FCKC
Topic Author
Posts: 1630
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:39 pm

Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:21 pm

http://www.atwonline.com/news/other.html?issueDate=7/25/2007


CEO declared , "very soon we will announcing a huge order for Dreamliners"

Probably more than the 30 frames expected.
 
HowSwedeitis
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:59 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:23 pm

30?!?! Wow....  Wow! Are they going to order any more 340's?
Heja Sverige!!
 
gemini573
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:53 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:25 pm

How soon will QR get a hold of the 787? Aren't the slots booked until 2015?
 
slz396
Posts: 1883
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 7:01 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:26 pm

Somebody needs to tell Al Bakr his order was already unveiled earlier this month by Boeing....
 
scouseflyer
Posts: 2165
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:26 pm

Quoting HowSwedeitis (Reply 1):
30?!?! Wow....

It's been a commonly held beleif here on Anet that an order for 30 that was booked for an unidentified customer in April was for Qatar - I'm guessing that it'll be for 30 + 30 options (which QR always like to quote as part of the order) and this will constitute the "huge" order.
 
keesje
Posts: 8595
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:46 pm

It wouldn't surprize me. The 787 and A350 have limited overlap, getting the best of both worlds can be a good idea. The incremental saving from e.g. having 150 aircraft of the same type iso 80+70 from two types aren't that significant. You will have scale for both. Likely 787-8's.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Norcal773
Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:11 pm

Quoting HowSwedeitis (Reply 1):
Are they going to order any more 340's?

Say what? Nobody is ordering A340's anymore, except LH whick ordered 7 when they ordered the 748.  duck 

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 4):
It's been a commonly held beleif here on Anet that an order for 30 that was booked for an unidentified customer in April was for Qatar

It's no longer a commonly held belief after their logo appeared on the 787 when it was unveiled.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3):
Somebody needs to tell Al Bakr his order was already unveiled earlier this month by Boeing....

 checkmark 
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
HughesAirwest
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:28 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:28 pm

Let's all be careful. Remember that QR and Boeing had a falling out of sorts when Boeing Announced their order for the 77l at the Paris Airshow 2006 only to have QR resend the statement only to firm up the order later in the year leaving Boeing with mud on their face. This came doubt at a cost to Boeing's reputation of not disclosing until the customer is ready. So when and if QR orders more 787's then we can tell Boeing and QR........BZ
"One man practicing Teamwork is far better than fifty preaching it."
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:06 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 6):
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3):
Somebody needs to tell Al Bakr his order was already unveiled earlier this month by Boeing....

Exactly. 30+30 options has been known for quite a while. Maybe he plans to exercise the options?
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:58 pm

Perhaps an early exercise of the options will now take the total firm order to 60, which is significant.
One Nation Under God
 
mptpa
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:34 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:05 pm

WOW, here is another EK-like airline brewing!! That would be impressive to have 80 A350 and 60 B787 in a tiny emirate!! Add this to what EK, and other mid-east carriers, and there would be an awefully large amount of lift just in that small area! Impressive indeed.

Perhaps they are waiting till Dubai Airshow to steal some thunder from Emirates???? May be Emirates will have an announcement of their own for some A350/B787 too. So what would be the chances of getting 1000 for B787 by Dec 31, 2007. I would think this number would be reached by EIS. Now that would be really unprecedented and impressive for any type of aircraft.
 
azhobo
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:52 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:11 pm

And they are going to convert 20 777 options to firm orders as well.
 
Burkhard
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:34 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:22 pm

The Emir of Qatar must have all the swimming pools of his palast full of gold now, and must fear big flooding. He just payed 400 Mio € to Libya for the release of the Bulgarian doctor and nurse, just to get France to support for him to pay a few Bio € for a share of Airbus, and orders one long range aircraft per potential passenger, and may be an (A or B) per passenger and a (B or A) for the camel ...

I severely doubt that the Gulf companies can get full control over the traffic between Europe an Asia and the US and central Asia - but they would need that market to fill these hundreds of aircrafts. Unless these aircrafts are the only idea they have to dump their excessive amount of money they get due to the hight oil price, which is due to politics, which may not be discussed here.
 
aminobwana
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:32 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 4):
It's been a commonly held beleif here on Anet that an order for 30 that was booked for an unidentified customer in April was for Qatar - I'm guessing that it'll be for 30 + 30 options (which QR always like to quote as part of the order) and this will constitute the "huge" order.

I tend to agree. How many of the announced 80 A350 do you think could be options ?? Regarding your comment that QR likes to mention options as part of the order (I heard such also otherwhere): 40 + 40 would be logical, at least from QR point of view, combined with the B787 it would be 70 firm orders + 70 0ptions

Quoting Danny (Reply 8):
Exactly. 30+30 options has been known for quite a while. Maybe he plans to exercise the options?

I do not think so, but anything can happen if money is no problem !. Please see my Reply to Scouseflyer above

aminobwana
 
scouseflyer
Posts: 2165
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:05 pm

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 13):
Regarding your comment that QR likes to mention options as part of the order (I heard such also otherwhere): 40 + 40 would be logical

Airbus only books firm orders to it's spread-sheet and that's got 80 so the A350 order is 80 firm and (currently) no options. What set me down that path was the way that their old order for the A380 (2 firm and 2 options) was always described as an order for 4 by QR (not AB).
 
Scorpio
Posts: 4767
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 3:48 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 13):
How many of the announced 80 A350 do you think could be options ??

Zero.
 
SkyyMaster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:34 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:26 pm

I STILL say that there is going to be a huge glut of capacity amongst Middle East airlines in the next 10 years. Carriers such as EK, QR, and EY are buying wide bodies like they were going out of style. I guess they assume their respective airports are going to become huge connecting hubs with hoards of people. Isn't the idea behind a/c like the 787 and 350 to be ultra-long range? Why would someone who is travelling from say, LHR-PER want to stop and potentially change planes when nonstop service capable aircraft are on the horizon? For that matter, most any city combination from Europe to Asia can be achieved nonstop. Short of undercutting airfares to the point of minimizing profitability, I don't get it. I'll say this again too - any greater military conflict in the region (which despite what some folks will tell us) is quite likely. That would translate into alot of pax desiring to overfly ANY city in the ME, even if they are not directly involved. Oh well, all those jets sure will look nice and pretty baking in the sun while grounded due to lack of passengers.
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 16):
STILL say that there is going to be a huge glut of capacity amongst Middle East airlines in the next 10 years.

They are counting on these factors to drive costs down....

1. Cheap labor from low wage Middle-East countries such as Egypt.

2. Minimal government interference.

3. Low airport costs at their hubs, due to an oil financed infrastructure. Note that this is available to everyone, but it is a significant benefit only for airlines that hub there.

They think these factors will drive demand up.....

1. A good strategic position between Europe and India, and between Europe and the Pacific rim.

2. A rich home market, full of business travelers. Also, there is a lot of vacation traffic both in and out. The aforementioned cheap labor has to get in and out also.

3. The Dubai hub and others like it will be more attractive as connection points than Eurpean and Asian hubs because there is enough capacity to handle the expected traffic. Expansion is easier due to fewer NIMBY issues, etc.

4. Traffic stimulation due to lower fares made possible by lower costs.

5. Greater cargo potential due to the near-exclusive use of widebodied aircraft, and a good position between heavy air cargo markets.

That, in a nutshell, is what Emirates etc. is counting on. We will see if it will work or not.
 
Candid76
Posts: 552
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 5:10 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 16):
I STILL say that there is going to be a huge glut of capacity amongst Middle East airlines in the next 10 years. Carriers such as EK, QR, and EY are buying wide bodies like they were going out of style. I guess they assume their respective airports are going to become huge connecting hubs with hoards of people. Isn't the idea behind a/c like the 787 and 350 to be ultra-long range? Why would someone who is travelling from say, LHR-PER want to stop and potentially change planes when nonstop service capable aircraft are on the horizon? For that matter, most any city combination from Europe to Asia can be achieved nonstop. Short of undercutting airfares to the point of minimizing profitability, I don't get it. I'll say this again too - any greater military conflict in the region (which despite what some folks will tell us) is quite likely. That would translate into alot of pax desiring to overfly ANY city in the ME, even if they are not directly involved. Oh well, all those jets sure will look nice and pretty baking in the sun while grounded due to lack of passengers.

Surely you're not suggesting that airlines get carried away at the peak of the economic cycle, order far too many aircraft because it feels good at the time then when it hits the fan they have to defer or cancel them, incurring huge losses? I can't see why such an intelligent industry as this would make this mistake?

Yes, some people just never learn. They will cross their fingers that the current boom goes on for ever, and no world events outside the control of the industry happen when you least expect it. No point in cautious growth, eh?
 
Poitin
Posts: 2651
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:32 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:52 pm

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 16):
I STILL say that there is going to be a huge glut of capacity amongst Middle East airlines in the next 10 years. Carriers such as EK, QR, and EY are buying wide bodies like they were going out of style.

You are not the only one saying that. However, it will be interesting. There is a terrible bubble in the number of aircraft being sold world wide and sooner or later it will bust. Then there will be a glut of older airframes on the market nobody but the scrappers would want. This will encourage a number of new startup LLCs, making it even harder for the legacy airlines.

Others have also pointed out that the grand plan to make DBX a new hub in the Middle East akin to LHR is based on current aircraft ranges of 6000 NM, while the next generation will be more like 8000 NM, making DBX as valuable as SNN and ANC for refueling passenger flights.

Hey, better they spend all that Oil money on airplanes for at least a while.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
User avatar
kc135topboom
Posts: 10997
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:56 am

It's a good thing they have all that desert space available. They may need to park some of their A-350XWBs, A-380-800s, B-777-300ERs, and B-787-800/900s in about 10 years.
 
ebbuk
Posts: 844
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 6:47 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 6):
Quoting HowSwedeitis (Reply 1):
Are they going to order any more 340's?

Say what? Nobody is ordering A340's anymore, except LH whick ordered 7 when they ordered the 748.

Etihad bought 346s at Le Bourget, not a lot but every frame counts
 
HanginOut
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:45 am

Let's not forget that Dubai (and EK to an extent) are also trying hard to turn themselves into tourist destinations, especially for the top end of the market. They're hoping that as people fly to other parts of the world that they will want to stop in Dubai for a mini-holiday or just to go to the Duty Free (which I hear is incredible). They're following the lead of Singapore and want to become more of a tourist magnet, where people don't mind stopping en route to somewhere else.

Also, as it is likely that non-stops will command a premium over one stop flights, there will always be a market for those willing to save themselves a few bucks and go for the one stop flight. There is also the fact that not everyone will want to sit in a plane for some of those longer flights and would welcome a chance to stretch their legs in between flights.
Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
It wouldn't surprize me. The 787 and A350 have limited overlap, getting the best of both worlds can be a good idea. The incremental saving from e.g. having 150 aircraft of the same type iso 80+70 from two types aren't that significant. You will have scale for both. Likely 787-8's.

 eyepopping YOU Keesje? Suggesting that the B788 isn't too small after all?
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
BoomBoom
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3):
Somebody needs to tell Al Bakr his order was already unveiled earlier this month by Boeing....



Quoting Danny (Reply 8):
Exactly. 30 30 options has been known for quite a while.

Well the QR order for the A350s was known for more than a year, but that didn't stop a lot celebration when it was finally firmed. Sour grapes anyone?
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
PEET7G
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:01 am

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 11):
And they are going to convert 20 777 options to firm orders as well.

I have heard that rumor, but is there any real possibility of it happening? I sure wish they would give green light for that extra 20 777s ,but is there any progress in that purchase?
Peet7G
 
aminobwana
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:32 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 5):
It wouldn't surprize me. The 787 and A350 have limited overlap, getting the best of both worlds can be a good idea. The incremental saving from e.g. having 150 aircraft of the same type iso 80+70 from two types aren't that significant. You will have scale for both. Likely 787-8's.

(I am assuming it will be 80+60 = 140)

Due my bad English I do not understand the phrase "You will have SCALE for both". Does this mean ROOM?

But: can you tell me why anybody in his right mind, , and more so a presently small airline as QR, should order 140 wide bodies and no options ?? The will need many years beyond the existing manufacturing crunch to put them in service. So if they issue a total of 50-60 firm orders and 90 to 80 options to a already agreed low price, they would have the same deal with less risk of overbuying !!

So, I am not so sure they will exercise the alleged 30 Boeing options and risking the outcry of the Airbus
crowd, neither that the 80 A350 contain no options !!

aminobwana
 
lexer
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:21 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:54 am

I think it's a fascinating pi##ing match, and true to Gulf-style kitsch.

And I agree with posters that it'll go bust. The Gulf states haven't really experienced a significant economic crisis in their memories, and it shows.
 
7cubed
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:02 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting HughesAirwest (Reply 7):
Let's all be careful.

Those were Akbar's own words not a.net hearsay.  no 

"CEO Akbar Al Baker said in Washington Monday, "very soon, we will be announcing a huge order for Dreamliners.""
joe
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 24):
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3):
Somebody needs to tell Al Bakr his order was already unveiled earlier this month by Boeing....



Quoting Danny (Reply 8):
Exactly. 30 30 options has been known for quite a while.

Well the QR order for the A350s was known for more than a year, but that didn't stop a lot celebration when it was finally firmed. Sour grapes anyone?

 checkmark 
"Up the Irons!"
 
User avatar
distanthorizon
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:48 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 6):
Say what? Nobody is ordering A340's anymore, except LH whick ordered 7 when they ordered the 748.

I can not resist to tell you the inverse also applies: Nobody is ordering the 748, except LH which ordered 20 when they ordered the A340...
 Wink

DH
Regards
Nelson SE
 
aminobwana
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:32 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting DistantHorizon (Reply 30):
I can not resist to tell you the inverse also applies......

A slightly corrected version:

Nobody is ordering A340's anymore, except....;
Nobody is ordering the 748i now,except ..., but possibly wllin the future, additional to the well selling B748F

Agreeed ??

aminobwana
 
User avatar
distanthorizon
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:48 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 31):
A slightly corrected version:

Nobody is ordering A340's anymore, except....;
Nobody is ordering the 748i now,except ..., but possibly wllin the future, additional to the well selling B748F

Agreeed ??

Not quite: Nobody is ordering both. BUT the A340 is ending his life, with about two decades on it's shoulders; the 748 should be beginning one...

So maybe we simply shouldn't compare them... At all.

Agreed?  Smile

DH
Regards
Nelson SE
 
azhobo
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:52 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting DistantHorizon (Reply 30):
Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 6):
Say what? Nobody is ordering A340's anymore, except LH whick ordered 7 when they ordered the 748.

I can not resist to tell you the inverse also applies: Nobody is ordering the 748, except LH which ordered 20 when they ordered the A340...


DH

I dont think you are comparing apples to apples. Are you trying to compare a whole family of A340s to the latest model of the 747? Cause the 747 family has been around a lot longer than the 340 family. One still has a strong but faint heartbeat, the other is flatlining.

I would be willing to bet 2-1 the 748 will outsell the A340-5/6 over its lifetime. Not sure about beating the whole A340 family though. But even money says it will outsell the a380-8.

HOBO
 
aminobwana
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:32 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:52 am

Quoting DistantHorizon (Reply 32):
So maybe we simply shouldn't compare them... At all.

Agreed?

 checkmark 

I was not intending to compare them, only stating facts !!

aminobwana
 
JRDC930
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:27 pm

No Offense intended, but remember that in the last four months there were "supposed" to be several huge orders announced, i.e. DL, AA, and QR thus far .... ZERO from the fist two, and were not sure how much from QR, i think it will be big, but "huge" is often defined differently at QR than other airlines.  Smile, Ill believe it when a number is officially announced. Its great that QR is has ordered the 787, but i just dont think they are going to place a "huge" 80-100 order and for that matter neither will DL or AA. Besides with all the over capacity in the Mid East are that many 787's necessary?  duck   Smile
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
User avatar
distanthorizon
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:48 pm

RE: Huge 787 Order For Qatar In Sight

Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting Azhobo (Reply 33):
I would be willing to bet 2-1 the 748 will outsell the A340-5/6 over its lifetime. Not sure about beating the whole A340 family though. But even money says it will outsell the a380-8.

I really think you are dead wrong. But that would be another thread...

Regards
DH
Regards
Nelson SE

Who is online