Revo
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BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:32 am

British Airways is leading the race to become the first airline to operate non-stop flights from London to Sydney.
The 9,200 mile journey, which will take up to 20 hours, has eluded airlines in the past because there have never been any commercially viable aircraft capable of flying such a distance.
Airbus is offering BA the new A350-900R model, which will be capable of flying about 9,400 miles. Passengers have a while longer to wait though before finally being able to take a non-stop flight Down Under – the A350-900R won’t take to the skies for at least another seven years.
BA’s bitter rival, Virgin Atlantic, has already committed itself to Boeing’s rival to the A350, the 787 Dreamliner. This has a range of up to 8,500 nautical miles, which would enable Virgin to launch non-stop flights from London to Perth in Western Australia. Virgin’s 787 is likely to enter service in 2011.
Virgin may become the first to launch non-stop Australia flights, but until Boeing offers an extended-range version of the 787 the key markets of Sydney and Melbourne will remain out of reach.
Australian airline Qantas also has ambitions to offer non-stop flights from Sydney to London using extended-range 787s.

From http://news.flightmapping.com/07/07/...london-to-sydney-flights_1393.html
 
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ClassicLover
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BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:39 am

It'll be very interesting to see who does this first... if it's any airline before QF, you'll see QF copy them as soon as possible  Smile

Quoting Revo (Thread starter):
Airbus is offering BA the new A350-900R model, which will be capable of flying about 9,400 miles.

With what kind of payload?

Interesting stuff. I still think Boeing haven't put out a 787-10 because their waiting for Airbus to get to design freeze so they can counter!
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
Beaucaire
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BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:41 am

What a thrilling idea to stay put in a 787 tube for 20 hours non-stop....
I can accommodate the idea of an A380 to handle the distance non-stop but no way would I like to fly that long in a 787-It's a pure matter of space and perception of space-I admit and has nothing to do with the technical feasibility's of any 787 to make the distance...
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
rdwootty
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BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:43 am

I cannot imagine the smell after the flight arrives with 20 hours cooped up and the loos closed due to a malfunction!! How much food will they need and also water?? there will not be many takers from my clients as they all like to go EK so they can stretch thier legs en route.
No go for me I am afraid.
 
ikramerica
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BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:44 am

This short article is worthless. Who wrote it?

Quoting Revo (Thread starter):
Airbus is offering BA the new A350-900R model, which will be capable of flying about 9,400 miles. Passengers have a while longer to wait though before finally being able to take a non-stop flight Down Under – the A350-900R won’t take to the skies for at least another seven years.

9400 mile range is NOT ENOUGH to fly this route. You need 10000nm minimum due to winds. And the article doesn't distinguish between "miles" and "nautical miles"

Not to mention Boeing offers a 9450nm jet right now. Why do passengers have "to wait" when they could have already bought the 77L? Because 9400nm is not enough range...

and the 787 is not a "8500 mile" aircraft according to Boeing. That data is old. And the A350-900R will NOT likely take to the skies in 7 years. R/LR versions take 2 to 3 years in most cases. That makes it 9-10 years. A 788LR or 789LR would likely be available before then. With 10000nm range? I'd assume because it's the only reason to make the plane to begin with...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
What a thrilling idea to stay put in a 787 tube for 20 hours non-stop....

You've never flown long haul then? By that I mean a SYD-BKK-LHR or a SYD-LAX-LHR?

No difference in being cooped up for 24 hours with a 90 minute stop than 20 hours non-stop.

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 3):
I cannot imagine the smell after the flight arrives with 20 hours cooped up and the loos closed due to a malfunction!!

Please, talk about worst case scenario.  Yeah sure

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
I can accommodate the idea of an A380 to handle the distance non-stop but no way would I like to fly that long in a 787-It's a pure matter of space and perception of space

Sure, and you've flown both? Talk about making a statement with absolutely no basis in fact whatsoever...  Yeah sure
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
adicool
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:54 am

Seriously...
Airlines haven't offered this service bc it's simply not very practical. I mean, 20h, c'mon! They'd need tons of water, food etc. I think such a flight would be too strenuous for some people - let alone the FA...having one stop-over in SIN or DUB is just fine, you can walk around a little, have a smoke, get all fresh . I sounds like a really bad idea to me...there are also some medical concerns...I mean, what will be the affect on pax after having stayed in a isolated space for 20h...
definitely not for me, I already think 12h FRA/CDG-LAX is dreadful!
 
ek036
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:59 am

It should cut off 2.5hours of total traveling time. I think is should appeal to more business traveler's and premium ecconomy.
Still think QF or virgin should try the water with a LHR - PER on a 777-200LR non stop first!  Wink
 
pilot21
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting Adicool (Reply 6):
Airlines haven't offered this service bc it's simply not very practical. I mean, 20h, c'mon!

Well having done 16hrs on CX from JFK-HKG, and people do SIN-LAX/JFK which is 17 to 18hrs, the extra 2 hrs isn't that much more, the airlines have proved (more or less) that people can cope with these long flights, but the aircraft range for this sector is still beyond reach, and even if the plane that can do it is built, the cost V's benefit of doing it non-stop is very borderline. (re: lack of cargo that can be transported/plus lack of pax/plus the amount of fuel needed etc)
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
bjornstrom
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting Adicool (Reply 6):
Seriously...
Airlines haven't offered this service bc it's simply not very practical. I mean, 20h, c'mon! They'd need tons of water, food etc.

EWR-SIN on SQ A345 is already 19:20 so there's not much new with 20 hours. I've done SQ20 SIN-LAX 16:20 and it was fine...in Raffles Class Big grin
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AeroWesty
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydne

Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:12 am

The only thing I have doubts about this on is if you look at the current offerings LHR-SYD, some of them make enormously long stopovers in SE Asia eastbound in comparison to their westbound flights. Is it due to curfews? BA9 stops for nearly 3 hours in BKK and BA15 stops for over 2 hours in SIN. Westbound, the stopovers are 90 minutes or less.

To do it in 20 hours nonstop, BA would have to depart LHR at midnight or later to arrive in SYD when the curfew is lifted in the morning, or change it to a morning departure. If this is such a viable "nonstop" route, what would prevent them from doing it on a short tech-stop basis somewhere now, just inside the curfew hours for both LHR and SYD?
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Bofredrik
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:12 am

Maybe would it be a market for F and J and that will be the only type of fares that
the airline would like to have. I can not see a 20 hr non-stop full of lower Y-class
fares. But you never know... Maybe you can work onboard and save some money
for yourself and the airline? "Do you want a ordinary seat or do you like to work
as a steward? We have a vacancy for the second half of the flight, 10 hours...". "OR
you can clean the aircraft inside after landing and we reduce your fare by 100 GBP!"
"My last offer today is to keep the pilots awake. It gives you a reduction of 200 GBP
if you take the 20 hr shift..."  Smile
 
bjornstrom
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:14 am

How many hours do you actually save flying LHR-SYD instead of LHR-SIN-SYD?

If the actual time savings are about 3 hours or more I'd say there is a market for F/C/Y+ flights such as the current C/Y+ SQ flights SIN-EWR/LAX.
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noelg
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
What a thrilling idea to stay put in a 787 tube for 20 hours non-stop....

Obviously never tried LHR-AKL then, 26 hours in economy with only an hour's stop in SIN or HKG (if the first flight isn't delayed), millions do this every year with no problem!

That's no real issue really, you just get on with it and the flight passes in no time!
 
AeroWesty
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:20 am

Quoting Bjornstrom (Reply 12):
How many hours do you actually save flying LHR-SYD instead of LHR-SIN-SYD?

BA15 is 22h40m including a 2h10m stopover in SIN, and BA9 is 23h05m including a 2h55m stopover in BKK.
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ClassicLover
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting Bjornstrom (Reply 12):
How many hours do you actually save flying LHR-SYD instead of LHR-SIN-SYD?

In 1989, the QF 747-400 delivery did LHR-SYD in 20 hours non-stop (30 guests on board, nothing else).
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
sllevin
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 5):
No difference in being cooped up for 24 hours with a 90 minute stop than 20 hours non-stop.

With a stop is definitely worse. Because the total time spent in the airplane is longer...you have to slow down, descend, land, taxi, taxi back out, climb, etc.

Airbus would be throwing down an interesting gauntlet; since the aircraft would be, to some extent, "useless" if it didn't make the numbers, the penalties for non-performance would have to be quite large.

Steve
 
vv701
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:28 am

Do we really expect BA to still have an Australian service by the time the A350 900R flies let alone enters service? They have terminated their services to both MEL and PER in recent years. And less than a year ago they downgraded one of their two remaining flights - both to SYD - from a 744 to a 772 service.

If the JSA is still in force when the A350 900R enters service and if BA are still serving SYD at that time it would seem the ideal time to quit the LHR-SYD route. They could then allow QF to fly the route non-stop on behalf of them both. Then BA would not have the costs of buying and operating an aircraft type simply to be able to offer one or two return flights a day on just one route.

To me the 'race' BA is meant to be leading is one they will never enter.
 
Viscount724
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14):
Quoting Bjornstrom (Reply 12):
How many hours do you actually save flying LHR-SYD instead of LHR-SIN-SYD?


BA15 is 22h40m including a 2h10m stopover in SIN, and BA9 is 23h05m including a 2h55m stopover in BKK.

QF1 is an hour faster -- 21:35 with a 1:30 stop at SIN.
 
Ken777
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydne

Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:50 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 15):
In 1989, the QF 747-400 delivery did LHR-SYD in 20 hours non-stop (30 guests on board, nothing else).

Actually I was told by a QF employee the flight did carry freight - one football.  Smile

As for making that trip non-stop there is no way I would go for it. I'm too old and wold end up with a fried brain at the end of the flight. Besides, there is far more pleasure in stopping overnight someplace I have never been (or some place I enjoy visiting) to pass up the chance that a layover gives me.
 
albird87
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:58 am

Well if BA are really interested in doing this route then i would expect them to aquire some 772LRs and then do the same as SQ with there SIN-EWR route and just have it as a premium cabin service. I wonder if the demand for a full club world config aircraft would work or would they need to add some WTP??
 
AeroWesty
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
QF1 is an hour faster -- 21:35 with a 1:30 stop at SIN.

So nonstop, without descent, stopover time, takeoff, climb, etc., will come in under 20 hours. Is it possible to do it within the curfews without changing it to a morning departure?
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qantas787
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydne

Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Adicool (Reply 6):
have a smoke, get all fresh

Talk about an oxymoron.  Smile
G'day
 
jwmd123
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting Bjornstrom (Reply 9):
EWR-SIN on SQ A345 is already 19:20 so there's not much new with 20 hours. I've done SQ20 SIN-LAX 16:20 and it was fine...in Raffles Class

Last year I completed SIN-LAX in Economy (albeit executive economy) for 16.5 hours and whilst a first it sounded daunting, after it was over, it was not that bad.

Anyway, I am heading to SYD in October and if I had my way I would not mind a straight flight. Given the schedule we have with VS vis Hong Kong, it would cut over 4 hours off if it were a straight flight
 
sparklehorse12
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:01 am

I can't imagine doing it straight. I can't stand much over 8 hours let alone 20!
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
speedbirdegjj
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:44 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
The only thing I have doubts about this on is if you look at the current offerings LHR-SYD, some of them make enormously long stopovers in SE Asia eastbound in comparison to their westbound flights. Is it due to curfews? BA9 stops for nearly 3 hours in BKK and BA15 stops for over 2 hours in SIN. Westbound, the stopovers are 90 minutes or less.

Thats purely due to the 5am curfew at LHR nothing more
 
LHRBlueSkies
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:45 am

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 24):
I can't imagine doing it straight. I can't stand much over 8 hours let alone 20!

Me neither! I'd much rather a stop-over in SIN or BKK... Now, come back to me when the a/c is built that can do it in around 16 hours and then we'll be talking!
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
 
boysteve
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:49 am

Quoting Adicool (Reply 6):
having one stop-over in SIN or DUB is just fine,

LHR-SYD via DUB? Interesting!

Anyway, I think that this would be a really good PR exercise and should be seriously looked at. Some people say who would want to spend 20 hrs in a tube which is a fair question. However how many choose to get out at BKK or SIN to stretch their legs currently and how many choose to stay on board when travelling on the current BA/QF services? I am thinking more practically here, but would BA choose to have a pool of just 3 planes to operate a daily LHR-SYD none stop service or will they go for a more flexible fleet and make a none stop impossible. Personally I think the latter.

Could BA and QF join forces though and operate a daily flight which truly was a joint venture. Maybe have one side of the aircraft in BA colours and the other in QF? Just an idea. I guess timings for such a flight would be something like;

LHR 12:00, SYD 18:00 ( +1 day ), 20hr flight
SYD 21:00, LHR 08:00, 21hr flight
 
AeroWesty
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydne

Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting SpeedbirdEGJJ (Reply 25):
Thats purely due to the 5am curfew at LHR nothing more

Did you mean the 5am SYD curfew for landings? I thought there was a takeoff curfew at LHR beginning at 11:30pm.

But my point still stands, what benefit is there to a nonstop flight if there's no real "time" saved in terms of a workday? A flight departing LHR will either have to be a morning departure, taking up two business days (which you can do already flying one-stop), or it would have to depart after midnight from LHR. If it can't be done within the curfew hours at either end, might as well just do a direct flight with a tech stop for fuel somewhere along the most direct routing, without anyone deplaning or boarding to make it as fast as possible.
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nzrich
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:01 am

If a plane can do SYD-LHR what about AKL-LHR? how much further is AKL ?
"Pride of the pacific"
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:03 am

I'd do it, would do a long weekend somewhere on the way over or back but if I had the choice it wouldn't stop both ways.
John Hancock
 
jbernie
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:04 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
If this is such a viable "nonstop" route, what would prevent them from doing it on a short tech-stop basis somewhere now, just inside the curfew hours for both LHR and SYD?

QF has stated that they do not want to charge a premium fare for a "non-stop" service only to have it stop on route for a tech stop, no matter how quick it might be (this is vs a potential west bound stop in the winter)

Figure they are going to charge a few thousand more on top of the normal F & J fare, and you can probably expect that this crowd will be top level FF type. They are wanting to go all in or not in at all.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting Jbernie (Reply 31):
Figure they are going to charge a few thousand more on top of the normal F & J fare, and you can probably expect that this crowd will be top level FF type. They are wanting to go all in or not in at all.

Great. How are they going to do it within the curfew hours at each end?
International Homo of Mystery
 
WonderFan
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:15 am

I think if people fly SIN-EWR in 17 hours and some odd minutes, flying an additional two- or three-hour is not too much of a stretch. I think if anything SQ proved that it can be done and that people won't turn into freaks at the end of such a flight. Having said that, I guess the reason why BA and QF haven't pressed the issue of flying the route nonstop over the years is probably because that stop must be convenient for them in many ways beside being necessary. They probably make a hell of a lot more dough through the stops in BKK, SIN or HKG than they would were the flight a direct flight.
 
Rivet42
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydne

Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:20 am

I think this story is complete nonsense. For a start, everyone seems to be forgetting the fact - re-stated on a.net whenever this route gets a new thread, which is quite often! - that the yields (i.e. profits) on this route are very low, due to the number of operators flying connecting services via their home bases, which offer much better logistics than either UK- or Oz-based airlines.

I cannot see how BA could operate such a direct service profitably, given the scheduling restrictions at both ends (which work in favour of QF, but against BA, VS, etc), and the requirement to have 4 or 5 aircraft that are configured specifically for this route, instead of a more general configuration as at present with the B.744's. I just don't see the economics working, and given the small saving in journey time, the product would have to be seriously better than EK, SQ, CX, etc to attract the premium passengers.

Personally, I make this trip almost every year, for a holiday, and I try to break the journey into THREE sectors, of 7-8 hours each, with at least one overnight stop somewhere on the way, to make it more bearable, and to arrive in better shape with less jetlag. I'd never go for a non-stopper, it's just too far. Even in a premium bed, that's a long time to be spent cooped up in a tin can, horizontal or not, without at least a couple of hours break for a good walk and a change of air. No thanks! And I don't even want to think about how messy the cabin would become...  crazy 

Riv'
I travel, therefore I am.
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:25 am

I would think that if margins are tight and an aircraft can do it with one stop, would it not save money to make it one stop? initally you'd have fuel savings as you'd only have to take off and land once but also you'd have airport landing fee's and taxes? or am I completely wrong?
John Hancock
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:36 am

One thing people forget is that the 777, 787, and 747 all have a very real speed advantage over the A340, so a 20 hr flight on a A345 is alot shorter distance wise than a 20hr flight on one of these other planes.
 
aminobwana
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:43 am

People old enough to remember the pre-jet age know that 30-36 hour flights (which very uncomfortable scales) were nothin special. As example: Frankfurt-Madrid-Casablanca-Recife-Rio- S.Paulo-Montevideo-Buenos Aires !!

Fact is, for non-frequent flyers which cannot afford Premium, non-stop flight Sydney-London would not
be attractive, packed 20 hours in economy seats, if there are cheaper flight with scales, even if taking more than 24 hours. What will be less attractive would be flights with aircraft change, which obviously would take even a longer time.

Therefore, non-stop flights should be reserved for Premium pax, with more space and lying down facilities and some lounge.

By the way: bigger size of the aircraft is not a positive, as except for acceeding such lounge, passengers practically do not move outside their cabin section, which is more the same size in any wide body. Larger aircrafts as the A380 or B747 only have more sections and if carrying Y, the disadvantage that at each scale, to deplane and return together with 400-500 pax is anything but not pleasant.

If anything, the lounge itself will probably be more cozy in a smaller aircraft !

Finally, in a F/C, non Y configuration, I assume that the B772LR can make London-Sydney as it is today ! (??)

aminobwana
 
Ansett767
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 5):
No difference in being cooped up for 24 hours with a 90 minute stop than 20 hours non-stop

Oh no way! For me I would much rather break the journey in two if I was travelling Y or Y+. In J I think I could just manage it... but I really would rather have 3 hours more tavel time with a break in between the two flights than a shocker of a 20 hour flight from hell!!!! my word!!! hehe. 14 hours from SFO to SYD was enough for me!!! After the 9 or 10 hour mark I was going insane! lol
 
antskip
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
I can accommodate the idea of an A380 to handle the distance non-stop but no way would I like to fly that long in a 787-

I agree, at least as far as cattle class goes. The A380 is going to be a hugely better aircraft to travel long distances. I have just suffered two 14hr A345 cattle-class flights and can't wait for the new generation - quiet and big.

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 3):
they all like to go EK so they can stretch their legs en route

The legs do get to stretch at DXB transit terminal, but the soul gets little rest there - it is like dropping into (by bus, to boot) a huge shopping mall at peak hour - so stretched that getting back on the plane is like reaching heaven.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 5):
No difference in being cooped up for 24 hours with a 90 minute stop than 20 hours non-stop

No way! Any decent chance for a walk, even in DXB, is better than the torture of cattle class hourglass-watching. Business? An entirely different matter.

Quoting Ek036 (Reply 7):
It should cut off 2.5hours of total traveling time. I think is should appeal to more business traveler's and premium ecconomy.

Spot on! SQ are showing the way - huge distances without a stretch of legs is not a cattle-class delight - maybe the A380 will prove otherwise...

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 37):
People old enough to remember the pre-jet age know that 30-36 hour flights (which very uncomfortable scales) were nothin special.

Flew plenty of those - though the old planes were comparatively slow (i.e. legs took a long time), distances covered in the same time were much less, with much less jet lag - and there was much much more room! Everyone travelled the equivalent of Business then...

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 37):
the lounge itself will probably be more cozy in a smaller aircraft

I used to think that - until I recently suffered cattle-class on 2 14 hour flights on a A345. The B777 is noisier, but the extra room makes a difference, even in cattle - the A380 will be even better - bigger still, and quiet, much quieter...
 
jamesjimlb
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:10 am

QF is getting their 787 very soon, i believe sometime this year or next, and they might be doing the flights, who knows though it's anyones game, i mean, CO could come and suddenly have a hub in AMS and fly AMS- sydney or something, obviously that was just a dramatization, but what i'm trying to say is, anything could happen.
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EK413
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 1):
if it's any airline before QF, you'll see QF copy them as soon as possible

Hmm, I dont see the Australian Government allowing another carrier other than QF to operate the route non-stop first... Another point I would like to make is the fact this was QF plans from the very beginning...

EK413
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sparklehorse12
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:20 am

Quoting Ansett767 (Reply 38):

Oh no way! For me I would much rather break the journey in two if I was travelling Y or Y+. In J I think I could just manage it... but I really would rather have 3 hours more tavel time with a break in between the two flights than a shocker of a 20 hour flight from hell!!!! my word!!! hehe. 14 hours from SFO to SYD was enough for me!!! After the 9 or 10 hour mark I was going insane! lol

Ansett767 - Totally with you...SYD to LAX or SFO is just awful, I am almost scratching my eyes out after 10 hours. Thanks heavens the days of doing that 3 times a year are over!
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
jacobin777
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:43 am

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 37):
People old enough to remember the pre-jet age know that 30-36 hour flights (which very uncomfortable scales) were nothin special. As example: Frankfurt-Madrid-Casablanca-Recife-Rio- S.Paulo-Montevideo-Buenos Aires !!

I recently did SJC-ORD-DUB-BAH-KHI..that was around a 25-30 hour journey... spin .....
"Up the Irons!"
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 2):
What a thrilling idea to stay put in a 787 tube for 20 hours non-stop....
I can accommodate the idea of an A380 to handle the distance non-stop but no way would I like to fly that long in a 787-It's a pure matter of space and perception of space-I admit and has nothing to do with the technical feasibility's of any 787 to make the distance...

I'd rather do it in a 787 than a A380! 787 has higher cabin pressure (ie lower cabin altitude) this means that you won't get as dehydrated, your sinuses will like you better and it will be much more pleasant... the 787 is not that small its almost 777 in size after all and with 2-4-2 seating much better than an A380 3-4-3!

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 3):
I cannot imagine the smell after the flight arrives with 20 hours cooped up and the loos closed due to a malfunction!! How much food will they need and also water?? there will not be many takers from my clients as they all like to go EK so they can stretch thier legs en route.
No go for me I am afraid.

The smell? air gets replaced into an aircraft every 3 minutes. Sure it circulates around but it does all get replaced it doesn't just get trapped in there... the only difference between a 12 hour flight and a 20 hour flight is that people may start to get a bit sweaty with BO after 20 hours... (but since 99% of people don't do anything to wash while in transit ie shower in the business lounges etc) there is actually no difference and in fact its probably worse as the total flight becomes 24 hours due to the transit. Airlines offering non-stop LHR-SYD would also probably not offer the standard seating arrangements due to it being such a long flight (think SQ SIN-NY they have increased legroom and less pax). I don't think the toilets are going to be a problem with less pax onboard and the toilets do get cleaned regularly inflight on most airlines. Less pax onboard also due to the need to store more meal carts and beverage carts. A 20hour service would normally be operated by 2 sets of crew or at least a larger crew with the other crew getting rest. There would be 3 meal services which isn't that bad really considering a 763 with normal config can manage 2 full services and a 787 or A350 will have more storage space.
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brucek
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:17 am

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 24):
I can't imagine doing it straight. I can't stand much over 8 hours let alone 20!

I'm probably the exception, but I love the landing / takeoff phases of flight (must be that private pilot's license that I have  Smile ). I fly regularly LAX/SFO-AKL/SYD on NZ or QF/UA respectively. I used to love the days of the B742's where a tech stop was required in HNL.

I guess I have never seen the merits of getting as quick as possible over such vast distances. By the time you get there you're jet-lagged (regardless of whether you get to sleep on the flight or not), and so useless for business, etc. And think of the added flexibility for the airline if you can do LAX/SFO-HNL-SYD/AKL.

I do economics for a living and often wonder: With the race to bring longer range to aircraft and more efficient flight, one day a manufacturer will produce something that will do LHR-CHC-LHR, and also one day someone will hit some theorectical minima of applied physics regarding fuel efficiency. Where will the industry go after that I wonder?

Bruce.
 
Philadelphia1
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:22 am

What about Qantas focusing their energy on AUSTRALIA - USA meaning DFW, ORD and JFK from SYD or BNE with the 787

As for BA wanting the LHR-SYD. Good luck. Even if Boeing or Airbus come out with something, it would have to be alot faster than 20 hours. Nobody enjoys 20 hours on a plane, unless your an aviation guru, which most air passengers are not.

BA, VS, QF are all contenders, maybe even DJ. But I've dont that flight twice and I have to say a stop between London and Sydney (my second time was to Melbourne) is a nice rest. to get up, walk around the waiting area, even get some fresh air (thru open window at the terminal at the time), then hop back on and continue on.
 
Rivet42
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 44):

Well, as you've pointed out, the measures that would make such a flight bearable result in fewer passengers, which means that the fares would have to be increased significantly to produce a decent yield. However, there are at least 10 airlines competing agressively for premium passengers on this route, so whoever decides to offer the direct service is going to have a rough ride trying to maintain market share. That's a big risk. BA is more likely to pull out of the route altogether, as has been mentioned previously, so that leaves QF and VS (it's extremely unlikely anyone else will be allowed to enter this market). Regardless of what this article claims, I just don't see the yield potential for either QF or VS to undertake such a risky venture, and it's a very small market for either Airbus or Boeing to develop an aircraft specifically aimed at this kind of route. A dozen frames at most? Who would bother...?

Riv'
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sparklehorse12
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting Brucek (Reply 45):
I'm probably the exception, but I love the landing / takeoff phases of flight (must be that private pilot's license that I have Smile ). I fly regularly LAX/SFO-AKL/SYD on NZ or QF/UA respectively. I used to love the days of the B742's where a tech stop was required in HNL.

Yeah! Bring back the stop in HNL!!!! I too love take off and landing, particularly on a 777 - the sound of the engines winding up for take off is exciting(ok, I know I am nerd) The sound of the engines idling while going to the gate is just rockin'

I have flown the 743 across the pacific and I remember the days you stopped in HNL to drop off pax, I think there should be a mandatory stop on the SYD to LAX/SFO route.
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
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RayChuang
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RE: BA Looking To Fly Nonstop From London To Sydney

Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:01 pm

I think LHR to SYD non-stop eastbound is possible using a modified 777-200LR with only premium seating (e.g. no more than circa 215 passengers) and extra fuel tanks installed. Boeing could easily build about eight such 772LR's that BA will need to fly this route non-stop. Doing this with the 787-9 is more tricky, since this means seating no more than 185 passengers and probably putting in more fuel tanks, something that could be tricky to do on a 787.

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