airnewzealand
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QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:51 am

Hi there Ladies and Gentleman.

Just to let ya'll know, a 747-300, I think rego is VH-EBX, was seriously damaged in MEL whilst being loaded by cargo handlers. Subsequently the aircraft is currently being looked at and evaluated weather to fix and put back into service or to scrap.

Currently a 2-class 747-400 will be operating the MEL-PER shuttles.

Cheers
 
miami1
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:53 am

I belive there is a very large tear down the length of the fueslage and a cargo door was ripped off. Lets hope they scap that beast, the less we have of those nightmare aircraft the better.
 
GoingAround
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:00 am

Surely this will class as QANTAS' first ever total hull loss?

Wasn't there an incident some years ago with a B744 in BKK that was damaged on landing and QANTAS paid close (or even exceeded) the amount for a new aircraft to maintain their status as the only National carrier never to write off an aircraft?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I can't remember the full details,


All the best,
Alex
 
airnewzealand
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:00 am

Quoting Miami1 (Reply 1):
I belive there is a very large tear down the length of the fueslage and a cargo door was ripped off. Lets hope they scap that beast, the less we have of those nightmare aircraft the better.

AMEN...Miami1
 
AeroWesty
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:03 am

Quoting Miami1 (Reply 1):
I belive there is a very large tear down the length of the fueslage and a cargo door was ripped off.

The 743 is a very long aircraft. How is damage that extensive accomplished by "cargo handlers"?
International Homo of Mystery
 
airnewzealand
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:04 am

Quoting GoingAround (Reply 2):
Surely this will class as QANTAS' first ever total hull loss?

Not quite sure, i donot know the definition of "hull loss" (If it has to be powered etc..), but it was damaged on the ground whilst loading for the afternoon flight was occuring.

Either way...expect delays as we are VERY low on aircraft at the moment! Especially now, since cabin renovations are getting done!

Cheers

[Edited 2007-07-26 01:05:43]
 
kieran74
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:09 am

can anyone get a pic? Am curious to see what damage there is.
 
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jetmech
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:13 am

Quoting Miami1 (Reply 1):
nightmare aircraft the better.

What exactly is so nightmare about the 743's  Confused . Sure they're getting on a bit, but they were very well looked after.

Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair :shock: .
 
bill142
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting GoingAround (Reply 2):
Surely this will class as QANTAS' first ever total hull loss?

Of a jet aircraft perhaps. They have lost a couple of aircraft back in the early days.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting GoingAround (Reply 2):
Surely this will class as QANTAS' first ever total hull loss?

Wasn't there an incident some years ago with a B744 in BKK that was damaged on landing and QANTAS paid close (or even exceeded) the amount for a new aircraft to maintain their status as the only National carrier never to write off an aircraft?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I can't remember the full details

I beleive that this only applies to Jet aircraft ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_fatal_accidents ) but that link is to Wikipedia so it may be nonsense!
 
Viscount724
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting GoingAround (Reply 2):
Surely this will class as QANTAS' first ever total hull loss?

As I recall, QF had several hull losses, and several fatal accidents, in their earlier days when they were operating local services in Papua New Guinea etc. with DC-3s and smaller types. They haven't written off any jets, although the 747-400 at BKK came close.
 
GoingAround
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 9):

I beleive that this only applies to Jet aircraft ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_fatal_accidents ) but that link is to Wikipedia so it may be nonsense!

Ahh, I didn't think it would have been their first ever complete hull loss.

Thanks for the wiki link,

Alex
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:41 am

That's sad news. I'm kinda glad I did my 743 flights to PER this past week!
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
Tom12
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
As I recall, QF had several hull losses, and several fatal accidents, in their earlier days when they were operating local services in Papua New Guinea etc. with DC-3s and smaller types. They haven't written off any jets, although the 747-400 at BKK came close

Yep, the claim that QANTAS make is that they have never had a fatal accident with a Jet powered aircraft. There have been a few accedents where there has been a loss of life, not in the jet era though.
"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX
 
AeroplaneFreak
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:45 am

I went down to YMML and saw EBX looks it bad shape, Most likley to the scrap.
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:53 am

Quoting AeroplaneFreak (Reply 14):
I went down to YMML and saw EBX looks it bad shape, Most likley to the scrap.

Could you elaborate? How big is the gash? Did you get any pics?
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
Gemuser
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:43 am

Quoting JetMech (Reply 7):
Quoting Miami1 (Reply 1):
nightmare aircraft the better.

What exactly is so nightmare about the 743's . Sure they're getting on a bit, but they were very well looked after.

Regards, JetMech

I'm with you JetMech. After the cabin refurbishment in 03/04 they are very comfortable aircraft to fly in. Flew SYD-NRT-SYD at Chrismas 04 and had a great trip.

Gemuser
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HKGKaiTak
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:51 am

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 16):
After the cabin refurbishment in 03/04 they are very comfortable aircraft to fly in. Flew SYD-NRT-SYD at Chrismas 04 and had a great trip.

I agree. I flew 743's to PER and back this past week and it was a great experience. To be honest as a passenger, if I didn't know I couldn't pick the difference between QF 743's and quite a few airlines' 744s (esp the early ones). I'd even think the 743 was quite new!

If the MEL incident was indeed VH-EBX, here's a pic of her I captured in PER on Monday (just 3 days ago!) as she arrived from SYD.
http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f41/kitkat271/aviation/2007_07_Jul/qf743_ebx_per1.jpg
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
aussie_
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:52 am

There are photos on this website. It doesn't look as bad as many of the doomsdayers on this site are suggesting!

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=285434
 
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jetmech
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:07 am

Quoting Airnewzealand (Thread starter):
Subsequently the aircraft is currently being looked at and evaluated weather to fix and put back into service or to scrap.



Quoting Miami1 (Reply 1):
I belive there is a very large tear down the length of the fueslage and a cargo door was ripped off. Lets hope they scap that beast, the less we have of those nightmare aircraft the better.

From the face value of those photos, that damage is definitely reparable! Even though the 743's are old aircraft, there is no way that damage is extensive enough to be uneconomically repairable, or warrant the scrapping of the entire airframe. I'm still not sure what you guys have against the B743 and what is so nightmarish about them. If anyone should be complaining about nightmares, it would be the engineers that have to repair the corrosion in the airframes of these older aircraft. Believe me, I have seen many 744's that are in far worse condition than any of QF's 743's or 742's

Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair :shock: .
 
777STL
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:19 am

Quoting Miami1 (Reply 1):
I belive there is a very large tear down the length of the fueslage and a cargo door was ripped off. Lets hope they scap that beast, the less we have of those nightmare aircraft the better.

Judging by those pics, the cargo door is intact and the gash is maybe 6 feet long at the absolute most....
PHX based
 
QANTAS077
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:27 am

what I've heard is that it will be difficult to repair due to it being length wise and past a construction joint and through to wing fairing, accountants will undoubtedly decide the fate of Wodonga.
 
hamster
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:58 am

What do you think happened that this cargo loader did that? What do you think caused this accident? How do they fix it?
 
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BreninTW
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting Hamster (Reply 22):
What do you think happened that this cargo loader did that? What do you think caused this accident?

According to PPRUNE, the brakes failed on the loader, and the driver bailed to avoid being crushed.
 
Poitin
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:18 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 20):
Judging by those pics, the cargo door is intact and the gash is maybe 6 feet long at the absolute most....

Depending on whether the damage to the skin is over a pressured space or not, it is a simiple, to not very difficult repair. They will probably reskin a couple panels, replace the cargo door only because they are QF. Plenty of airlines would patch it..

I really, really, really doubt QF would scrap an airplane with that sort of "extensive" damage.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
airnewzealand
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:38 pm

Quoting JetMech (Reply 19):
From the face value of those photos, that damage is definitely reparable! Even though the 743's are old aircraft, there is no way that damage is extensive enough to be uneconomically repairable, or warrant the scrapping of the entire airframe. I'm still not sure what you guys have against the B743 and what is so nightmarish about them. If anyone should be complaining about nightmares, it would be the engineers that have to repair the corrosion in the airframes of these older aircraft. Believe me, I have seen many 744's that are in far worse condition than any of QF's 743's or 742's



Quoting JetMech (Reply 7):
What exactly is so nightmare about the 743's . Sure they're getting on a bit, but they were very well looked after.

Mate,

I gave you credible information...I said "MAY" be scrapped...never that it would. Dont pull at straws and make me sound like i was being too dramatic! Thats not in my nature.
The fact that i put "serious" into the equation is because it IS! This is coming from the guys and gals on the ground whom first evaluated the accident! (I was one of the 13 crew members waiting to board the aircraft to operate the flight). Anything which punctures the aircraft fuselage IS serious!
In regards to the other claim i made, this is PURELY coming from a crew point of view. The aircraft is not the most crew friendly. Lets put it this way. 450pax onboard with only 13 flight attendants is a big ratio compared to the other 747-400 which have less pax and more crew (15-16). Add to the equation, toilets regularly not working, galley ovens regularly broken and call bells, reading lights not illuminating is what you regularly come across on these aircrafts.
They are by no means start of the art for crew (Or passengers) and when you regularly have 2+ hour delays on them (due to mechanical) passengers feel the same way. Maybe you dont fly enough on them, but my observations are certainly valid!

Cheers and all the best!
 
Philadelphia1
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:44 pm

Someone's getting fired......
 
jbernie
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:44 pm

I would say for QF with the amount of free aircraft they have around, fixing it might be in their interest so they can get a big aircraft back in the fleet.

It might not be a matter of how much it costs to fix, but how much it costs to not habe that aircraft available.
 
United Airline
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:01 pm

Where do they fly their B 747-300s to?
 
Poitin
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:04 pm

Quoting Jbernie (Reply 27):
It might not be a matter of how much it costs to fix, but how much it costs to not habe that aircraft available.

They can have it fixed in a week, without putting in over time. They could even fly the aircraft with temporary patches on a ferrying flight if need be. That damage is little more than some serious scratches.

Quoting Airnewzealand (Reply 25):
I gave you credible information...I said "MAY" be scrapped...never that it would. Dont pull at straws and make me sound like i was being too dramatic! Thats not in my nature.

Ever thought about getting a job as a television news reporter? You have a real talent to overstating things.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
VHVXB
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:09 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 28):
Where do they fly their B 747-300s to?

SYD/MEL-PER
 
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zeke
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting JetMech (Reply 19):
From the face value of those photos, that damage is definitely reparable!

I would agree, not that hard to pick up another cargo door off a scrapped classic either, I would think that would quicker and cheaper than repairing the existing one, and should turn out lighter than a repaired one.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
Gemuser
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:34 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 30):
Quoting United Airline (Reply 28):
Where do they fly their B 747-300s to?

SYD/MEL-PER

Plus MEL-AKL-LAX on somedays of the week

Gemuser
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QANTAS077
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:57 pm

Quoting Zeke (Reply 31):
I would agree, not that hard to pick up another cargo door off a scrapped classic either, I would think that would quicker and cheaper than repairing the existing one, and should turn out lighter than a repaired one.

alot harder to repair when its ripped through a construction joint.
 
rsg85
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:59 pm

So this happened last night?
Where is the aircraft sitting now?
 
APChigoSea
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:01 pm

]Quoting JetMech (Reply 19):From the face value of those photos, that damage is definitely reparable!I would agree, not that hard to pick up another cargo door off a scrapped classic either, I would think that would quicker and cheaper than repairing the existing one, and should turn out lighter than a repaired one.[/quote]



Replace a door no problem and just scractches? It is more complex than that. The cage on the lift is steel and quite twisted which means that there may be more damage than is seen in the pics. First of all if you have ever rigged a cargo door from one aircraft to another it can take a lot more than just bolting it in. Also most minor damage by a Boeing structural repair manual is only 2 inches wide by 6 inches long. After that it becomes a major repair. Also any damage to the skin in a pressurized area is serious. You don,t know the condition of the frames inside or the damage to stringers,intercostals,shear ties and such. That damage is much more serious than meets the eye. I do structural repair for a living and to say it is no big deal is crazy. There is also a lot of accessing to be done inside to get to the structure just to inspect the damage. I agree that its is most likely not enough to scrap the aircraft,however downplaying the damage is inaccurate. By the way no two doors ever come close to fitting the same on a swap.
There is no such thing as "Its just a little crack."
 
valley1
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:31 pm

Now - What if this happened on say a B787 composite fuselage, how big a deal would the repair be then ??
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:25 pm

Quoting Valley1 (Reply 36):
Now - What if this happened on say a B787 composite fuselage, how big a deal would the repair be then ??

For a surface breach/crack glue on a patch, have a nice day. Which would likely apply to this situation assuming of course that the door doesn't need replaced. The hull of the 787 is enough stronger that its more likely to smash up stuff hitting it too, so less likely that internal fittings or lines would be damaged even if the skin is breached.
 
ComeAndGo
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:43 pm

Quoting Valley1 (Reply 36):
Now - What if this happened on say a B787 composite fuselage, how big a deal would the repair be then ??

you just take some crazy glue and your done. Two seconds. Violá.
 
Geo772
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:16 pm

Quoting APChigoSea (Reply 35):

Spot on there. I saw a 767 a couple of years ago that had damage that didn't look as bad as this and was grounded for a long time to have frames, stringers and belly skin replaced.

Would be interesting to see some internal photos of the damage to make a more accurate comment.
Flown on A300B4/600,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343,B727,B732/3/4/5/6/7/8,B741/2/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772/3,DC10,L1011-200,VC10,MD80,
 
jetfuel
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:29 pm

If it is repaired it is MONTHS not days
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
flytuitravel
Posts: 489
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:20 pm

I remember a BI 767 (V8-RBG) had a tug driven into its belly a few years back in LHR, that plane was repaired and the damage was pretty bad..........


FLYTUITRAVEL.
 
EI321
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:35 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 9):
Quoting GoingAround (Reply 2):
Surely this will class as QANTAS' first ever total hull loss?

Wasn't there an incident some years ago with a B744 in BKK that was damaged on landing and QANTAS paid close (or even exceeded) the amount for a new aircraft to maintain their status as the only National carrier never to write off an aircraft?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I can't remember the full details

I beleive that this only applies to Jet aircraft ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas_fatal_accidents ) but that link is to Wikipedia so it may be nonsense!

AFAIK, EI have never had a jet written off either.
 
Burkhard
Posts: 1916
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:03 pm

Carbon and Glass is harder than Aluminium. Interesting, I learn something new every day. Or is it that laws of nature can be changed by marketing hype?

How old is she? I think there is no discussion that such a damage could be repaired, the question is if it is worth to do so, or if it is better to sell the plane for parts. QF has some nice and new aircraft on order...
 
Lufthansa
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:49 pm

i think the main problem the FA's have is they're dealing with older galley equipment etc... and they've got more passengers on the 743 to attend to. More passengers means more work...and more work with older equipment.

I don't hear pilots or engineers complaining... most passengers think they're on a 744 thanks to the new interiors (if they can even spot the difference) and in that high density seating arrangement, the bean counters are also happy. So... to conclude... the only people who are really unhappy is the Flight attendents... basically because it means they have to work harder. Is that a good enough reason to scrap it? Of course not!

judging by those picts, I think we'll see this 743 return to service, provided QF can get it fixed quickly. Speed is of the essence here... if its gonna take forever it might get parted out purely and simply because QF needs extra capacity quickly... and it may be quicker to get an extra 744 or two 763s etc. Maybe an additional A330?
 
Jetfixr757
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:16 am

RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:52 pm

Guys, that aircraft is way repariable, judging from the photos it can be done, i have seen worse repaired.
Jet
 
CXfirst
Posts: 2882
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:53 pm

Quoting Airnewzealand (Thread starter):
Currently a 2-class 747-400 will be operating the MEL-PER shuttles.

I wish I wasn't on holiday in Norway right now, I want to get a biz class ticket in the skybed.

Too bad about the 743, but thankfully it wasn't a 744, which still has lots of life in it.

-CXfirst
 
steveb772
Posts: 2
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:24 pm

I had a very pleasant trip on VH EBU "Nalanji Dreaming" SYD-NRT in 96
 
Norcal773
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:33 pm

Quoting Philadelphia1 (Reply 26):
Someone's getting fired......

Not necessarily. If the story about the brakes going south on him and he bailed are true, the union will come in handy, for once.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 28):
Where do they fly their B 747-300s to?

To LAX as a sub sometimes. I saw one at LAX a month ago.
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
Tom12
Posts: 1050
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RE: QF 747-300 Damaged..May Never Fly Again!

Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:29 pm

What happened with that Alaskan MD-80 when the baggage truck hit it, IIRC it took-off and had to make an emergancy landing? Did they fix it?


Tom
"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX

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