HVNandrew
Topic Author
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

"Pan Am" Drops HVN

Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:13 am

About five months after starting service.

Not a surprise.

http://www.nhregister.com/site/news....=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=590581&rfi=6
 
ScottB
Posts: 5446
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:21 am

Quoting HVNandrew (Thread starter):
About five months after starting service.

I'm glad I was sitting down when I read this because otherwise I would have fallen over in shock...

 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
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RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:26 am

They need to just shut down the operation permanently. Flying J31's to Elmira and Portsmouth and Bedford is not the way to make money.
 
Mainland
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:17 pm

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:38 am

It looks like this will mean the end of service to BWI too.

Again.
You don't need a passport to know what state you're in...
 
freshlove1
Posts: 1245
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:38 pm

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 2):
They need to just shut down the operation permanently. Flying J31's to Elmira and Portsmouth and Bedford is not the way to make money.

They are not in it to make money. The parent company is a railroad company and they need the airline to lose money so they can get a tax write off. Pan Am never stays around anywhere for to long and there have never really been any routes that made consistant money. The only real money making section of the airline is their charter operations.
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:21 pm

Was it their 737s that were supposed to serve Tunica MS from Atlanta? If not whom and is i still going?
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:22 pm

Was it their 737s that were supposed to serve Tunica MS from Atlanta? If not whom and is it still going?
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:35 pm

Quoting M404 (Reply 6):
Was it their 737s that were supposed to serve Tunica MS from Atlanta? If not whom and is it still going?

The current Pan Am never has had 737's. Its an all 727-200 operation, of which I believe a lot are ex-UA aircraft?. I'm not sure if they are still flying ATL-Tunica? They were last year though, I know that.
 
iaddca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:36 am

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:29 pm

No surprise, like Pilgrim Airways, Air Wisconsin, United, and Comair before them, Pan Am has just learned about the New Haven curse.

I recently looked at booking a flight into HVN on Orbitz, and Continental had me routed through EWR with a connection on Amtrak.

I think Larry DeNardis should stop trying to build up Tweed, and work more with the state officials who are trying to gain control of Bridgeport's airport. BDR could realistically serve Connecticut's only thriving office market in Stamford. It's the same distance from Midtown Manhattan as SWF, and its sits out in the sound, unlike HPN which is surrounded by $2 million homes in Greenwich and Westchester. Rename it New York - Sikorsky (f*** the Port Authority if they don't like it), and start recruiting some Dash-8 services to PHL, EWR, and IAD, while working on getting 11/29 extended 2000 feet for RJs, 737s, and A320s.
 
Pintail
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:41 pm

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:18 pm

HVN needs a resumption of DCA service. Prior to 9-11, US Expresst flew 3x per day on weekdays, and the Dash8's were full. I believe Sen. Lieberman and Rep. DeLauro took these flights routinely. HVN could pick up other services when the runway safety zones are built, and Dodge Ave. is relocated...dash8- -400 services?
 
Humberside
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RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:27 am

I take it TTN-Bedford must do well for Pan Am since it seems to be one of the few routes which has been around for a while
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4422
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 8):
No surprise, like Pilgrim Airways, Air Wisconsin, United, and Comair before them, Pan Am has just learned about the New Haven curse.

American, Eastern, and Allegheny, too, if you go back a bit farther.

The Bridgeport proposal might work; you'd think something would.
 
positiverate
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RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 8):
No surprise, like Pilgrim Airways, Air Wisconsin, United, and Comair before them, Pan Am has just learned about the New Haven curse.

Pilgrim and NewAir (NewHaven Air) did well there in those days. Remember though that they were all folded into the BusinessExpress operation as Delta Connection, which then was bought up by American Eagle as I recall.
 
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YNGguins
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RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:53 am

I view Pan Am as an abomination in the aviation industry. The owner is a joke, the airline is a joke, the planes are old, and they never stay in a city more than 6 months. NO AIRPORT SHOULD ALLOW THEM TO COME INTO THEIR CITY!
I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
 
iaddca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:36 am

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting Pintail (Reply 9):



Quoting Pintail (Reply 9):
HVN needs a resumption of DCA service. Prior to 9-11, US Expresst flew 3x per day on weekdays, and the Dash8's were full. I believe Sen. Lieberman and Rep. DeLauro took these flights routinely. HVN could pick up other services when the runway safety zones are built, and Dodge Ave. is relocated...dash8- -400 services?

One thing that might hurt that is Acela, which wasn't around pre 9/11. I'm actually doing a DC-New Haven run this weekend on Amtrak.

And it's not just the train, there simply isn't enough commercial office space around New Haven to support business travelers. And what does exist is mostly in Shelton, on the Fairfield County side. I think the best hope for HVN is air taxis like Open Air and Linear Air. Better for So Conn to consolidate its commercial efforts around BDR which is in a much better position to access NY Metro/Fairfield County office workers.
 
CitrusCritter
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:36 am

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 13):
I view Pan Am as an abomination in the aviation industry

When I was at SFB last Thursday to take G4 to GSP, "Pan Am" was running a charter to Costa Rica out of the domestic terminal. They were supposed to leave 30 minutes before my G4 flight, but when I boarded, they were delayed for "a couple of hours" because of MX problems. I got a (bad) picture of their 727...I couldn't get a clear shot, but it very much seemed like an abomination.
 
HVNandrew
Topic Author
Posts: 386
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:59 am

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 8):
I think Larry DeNardis should stop trying to build up Tweed, and work more with the state officials who are trying to gain control of Bridgeport's airport. BDR could realistically serve Connecticut's only thriving office market in Stamford. It's the same distance from Midtown Manhattan as SWF, and its sits out in the sound, unlike HPN which is surrounded by $2 million homes in Greenwich and Westchester. Rename it New York - Sikorsky (f*** the Port Authority if they don't like it), and start recruiting some Dash-8 services to PHL, EWR, and IAD, while working on getting 11/29 extended 2000 feet for RJs, 737s, and A320s.

I agree with that in theory... BDR is actually closer to midtown than SWF, it has a small terminal, but has the physical space around it to expand into. It is literally five minutes from downtown Bridgeport (though, that doesn't count for alot these days...), but also a couple minutes drive from the massive Shelton office parks, and the loaded bedroom communities of Fairfield and Westport.

But I would be shocked if commercial air service ever came back to BDR. The NIMBYs around BDR are worse than those around HVN. A proposal almost went through a few months ago which called for the demolition of BDR, and building an office park on the site. As it is now, the runway is too small to fly any fully loaded commercial plane into, except for B1900s, I believe. Nobody has even serviced the airport since US pulled their last flights out in '99.
 
iaddca
Posts: 199
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:36 am

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:18 am

BDR does have the US Helicopter service to EWR, might have to check that out sometime.

If HVN ever gets Washington area service again, I hope they're smart enough to realize that BWI has Washington in its name, but is really Baltimore's airport, and the flights it attracts reflect that. It has weak connections to the West Coast, almost no service to Europe, plus most of the growth here is on the other side of Washington in Northern Virginia.
 
highflier92660
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:16 am

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:43 am

What a waste of an historic certificate. At least Pan Am II flying Airbus A300s from 1996 to 1998 gave reasonably priced transcontinental luxury an attempt. One would think a similar A300 sized aircraft with Clipper Class service would really be welcomed by a segment of the market in these days of downsized aircraft and "fetal position" seats. From all I can obtain on the web, Pan Am II flew from LAX-JFK-MIA and the Caribbean with the traditional white linen table cloth/ fine china/ gourmet meal service of the old flag carrier until it ran into financial problems merging with Carnival airlines. Today's version is largely a Boeing 727-200 charter airline painted up with a blue ball.
 
BatonOps
Posts: 621
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:00 am

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:07 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 2):
They need to just shut down the operation permanently. Flying J31's to Elmira and Portsmouth and Bedford is not the way to make money.

So what's left...ELM, BED, TTN, and PSM? Anyone have a clue on how weel the ELM-BED route does?
 
sacamojus
Posts: 186
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:24 am

RE: "Pan Am" Drops HVN

Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:53 am

Why even have any scheduled service? I can see operating as a charter company with 727's, but there is no need for the name "Pan Am" to be used as a marketing ploy?

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