krje1980
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Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:05 pm

Hi all.

Just an interesting thought. Do you all think there could be a possible market for a complete red-eye flight from Europe to North America? Say if a flight departs LHR around 1:30 a.m. and lands in SFO or LAX around 4:30 a.m. This means that business travelers could work a full day in Europe, take the overnight flight, and arrive fresh and ready for work (providing one flies J or F of course  Wink). When flying the day-flight from Europe to the North American West Coast, one usually arrives quite tired because of the time difference, and as a result one "loses" a day of productivity.

I don't know if a complete red-eye from Europe to North America has ever existed, but I would think that it could be possible. I know that I certainly wouldn't mind taking such a flight as I find red-eyes more peaceful and relaxing than day-flights.

Again, I have no idea if this would really work, but it would certainly be interesting to hear other opinions on the issue!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:09 pm

While not Europe, El Al's flights from Tel Aviv to Miami and Newark, as well as one frequency to JFK, operate as redeyes.
a.
 
jopavon
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:17 pm

You have IB flights nonstop from MAD to MEX leaving MAD @ 1:50 and arriving 6:00 am to MEX
 
carduelis
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:19 pm

Don't forget the nightime departure restrictions from LHR, and who wants to land in the West Coast around 0300 in the morning?
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
CO7e7
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
El Al's flights from Tel Aviv

don't forget CO 91 TLV-EWR and DL 153 (i'm not sure about the flight #) TLV-ATL both depart TLV around midnight and arrive at the US destinations around dawn.
 
trekster
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:21 pm

Even if i were a business man, why on earth would i wanna land in LAX/SFO at 0430.

By 9am you would be knackered anyway from Jetlag
Where does the time go???
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:26 pm

Most of major airports in Europe have curfews inplace between 2300/2330 to 0430/0500, I can recall LHR, LGW, FRA, CDG, having to depart before midnight would result in a too early arrival to be practical.

Also a factor here is that expenses would go high as airlines would need ground staff at odd hours. Also transportation from the airport would be an issue.

IB flight to MEX is an exception because there is no curfew at MAD. They also have redeyes to EZE, GRU, MVD after midnight.
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mbj2000
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting Krje1980 (Thread starter):

How many airports in Europe allow departures in the night? For example MUC is shutdown after 23.30 AFAIK...
Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
 
airbazar
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:28 pm

Quoting Trekster (Reply 5):
Even if i were a business man, why on earth would i wanna land in LAX/SFO at 0430.

For the same reason you land in FRA/LHR at 5am. Why does it work in one direction and not in the other? I admit that some Eastbound red-eyes offer slightly better schedules but a red-eye is still a red-eye no matter what direction you fly  Smile
 
krje1980
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:31 pm

Well, I am sorry for not thinking about the night curfew Europe. You are right! This would really cause a lot of hassle. I guess I have my recent experiences from traveling South East Asia to Europe in mind. Here flights leave around midnight/1 a.m., and lands in Europe between 4 and 6 a.m. I actually prefer these flights, and find it much easier to cope with jet lag after these flights than after the day-flighs I've taken from Europe to the US.
 
LXA340
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:32 pm

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 4):
don't forget CO 91 TLV-EWR and DL 153 (i'm not sure about the flight #) TLV-ATL both depart TLV around midnight and arrive at the US destinations around dawn.

Same for LY flighs to YYZ and LAX. I would say LY is at the border as flight times are long enough and flights arrive more or less ok around 5AM or later. Whereas all other origins from Europe have a too short flying time to any destination in the USA to make a decent red eye. As somebody said you don't want to arrive at 3 or 4 AM. LY for instance has some weird flights leaving HKG early evening and arriving around 3AM in TLV which is also not good. Getting back to the red eye thing, it's the same vise versa, why almost no airline offers USA - Europe flights during the day. As flights would need to leave arly morning and arrive late in the evening. Hence, BA and AA offer flights from JFK, BOS and ORD to LHR and that's it if I am not wrong?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:35 pm

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 10):
Same for LY flighs to YYZ and LAX.

Only MIA, JFK, and EWR have TLV-USA redeyes. TLV-LAX leaves TLV at 0620; TLV-YYZ departs TLV at 1255.
a.
 
SolarWind
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:47 pm

AA DEL to ORD Leaves around 1:00 am And gets to ORD at about 5:00 am...Now thats a LONG red eye..
 
LXA340
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
TLV-LAX leaves TLV at 0620; TLV-YYZ departs TLV at 1255.

Both of them used to be night fligh flights until a few months ago I gues they changed it then. Are you sure you aren't confusing the 12:55 departure to YYZ with the AC flight?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:06 am

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 13):

Both of them used to be night fligh flights until a few months ago I gues they changed it then. Are you sure you aren't confusing the 12:55 departure to YYZ with the AC flight?

You're right. El Al departs at 0050.
a.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:04 am

While the NAT system doesn't restrict east bound or west bound flights to specific hours - it STRONGLY encourages that flights stay within the set hours for the direction of travel.

Those hours are centered upon passing 30W @ 0400 UTC eastbound and @ 1500 UTC westbound

Remember the most critical parts of a North Atlantic crossing occur far away from any nagivation aids, in places where constant active communication with ATC is not possible, where ATC cannot confirm aircraft positions.

Navigation errors do occur - daily - the system works well and aircraft can contact other aircraft in the air along the route for help - lost SELCAL and CPDLC communications occurs - so position reports can be relayed by other aircraft.

[Edited 2007-07-27 18:15:34]

[Edited 2007-07-27 18:16:25]
 
2travel2know
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:59 am

One issue with red-eyes from Europe to North America is the arrival times in Northamerican airports.
Westbound red-eyes usually work when there are long flights and/or the time difference between Europe and destination is just a few hours.
AF, KL and IB for many years used to fly red-eyes to the Caribbean. I believe KL may still do it to CUR/AUA, not sure about AF to FDM and PTP.
I would think that the routes most likely to see red-eyes from Europe - flown by U.S. airlines - one day might be:
LON/MAN-ATL DL
LON/MAN-JFK/MIA AA
LON-EWR/IAH CO
LON-PHL/CLT US
LON/MAN-IAD UA
LON-DTW NW
MAD-MIA AA
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
haggis79
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 15):
While the NAT system doesn't restrict east bound or west bound flights to specific hours - it STRONGLY encourages that flights stay within the set hours for the direction of travel.

well, what about the AF late evening flight to and dailight flight from JFK, then?
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EXAAUADL
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:32 am

Actualyl if a market existed LHR-IAH is the best timings. IAH is far from LHR but 2 times xones ahead fo SFO.
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
I believe KL may still do it to CUR/AUA

Several moons ago, not any longer.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
MAD-MIA AA

Only one feasible from your list (on IB metal) since there is no curfew at MAD and IB has a block of late departures to EZE,GRU,MVD,MEX,GIG between 0000 and 0230
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na747
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting Krje1980 (Thread starter):
This means that business travelers could work a full day in Europe, take the overnight flight, and arrive fresh and ready for work

you must be an owl or some kind of nocturnal creature...
I could see it work from the airline's standpoint (feeding traffic), but fresh and ready to work, for me?  no 
What about when the jetlag kicks in?
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:55 am

I know that NRT-CDG on AF at night is fairly successful so why not? But curfew on major European airports (the only ones who might have the market for those) will not help. Also, the big markets in N Am are mostly in the North part (NYC, ORD, YYZ) so flights actually are rather short for a lot of time zones crossed, which makes you arrive almost at the same time as you left. Also, long parking times for aircraft after arrival in America could play against, although they could be used for a daylight return flight.
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noelg
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:04 am

I did LHR-YYZ as a red eye on AC a few years ago, not sure if it's still operational but we departed at 21:00 from LHR and arrived in Toronto at 00:00. Ours was just about the last flight in, we then had an 8 hour layover in the check in hall at YYZ for a flight at 08:30 the following morning to MIA!

It was really wierd arriving in YYZ seemingly 3 hours after departing LHR!
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting Noelg (Reply 22):
I did LHR-YYZ as a red eye on AC a few years ago, not sure if it's still operational but we departed at 21:00 from LHR and arrived in Toronto at 00:00.

That's not a redeye but a late evening flight.....
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buck3y3nut
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting SolarWind (Reply 12):

Almost all international flights from DEL or BOM going towards Europe depart between midnight and 5 am with the exceptions of some flights during DEL's fog season...
Those are all Red-Eyes...
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:41 am

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 19):
Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
MAD-MIA AA

Only one feasible from your list (on IB metal) since there is no curfew at MAD and IB has a block of late departures to EZE,GRU,MVD,MEX,GIG between 0000 and 0230

Actually an IB redeye could takeoff from MAD at 0210 (before MVD and EZE) and land at MIA at 0535. Any thoughts about the feasibility of this one?
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goldorak
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:55 am

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 21):
I know that NRT-CDG on AF at night is fairly successful so why not?

yes, but it leaves NRT at 10 pm, not in the middle of the night. Both leaving and arriving in the middle of the night is really a hassle. Either as a business pax or for tourism, I would never choose such flights, knowing the choice of other flights which currently exist
 
CJAContinental
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:56 am

Cargo flights would take priority at the desitination airports, and I think a trans-atlantic red eye would really make things more complex for control towers and ground operations. Also, if passengers arrive at very early times, then the airport would have to employ cleaning services, and store operators at those times, which is not cost effective for the airport. Therefore, the airports would raise landing fees for those times, and airlines would be less persuaded to fly. Also, although some business travellers may benefit from this a lot, most of the travellers would not. If an airline were to do such flights, those airlines would be Eos, Maxjet, or silverjet.
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
airplanenut
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 6:58 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
While not Europe, El Al's flights from Tel Aviv to Miami and Newark, as well as one frequency to JFK, operate as redeyes.

And a superb flight at that... I've been on 12:30 and 1:00am departures to JFK, and had a great night's sleep on both. The 12:30am flight got in a 4:26am, and we were out of the airport by 6am. If you were a business traveler, that's the time needed to get to the city and have a full day.
Why yes, in fact, I am a rocket scientist...
 
edelag
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:30 am

AM 22 MAD-MTY
Departs 00:20
Arrives 05:20

Saludos,
from Kirkland, Wa
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Viscount724
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:50 am

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 23):
Quoting Noelg (Reply 22):
I did LHR-YYZ as a red eye on AC a few years ago, not sure if it's still operational but we departed at 21:00 from LHR and arrived in Toronto at 00:00.

That's not a redeye but a late evening flight.....

But for passengers it would feel like a redeye since they would have arrived at 0500 LHR time! AC's last LHR-YYZ flight now departs at 1935 and arrives 2240. The closest AC gets to a westbound redeye now is their seasonal LHR-YYT A319 departing LHR at 2240, arriving YYT at 0045, elapsed time 5:35.
 
ehho
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 7):
How many airports in Europe allow departures in the night? For example MUC is shutdown after 23.30 AFAIK...

Don't know exact numbers, but there aren't many. I know that in Germany, CGN is pretty much an exception, one of the very few without curfew.
"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
 
rfields5421
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:00 am

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 17):
well, what about the AF late evening flight to and dailight flight from JFK, then?

I said STRONGLY. There are flights every day outside the NAT system. They have to use different routing and stay away from the NAT airspace. The eastbound flights especially are unable to use the most wind favored routing to Europe.

There has been a lot of research into the impact of jet flying on humans. The general concensus is arrival mid-day to early evening gives a person the best chance of recovering quickly from the time zone changes. Staying awake until late evening at the destination on the first day is important. Earlier morning arrivals would make that difficult

The current US departure / mid-day next day Europe arrival - afternoon Europe departure to US system allows good aircraft scheduling from the US to Europe and back.

I'm not saying those type flights don't have a possibility - just there are a lot of very good reasons why the system is setup and works the way it does.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:14 am

Quoting EHHO (Reply 33):
Quoting MBJ2000 (Reply 7):
How many airports in Europe allow departures in the night? For example MUC is shutdown after 23.30 AFAIK...

Don't know exact numbers, but there aren't many. I know that in Germany, CGN is pretty much an exception, one of the very few without curfew.

And no doubt a major reason why CGN is the largest UPS hub in Europe, and handles quite a few other cargo operations I believe.
http://www.pressroom.ups.com/pressreleases/current/0,1088,4641,00.html
 
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flylku
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:11 am

Quoting Trekster (Reply 5):
Even if i were a business man, why on earth would i wanna land in LAX/SFO at 0430.

I go out of my way to take the night departures from the States. The later the better. By leaving late one is tired enough to actually sleep; a much better way to pass the time on a long flight. Some of my favorites are:

UA's

IAD-EZE - around 11pm
IAD-FRA - around 10pm (will be on it this Sunday)
LAX-SYD - around 11 pm

These all get in before noon; enough time to have a have a half day's meeting before one becomes worthless.
...are we there yet?
 
RobertS975
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:01 am

Problems when arriving in the 4AM time period... nobody to pick you up, very few taxis at that time of night, public transport often shuts down (except NYC).

And it has to be a route that would support an AM departure back to Europe, arriving back in the evening. Must be O/D as there will be little connecting traffic on either end.
 
Mir
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting NA747 (Reply 20):
What about when the jetlag kicks in?

Well, if you got a good night sleep on the flight over, you'd arrive rested, and while you'd be jetlagged, it wouldn't kick in until later in the day, so you could get through some meetings or whatever else you have to do.

I think the timings would work well for business travellers, but not so well for everyone else. Late flights do have their appeal - Eos is starting a very late flight from STN-JFK that arrives at 1:30am.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
JDAirCEO
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:35 am

AA141
Departs LHR 830pm
Arrives JFK 1050pm

Isnt exactly a red-eye but it is a very late departure and allows for a full
day of work and arrives in enough time for a full nights sleep.
An MD-80 is great... in first class
 
2travel2know
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 25):
Actually an IB redeye could takeoff from MAD at 0210 (before MVD and EZE) and land at MIA at 0535. Any thoughts about the feasibility of this one?

There'll be connecting possibilities after 0600 from MIA, for that part O.K., and is nice if IB is into having a day-light MIA-MAD, but if not, what about a wide body waiting until is time to depart MIA in order to arrive MAD 0500?

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 27):
Also, if passengers arrive at very early times, then the airport would have to employ cleaning services, and store operators at those times, which is not cost effective for the airport.

Some major U.S. airport hubs (MIA AA, ATL DL, IAH CO, DFW AA, DTW NW, EWR CO) do have early morning flight banks with some flights departing as early as 0550. Then in order to take advantage of the early morning hub hours, the latest (!) an Euro-Northamerica red-eyes should arrive at those airports should be then between 0430 and 0500. Any earlier arrival should be considered unbearable for the passengers and a pain for the airport.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
haggis79
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 32):
The eastbound flights especially are unable to use the most wind favored routing to Europe.

ehh... why? the westbound flights usually take a route farther up north to avoid those westerly winds, don't they? So the eastbound flights should still be able to make some use of the jetstream....?
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Mir
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:20 pm

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 39):
the westbound flights usually take a route farther up north to avoid those westerly winds, don't they?

NAT tracks are designed on minimizing time, not necessarily following the jetstream exactly. If the jetstream is too wide, it may be that it's faster to just go through it and take the headwinds than spend the extra distance going around the long way.

Eastbound aircraft during the day and westbound aircraft at night have to plan outside the NAT system, but I don't see how in general they would be much of a conflict anyways except at the entry and exit points to the oceanic airspace.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
N62NA
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:39 pm

Quoting Trekster (Reply 5):
Even if i were a business man, why on earth would i wanna land in LAX/SFO at 0430.

By 9am you would be knackered anyway from Jetlag

It's not so much different than landing at LHR / FRA / CDG / AMS at 0600 (or earlier if you get favorable winds). Same goes for flying all night eastbound

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 8):
For the same reason you land in FRA/LHR at 5am. Why does it work in one direction and not in the other? I admit that some Eastbound red-eyes offer slightly better schedules but a red-eye is still a red-eye no matter what direction you fly

Yes! I agree!

Quoting NA747 (Reply 20):
you must be an owl or some kind of nocturnal creature...
I could see it work from the airline's standpoint (feeding traffic), but fresh and ready to work, for me?
What about when the jetlag kicks in?

And sooooo many of you have criticized me for advocating more daylight flights from the eastern USA to Western Europe.

Have any of you actually taken one of the few flights over to Europe in the day? The difference in the way you feel once you get to your destination is like night and day (pun intended). Seriously, it is much less stress on the body and mind flying eastbound to Europe in the daytime.

So, I really don't understand the uproar here about red-eye flights westbound and arriving in the pre-dawn hours.

It's the same thing as flying all night eastbound and arriving at 6am!
 
NewYorkCityBoi
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:00 pm

Red eye westbound: you will feel less tired than eastbound!

Westbound:
if you leave europe late at night (from some airport that dont have curfew)... you have dinner at a normal hour until 9-10 PM and go to the airport at 11PM-12AM the flight depart 2am.. you have 10-11 hour to sleep over the flight and arrive west coast or IAH 5-5.30AM in the morning.. by the time you pass through the custom and get your luggage, it's 6am. Go to you office 7.30 and ready to work because you have 10 hrs of sleep. (you go to bed 3AM in Europe which is equal to 8 or 9 PM in the US...very decent time) It's the same as most southeast asia/india flight to Europe... maybe not that good but OK.

Eastbound:
you leave JFK at 6PM have dinner and only have 4 hours left to sleep.. and you cant sleep cus it's too early but if you do.. you sleep for 3 hours and they wake you up with a breakfast. If you have 11PM flight, maybe a little bit better. If you leave from ORD or Westcoast to Europe around 4-5PM.. the same thing applies, you cant sleep cuz it's too early.. until a bit after meal which is 4 hours into the flight... and you have 3-5 hrs of sleep before they serve breakfast.. and you feel so tired when you get to LHR.

For me, it's always easier to fly red eye westbound
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 8):
a red-eye is still a red-eye no matter what direction you fly

I disagree with you. A red-eye is eastbound flights, IIRC.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
jhooper
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:14 pm

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 15):
While the NAT system doesn't restrict east bound or west bound flights to specific hours - it STRONGLY encourages that flights stay within the set hours for the direction of travel.

Not to mention you're likely to be held at a very inefficient low altitude if flying against the NATs. We do it in the military all the time where profit isn't a consideration.
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Mir
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:49 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 41):
It's not so much different than landing at LHR / FRA / CDG / AMS at 0600 (or earlier if you get favorable winds).

It is different - it's less stressful in terms of jetlag. If you leave London at 1:30am, you'll be pretty damn tired - tired enough to get some sleep on the plane, and you'll arrive at 4:30am in SFO and LAX with a decent amount of rest.

By contrast, if you arrive at 5am in London from LAX, it's 9pm in LAX, and your body clock is about an hour or two away from bedtime. Only problem is that it's morning.

-Mir
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ckfred
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:03 pm

AA's last arrival from LHR arrives ORD at 7:20. That isn't a redeye, but it's probably the latest European arrival at ORD.

IIRC, AA's last arrival used to get in around 9pm, timed so that a person could put in a full day of work in London. My guess is that the departure was moved up to increase the number of connections.
 
andahuailas
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:09 pm

assuming there were red eyes westbound, airlines would hurt having to schedule the eastbound early mornings. Daylight flights from N.A. have proven less successful than eastbound red eyes, and having the airplanes sitting all day for the return leg is not quite profitable. That is why 99.9 % of westbound flights are not red eyes.
 
krje1980
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:48 pm

Regarding the potential turn-around issue, I still believe it might be a possibility if the schedule is something like this:

LHR - US West Coast. Departs 1.30 a.m., arrives 4:30 a.m (roughly).
US West Coast - LHR. Departs 10.30 a.m., arrives 5:30 a.m (roughly):

This would, in other words, be quite the same as many of the flights operating between Europe and SE Asia. My recent flight between CPH - SIN and back is a good example. The flight starts in Singapore 1 a.m., and lands in CPH around 7 a.m. The return-flight leaves CPH around 11/11:30 a.m. and arrives back in Singapore at 6 a.m. the next day.
 
krje1980
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RE: Red-eye Flight From Europe To North America?

Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:54 pm

Just a correction. I see that I have scheduled the two examples above for 11 hour flights, when the return trip obviously should be 10 due to the favorable winds. Thus, I wish to reschedule my suggested flight to an 11:30 departure  Smile.