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1337Delta764
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What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:32 am

Delta has been expanding internationally at a fast rate. Delta has six 777-200LRs on order. With the growing international capacity, I wouldn't be suprised if Delta were to order some 777-300ERs. If Delta were to order the 777-300ER, what routes could they potentially be used on?

I would say ATL-NRT, and maybe ATL-TLV.
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CV880
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:39 am

ATL/PVG-PEK
ATL/GRU
ATL/HKG
LAX/NRT
LAX/HKG
LAX/SYD
JFK/NRT
JFK/HKG
 
Alitalia744
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:41 am

This topic has been covered in previous "what will Delta do with 777-XXX" threads.

Let them first indicate what they'll be flying with their 6+ 77Ls before we go crazy on 77Ws...shall we?
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
dl767captain
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:37 am

I think it would be great for DL to get some 777-300's, it seems like they could definitely use them. Personally i would like to see DL order the 747-8 but im guessing it would be too big for them. I think we will see a -300 order soon, maybe even at the same time as the 787 announcement and they could be taking some 777's at a good deal to hold them over until the 787's are available.
 
georgebush
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting CV880 (Reply 1):
LAX/SYD

DL couldn't possibly compete with UA and QF on this route...
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 4):
DL couldn't possibly compete with UA and QF on this route...

This is based on what?
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:11 am

I hope DL management is looking this thread over.

My opinion: I think DL will eventually order them. When is any ones guess but they need something bigger than the 772ER and 772L on some routes and could see it fitting in nicely into DL's fleet.

Routes that warrant it:

ATL-TLV
ATL-NRT
JFK-TLV
ATL-CDG
ATL-SCL

Hunter
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georgebush
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:14 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 5):
This is based on what?

They would have to charge too much.
Al Gore invented global warming.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:45 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 6):
Routes that warrant it:

ATL-TLV
ATL-NRT
JFK-TLV
ATL-CDG
ATL-SCL

ATL-SCL??
I would place the 777-300 on ATL-GRU long before the service to Santiago. There is a much stronger demand for service to the Brazilian market than the Chilean market, This is made even more evident with the number of flights that not only Delta Air Lines, but other US airlines offer to the Brazilian market.

ATL-TLV & JFK-TLV??
With the advent of the JFK-TLV to compliment the ATL-TLV, there is not a need to upgrade the ATL service to a 777-300. Remember the JFK-TLV service has not started, and Continental could very well remain the only SkyTeam service on NYC-TLV for the long run. Delta was in the market before but left. Today they are going up against airlines that have a much longer established presence. Take a wait an see attitude.

ATL-NRT??
I think that we will be seeing a JFK-NRT with the 777-200 within the next year or so. In that case the expansion in the Japanese market with an additional service from JFK will not warrant anything larger than the 777-200 currently being used to Narita.

ATL-CDG??
At current Atlanta is more than well served with the current flights to Roissy offered by Air France and Delta Air Lines. Combining that with the immense amount of service by Air France to other US markets of SFO, LAX, IAD, EWR, PHL, JFK, BOS, MIA, IAH, DTW, ORD, and SEA you do not have the need for such a large aircraft on the Atlanta to Paris route.

Quoting CV880 (Reply 1):

ATL/PVG-PEK
ATL/HKG
LAX/NRT
LAX/HKG
LAX/SYD
JFK/HKG

ATL-PVG & ATL-PEK??
Neither route has been given the go ahead, the routes if they are given the authority would be much better served with a 777-200LR. The demand and connections from and through the Atlanta gateway does not, nor will not sustain d=feasibility on anything larger than the 777-200LR.

ATL-HKG??
I am betting that this route is being looked at with service on the 777-200LR, as it is within the range. To place a 777-300 on a new route that has not been proven would be suicide. I cannot see this route warranting anything larger than a 777-200LR.

LAX-NRT??
If and when this route will/may return has yet to be seen. Delta Air Lines would have to command a larger market presence than United Airlines in the LAX market to make the route work with anything larger than a 777-200. To use a 777-300 on the route would be financial suicide. To use such a large plane in an already overcrowded and highly competitive market would bode well for the new entrant. If however the route proved well and Delta Air Lines reached the market share level that United Airlines has in the LAX market, at only that point could I see such a large aircraft being used.

LAX-HKG??
Please see above.. I would add that Delta Air Lines re-entering the Los Angeles to Asia market is a huge gamble. During the time of Delta Air Lines absence from the market Cathay Pacific has expanded and United Airlines is resuming service. Delta Air Lines going up against the 3x 747-400 of CX and 1x 747-400 of UA is going to be very hard to tap into. United Airlines has an established presence in Hong Kong with onward connections to Saigon and Singapore. Cathay Pacific is based in Hong Kong. The route would also compete with China Southern, a Delta code-share partner that serves the Los Angeles to Canton route, which is not far from Hong Kong.

LAX-SYD??
Please see above.. I would add that the route would be going head to head with Qantas, United Airlines, and V Australia. Again you would be running into a much more established presence of United and Qantas in the market. On the Australian side you have Virgin Blue/V Australia which is very well known and has a very, very esteemed product. Again, I could not see a 777-300 on a route that Delta has not yet established, and marketplace in the LAX arena the is vastly overshadowed by that of United Airlines.

JFK-HKG??
Please see above..

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
QXatFAT
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:01 am

What are the differences in the amount of passangers held in an 772LR and an 773?
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MCOflyer
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:17 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 9):
What are the differences in the amount of passangers held in an 772LR and an 773?

The 773ER hold more pax but has less range. It can do most transpac missions easily.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:26 am

other than the conduit market of ATL-CDG, i dont see it
 
worldtraveler
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:32 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 7):
They would have to charge too much.

you do realize that DL's costs are lower than UA's, don't you. If UA can make money and DL and UA get comparable revenues, DL will make more money.

While I agree w/ Alitalia that the specualtion is riveting, I wouldn't go too far out on a limb in doing DL's route planning just yet.

I will make a couple comments.... I don't think you will see DL put a 777 into Latin America.... 1st, South America schedules eat up too much airplane time and 2nd, if there is enough demand for a 777, DL will add additional gateways. The 767 is likely to be DL's plane for South America for quite some time.

the most likely candidate for a 773 in DL's network will be LHR... they will have limited slots and will maximize the lift they can get out of those relatively small number of slots. Given that JFK and ATL both have large connecting banks, the 773 can easily pump lots of passengers into LHR.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:49 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 10):
The 773ER hold more pax but has less range. It can do most transpac missions easily.

How many more pax's though. People keep on saying it would be fullish to upgrade from an 772 to an 773. Are the passanger numbers that much different?

Thanks for the info though MCO
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MCOflyer
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:55 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 13):

Thanks for the info though MCO

Anytime.

It would worth it to upgrade a route with full pax and cargo. It wouldn't if it wasn't making money. I'm sure everyone will agree the Braziil and TLV markets warrant a 300ER.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
thering
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:07 pm

Great bird for DL international expantion.

ATL-CDG
ATL-TLV (and then the 772 to ATL-GRU)
ATL-NRT
146 319 320 321 332 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 742 743 744 762 763 772 773 CRJ ER4 100 F50 F27 M11 D10
 
haggis79
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:28 pm

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 8):
Combining that with the immense amount of service by Air France to other US markets of SFO, LAX, IAD, EWR, PHL, JFK, BOS, MIA, IAH, DTW, ORD, and SEA you do not have the need for such a large aircraft on the Atlanta to Paris route.

but still AF is currently serving CDG-ATL with a 744 with close to 500 seats....
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
deltal1011man
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:23 pm

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 8):
Please see above.. I would add that Delta Air Lines re-entering the Los Angeles to Asia market is a huge gamble. During the time of Delta Air Lines absence from the market Cathay Pacific has expanded and United Airlines is resuming service. Delta Air Lines going up against the 3x 747-400 of CX and 1x 747-400 of UA is going to be very hard to tap into. United Airlines has an established presence in Hong Kong with onward connections to Saigon and Singapore. Cathay Pacific is based in Hong Kong. The route would also compete with China Southern, a Delta code-share partner that serves the Los Angeles to Canton route, which is not far from Hong Kong.

I'm sorry LAX-Asia again?(try PDX not LAX) and BTW there was a press release from DL that LAX would become the number too DL hub to Latin America(ATL #1) and they would add Asia flights as soon as the get the A/C(hint 125 787s plus as main T7s they can get)
I'm to lazy to find that press release but its out there somewhere
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
thering
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:00 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 17):
there was a press release from DL that LAX would become the number too DL hub to Latin America

Really? Didn't know about that. Although that's weird, since they've started JFK-GRU services last year and not LAX-GRU.

Do they already fly LAX-LIM?? LAN is on that and RG used to run this service starting at GRU also on the golden years, so it looks like to be a good shot.
146 319 320 321 332 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 742 743 744 762 763 772 773 CRJ ER4 100 F50 F27 M11 D10
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 17):
BTW there was a press release from DL that LAX would become the number too DL hub to Latin America

As of yet, this consists solely of Mexico (mostly all ERJ's) and a handful of destinations in Central America. If/when DL ramps up trans-Pacific service, I can see them also going into South America. They could try a couple of the larger destinations there, but I wouldn't expect to see a huge expansion beyond what they already have until they have sufficient feed at LAX. It will take them awhile to rebuild the hub they pulled down there, if that is indeed their plan.
 
jetlanta
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 2):
Let them first indicate what they'll be flying with their 6+ 77Ls before we go crazy on 77Ws...shall we?

It's 8 now. Quite possibly more to come.
 
777STL
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 5):
This is based on what?

Lack of feeding/connecting traffic in Australia for one.....

UA has NZ to an extent and QF has AA in the US.
PHX based
 
columba
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:01 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 6):
I hope DL management is looking this thread over.

I think they have better sources for their fleet requirements than a.net  Wink
Nevertheless a 77W in Delta colors would look great, the 77W is without doubt the best looking 777 (at least in my humble opinion).
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
MCOAviationFan
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:11 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 20):
It's 8 now. Quite possibly more to come

The last official word from DL that I am aware of is that they converted one 777ER option to an order for a 777LR bringing the total number of 777LRs on order to 6. When were the additional two aircraft you mentioned above ordered?
 
MCOflyer
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 22):
I think they have better sources for their fleet requirements than a.net Wink
Nevertheless a 77W in Delta colors would look great, the 77W is without doubt the best looking 777 (at least in my humble opinion).

I agree but they have management looking everything over as people on here work for DL.

If DL were to order the 77W for the following routes they would need:

ATL-TLV- 2a/c
ATL-GRU- 2a/c
ATL-CDG- 1a/c
ATL-NRT- 2a/c

That makes 7 a/c but they could it with 6 if DL times everything right. If DL were to order it, expect to see a order of 6-8 773ER.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
FURUREFA
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):

you do realize that DL's costs are lower than UA's, don't you. If UA can make money and DL and UA get comparable revenues, DL will make more money.

Not if UA has significant connection opportunities in LAX and is much more established in the Australian and Los Angeles markets.

Matt
 
MSYtristar
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:41 am

ATL-CDG would be a good candidate for the 77W....hub to hub flights always rack in the passengers....and from what I seen, the flights generally always go out full, both DL and AF.

I could also see ATL-ICN being a good 77W candidate...ATL-LHR obviously...probably a few more.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 20):
It's 8 now. Quite possibly more to come.

Notice I said 6+ and have been for a while now  Wink

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 23):
The last official word from DL that I am aware of is that they converted one 777ER option to an order for a 777LR bringing the total number of 777LRs on order to 6. When were the additional two aircraft you mentioned above ordered?

You are correct on the last official word being a total of 6
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
dl767captain
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:00 am

Is there any chance DL could use a 748 or would it be just too big
 
MCOflyer
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 28):
Is there any chance DL could use a 748 or would it be just too big

No way. Too much capacity. Its a good idea.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 14):
I'm sure everyone will agree the Braziil and TLV markets warrant a 300ER.

Brazil may (or may not) warrant it... but the scheduling stipulations of the S.American market may lead DL to envision better overall utilization for such a relatively small fleet.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
olle
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:15 am

Is it smart to order new 777 when there is a A350 around the corner? As I understand the 777 is outsold for a while and why get a product that is less efficient then its competition?

Now I put my neck on a bad place  Wink
 
Alitalia744
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting Olle (Reply 31):
Is it smart to order new 777 when there is a A350 around the corner?

Well considering the A350 won't be out for another, what? let's say 7-8 years and they need ULH/LH capacity now, it is kinda smart no?
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
MCOAviationFan
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 27):
Notice I said 6+ and have been for a while now

Actually, I had noticed the 6+ you have mentioned. You're usually spot on in your comments so I went to the Boeing site to check on orders and it still shows just the 6 LR's. You must have a pretty good source.  Wink

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 27):
You are correct on the last official word being a total of 6

What's your take on the unofficial order total?
 
rb211
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:55 am

With the way D E L T A 's summer schedule usually runs, I wouldn't be suprised to see one or two ATL-MCO. They've run it with every big jet they can throw at it except for maybe the 747's they had back in the seventies and most of the time they were packed.
Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:57 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 17):
I'm sorry LAX-Asia again?(try PDX not LAX) and BTW there was a press release from DL that LAX would become the number too DL hub to Latin America(ATL #1) and they would add Asia flights as soon as the get the A/C(hint 125 787s plus as main T7s they can get)
I'm to lazy to find that press release but its out there somewhere

LAX-HKG
LAX-NRT
LAX-NGO
LAX-ANC-SEL

All flown by Delta Air Lines in the past..

The Latin American market for what it is worth from Los Angeles doesn't amount to a hill of beans.. The majority of services from Los Angeles to Central America on Delta Air Lines metal is less than daily and has little if any traffic to support a flight to Asia on a plane as large as a 777-300. The Mexican destinations that Delta Air Lines/Connection serves from Los Angeles are in the same situation they have little or no impact on all on feeding an Asia service from Los Angeles with a 777-300.

In regards to the number two (not too), hub by Delta Air Lines to Latin America I would give that title to New York. JFK which is growing more and more by the day to the Latin American market via Delta Air Lines. I would not by any means expect for American Airlines or United Airlines just to sit back if Delta Air Lines were to inaugurate new service to South America from Los Angeles. American Airlines is in the best position with its partner LAN serving Lima and Santiago nonstop. Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires one-stop. In addition the numerous other connecting options via American Airlines own metal to South America via ORD, DFW, MIA, and JFK.


-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
olle
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:07 am

So when can an airline that today orders a 777 get it delivered? It has been a great sales success and should be sold out for a while....
 
Alitalia744
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting Olle (Reply 36):
So when can an airline that today orders a 777 get it delivered? It has been a great sales success and should be sold out for a while....

Well all of Delta's 6+ 777LRs will be delivered by the end of 2009, so within 2 years.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
dl767captain
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting Olle (Reply 31):

Well ya it is smart for a couple reasons, the A350 won't be out for like 7 years and the earliest delivery slots could be taken, and if they wanted they could order more now then replace the oldest ones and wait to replace the newest, but there is no way DL will go airbus, they are extremely loyal to boeing and have the gentlemens agreement just like AA and CO
 
MCOAviationFan
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:18 am

I understand that the first two LR's for DL will be delivered in Feb and Mar 2008 to fly JFK-BOM. The two ER's currently on the route will probably be used on ATL-PVG if DL is awarded the route.
 
brucek
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 6):
I hope DL management is looking this thread over.

Slightly off topic but:

I have often wondered, if airline execs that were able to post here with information that quashed any speculation over routes, equipment, future planes, etc., what would be the effect on this forum? On this topic, say the CEO posted with a firm "No, DL is not even looking at the B773ER". Would it stop the thread, I wonder?

Thanks, Bruce.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:32 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 35):

The Latin American market for what it is worth from Los Angeles doesn't amount to a hill of beans..

IINM, DL already carries more pax from LAX to LatAm nonstop than any other carrier, and it's not anywhere near done growing its network there.

Quoting Brucek (Reply 40):
Would it stop the thread, I wonder?

Only if there was some manner of authenticating the claim that it was indeed a member of a qualified managerial position within the airline.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
atlantaflyboy
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:48 am

Considering that DL is planning on upgrading it's Biz-Elite product on the 777 fleet with the introduction of the LR next year I would guess that any future seating on the 200/300's would be very close to Air Canada.

Air Canada is configured - 200LR - 42J/228Y ; 300ER - 42J/307Y - a difference of 79 seats, all economy

I am not sure if the difference is enough to justify adding another sub-fleet to DL's mix, even with the increase in cargo capacity it would offer. 8 200ER RR, 6/8 200LR GE, and potentially 6/8 300ER GE ........ I would think they would be better served to add more 200's both ER and LR than take the financial risk of the 300ER's.

Just my    for the day

[Edited 2007-07-29 21:49:20]
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:57 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 41):
IINM, DL already carries more pax from LAX to LatAm nonstop than any other carrier, and it's not anywhere near done growing its network there

If that is true that is great news... Do you have a source?

I question the viability of Delta Air Lines to offer service from South America to the LAX market nonstop. United Airlines is in a very defensive mode at LAX, and American is the wild card. United Airlines is rumored to growing more and more friendly with TAM and TACA, and American Airlines as can be seen has a very good relationship with LAN and Mexicana. American Airlines is very defensive of its deep South American market share. It would not be in the best interest for Delta Air Lines to go head to head with LAN, as they have a very solid following in the Los Angeles market which serves Lima and Santiago nonstop; Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires one-stop.

In recent months we have seen United Air Lines match Delta Air Lines with the ICT, and SAF services. It was rumored that Delta Air Lines was going to enter the LAX-HKG market, but United Airlines and Cathay Pacific both trumped them. United Airlines by reintroducing the route with a daily 747-400, and Cathay Pacific announcing a new 3rd daily 747-400 service.

Then there was the rumor of Delta Air Lines wanting in on the Los Angeles to China market. Of which United Airlines pre-emptively struck by filing for a daily 747-400 service to Shanghai. Instead Delta Air Lines chose to file for service from Atlanta, a market that would not benefit many Americans due to both its location and lack of demand.

It has yet to be seen if Delta Air Lines will be viable long-term for long haul intercontinental service out of LAX. For now I am taking a wait and see attitude. Adding a bunch of Jungle Jets to destinations thrown on a map doesn't mean that Delta Air Lines will become a threat to United Airlines or American Airlines in the LAX market.

In the interim and back to the topic I dont feel that the 777-300 is a good option for Delta Air Lines as it is to much airplane for an airline that is based in a connection reliant headquarters at ATL, and doesn't have a strong enough hub at LAX to warrant such a aircraft size to a market it does not have an established presence in. If it does enter the Australian or Asian market it would be wise to stick with the 777-200 as the -300 is just to much airplane for an airline such as Delta. If any only if Delta Air Lines can reestablish its LAX to Asia market, only at that time can I see a larger aircraft being entered into the fleet.

There is a lot of talk about ATL-TLV needing a 777-300, however at the same time many chose to ignore that JFK-TLV is being added in 2008. That route will serve as O/D and taking on the additional demand that ATL-TLV cannot offer. In other words washing out each other without the need for the 777-300 from either market to Tel Aviv.

In reference to the Paris service operating with the 777-300. That service is doing fine as is with the dispersal of service and connecting flights being fed through ATL, JFK, and CVG. The 777-300 at most could only be used seasonally and would be a very expensive toy to deal with in the months of November to April. As I have said before Air France does more than well with the nonstop service it offers to DTW, ORD, IAD, EWR, JFK, BOS, PHL, ATL, MIA, IAH, LAX, SFO, and SEA.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
Alitalia744
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:07 am

Quoting Atlantaflyboy (Reply 42):
Considering that DL is planning on upgrading it's Biz-Elite product on the 777 fleet with the introduction of the LR next year I would guess that any future seating on the 200/300's would be very close to Air Canada.

Air Canada is configured - 200LR - 42J/228Y ; 300ER - 42J/307Y - a difference of 79 seats, all economy

Delta's 777-232LRs will be configured 43J/233Y for a total of 276 seats.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
MCOAviationFan
Posts: 33
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:28 am

Several of DL's int'l routes report 90% load factors year round (ATL - NRT being one). This would indicate these routes could use a higher capacity airplane depending on what the yields are on said routes. However, I just don't see DL ordering the 77W either. Just my opinion. I do believe that DL will order several more ER's in addition to the LRs being ordered. Whitehurst has indicated DL would like to begin Asia service from LAX, but mentioned these services would need to be flown by 777s. Therefore, this planned LAX expansion is probably a few years off. Nevertheless, more 777s are needed at least until 787s are ordered and begin to be delivered, which would probably not be until 2013 unless 787s are leased or Boeing has some slots available for preferred customers as several posters have indicated.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 43):
Do you have a source?

Grinstein's personal message would be the latest, spouted off the numbers.
Doubt that one would still be up there, but they're available for anyone to listen to.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 43):
a connection reliant headquarters at ATL

...what headquarter hub isn't? AA@DFW? Nope. UA@ORD? Nope.

ATL's one of the largest O&D airports in the USA and world-- according to the First Equity Aviation & Aerospace Almanac (citing the study completed by ECLAT Consulting), they were the nation's 4th largest domestic O&D airport the 2nd largest total O&D, 2004 (last year the most recent tabulations have been publicized). So if by chance you're attempting to suggest a deficiency of O&D, sufficient to sustain overall operations, as somehow evident due to the amount of transfer pax utilized; I'd say your argument would be rather weak at best... considering the ratio of transfer to total O&D generated is more or less in-line with the home of most major domestic competitors.

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 45):
Several of DL's int'l routes report 90% load factors year round (ATL - NRT being one). This would indicate these routes could use a higher capacity airplane

...how exactly?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 46):
...what headquarter hub isn't? AA@DFW? Nope. UA@ORD? Nope.

ORD has a lot more O/D than ATL could ever imagine to have..

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 46):
ATL's one of the largest O&D airports in the USA and world-- according to the First Equity Aviation & Aerospace Almanac (citing the study completed by ECLAT Consulting), they were the nation's 4th largest domestic O&D airport the 2nd largest total O&D, 2004 (last year the most recent tabulations have been publicized).

Lets not open the pandoras box of O/D markets again..

Here is a excellent source..

http://www.bts.gov/programs/economic...vel_price_index/html/table_17.html

According to the Year 2006

#1 New York City & Newark
#2 Greater Los Angeles Area
#3 Chicago
#4 Los Angeles
#5 Las Vegas
#6 Atlanta

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
greggarious
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RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 12):
I don't think you will see DL put a 777 into Latin America.... 1st, South America schedules eat up too much airplane time

What is the reason for this? North-South routings instead of East-West ones?
 
Delta4eva
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:20 am

RE: What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?

Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 47):
ORD has a lot more O/D than ATL could ever imagine to have

Uh...yeah Chicago and NYC have higher O/D in general, however, they are served by multiple airports. If you look at ConcordeBoy's statement, he said that ATL as an airport has one of the highest O/D in the US and world. NYC, Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles, etc. all have multiple commercial airports serving the city. Atlanta has one.
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