cygnuschicago
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Single-aisle Widebody

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:50 am

Sitting on one of UA's 767s last night, I was wondering if one can install wider seats in business class in a 3 3 configuration. Sure, if you do that you add a dreaded "middle-seat", but that effect can be countered by a staggered configuration, like EOS, or even the way UA's 767s have the center block offset a little from the side blocks.

Has any airline ever turned a wide body class into a single aisle? Is it even permissible?
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Cubsrule
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:54 am

Quoting CygnusChicago (Thread starter):
Is it even permissible?

3-3 would be OK, but seats with more than 2 seats between them and an aisle would not.
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474218
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:10 am

Does the 767 have the seat tracks to support 3-3 seating? I doubt it.
 
Rivet42
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:44 am

I suspect that from a safety point of view, having two aisles in Y class merging into a single aisle in C class would not get past certification. If only the front doors (port & starboard) were available for evacuation, you'd never get everyone out in an acceptable time (whatever that might be).

Riv'
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Cubsrule
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting Rivet42 (Reply 3):
If only the front doors (port & starboard) were available for evacuation, you'd never get everyone out in an acceptable time (whatever that might be).

A 6 door 763 (or any 772/747) could probably avoid this problem.
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N353SK
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:11 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 2):
Does the 767 have the seat tracks to support 3-3 seating? I doubt it.

If any airline were crazy enough to try 3-3 business class I'm sure the seats could be built to fit the existing tracks.

I suppose 3-3 seating would lead to slightly more seat width than 2-2-2, but I can't see anybody paying $7,000 for a middle seat to heathrow.
 
ShannoninAMA
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:20 pm

Im almost certain im getting this wrong, but say for economy, is this what you are talking about?



5 seats | Aisle | 5 seats



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ontime
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:16 pm

Thompson Solutions actually markets business class airline seats which use only a single aisle on the 767:

http://www.thompsonsolutions.co.uk/sketch15.html
http://www.thompsonsolutions.co.uk/ts_business_lopa.html#

By taking advantage of the space otherwise used for the extra aisle, they claim to be able to convert the plane from economy to all-business class (fully flat-bed seats) with only a 2-to-1 seat ratio, which is pretty extraordinary considering that most business class seats (even "old-style" non-flat seats) occupy the space of 3 economy seats. And their website also claims to be able to shift from old-style business seats (60" pitch) to fully-flat seats with no loss in capacity at all.

However, if an airline wanted to keep both a business and coach cabin (as it does seem impossible to have a coach cabin on the 767 with only one aisle), Thompson doesn't have any layout showing a single-aisle in business class, with a dual aisle in coach. I suspect that is for the reason that is noted by Rivet42 above -- that it would be difficult to get that layout certified. Which probably also explains why no carrier has gone with this layout. (Though it does seem odd that it's acceptable to have an entire 757-300 evacuate using one aisle, but not a 767 which in many cases is carrying less -- sometimes far less -- passengers.) But if it could be made to work, it's an intriguing idea.
 
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khelmDTW
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:42 am

I thought the definition of a widebody was more than 1 isle, wouldn't that make it a narrow body?
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PC12Fan
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting Ontime (Reply 7):

Kinda glad you beat me to posting those links. I would taken some guff.
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thering
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:50 am

So widebodies with only 1 aisle only in full-business/first config, otherwise impossible for security reasons.
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PC12Fan
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting Thering (Reply 10):
So widebodies with only 1 aisle only in full-business/first config, otherwise impossible for security reasons.

More really for evacuation reasons, IIRC.
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cygnuschicago
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting Ontime (Reply 7):
Thompson Solutions actually markets business class airline seats which use only a single aisle on the 767

Thanks for the links - interesting stuff. I'm not too sure how their 4+4 works with aisle access, when the seats are down, but they're definitely thinking creatively.
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ikramerica
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 9):
Kinda glad you beat me to posting those links. I would taken some guff.

Have these clowns ever sold anything to anyone, or are they just spinning their wheels? There used to be a guy on here who was a shill who would push this as the solution to every problem, and there were claims that airlines were "seriously considering" the designs.

Yet, haven't heard of any airline actually biting...
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ontime
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 12):
Thanks for the links - interesting stuff. I'm not too sure how their 4+4 works with aisle access, when the seats are down, but they're definitely thinking creatively.

It's actually not 4+4, it's 2+2, with each passenger having a console next to them. The seats are staggered left/right so that when you are fully reclined, your feet are underneath the console to the left/right of the passengers in the row in front of you. It's a little hard to describe, but the pictures in their "gallery" section do a better job. For example:

http://www.thompsonsolutions.co.uk/benz2.html
http://www.thompsonsolutions.co.uk/benz4.html
http://www.thompsonsolutions.co.uk/gallery_benz5.html
 
sv2008
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:55 am

Bit off topic, but - could an airline make a 3 aisle aircraft in economy? So on a 777-200 it would be 2-2-2-2?

I know it would be pointless because it wouldn't make any money, just wondered if it would be possible!
 
PC12Fan
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:01 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
Have these clowns ever sold anything to anyone, or are they just spinning their wheels?

They have a license agreement with Sicma Aeroseats to put this system on Emirates and China Southern A380's. There used to be a power point on TS website stating this, but I couldn't find the link to it.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
There used to be a guy on here who was a shill who would push this as the solution to every problem, and there were claims that airlines were "seriously considering" the designs.

Last post in this thread.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/3357567/

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cygnuschicago
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 15):
Bit off topic, but - could an airline make a 3 aisle aircraft in economy? So on a 777-200 it would be 2-2-2-2?

I guess that would be possible, but they'd be sacrificing floor area, may work for an "economy-plus configuration".

Boeing did explore the 3-aisle concept when investigating a new-build VLA competitor to the A380. The design study was called the 763-246C, and featured sleeper berths:

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Jammin
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:46 pm

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 17):

Hmm, that's an interesting concept... I'm telling you, the movie Fifth Element wasn't so far off in its transportation ideas  Smile
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cloudboy
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:35 am

Why would you want to do a single isle? That would severely restrict load times. If anything, I thought airlines were more interested in smaller wide bodies because they offered quicker turn around times.
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PC12Fan
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:50 am

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 19):
Why would you want to do a single isle? That would severely restrict load times.

Yes, but the difference here is that you only have to evacuate a little over 100 passengers. Not the usual 210 that the 767-300 normally carries.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:54 am

Quoting N353SK (Reply 5):
but I can't see anybody paying $7,000 for a middle seat to heathrow.

Welcome to the 777. Plenty of middle seats on AA in Biz.
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ikramerica
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 16):
Last post in this thread.

You are the one beating the dead horse, my friend. Emirates announced their product for the A380, three different configs. None used your system.

"licenses" to produce things are useless if you never produce anything. again, have they actually sold anything, or are they spinning their wheels?
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PC12Fan
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:09 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 22):
You are the one beating the dead horse, my friend.

I have just expressed my opinion of the concept, you are the one beating the dead horse throwing accusations at me. Say goodbye "dear friend", this will be the last time I respond to you on this matter. In regards to my "association" to the company - put up or shut up.

The statement that I gave regarding Emirates and China Southern is accurate albeit that they licensed "a part of the system". Hmmm, I wonder what that means....

The concepts may never see the light of day, but as I have said from the beginning, I think it's a good idea. Period.

The horse is now buried. I have learned you can never win a pissing match.
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georgebush
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:46 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 23):
I have learned you can never win a pissing match.

lmao! I cant believe how immature people can act on this website, its bloody seats for crying out loud! Go get a job with this "Thompson Soulutions" and share your wealth of priceless knowlege about the topic with them! And for the record you actually can win a pissing match, IF you have the right equipment...

Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 15):
could an airline make a 3 aisle aircraft in economy? So on a 777-200 it would be 2-2-2-2?

I've often thought about this too. They would only be losing one seat, and it would be incredibly more comftorble than being stuck in the middle seat of 5 in a row.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 24):
Quoting Sv2008 (Reply 15):
could an airline make a 3 aisle aircraft in economy? So on a 777-200 it would be 2-2-2-2?

I've often thought about this too. They would only be losing one seat, and it would be incredibly more comftorble than being stuck in the middle seat of 5 in a row.

This is true, but I would rather take more pitch than width. Anyway airlines wouldn't be able to charge enough to make up for the decreased pax numbers.
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malaysia
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:18 pm

I once drew a cabin configuration for my imaginary Lockeed L-1011-NG Tristar 800 Ultra. 3 GE90s and a 3x3x3x3 config.
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atmx2000
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:31 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
Have these clowns ever sold anything to anyone, or are they just spinning their wheels? There used to be a guy on here who was a shill who would push this as the solution to every problem, and there were claims that airlines were "seriously considering" the designs.

I am rather suspicious of someone whose first post mentions them.
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PC12Fan
Posts: 1978
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 27):
I am rather suspicious of someone whose first post mentions them.

Refer to the link in reply 16. I've been a member off and on since 2001.

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 24):
lmao! I cant believe how immature people can act on this website, its bloody seats for crying out loud!

Couldn't have said it better myself.
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atmx2000
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RE: Single-aisle Widebody

Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:38 pm

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 28):
Refer to the link in reply 16. I've been a member off and on since 2001.

I'm specifically talking about "Ontime" who mentioned those seats as his very first post.
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