sparklehorse12
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QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:23 am

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AFGMEL
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:41 am

Hmm, sounds reasonable. Whenever I see the word "restructuring" I immediately think of redundancies. I could be an old cynic though.
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sparklehorse12
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting AFGMEL (Reply 1):
Whenever I see the word "restructuring" I immediately think of redundancies. I could be an old cynic though.

Well, that is a fair assessment of 'restructuring' in particular when G. Dixon is involved. I don't think you are being an 'old cynic'...the mid 90's largess of corporate Australia is still haunting us with 'restructing' being the plug to pull when extenuating circumstances mean the bottom line is under threat...screw the workers, get rid of em, makes Management look good Wink
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:01 am

Its just shuffling paper is all. Waste of time and money and unnecessarily duplicates management as inevitably happens with these sorts of things. Air New Zealand did the same thing back in the 90's and has since remerged them all back in and ended up laying off about 1000 staff (mostly in headoffice) in the process.
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:55 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 3):
Its just shuffling paper is all.

Also makes it easier to sell it to "investors" and not have to go through those pesky shareholders ... you'd just sell a proportion of each bit at a time.
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
qantas787
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:53 pm

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 2):
.the mid 90's largess of corporate Australia

More the mid 80's I would think.
G'day
 
jetfuel
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:30 pm

As a shareholder I say  Smile
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
OzTech
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:09 pm

Unfortunately, no matter how many ways they split Qantas up... It will still will just be Qantas... Always playing catch up to the real players in the aviation game like EK, SQ, EY and others too many to mention..
I know that Emirates etc have easier access to money, infrastructure blah blah blah.. Yep, we have heard all the bleeting before from the true blue blindfolded QF employees (I was one for over 10 years) but it is time to face facts.. The QF product is so dated it would not look out of place in the 707 in Longreach.. The hype on commercial TV regarding the sub standard maintenance.. What a load of rubbish stirred up by the ALAEA who are still trying to hold onto their ever decreasing number of members.. All airlines have problems in all departments.. but unfortunately for QF some of the dinosaurs who could not find a job in Burger King are only too happy to leak this s**t to the ever hungry "don't let the facts get in the way of a good story" Aussie (ill informed and uneducated in anything aviation) press.
It is time for QF to step up to the plate.. Dump the engineering dept.. delete the present board.. Get a new 1st and Business product and plan to change it every 3-5 years to keep up with the real "new world carriers"
Aussie pride and all that nostalgic crap will not save the Roo...
Cleaning out the deadwood and dragging the fleet into line with the others will help but I still think the Roo is doomed..
No defect too big, no defect too small, nothing in the log --- No defect at all !!
 
jetfuel
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:30 pm

Quoting Oztech (Reply 7):
Cleaning out the deadwood and dragging the fleet into line with the others will help but I still think the Roo is doomed..

I agree about the freeloaders, esp in Management areas but doomed - come on?

QF is one of the most profitable airlines in the world.
QF has an infrastructure monopoly that any serious contender would take forever to break

AND you live in my hometown? Are you sure you dont commute to Brisbane and work for an airline with red planes
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
Ken777
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:07 am

Quoting Oztech (Reply 7):
Cleaning out the deadwood and dragging the fleet into line with the others will help but I still think the Roo is doomed..

The only problems I have had with QF have been with some rather ignorant mid-management folks. All 3 times (I'm lucky it's only 3) their actions have left me shaking my head and figuring that they must be left overs from the days QF was government owned.
 
OzTech
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:40 pm

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 8):
I agree about the freeloaders, esp in Management areas but doomed - come on?

Domed might have been a bit over dramatic I agree but you have to agree that all the major players are jumping ahead in leaps and bounds when it comes to passengers service, amenities both on board and on the ground and choosing new routes and times that all attract new passengers. 10/15 years ago would the average Aussie think about flying via Dubai or Brunei to get to Europe.. and as for those god awful adds QF keep coming up with.. Please... give us a break and treat us with some respect.. We are not stupid and can see right through the crap the Saatchi & Saatchi spin doctors come up with..
I agree that QF is a very profitable airline but what do they do with it.. You would think that with all the cash reserves they have they would be pioneering new routes and products all over the world to try to counteract the other players.. Alas no.. they just pay millions to air the "I still call Australia home" add all over the world again.
They need a lot of new blood in management.. some young guns with balls to take a gamble on making QF the airline that it can and should be.... Give the others a run for their money...
No defect too big, no defect too small, nothing in the log --- No defect at all !!
 
jetfuel
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting OzTech (Reply 10):
They need a lot of new blood in management.. some young guns with balls to take a gamble on making QF the airline that it can and should be

I agree. And the JQ thing is a bit of a joke. But I remember back to the dispute of 1989 ( I was in Oshkosh at the airshow with a group of pilots at the time) and the unions did cripple the industry. I know QF is really trying hard to get labour costs down and management would be a great place to start.

Wouldn't it be great to see Australia to London via more than just 2 stopover points? Wouldn't it be great to see more destinations in the USA?

One of my biggest beefs is the age of the fleet, compared to what it used to be like. QF used to retire planes when they still had life left in them - now they just run them into the ground.

I see some very short sighted decisions by QF along with a few good moves, but it is still an old boys club at the top.

I would love to rehash the livery to something fresh yet traditional. I'd love to refocus advertsing. I would love to get rid of Jetstar all together............
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
sparklehorse12
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:27 am

QF can do all the things they need to but they don't because they are such penny pinchers. They are going to alienate pax if they don't get it together. Carriers like EY,SQ and EK are only going to get further advanced than QF and they are all increasing their frequencies into Australia as they can see QF is vunerable(my theory) A strong QF is not based on profit alone it is based on product strength or finding a balance between the two.

I find it sad that a once great carrier has been run into the ground by Dixon, if they want to cut costs, cut em' at the top! They could start by not paying John Laws 100,000 to spruik for them! Or John Travolta - what has he done for them?
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
CupraIbiza
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:51 pm

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 6):
As a shareholder I say

followed by

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 11):
I would love to get rid of Jetstar all together............

You must be joking right. this is where all the growth in revenues is coming from. I am sure I read that Jetstar made $100 million profit. Surely as a shareholder you would say that Jetstar is a roaring success.
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
jetfuel
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:44 pm

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 13):
You must be joking right. this is where all the growth in revenues is coming from. I am sure I read that Jetstar made $100 million profit. Surely as a shareholder you would say that Jetstar is a roaring success

Maybe so. But it's a shame that the same result couldn't be achieved by Qantas.
Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
 
sparklehorse12
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Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:19 pm

RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:47 pm

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 13):
Surely as a shareholder you would say that Jetstar is a roaring success.

That is the on going debate, is JQ actually sucessful? If you believe they are, how is it measured? I don't believe they are successful. For reasons outlined in other threads.....
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
baroque
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:47 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 3):
Its just shuffling paper is all.

Don't forget to buy shares in companies making letterheads!

Quoting Oztech (Reply 7):
It is time for QF to step up to the plate.. Dump the engineering dept.. delete the present board.. Get a new 1st and Business product and plan to change it every 3-5 years to keep up with the real "new world carriers"

I am with Jet a bit there. Delete the board and then get the new one to look at engineering. It is arguable that whatever good reputation has is from its previous maintenance history. I get the nasty feeling that current management will push this (has pushed it) to the point where it breaks - missing the point that just one catastrophe is too many.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 12):
They could start by not paying John Laws 100,000 to spruik for them!

 checkmark  Top of the class and a koala stamp there!  Smile Travolta might just have some useful purpose, although don't ask me what it is, but Laws, shudder.

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 13):

You must be joking right. this is where all the growth in revenues is coming from. I am sure I read that Jetstar made $100 million profit. Surely as a shareholder you would say that Jetstar is a roaring success.

Probably, although I do find it hard to know. I would also like to know how the costs of the A32xs come in against the 737s. Favourably one has to suspect?
 
CupraIbiza
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:11 am

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 15):
is JQ actually sucessful? If you believe they are, how is it measured? I

Wouldn't profit be the best way to measure?

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 14):
Maybe so. But it's a shame that the same result couldn't be achieved by Qantas.

I dont get this. Do you think Qantas management wouldn't make bigger profits if they could.
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
sparklehorse12
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 17):

Wouldn't profit be the best way to measure?

Yes, I guess that is the obvious however, I think an independant assessment of JQ's success is difficult because many of it's routes were handed over by QF i.e getting a slightly captive market by default.(my opinion)
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
CupraIbiza
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 18):
were handed over by QF i.e getting a slightly captive market by default.(my opinion)

Oh totally agree. JQ can never ever be compared to a new entrant. Its apples and bowling balls.
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
QantasHeavy
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:42 am

Even the 5-Star airlines such as Cathay and Singapore are really slipping in terms of service into Oz. Old tired interiors. SQ is down-right poor except the 744s (1 to MEL a few to SYD)... and they are nothing new inside.

I have started flying Thai a lot. New 777s with nice interiors, wide screen AVOD in business and a nose/belly camera on the IFE a la EK. Also, Thai business class ticket is 30-50% less than QF to most of Asia.

I think when the 787s arrive the domestic product caliber will go up. The QF 744s and 333s are still much better than the average long-haul flights in/out of Oz.

Would have been nice to have some fresh 332s or 777s for the medium hauls and domestic major routes... but we'll live with the antique fleet on 743s and high-cycle 763s for a few more years!
 
jbernie
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:29 am

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 11):
Wouldn't it be great to see Australia to London via more than just 2 stopover points? Wouldn't it be great to see more destinations in the USA?

If you can drag Australia say 500 miles north east and closer to the US then you might be in luck, otherwise it is SFO or LAX unless you want a stop over in Hawaii. QF has to feed into the AA system as they are partners, QF has stated a few times the desire to be able to fly into DFW so they can arrive at a major AA hub which would be great for flying onto the east coast. I don't disagree with you, they are just too limited distance wise with the current aircraft.

As to the London stop overs, that may be restricted by the # of people flying to a destination and having it as the final stopover as opposed to those who may stop over and then rejoin a later flight to continue on. I'm sure they have some fun complex way of figuring it out. But a little more creativity might be nice.

It is interesting how geographic location plays into the Kangaroo route. QF & BA (& other euro airlines) can go for non stop flights as their bases are at either end, SQ, EK and the like have home base in the middle so they would prefer the stopover so they don't need as much at each end. QF & BA can stop over pretty much anywhere in the middle they desire/are allowed to, as it is just a fuel stop for them. SQ, EK and the other Asian airlines will prefer flying through home base, and have the other Asian destinations as a different flight.
 
QantasHeavy
Posts: 277
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:20 pm

In terms of the SYD-LHR or SYD-JFK flying... as much as the non-stop capability may be desired I'm not sure how great it would be as a passenger.

I have done the JFK-HKG and LAX-MEL a lot and it is gruelling. I go for work and am always in business or first, and it is still a physical drain (and I think Cathay and Qantas are as comfortable in first/business as any other carrier).

The effects on the body on a 22-hour flight must be harsh. Of course, perhaps up and down twice over 24 hours might be worse... any doctors in the house?

If you drink lots of water, take lorazipam (from your doctor) and chew Jet Ease/No Jet lag tablets (magic pills from NZ... I criss-cross the globe and never get jet lagged thanks to that stuff!) and move around on the plane that helps... but the 777 and maybe the 345/6 seem to be able to have bathrooms that stay fresh after 12 hours.

Dry cabin air, especially on the 777, for almost a day msut be bad for your sinuses and ear/nose throat membranes.

Can the 77L make SYD-DFW both directions relaibly or would winds make it payload restricted westbound? QF should absolutely go into DFW. They keep flirting with the idea but never do. I bet DFW would make them a sweet deal to get another foreign flag carrier into the new terminal. Flying QF/AA to NYC via LAX is OK in terms of the timing... but LAX is a real hassle. Why can't they screen passengers in transit separately instead of putting everyone nack into the outside lines to come back into the same concourse? Customs/immigration and security at DFW is a breeze. Big Texans with big guns so you feel safe but they don't like lines so you scoot through. If you are going anywhere other than California or New York, Qantas connections via LA are a hassle... as you ARE going through DFW anyway. WIll the 787 make it nonstop?
 
airnewzealand
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2000 6:00 pm

RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:49 pm

Quoting Oztech (Reply 7):
Unfortunately, no matter how many ways they split Qantas up... It will still will just be Qantas... Always playing catch up to the real players in the aviation game like EK, SQ, EY and others too many to mention..
I know that Emirates etc have easier access to money, infrastructure blah blah blah.. Yep, we have heard all the bleeting before from the true blue blindfolded QF employees (I was one for over 10 years) but it is time to face facts.. The QF product is so dated it would not look out of place in the 707 in Longreach.. The hype on commercial TV regarding the sub standard maintenance.. What a load of rubbish stirred up by the ALAEA who are still trying to hold onto their ever decreasing number of members.. All airlines have problems in all departments.. but unfortunately for QF some of the dinosaurs who could not find a job in Burger King are only too happy to leak this s**t to the ever hungry "don't let the facts get in the way of a good story" Aussie (ill informed and uneducated in anything aviation) press.
It is time for QF to step up to the plate.. Dump the engineering dept.. delete the present board.. Get a new 1st and Business product and plan to change it every 3-5 years to keep up with the real "new world carriers"
Aussie pride and all that nostalgic crap will not save the Roo...
Cleaning out the deadwood and dragging the fleet into line with the others will help but I still think the Roo is doomed..

Hey Oztech,

I really appreciate your bold opinions, and quite rightly so i must say.
I agree to a certain extent, but to state that Qantas product is out dated is a far cry. The thing which is good with Qantas is they have a consistent product (in regards to seats) where as many of the carriers you have mentioned donot, and will not have the same First/business product onboard.
EK for instance has 3 different First and Business cabins. Which one are you going to get??
EY also has 2 different first and business cabins.

The only one i can say is truly a fantastic carrier and leaves Qantas for dust is SQ!!

Quoting OzTech (Reply 10):
Domed might have been a bit over dramatic I agree but you have to agree that all the major players are jumping ahead in leaps and bounds when it comes to passengers service, amenities both on board and on the ground and choosing new routes and times that all attract new passengers. 10/15 years ago would the average Aussie think about flying via Dubai or Brunei to get to Europe.. and as for those god awful adds QF keep coming up with.. Please... give us a break and treat us with some respect.. We are not stupid and can see right through the crap the Saatchi & Saatchi spin doctors come up with..
I agree that QF is a very profitable airline but what do they do with it.. You would think that with all the cash reserves they have they would be pioneering new routes and products all over the world to try to counteract the other players.. Alas no.. they just pay millions to air the "I still call Australia home" add all over the world again.
They need a lot of new blood in management.. some young guns with balls to take a gamble on making QF the airline that it can and should be.... Give the others a run for their money...

Again, I agree...With all the money we make, where does it go?? 1.2 billion is tipped for this year... makes you wonder.

Qantas has stated that they will be followers not leaders (is this a wise decision in this day and age?? Who knows, some argue yes, others no).

Qantas can be an amazing carrier, and to be honest i still believe, the worst thing about Qantas is inconsistent crews. You can get on and have a brilliant flight...one that rivals SQ, TG, CX, EK... and then the next flight you will have the worst one of your life.

Recently attending our "crew days...future outlook of Qantas and where are we going..." John Borghetti stated Dallas is the next destination, and they are just waiting for aircraft...He also said it would of started by now if the A380 was not delayed. Qantas wants to go double daily into FRA... to be announced next year. Two more european destinations to start. And upgrading BJS and PVG as loads are doing well. Once again, this is where Qantas have lost their vision...not buying new aircrafts and expanding its fleet.

Our managers do make it out to be all roses, and state customer satisfaction is at an all time high (hard to believe with the IFE...and constent catering issues) as an individual...it is your decision to believe it or not.

Cheers.
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 3954
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:29 am

Quoting Airnewzealand (Reply 23):
Again, I agree...With all the money we make, where does it go?? 1.2 billion is tipped for this year... makes you wonder.

How do you think they are financing the new aircraft? Profit helps there. How do you think they are financing the new product? How was JQ financed?

It's not like it's all being pissed into the wind.

Quoting Airnewzealand (Reply 23):
Qantas has stated that they will be followers not leaders (is this a wise decision in this day and age?? Who knows, some argue yes, others no).

Do you have a link showing this so called "statement" ?

Quoting Airnewzealand (Reply 23):
Two more european destinations to start.

I'm betting on ATH and FCO with JQ. Or were they explicitly stating two new european destinations for QF? If this is the case, it will be Paris and...?

Quoting Airnewzealand (Reply 23):
Once again, this is where Qantas have lost their vision...not buying new aircrafts and expanding its fleet.

When you consider the effects of things like SARS, the Tsunami, 9/11 - it's not surprising aircraft weren't ordered for international, or do you know something I don't?

Quoting Airnewzealand (Reply 23):
and state customer satisfaction is at an all time high (hard to believe with the IFE...and constent catering issues)

I've heard the latest patch has solved the majority of the AVOD issues. You're working the front line, has there been a decrease in incidents, no change, the same?

Catering issues?

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 15):
That is the on going debate, is JQ actually sucessful? If you believe they are, how is it measured? I don't believe they are successful. For reasons outlined in other threads.....

I think the reported 100m to the bottom line that is going to be announced in a couple of weeks is an easy way to measure the success.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 12):
I find it sad that a once great carrier has been run into the ground by Dixon

I find it sad that you diss Qantas at every turn. They have flat seats in F, J beds (soon to be flat beds), W class on the way, AVOD across the international fleet, and a huge investment in new aircraft happening. New routes will be opened, probably from late 2008 I would imagine, and moreso from 2009. Lots of A380s and 787s on the way.

I hardly see how the airline has been "run into the ground". Do you actually fly other carriers at all? It sounds like tall poppy syndrome from where I'm sitting.

Quoting Jetfuel (Reply 11):
Wouldn't it be great to see Australia to London via more than just 2 stopover points?

Two? BKK, SIN and HKG equals two?
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
sparklehorse12
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:19 pm

RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:57 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 24):
I find it sad that you diss Qantas at every turn. They have flat seats in F, J beds (soon to be flat beds), W class on the way, AVOD across the international fleet, and a huge investment in new aircraft happening. New routes will be opened, probably from late 2008 I would imagine, and moreso from 2009. Lots of A380s and 787s on the way.

I hardly see how the airline has been "run into the ground". Do you actually fly other carriers at all? It sounds like tall poppy syndrome from where I'm sitting.

I find your critique of my statements amazing...an Irishman give me some ' food for thought' about a national carrier of the country I actually live and used to fly with exclusively for several years for business( our company only changed it's policy to flying DJ first option 6 months ago).

Yes, I do fly other carriers, let me see........ in the last month I have flown SQ,PG,DD,DJ,QF,JQ... Tall Poppy nothing, it's called QF bastardry.........
Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:53 pm

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 25):
I find your critique of my statements amazing...an Irishman give me some ' food for thought' about a national carrier of the country I actually live and used to fly with exclusively for several years for business( our company only changed it's policy to flying DJ first option 6 months ago).

Nice come back. Good to see you addressed my points.  Yeah sure

For the record, I'm from Sydney - have lived in Dublin for 2 years - if you'd checked my profile, you would have noticed this. Therefore, as an Australian, I'm well qualified to question your comments.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 25):
in the last month I have flown SQ,PG,DD,DJ,QF,JQ

That's good to know, I'm relieved that you have some other flying experience.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 25):
Tall Poppy nothing, it's called QF bastardry

When you can back your comments up with facts or comparisons, I'll start taking your word for it. Until then, it seems.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
sparklehorse12
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:19 pm

RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 26):
Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 25):
I find your critique of my statements amazing...an Irishman give me some ' food for thought' about a national carrier of the country I actually live and used to fly with exclusively for several years for business( our company only changed it's policy to flying DJ first option 6 months ago).

Nice come back. Good to see you addressed my points. Yeah sure

For the record, I'm from Sydney - have lived in Dublin for 2 years - if you'd checked my profile, you would have noticed this. Therefore, as an Australian, I'm well qualified to question your comments.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 25):
in the last month I have flown SQ,PG,DD,DJ,QF,JQ

That's good to know, I'm relieved that you have some other flying experience.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 25):
Tall Poppy nothing, it's called QF bastardry

When you can back your comments up with facts or comparisons, I'll start taking your word for it. Until then, it seems.

....I could go into the reasons why I have stated what I have stated but I think it is clear and infact, if you REALLY cared to know why I have stated what I have stated you might like to read some other posts  Wink On the issue of you being Australian living in Ireland, how dare I not read your profile! How stupid of me, you know I should be ashamed of myself.

The oldest diversion trick in the book is the selective - "back up your arguments" so you have to re-iterate it to people who have selective reading skills, when they don't like what they read about companies they cheerlead for....
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Gemuser
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:23 am

Sparklehorse, I have to agree with ClassicLover, you do seem unusually "down" on QF. I really don't think you can expect to get away, without backup, with a statement like "I find it sad that a once great carrier has been run into the ground by Dixon" without being called on it. "Being run into the ground"? With MORE than $A15 billion worth of aircraft on order!

Yes there have been other changes, some very unpleasant for the people involved, some arguably unnecessary and some arguably in the wrong direction, but all ARE reasonable business decisions. If they are correct business decisions remains to be seen.

God knows you are entitled to your opinion, but the continual grinding down, without much, if any, factual backup does become tiresome after awhile.

Are you sure your not/related to Simplicity?  Smile

Gemuser
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sparklehorse12
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 28):
Sparklehorse, I have to agree with ClassicLover, you do seem unusually "down" on QF. I really don't think you can expect to get away, without backup, with a statement like "I find it sad that a once great carrier has been run into the ground by Dixon" without being called on it. "Being run into the ground"? With MORE than $A15 billion worth of aircraft on order!

Yes there have been other changes, some very unpleasant for the people involved, some arguably unnecessary and some arguably in the wrong direction, but all ARE reasonable business decisions. If they are correct business decisions remains to be seen.

God knows you are entitled to your opinion, but the continual grinding down, without much, if any, factual backup does become tiresome after awhile.

Are you sure your not/related to Simplicity? Smile

Gemuser

Gemuser - Firstly,Issues are rearing their ugly head time and time again, I will note maintenance for starters..how many examples do you need? These issues were very few and far between years ago and they are becoming more common. QF used to be up there with the best of the best now all you have to do is look at the recent choice survey, it's ranking, the service on board etc etc....what else do I need to mention? If you are finding my grinding of QF tiresome I would urge you not to read my posts.. if you are not aware of the current issues at QF you are obviously blinded by your loyalty to them.
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Gemuser
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:35 pm

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 29):
I will note maintenance for starters..how many examples do you need? These issues were very few and far between years ago and they are becoming more common.

Once again, prove it! In April after this very issue was raised by someone else I checked the ATSB web site. In the two years ending 31 March 07 QF had a total 10 reportable incidents for their B744/ER fleet. An average of 1.5 per aircraft per year. The facts do not support your assertion. What has happened is that the media is blowing things up even more.

In fact there are things about the new maintenance arrangements that seem odd & of concern, with both QF group & DJ, not one of which has been reported by the main stream media. Again I am not a QF fan, rather a QF watcher and have been longer than you have been alive. Criticise them all you like, but with facts please, not emotions.

Gemuser
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AA7295
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:12 pm

I guess with Qantas, you either love them or hate them. I personally despise them. Remember that before DJ, Ansett and QF were happy to charge $500 for a return flight BNE-SYD. That's probably my gripe about them.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 12):
QF can do all the things they need to but they don't because they are such penny pinchers. They are going to alienate pax if they don't get it together. Carriers like EY,SQ and EK are only going to get further advanced than QF and they are all increasing their frequencies into Australia as they can see QF is vunerable(my theory) A strong QF is not based on profit alone it is based on product strength or finding a balance between the two.

I think this is true and also QF focuses heavily in SYD and expects the rest of Australia to fly to SYD if they want to go anywhere, when in fact the rest of Australia can't stand doing this and choses to fly foreign carriers. Take BNE for example. QF flies once daily to SIN whereas SQ flies twice daily.

Regards,
AA7295
 
sparklehorse12
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:08 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 30):
gain I am not a QF fan, rather a QF watcher and have been longer than you have been alive. Criticise them all you like, but with facts please, not emotions.

Gemuser

Gemuser - It's all a media beat up is it? There are no issues with QF are there? QF are one of the best airlines in the world, are they? The choice survey all fiction? The rag in the engine incident, the work of fiction, the engine shut down incident all the work of fiction....it goes on and on but it's all the work of Steven Spielberg, right? I am accused of being emotional....? Let me remind you Gemuser, I have a great amount of admiration for elderly wisdom but I'm sorry, I think QF watcher or not you have to admit QF has some big issues and it continues to have so.......

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 31):
I think this is true and also QF focuses heavily in SYD and expects the rest of Australia to fly to SYD if they want to go anywhere, when in fact the rest of Australia can't stand doing this and choses to fly foreign carriers. Take BNE for example. QF flies once daily to SIN whereas SQ flies twice daily.

I live in Brisbane for the moment and I am frustrated by the QF schedule, this is why I fly SQ internationally. Be damed if I want to fly backward down to Sydney for a stop before I head to Asia, I would prefer to stop in SIN...then go onward rather than backward to Sydney then direct....
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AA7295
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:12 pm

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 32):
I live in Brisbane for the moment and I am frustrated by the QF schedule, this is why I fly SQ internationally. Be damed if I want to fly backward down to Sydney for a stop before I head to Asia, I would prefer to stop in SIN...then go onward rather than backward to Sydney then direct....

OMG... you are so right. This is why I don't understand why QF does this. Yes SYD has a bigger market... BUT THERE ARE STILL OTHER MARKETS OUT THERE. The only thing I hate about BNE is that lack of 744. It's my favourite jet.

Regards,
AA7295
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:13 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 30):
In the two years ending 31 March 07 QF had a total 10 reportable incidents for their B744/ER fleet.

Thanks for putting some actual facts into the thread.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 30):
In fact there are things about the new maintenance arrangements that seem odd & of concern, with both QF group & DJ, not one of which has been reported by the main stream media.

I'd like to hear about this if at all possible?

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 31):
I guess with Qantas, you either love them or hate them. I personally despise them. Remember that before DJ, Ansett and QF were happy to charge $500 for a return flight BNE-SYD. That's probably my gripe about them.

I guess you hated Ansett also?

Still, DJ has been around for well over 5 years now - long time to hold a grudge.

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 31):
Take BNE for example. QF flies once daily to SIN whereas SQ flies twice daily

I think you'll find that QF has its assets deployed for maximum profit at the moment, which is sensible business sense. You will also probably find that things will change once the new aircraft come online. Qantas could, in theory, fly from any point to any point and there would be passengers (ATH, FCO, EZE, MAN, etc etc) but it's all about making money and not losing money.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 32):
The choice survey all fiction?

Was this in relation to QF or JQ? I remember seeing JQ refute the claims in a press release on their web site, where it was stated that the survey had been done many months before, and the survey group was extremely small in comparison with the amount of pax carried daily. Never heard anything about QF.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 32):
The rag in the engine incident, the work of fiction, the engine shut down incident all the work of fiction....

No-one was saying these were fiction, they're your words. With a group fleet of over 200 aircraft, an engine shutdown or someone accidentally leaving a rag in the APU is hardly indicative of an airline in trouble.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 32):
I live in Brisbane for the moment and I am frustrated by the QF schedule, this is why I fly SQ internationally.

So if they had more BNE frequencies to SIN, you'd use them? That's good.
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QantasHeavy
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:15 pm

I think it is natural for natives to not like their local carriers.

Most Americans who have flown QF will tell you Qantas is the best airline in the world. I know Britts who fly AA to the US because they hate BA, and Americans who always fly BA to the UK because they despise BA.

I am American and a permanent Australian resident and have to travel all over, all the time. I think, as many have said above, that it all depends on your experience on the day. I have had great experiences on American Airlines, United, Delta, etc (and bad ones too, but when you fly 150+ segments per year that is going to happen) and have had plenty of less than impressive flights on SQ and CX (and many superb ones).

I have to admit, when I have my gripes about Qantas it is just venting about the local power house carrier. On the whole, they are very good compared to most airlines I have flown.

If the crew is polite, the cabin is clean, the IFE works, the food is OK, and the plane sticks to it schedule... then it is hard to complain. If a problem arises, weather/mechanical, etc. and the carrier does what it can but the delay is related to passenger safety... then I think you have to be reasonable before getting too angry.
 
sparklehorse12
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:19 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 34):
So if they had more BNE frequencies to SIN, you'd use them? That's good.

Yes, I actually would. The choice survey was about QF...
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Gemuser
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:33 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 34):
Quoting Gemuser (Reply 30):
In fact there are things about the new maintenance arrangements that seem odd & of concern, with both QF group & DJ, not one of which has been reported by the main stream media.

I'd like to hear about this if at all possible?

Mainly related to outsourcing, of course! No specific comments to be made, sorry.

Gemuser
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AA7295
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:07 pm

Quoting QantasHeavy (Reply 35):
I think it is natural for natives to not like their local carriers.

Not really. DJ is based in BNE and I absolutely adore them. When I book a domestic flight, 9 times out of 10 it will be with them.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 36):
Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 34):
So if they had more BNE frequencies to SIN, you'd use them? That's good.

Yes, I actually would. The choice survey was about QF...

No, because there are other place I'd like to go, like BKK, HNL, Phuket, Bali that QF doesn't fly from BNE, so I'm forced to use foreign carriers.

JQ is in a similar situation and has followed in QF footsteps and offered holiday destinations to the two largest Australian markets; SYD & MEL.

For Qantas Group to remain profitable, they need to realise that the rest of Australia is tired of flying to SYD and in some instances MEL to go overseas when foreign carriers are offering direct flight from other markets such as BNE, ADL, CNS, and PER. I know that QF may not have the planes to do this now, but did they honestly think that Australians would continue to do this. So that's why I avoid QF, because there is nothing like coming home from a business trip or holiday, going through the long dreaded lines at Sydney customs, then hiking to the domestic terminal and jumping on another plane to BNE, when I can do it direct to BNE with SQ. The only QF route I fly is QF175, but I use the AA7295 codeshare so AA gets the dosh and I get my AAdvantage points. (Yes I know I can still earn AA points flying on the QF175 designator.)


Regards,
AA7295
 
sparklehorse12
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:13 pm

I am pleased someone can finally understand the frustration and why I am critical of QF, infact, I am just plain dissapointed that a great Australian company has turned into a very ordinary(at best) airline. Our company used to fly exclusively with QF then changed to a 'DJ first option' policy based on price and availibility.

We used to fly QF internationally until recently a new travel policy was released which is now 'SQ first' based on price, availibility and forward destinations. It is frustrating to fly to SYD first and then though customs at SYD to only have to get on a plane and go to BNE. Now we fly SQ first, I doubt we would go back to QF even if their schedule changed for the better (even though I think we should because I do prefer to support Australians) but, why would we? The food is superior, I have dietry requirements, SQ never miss where as with QF I felt bad each time the 'trolly dolly' grumbled at you for wanting ......service....and.....a special diety requirement. SQ, in my opinion make you feel much more welcome and comfortable. The food is far superior and no, what we call "QF-tude" from the 'trolly dolly sandwich chuckers'.

I too go for holidays to HKT and USM, SGN,KUL and want to fly direct..........I will continute to fly SQ for leisure and I think it is sad that I notice more and more people flying Asian carriers over QF. In the end, QF are now back with the rest of the pack rather than ahead of it.
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AA7295
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:51 pm

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 39):
even though I think we should because I do prefer to support Australians

Qantas Group is like 46% foreign owned, IIRC, I know the figure is in the 40 percentile. So it's probably better that your work flies with DJ because they are wholly owned Toll Holdings which is Australian-owned.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 39):
I notice more and more people flying Asian carriers

Just wait till more American carriers start flying to Australia. I know they'll be getting my money. I only wish the AA didn't codeshare with QF and operated mainline flights here. But it is beneficial for AA to codeshare.

Regards,
AA7295
 
qantas787
Posts: 216
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:19 pm

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 39):
I too go for holidays to HKT and USM, SGN,KUL and want to fly direct..........I will continute to fly SQ for leisure and I think it is sad that I notice more and more people flying Asian carriers over QF. In the end, QF are now back with the rest of the pack rather than ahead of it.

I guess when SQ start flying non stop to PPP, MCY, HTI and other secondary towns of Australia then you can reasonably demand that QF fly non stop to every little tinpot Asian beach that you want to fly to for your holidays. Seriously, under what premise do you expect Qantas to fly from BNE to so many varied places in Asia that will satisfy you? How many would be enough for you? I am not a great fan of some of the recent decisions of Qantas management either, but I think you are really just getting carried away.
G'day
 
TBCITDG
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:28 pm

If there is any criticism around here about QF why do the same QF loves always come up in their defence?
Why not take in positive criticism and try to view things from other peoples views?
 
AA7295
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:29 pm

Quoting Qantas787 (Reply 41):
under what premise do you expect Qantas to fly from BNE to so many varied places in Asia

How bout to BKK. QF operates flights from BKK-LHR, maybe we would like a stop over in BKK, we cannot do that because both QF & JQ do not fly there. We have to go to SYD. HNL anyone?

What about PVG and PEK, with the immense Chinese population in Brisbane, how come no direct flights? SYD & MEL have at least one? We are not sayint that QF has to fly from every International Airport in Australia to any airport in Asia that can handle a B767. We are saying that QF ignores BNE as a market, and expects us to fly down to SYD to go anywhere. But QF is a business and they are free to operate flights as they see fit, but we as consumers also have the right to not go to SYD and fly foreign carriers, despite some of our wants to support Australian businesses.

Regards,
AA7295
 
qantas787
Posts: 216
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:43 pm

Quoting TBCITDG (Reply 42):
If there is any criticism around here about QF why do the same QF loves always come up in their defence?
Why not take in positive criticism and try to view things from other peoples views?

Hi TBCITDG I hope you are not inferring I am a Qantas cheer leader. Trust me I would love to be in charge for a few years - man wouldn't we be able to fly to alot of places non-stop. I would have some of those shiny new 787's flying to all sorts of places. Later this year I will become a member of the 100+ countries visited club and if I could get my hands on the tiller I could add alot more countries without having to stop so often. Unfortunately I would probably struggle to make a profit, but gee I would have some fun.  Smile
G'day
 
anstar
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:38 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 43):
We are saying that QF ignores BNE as a market, and expects us to fly down to SYD to go anywhere. But QF is a business and they are free to operate flights as they see fit, but we as consumers also have the right to not go to SYD and fly foreign carriers, despite some of our wants to support Australian businesses.

QF uses Sydney as a hub and unfortunately because of this BNE and MEL to an extent will miss out on lots of direct flights in favour of having PAX connect through SYD.

The same can be said of carriers like BA. The only fly 1 daily long haul flight outside of london (MAN-JFK). Even their 2nd largest city (BHX) has had all their BA flights dropped.

The Asian carriers can have direct flights as they operate a hub at a halfway point. How many pax flying SQ from BNE are actually termianting in SIN? I would say less than 50%
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4348
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:22 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 43):
We are saying that QF ignores BNE as a market, and expects us to fly down to SYD to go anywhere. But QF is a business and they are free to operate flights as they see fit, but we as consumers also have the right to not go to SYD and fly foreign carriers, despite some of our wants to support Australian businesses.

QF doesn't "ignore" the BNE market, they give it the level of service they think will be profitable for them to provide. Perfect business logic. That doesn't satisfy you? Fine, use their competitors, thats what a free market is about. Just don't sound so mortally offended as you, Sparklehorse & others do. It's a business" decision, they aren't ignoring or putting you down or any other emotionally loaded term you want to use, BNE is just not profitable enough to QF to justify more non stop service.

I will be really interested to see how V Oz distribute the 10 weekly frequencies they have applied for between Oz cities and the USA. My GUESS: SYD-LAX daily, BNE-LAX 3 weekly, what's yours??

Gemuser
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AA7295
Posts: 457
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 46):
QF doesn't "ignore" the BNE market, they give it the level of service they think will be profitable for them to provide. Perfect business logic. That doesn't satisfy you? Fine, use their competitors, thats what a free market is about.

That's what we do... use foreign carriers.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 46):
BNE is just not profitable enough to QF to justify more non stop service.

Well it certaintly is profitable now, QF has realised this, but doesn't have the A/C to begin new/additional non-stop services. We are not talking about routes in this topic, we are talking about the mismanagement of the Qantas Group, and one of their failures was analysing the BNE market.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 46):
I will be really interested to see how V Oz distribute the 10 weekly frequencies they have applied for between Oz cities and the USA. My GUESS: SYD-LAX daily, BNE-LAX 3 weekly, what's yours??

I think you're spot on there, they will definitely do SYD-LAX because of the $$$ to be made on the route, and BNE-LAX because of their large number of connections at BNE.

Regards,
AA7295
 
Gemuser
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 47):
Well it certaintly is profitable now, QF has realised this, but doesn't have the A/C to begin new/additional non-stop services. We are not talking about routes in this topic, we are talking about the mismanagement of the Qantas Group, and one of their failures was analysing the BNE market.

How do you know its profitable? It most likely is, but we don't know! More importantly is it MORE profitable than somewhere else we could deploy to aircraft to? Once again WE DON'T KNOW!

Mismanagement? Maybe, but the current aircraft shortage is not QF managements fault, if they had the A380 on the orginal achedule all 12 of the orginal order would be here now, giving a large boost in capacity. As for smaller aircraft replacement they are early customers of the B787, couldn't get the aircraft until its on sale!

Gemuser
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AA7295
Posts: 457
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RE: QF Could Split Into Four Entities

Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 48):
Mismanagement? Maybe, but the current aircraft shortage is not QF managements fault, if they had the A380 on the orginal achedule all 12 of the orginal order would be here now, giving a large boost in capacity. As for smaller aircraft replacement they are early customers of the B787, couldn't get the aircraft until its on sale!

True about the A380, but the current fleet renewal program is about 3-4 years late. QF should have ordered more A330 earlier or decided to purchase the 777; this is mismanagement.

Regards,
AA7295