C010T3
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TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:45 pm

Brazilian passengers are now afraid of flying from and to CGH. Pilots refuse to land at CGH under the smallest sign of rain. In response to that, TAM has cancelled most of its operations today at CGH and is transferring some to GRU. In addition, CGH was closed until 8:50 am, because of fog. Passengers at GRU are facing a 2 hours wait in order to check-in, since the line is so big it has reached Terminal 2.
The weather is supposed to get worse throughout the day, since rain is expected and G3/RG might as well follow TAM and transfer the flights to GRU. If they don't, it is expected that the pilots do that anyway, because of the pilot agreement of boycotting CGH when it's raining. Reflexes can be seen all over the country, specially BSB, GIG and POA.
Let's hope that traffic is not interrupted as it was the other day, because GRU could not accommodate more aircrafts.

[Edited 2007-07-24 15:56:06]
 
TACAA320
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:47 pm

Foreigners Say Brazil Needs Outside Aviation Help (by TACAA320 Jul 24 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Things apparently are getting worse in Brazil.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
vbeltraJJ
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:26 pm

I think it is not totally fair to say TAM is creating chaos. I think with all the problems airlines, passengers and many others have been facing since last September, this is only a reflex. Anyway, let´s pray for something good in this dark era.

Cheers.
 
C010T3
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting VbeltraJJ (Reply 2):
I think it is not totally fair to say TAM is creating chaos. I think with all the problems airlines, passengers and many others have been facing since last September, this is only a reflex. Anyway, let´s pray for something good in this dark era.

Cheers.

It's their choice to divert to GRU. They could easily divert to GIG. There were no lines yesterday at TAM's check-in counters at GIG during most part of the day.
 
luisca
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:49 pm

My opinion is this is a knee jerk reaction, the runway lengh at CGH is not unheard of or extremely dangerous, all the airport needs is some improvements, like grooving and breakable concrete in overrun areas and the airport would be perfectly safe for most operations.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
vbeltraJJ
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:54 pm

Is it TAM´s choice that even Gol and Varig are diverting to GRU also? I am no quite sure....anyway, that´s a point of view.

Cheers.
 
C010T3
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:01 am

Quoting VbeltraJJ (Reply 5):
Is it TAM´s choice that even Gol and Varig are diverting to GRU also? I am no quite sure....anyway, that´s a point of view.

Cheers.



Quoting C010T3 (Thread starter):
since rain is expected and G3/RG might as well follow TAM and transfer the flights to GRU

I was not saying that TAM would have anything to do with transferring RG/G3 the flights, but G3 was trying to operate out of CGH and they had clearly more flights than JJ departuring and arriving at CGH this morning.
 
C010T3
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:19 am

CGH is closed again since 11:05 am.
 
PapaNovember
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:41 am

How far is GIG from CGH or GRU?
 
C010T3
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting PapaNovember (Reply 8):
How far is GIG from CGH or GRU?

ca. 360 km
 
rfields5421
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:57 am

Isn't GIG - in Rio and CGH/GRU in Sao Paulo?

That's a couple hundred miles or more.
 
PapaNovember
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 3):
They could easily divert to GIG. There were no lines yesterday at TAM's check-in counters at GIG during most part of the day.



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 10):
Isn't GIG - in Rio and CGH/GRU in Sao Paulo?

That's a couple hundred miles or more.

That's a really long way to divert....

C010T3 - Are you be expecting the airlines to bus passengers to and from Sao Paulo?
 
C010T3
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 10):
sn't GIG - in Rio and CGH/GRU in Sao Paulo?

That's a couple hundred miles or more.

Yes, but the main problem are connections. Thousands of people get stranded for many hours at CGH and GRU or even between them, because they have to change airports, because of the closure. I have heard cases of people being sent to GRU just to be informed that they should go back to CGH and, in the end, they realize they should have stayed at GRU, because CGH closed again.
I don't know why SAO residents get the priority, when there are people that are stranded not 360 km from home, but more than 1000 km!!! If the planes started to land at GIG, they wouldn't have to wait on the taxiway for a spot to park and they wouldn't have to sleep on the floor of the airport waiting for a connection that leaves only 12 hours afterwards. Passengers to SAO could easily be transported by bus.
 
aloges
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 4):
all the airport needs is some improvements, like grooving and breakable concrete in overrun areas and the airport would be perfectly safe for most operations.

The trouble is there are no overrun areas. And you've got the runways sitting on top of steep nclines on all sides. Beyond those inclines, there's roads, homes, filling stations, businesses and most importantly a lot of people who would definitely mind moving elsewhere for even the slightest expansion of CGH.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
C010T3
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting PapaNovember (Reply 11):
C010T3 - Are you be expecting the airlines to bus passengers to and from Sao Paulo?

Yes, I am. Until they sort everything out, they should do that. If GRU does not hold the capacity to replace CGH as a hub, the space at GRU should be left to the O&D traffic. I see no reason why putting the whole country on hold just because SAO passengers can't take a 6 hours ride to São Paulo until the airlines can rearrange their networks. We have whole families waiting in transit at GRU paying absurd prices just to feed themselves at the airport. Let's not forget it's July.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting PapaNovember (Reply 11):
That's a really long way to divert....

C010T3 - Are you be expecting the airlines to bus passengers to and from Sao Paulo?

PapaNovember
Sao Paulo nowadays is almost ATL+JFK together. All O&D for São Paulo, the rich and strong business center of South America and ALSO all connections north-south, plus many from CNF, SDU, VIX, are made in São Paulo. There are several cities in Brazil with service ONLY to São Paulo, which means no option.

The question is not simple but it's the only, if airlines run more flights like NVT-BSB, JOI-GIG, POA-SSA, CWB-CNF, RAO-GIG, BSB-IGU, and some others, at least 6 to 12 million people can avoid São Paulo airports every year, allowing them to handle in a better shape the O&D for just São Paulo market.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
rfields5421
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:24 am

You're talking about having to scrap the hub operation at CGH and move the operation elsewhere.

The flight schedules won't work for connections if the airports are that far apart. New schedules will have to be created.

Then you've got all the local passenger traffic from Sao Paulo which has to be restructured.

No large airline worldwide could do somthing like that in a few days. Even then, no large airline worldwide can avoid massive system wide delays when a major hub is shut down for extended periods during a day, forcing diversions.

Just look at the mess at Heathrow this week for British Airways and many, many international connecitons.

Come with me out to Dallas Love or Dallas-Fort Worth some day when thunderstorms shut those airports for hours per day. My last flight scheduled on Southwest - we gave up and returned home - missing a family event in Houston - 350 miles away.

My last flight on AAL was delayed six hours leaving BDL and got into DFW 8 hours late - five hours flying around thunderstorms on what was supposed to be a three hour flight.

I'm not complaining, I've seen first hand the result of trying to push a landing in heavy rain and storms. Luckly the ferry crew on the CV-990 survived.

Remember - the long runway at CGH is closed - only the shorter runway is in use. That's going to force most jets to divert if the runways are wet.

If you've got to complain to someone about weather messing with the schedule and safety of flights - find a chapel.
 
C010T3
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:31 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 16):
You're talking about having to scrap the hub operation at CGH and move the operation elsewhere.

Yes, that has already been decided by the Federal Government. I'm sorry, i'm not sure, if that has been mentioned here in the forum. CGH will neither be allowed to receive connecting passengers, nor stopping flights. That means you can kiss CGH-XXX-XXX and XXX-CGH-XXX flights goodbye. Another measure taken by the government is the prohibition of new international service out of SAO until further notice.
 
rfields5421
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 17):
Yes, that has already been decided by the Federal Government. I'm sorry, i'm not sure, if that has been mentioned here in the forum. CGH will neither be allowed to receive connecting passengers, nor stopping flights.

You folks in Brazil are in for months of disruption then.

It will take months to revise the schedules, reschedule aircraft, crews and possibly modify aircraft fleets.

I realize people have committed a lot of money to travel, but that's the type situation where the best thing is to cancel the flights and fight for a refund.
 
C010T3
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 18):
I realize people have committed a lot of money to travel, but that's the type situation where the best thing is to cancel the flights and fight for a refund.

People don't need to fight. At least I didn't have to. I had a SDU-CGH roundtrip with RG the day after the accident and when I called to reschedule, two options were given to me. Either reschedule for the following day or ask for a refund. I actually wanted to reschedule for two weeks afterwards, but I had to pay, so I asked for the refund, since it was free. Dumb procedure. If they give you the option for the following day, why not two weeks later?
 
C010T3
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:58 am

ANAC has just announced the prohibition of new bookings for all CGH flights until the situation is normalized.
 
PPVRA
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:33 am

Grooving of the main runway at CGH will begin tomorrow.

Good to see GOL taking pro-active steps.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
JJMNGR
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:56 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 21):
Grooving of the main runway at CGH will begin tomorrow.

Around 200 people had to die for them to take this action? Somebody can say here that as the media is stating, airlines put a lot of pressure over the authorities to deliver the airport as soon as possible. Ok, so what? The airlines were doing its roll. Where is the authority that shows flexibility in acknowledge this pressure? If the issue involving is related to safety of the flight operations, than they should have delivered the runway with the grooving.

INFRAERO´s Incompetent president was saying that the main CGH runway would be delivered today...."if there would be no rain...."!!!!! This is and assumption of guilty for God sake!

A very few people are remembering that one day before the accident, a Pantanal ATR42 skid off the wet runway ( AT THE END OF THE RUNWAY!!!) Do an ATR need to use the hole runway at CGH? Do the ATR had a just one reverse operating?.

Why a lot of pilots lading during that period of rain reported runway wet and slippery? Because all of them had just one reverse operating?

Why the same PR-MBK landed at CGH the same day 3 x, with one of the reverse INOP and there was no accident if the problem was to have a reverse INOP?

Sorry guys, I just arrived from the funeral of another colleague and I am devastated for all this....how ignorant are some people, how arrogant are some journalists and our Congress Authorities.

I know who is going to be blamed. It will be a guy that is no longer with us to defend himself; the Captain. Ninety something % of all aircraft accidents is like this and this one will not be different.

Cheers,

Richard
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 22):
INFRAERO´s Incompetent president was saying that the main CGH runway would be delivered today...."if there would be no rain...."!!!!! This is and assumption of guilty for God sake!



Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 22):
Sorry guys, I just arrived from the funeral of another colleague and I am devastated for all this....how ignorant are some people, how arrogant are some journalists and our Congress Authorities.

Richard, again i'm really sorry about your team and colleagues.

Agree 200% that Infraero and it's model of Aeroshopping + "nice" terminals and ZERO care on runways, taxiways and real infrastructure destroyed the good moment of Brazilian Aviation.

Our government (entire) is a shame:
Lack of authority, lack of direction, lack of integrity, lack of know how to govern a country.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
2travel2know
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:06 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 17):
Another measure taken by the government is the prohibition of new international service out of SAO until further notice.

What international service in GRU has to do with an overcrowded CGH?
With that kind of thinking, then move all Sâo Paulo international flights back to VCP where they were forced to move when CGH became a full domestic airport.
I can think of some airlines which will gladly move to VCP if Brazil grants them open skies.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
PPVRA
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 22):

Good to see you back and safe. And my sincerest condolences for your losses, I hope the good people at TAM recover as soon as possible and as much as possible.

I agree completely with your statement!  checkmark 
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
JJMNGR
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:17 am

Felipe,

Thanks again for your always welcome nice words. We are all suffering a lot. As you know I suspended my vacation but till now I did not had the courage to go to my new facilities at Hangar VII (Av. dos Bandeirantes building). Time will let us pass through all of this, but we will never forget.

Right now I just got an e-mail of one of TAM´s A320 Captains and would like to share with those A.net members that understand portuguese. Those interested, pls send a separate msgs to me with your personal e-mail and I will redirect.

Cheers,
 
JJMNGR
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 25):
Good to see you back and safe

Tks buddy! Thanks.
 
tavong
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 22):

Agreed.

Blessings and has i said on my provate message i hope the God gives you the strength to keep going and honouring your friend´s memory with your life. Again blessing. (please excuse me if my english is poor)

Gus
SKBO
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot more happy.
 
FMAL
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 23):
Richard, again i'm really sorry about your team and colleagues.

Agree 200% that Infraero and it's model of Aeroshopping + "nice" terminals and ZERO care on runways, taxiways and real infrastructure destroyed the good moment of Brazilian Aviation.

Our government (entire) is a shame:
Lack of authority, lack of direction, lack of integrity, lack of know how to govern a country.

Felipe

A very correct statement by you Lipe and by JJMNGR on his earlier post. Good to see you JJMNGR safe and sound, and, of course, I'm sorry for the losses you have sustained.


At the risk of being annoying, both here and at Contato Radar, I say this again: we are facing not a "aviation chaos" but a total "mental chaos" in Brazil. Its amazing that 200 people (not counting the 155 who died on the Gol accident) for something to get done. And note, up until now they are only saying they will do these things, we will have to keep checking to see if it indeed will be done.

To this day, nobody has been saked by our "president". INFRAERO'S president remains in post, so does the Minister of Defence, the Minister of Tourism ("relaxa e goza"), the ANAC directors (all political nominations, no experience in aviation whatsoever), the president's adviser (Marco Aurélio Garcia, who made obscene gestures over news that journalists believe could dim down the Government's guilt in the accident, in celebration), you name it.

This gang that is in office today had to be impeached a long time ago, but no....now, 355 people are dead only on aviation accidents (let's not forget the state of our public hospitals, for example) alone. Will nothing change?
 
C010T3
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:04 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 24):
What international service in GRU has to do with an overcrowded CGH?

If more international service is added at GRU, there will be less space for domestic operations. Another problem is the fact that international service generates connections to other domestic destinations, which could easily be done elsewhere without taking space from a person that really needs to reach SAO.
 
rfields5421
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 24):
What international service in GRU has to do with an overcrowded CGH?

The way I read the threads, someone correct me if I'm wrong, is that they do not want to add any more international traffic to GRU until they have the changes at CGH worked out. Since they plan to move a lot of CGH traffic to GRU - that will require much of the infrastructure capacity of GRU.

Adding more international traffic will increase the overcrowding and issues which GRU has today of multiple hour lines and delays.
 
AirSpare
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 16):
No large airline worldwide could do somthing like that in a few days.

No large aiviation company could not afford to not change this now. CGH will become a commuter station. (Blatant prediction.)

Quoting FMAL (Reply 29):
("relaxa e goza"

That was incredible that he said that. He doesn't realize he offended the nation? I spent the last 3 years working in Angola and Nigeria. My wife was pissed when I compared to Brasil to Africa, now she understands my perspective. And she remembers all of the flights in Nigeria I took on companias that crashed for safety reasons.
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
rfields5421
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 32):
Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 16):
No large airline worldwide could do somthing like that in a few days.

No large aiviation company could not afford to not change this now. CGH will become a commuter station. (Blatant prediction.)

Please understand - I'm not questioning the NEED to make changes.

Just that no airline, in any country, can respond to such a drastic reconfiguaion in a few days without massive system disruption and problems.

[Edited 2007-07-24 23:16:39]
 
2travel2know
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 31):
Adding more international traffic will increase the overcrowding and issues which GRU has today of multiple hour lines and delays.

I've arrived and departed GRU at 0430h and at that time, the only delay is on the line waiting to go to passport control (arriving or departing) because there's only one person attending 100+ international passengers. GRU is almost a ghost airport between 0100h and 0500h.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:56 am

Quoting FMAL (Reply 29):
At the risk of being annoying, both here and at Contato Radar, I say this again: we are facing not a "aviation chaos" but a total "mental chaos" in Brazil. Its amazing that 200 people (not counting the 155 who died on the Gol accident) for something to get done. And note, up until now they are only saying they will do these things, we will have to keep checking to see if it indeed will be done.

Very true. And it's also my point, lack of someone giving ORDERS. But imagine, ANAC (Our Aviation Agency) is managed by someone without expertise on the commercial aviation and as directors keep people connected (with interests) on TAM, GOL.... How to do changes can be made if the agency doesn't perform it's duties... how to change if Infraero instead of looking for good examples like SCL, prefer to use their "own" know-how. How to perform a good job if the government use contingency methods to not invest in radars, voice frequencies and others for the ATC. How to fly if we can't comply to the same government that fail on it's mission to organize the Brazilian Aviation ?

I pray for all Brazilians that on a daily basis need to fly... and now i'm sure, we're amateurs trying to become professionals just because we believe we are a huge country.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 3):
It's their choice to divert to GRU. They could easily divert to GIG.

JJ is not Ryanair.  banghead 
When I doubt... go running!
 
2travel2know
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 32):
I spent the last 3 years working in Angola and Nigeria. My wife was pissed when I compared to Brasil to Africa, now she understands my perspective.

The 1st time I visited SSA, it was on a very ugly day. My 1st reaction to Salvador Bahía was "Now I know how LAD looks like". Of course lots of Brazilians will be offended by this comment (my apologies) but when it comes to corruption and mismanagement, in many areas, regardless of its potential and achievements (I'm thinking Embraer here, no Football, Carnival, Telenovelas), Brazil still a 3rd World County.
If ANAC and INFRAERO had the commitment to exceed of a SAMBA SCHOOL, maybe things might work better in Brazilian Aviation.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
irobertson
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 22):
A very few people are remembering that one day before the accident, a Pantanal ATR42 skid off the wet runway ( AT THE END OF THE RUNWAY!!!) Do an ATR need to use the hole runway at CGH? Do the ATR had a just one reverse operating?.



Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 22):
Why the same PR-MBK landed at CGH the same day 3 x, with one of the reverse INOP and there was no accident if the problem was to have a reverse INOP?

Sorry guys, I just arrived from the funeral of another colleague and I am devastated for all this....how ignorant are some people, how arrogant are some journalists and our Congress Authorities.

I know who is going to be blamed. It will be a guy that is no longer with us to defend himself; the Captain. Ninety something % of all aircraft accidents is like this and this one will not be different.

Completely agree with you and I feel horrible for all the losses you've had to endure. I'm glad you can be here to say these hard but true words. It seemed the ATR incident went unnoticed after the TAM disaster and the truth is that there is a heck of a lot more than pilot misjudgment going on here. The pilot may very well have not been able to take the right action in the situation facing him, but look at his odds and look at what was facing him! Certainly, the airport authority has not done their part in making their facility as safe as possible for pilots to land and take off. This would have made any mechanical situation or weather problem almost impossible to deal with, as we have seen. The ATR was the sign, and nothing was done.

What a shame. I feel quite heavy hearted about this whole event, even though I don't know anyone who was affected. It just saddens me, nonetheless.
 
C010T3
Topic Author
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 36):
JJ is not Ryanair.

That's true! Ryanair does not operate in overcrowded unsafe central airports, not to mention making them its main hub.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 37):
If ANAC and INFRAERO had the commitment to exceed of a SAMBA SCHOOL, maybe things might work better in Brazilian Aviation.

I'm sorry for having to tell you that your idea of samba school is totally naive.
 
2travel2know
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:28 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 39):
I'm sorry for having to tell you that your idea of samba school is totally naive.

I used as an example because a Samba School get things done, what they want to do for Carnival they do achieve...
No matter what they do, they have the seriousness some Brazilian government agencies totally lack.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
C010T3
Topic Author
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:32 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 40):
No matter what they do, they have the seriousness some Brazilian government agencies totally lack.

Unfortunately they don't. This year's winner is under investigation for having bribed the judges.
 
donzilasse
Posts: 206
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RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:36 am

JJMNGR

I am very happy to see you Richard back here at this forum and my condoleances to you and all the families of your previous co-workers. I have always had the highest regards for the always so professional and curtious JJ staff and it is just so sad that it all had to come to this before the Brazilian authorities will realize that something will need to be done!

Lipe, has preached for so long that airlines should build connections also from other areas than Sao Paulo and I think this chaos now will prove that he is right. Rio and the Northeast comes to my mind and te current situation just shows the vulnerability of having just one metro area where every passanger will need to pass by.

On Saturday morning when I watched the news on TV Globo I also saw a scrambled interview with a Brazilian pilot who mentioned that also Curitiba, Vitoria and Ilheus has safety issues in regards to the runways. Infraero what I understand does not lack resources of money and it is my understanding that they have plenty of it but, the political or military leadership seem to prefer to spend it on granite, paintings (especially if the wife is the painter) etc. in the terminals. My question is: When will Lula finally come out of his cave and take charge to reorganize Infraero so it could give Brazil the infrastructure it deserves?

Lasse

By the way bought two tickets with JJ MIA to CNF August 31st. Still a supporter of this airline!
 
AirSpare
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:13 am

RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 39):
I'm sorry for having to tell you that your idea of samba school is totally naive.

I may be wrong, but I believe he meant the commitment to excel, not exceed. Yes, the schools do try to excel, at least we have nice shopping?

You know, since a few have mentioned shopping, I would like to see a audit performed, where do all of the proceeds go?

"relax and enjoy"?.

Michael-of NAT and MCO (and LAD, LOS, CAI, MIA, etc.)
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
C010T3
Topic Author
Posts: 1613
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 43):
I may be wrong, but I believe he meant the commitment to excel, not exceed.

I had already understood, but thank youanyway for trying to help. In both of our languages, Castilian and Portuguese, the verb "superar" concentrates both meanings. Isn't that the case in Castilian?

[Edited 2007-07-25 00:45:12]
 
GECMD11
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:43 am

RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:55 am

can VCP be utlized ?
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:03 am

Quoting Donzilasse (Reply 42):
Still a supporter of this airline!

Anthough I am the General Cargo Manager, it somehow helps me keep my job! Tks.
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:07 am

Quoting GECMD11 (Reply 45):
can VCP be utilized ?

As SAO other airport? Yes, with a superb rail link and improved motorways, I think it could. But I'm afraid to say the Brazilian government would rather build a whole new airport for metro SAO before even thinking about having a convenient rail link to a revamped VCP.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:33 am

Quoting GECMD11 (Reply 45):
can VCP be utlized ?

The terminal isn't that big. The big problem is that, it's not a closer airport to downtown São Paulo so you should need to build the entire hub bank with flights to several destination in order to take advantage of connections.

IMO makes more sense to do this at CNF or GIG where you have demand during the entire day, or even BSB using other times (TAM for example keep 2 daily hub banks in the morning and late afternoon/early evening).
TRIP, a regional airline, elected CWB as a hub.

Quoting Donzilasse (Reply 42):
Lipe, has preached for so long that airlines should build connections also from other areas than Sao Paulo and I think this chaos now will prove that he is right. Rio and the Northeast comes to my mind and te current situation just shows the vulnerability of having just one metro area where every passanger will need to pass by.

Thanks my friend for your kindly words. And there's people still looking for a fight between São Paulo and the rest of Brazil which is a shame. Even TAM today announced that their future plans will be held more at CNF and GIG. May be in the near future you get a CNF-MIA !

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5048
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: TAM Creating Chaos At GRU

Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:56 am

Seems that the Government is preparing a package of improvements:

CWB, GIG, GRU and POA will receive ILS Cat III and some others (expect BSB, MAO, REC, SSA) will receive ILS Cat II.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !

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