!!! Every year during Airventure, my home airport AXN gets about 2-3 IFR planes headed to OSH.
Live to Fly.
 
RJ100
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:06 am

A video of the departure can be seen here. In my opinion you can see the problems already...this thing looks completely overloaded during takeoff. Today the authorities said that this aircraft never flew with maximum take-off weight before. How on earth could they give the permission for a flight with even more weight???

http://www.sf.tv/var/videoplayer.php...eotext/164120/&rubrik=sftagesschau
none
 
KPDX
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 31):

Holy crap! Lmao just slightly overloaded. Its not very funny, but jeez, that thing didnt even get like 5 feet off the ground, poor guy. If I were him I would of straightened the plane out for as far as I could go then build speed then pull up.

KPDX  

[Edited 2007-07-24 19:26:16]
View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
 
GBan
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 27):
I would just say this - wrong decisions or not, silly mistakes or not, I doubt that the guy set out to do anyone any harm.

True, but sometimes that is not enough - especially when flying an aircraft that potentially can do a lot of harm; the guy who killed my brother when driving drunk didn't have an intentions to do any harm either.

I can understand that people are upset about an obvious lack of responsability.

Anyway: RIP
 
RussianJet
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting GBan (Reply 33):
True, but sometimes that is not enough - especially when flying an aircraft that potentially can do a lot of harm; the guy who killed my brother when driving drunk didn't have an intentions to do any harm either.

I can understand that people are upset about an obvious lack of responsability.

So can I to an extent, and I do not excuse his mistakes - but I do still feel sorry for him. Also, I'm sorry you have been affected directly by the actions of drink-drivers - but I'm afraid I don't agree with the analogy. Sorry to hear you have been affected by drink-driving in the way you have. It's a despicable crime and have witnessed the consequences myself first hand, but I'm afaid I don't buy it as an appropriate analogy here. Anyway, I shall say no more on the matter. This accident is a terrible pity for all concerned.
✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
 
User avatar
chrisnh
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 10):
There are no "good" pilots because the "good" pilots are all 6ft down

What the H does THAT mean?
 
RJ100
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:21 am

I don't know either but all I can say is that I did not write this although it says "QUOTE: RJ100".  Sad
none
 
David L
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:41 am

Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 26):
The Pilot used almost the whole runway length. There is no doubt, that the Pilot made several wrong decisions... and for what please? only to get another world record!

If it had been the aircraft shown here:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 3):
You can see some pictures here:

http://www.eapforum.ch/showthread.ph...=2337

... then it would have been rather ironic, given the way Lindbergh struggled into the air on his record-braeking flight.

Quoting KPDX (Reply 29):
Not the Connie of course

That would have been a double tragedy. I admit my heart skipped a beat when I thought the Connie had crashed.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 35):
Quoting RJ100 (Reply 10):
There are no "good" pilots because the "good" pilots are all 6ft down

What the H does THAT mean?

I suspect it's a variation on "there are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are no old, bold pilots".
 
motopolitico
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:11 am

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 21):
I think you should be banned for saying such a thing.

I am frankly more sympathetic to the first responder community in this case than I am to the man who endangered the lives of many who never heard of him or his world record attempt.

Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 28):
The number of injured people raised up to 13 during the windy and rainy night.

Pilots have a sacred trust to put the safety of innocents first. What has all but killed General Aviation's accessibility to the common man is the same thing that will kill Experimental Aviation, too. It is pilots valuing their pride or hubris or just wanting to get home so much that they ignore their own safety and that of others, AND FLY WHEN THEY SHOULD NOT FLY. All it takes to spoil it for the rest of us is the worst, most arrogant .001% of all pilots and a handful of lawyers. The previous generation did it for General Aviation, and Experimental Aviation will be next unless we are careful. I am not happy that he is dead, but I am grateful that he did not compound this tragedy of his own making by killing others. My thoughts and prayers are of those whose homes are destroyed and any next of kin.
Garbage stinks; trash don't!
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:04 am

Quoting KPDX (Reply 32):
Holy crap! Lmao just slightly overloaded. Its not very funny, but jeez, that thing didnt even get like 5 feet off the ground, poor guy. If I were him I would of straightened the plane out for as far as I could go then build speed then pull up.

From the video it looks like that's what he did. The angle of attack increases but the plane doesn't get any higher and starts to lose speed so you can see him let go to speed up. Once out of ground effect the rate of climb must have been very low and eventually he ran out of space. I think that if he had had enough clear space he would probably have got away as the part of the building that he hit was fairly high which would seem to indicate that he was climbing. Accidents like this are a reminder never to risk flying overweight. I remember seeing a video on here of another accident with an overweight light aircraft in Colombia and after seeing that I always make sure to look at the weight and balance when I go flying even if I think that I am within limits. It is a great shame and I feel very sorry for the pilots, his friends and family as well as the people affected on the ground.
 
KPDX
Posts: 2371
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:04 am

RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:42 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 20):
That's pretty harsh when we don't know exactly what happened.

Agreed, even though it looks obvious about what went on, doesnt mean we know what happened exactly.

What if a passenger jet crashes over a neighboorhood? Are you going to call him stupid to?  sarcastic 

KPDX  Smile
View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
 
RJ100
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:45 pm

Newspapers today report that investigations indeed are running about the overweight... One newspaper reports that after fuel he had 92 kgs of weight left for all the rest! The pilot's weight alone is probably around 100kg (he's not slim), then he had bags with food, water, maps and all the other equipment PLUS they added metal plates (a few 100 kgs? ) just before he took off.

In my opinion this case also shows the problems of the BAZL authorities which is said to have strong connections with the former Swissair/Aeropers staff. I am sure this former Swissair pilot had excellent connections with his buddies there and only got the permission for this flight due to his connections. Once again: This aircraft never flew before with maximum take-off weight and then he received a permission for an overweight flight! Also Basel tower and Strasbourg ATC proposed a take-off on rwy34 which leads over fields and forests (and not over living areas) but it was rejected by the pilot.

In Switzerland every truck driver needs to do more tests and needs to get more permissions...and gets punished if he drives for more than 8 hours or so...
none
 
SRMD11
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:48 pm

RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:28 pm

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 41):
In my opinion this case also shows the problems of the BAZL authorities which is said to have strong connections with the former Swissair/Aeropers staff.

I agree 100% ! and let me extend: It's not good that the office for Flight accidents (BFU) is part of this organisation too. How can be a propper, neutral investigation be guarantee? People know each other there... And some people of the BAZL will have to answer in the future not comfortable questions... Will this questions be asked? Maybe, the strong ties of friendship in this network will avoid, that the whole truth will be known.

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 41):
Also Basel tower and Strasbourg ATC proposed a take-off on rwy34 which leads over fields and forests (and not over living areas) but it was rejected by the pilot.

If this is really true and there was also additional, not permitted overweight, then I must say, this Pilot was a fool... It's a shame to bring casual bystanders life in danger only because to satisfy his own ego. This Pilot did not deserved being glorified like some people / press is doing it... and it's a shame too, that our newspapers are full with storys about the record attempt. There are just few reports about the destiny of people who lost their home - Indeed - I did not found one report!
 
swissy
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RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:14 pm

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 21):
He probably achieved more in his life and got more out of life then you, so keep stupid comments like that to yourself.

I hardly call his "records" achievement...... perhaps satisfying his ego, yes

SRMD11,

could not agree more and I am sure "our" BAZL will have to explain a lot.......

Lets hope "we" all learned a lesson from that, it is just a miracle no one else got killed.......
 
SRMD11
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:48 pm

RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 21):
He probably achieved more in his life and got more out of life then you

You are right! Britannia191A !!!  Yeah sure

He achieved to bring innocent lifes of 19 Kids in danger, damaged a 40 Appartment Block, made 89 Poeple homeless and produced cost's of several millions.  Sad

I am glad that I'm different... So let me use your words for you:

Quoting Britannia191A (Reply 21):
keep stupid comments like that to yourself.
 
SRMD11
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:48 pm

RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting Swissy (Reply 43):
Lets hope "we" all learned a lesson from that

Police, Fire brigade, Civil Protection Service, Rescue Teams, Air Ambulance, Special Investigation Service and many others worked hand in hand - they learned this lesson all ready before in similar drills. Thats why, the management of the disaster was so smooth.

But I'm not so confident if others will learn their lesson... Pilots? BAZL?

Sure is: This accident will give the local opposition against the BSL/MLH airport an enormous lift. Thats bad because these guys are almost against every improvement which makes life more easy in the region. They will drop now everything in the same pot and cook it up!  stirthepot  and some medias will serve it hotter, than it was cocked... what a meal...

 spit 
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 45):
But I'm not so confident if others will learn their lesson... Pilots? BAZL?

That is my point..............  Wink

Quoting SRMD11 (Reply 45):
Sure is: This accident will give the local opposition against the BSL/MLH airport an enormous lift. Thats bad because these guys are almost against every improvement which makes life more easy in the region. They will drop now everything in the same pot and cook it up! and some medias will serve it hotter, than it was cocked... what a meal...

That is the dilemma now, I know living around airports can be dangerous and accidents happen but stuff like that??? I do not think so....

Cheers,
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6408
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:39 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 8):
This article states that the plane had 450 gallons of kerosene, and yet identifies the engine maker as Lycoming. To the best of my knowledge Lycoming does not yet build an engine that runs on kerosene; the pictures on the site posted earlier look like it has a piston engine. It could be a Thielert, but that is not made by Lycoming. Anyone know what engine it actually had?

It was a homebuilt experimental aircraft made for breaking records by a man with 160 records already in the book. I think that Lycoming would be more than happy to provide an experimental engine to such a project.

It was definitely a diesel engine. Aviation diesel engines normally run on jet fuel in order to avoid the fuel freezing at altitude. In 2007 nobody would try long distance records with a gasoline engine. Diesel delivers that more punch per lb of fuel which is needed for breaking records. Charles Lindberg would also have chosen a diesel engine today.

I am guessing. I don't know any details about this project. But I would bet that I am right. But I would bet no greater amount than I could afford to lose.

But BSL is not a place for such a high risk record flight to take off. It should happen at some (military) airfield out in the wilderness. Yes, I know they are hard to find in Switzerland, especially when elevation has to be as close as possible to sea level. Even their air force bases seem to be placed almost in the middle of towns.

This tragic accident seems to be the result of a risky, heavy overweight take off with a fragile experimental aircraft. When Dick Rutan and Jeane Yeager circumnavigated the Earth 19 years ago, then the same fate could easily have happened to them. They knew they were playing high risk, but they had better luck. And they chose a better airfield, the Edwards Air Base.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:27 am

Quoting Prebennorholm (Reply 47):
It was definitely a diesel engine. Aviation diesel engines normally run on jet fuel in order to avoid the fuel freezing at altitude. In 2007 nobody would try long distance records with a gasoline engine. Diesel delivers that more punch per lb of fuel which is needed for breaking records. Charles Lindberg would also have chosen a diesel engine today.

I am guessing. I don't know any details about this project. But I would bet that I am right. But I would bet no greater amount than I could afford to lose.

You might just lose that bet, according to Lycoming, the engine in the plane that Schmid had planned to fly on his Trans Polar circumnavigation (and I am assuming that it is the same aircraft/engine combination) was a Lycoming IO-580-B1A and that is a petrol burning spark ignition engine.

I find it likely that the early news report was written by a reporter that assumed all aircraft run on kerosene.. just as there are many that report on airliner crashes as being "crammed full of highly volatile AvGas"

I find it sad when people die persuing their dreams but this venture did not seem all that well thought out.

Cheers
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
 
RJ100
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Plane Crashes Into Building Near BSL

Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:26 pm

It's now also confirmed that the pilot had the wind in the back during take-off while the tower proposed him to take off on rwy34 against the wind (which was rejected by the pilot).
none

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