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knope2001
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Updated Load Factors For XJet

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:24 am

Here are updated onboard loads for ExpressJet-braded service at airports with detailed reporting.

Loads are definitely trending up, although not yet close to par with their CO* operation.

These are from direct airport monthly stats and are not route-specific. Note that MSY was changed for May due to a calculation mistake the last time I posted.

JAX
39.4% May
47.9% June

RDU
39.9% May

OMA
18.9% April
34.6% May
60.2% June

MCI
16.1% April
33.8% May
47.7% June

MSY
40.7% May
46.5% June

AUS
21.8% April
29.6% May
34.9% June

CRP
14.8% May
17.0% June

ABQ
36.5% June

SAN
35.9% May

ONT
18.3% April
33.6% May
48.9% June

GEG
21.9% April
29.9% May
54.5% June

SAT
16.9% April

COS
36.0% May
56.0% June

Starting in later spring definitely got them rolling for the summer travel peak, and part of the battle for an upstart is always getting people to be aware of and try you, even if it is because the competition is full. We'll see as the months go on if that translates to continued improvement, or if their improving summer loads were due to spill.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:41 am

Are some of those really bad or is there some unknown source of profit within the cities performing at 16 and 17%? Their higher loads are only barely breakking 60%.

Are these guys pulling killer yields or are they taking a loss?
 
AlexPorter
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:13 pm

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 1):
Are these guys pulling killer yields or are they taking a loss?

Since most of the corporate income comes from Express operations for Continental and Delta, which generally have high profit margins, the company as a whole gets enough income from those operations to support any losses than the stand-alone XJet operation sustains as it grows. Notice that load factors are increasing, so as they increase, the losses will decrease for the stand-alone operation. Expressjet should be fine.
Last Flight: SCX701 MSP-PHX B738 8Jan2008
 
DesertAir
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:56 pm

I was hoping to see Tucson on the list. I flew Xjet from TUS-to SMF on July 15th. I had a good experience and enjoyed the snack and music.
 
runway23
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:25 pm

Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):
SAT
16.9% April



Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):
CRP
17.0% June

Those are extremely low figures. On a RJ145 that corresponds to roughly 8.5 passengers average per flight.

One has to wonder how long you give such routes before giving up. If they can't get them anywhere near the rest of the network then there probably isn't a market for them.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:57 pm

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 4):
Those are extremely low figures. On a RJ145 that corresponds to roughly 8.5 passengers average per flight.

One has to wonder how long you give such routes before giving up. If they can't get them anywhere near the rest of the network then there probably isn't a market for them.

Maybe they shouldnt have gone down to WN country.
 
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knope2001
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 3):
I was hoping to see Tucson on the list. I flew Xjet from TUS-to SMF on July 15th. I had a good experience and enjoyed the snack and music.

Tucson's website does not break down monthly traffic by airline. That's why they, TUL, FAT, BOI, OKC, SMF, and a few others are not on this list.

Xjet has withheld the monthly detailed-by-market reporting (the T-100's) that all airlines are required to submit, so we can't see specific markets. I don't even think Xjet (the whole CO* + XE) has been releasing monthly systemwide traffic reports. The best we have is doing calculations on individual airports. That's a big reason why I keep on this and post this stuff...there's no other information out there for them since March.
 
flyingchoirboy
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 4):
Those are extremely low figures. On a RJ145 that corresponds to roughly 8.5 passengers average per flight.

I hate to be a pessimist, but I never thought that XJet was such a good idea.

Scott
 
Danny
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:34 pm

As predicted FlyI deja vu.
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:39 pm

Quoting Danny (Reply 8):
As predicted FlyI deja vu.

Not really. FlyI had no source of income outside of their branded flying. XJet is pulling in plenty of cash from CO and DL to allow the branded service to grow without pulling the company under.
 
UN_B732
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2001 12:57 am

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:45 pm

and Xjet presumably has higher RASM than DH.
-A
What now?
 
Danny
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 9):
Not really. FlyI had no source of income outside of their branded flying. XJet is pulling in plenty of cash from CO and DL to allow the branded service to grow without pulling the company under.

I realise that but their branded operation will end up just like DM. Starts with low LF, their lower prices to fill aircraft, LF slowly rises but losses are mounting.

Bottom line is: it is impossible to make profit flying RJ with 7 people on board.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 11):
I realise that but their branded operation will end up just like DM. Starts with low LF, their lower prices to fill aircraft, LF slowly rises but losses are mounting.

Ahh contraire.. mon ami...

Expressjet is not in the $49, $39, $79 a flight group.. they actually price their flights realistically.. they actually price their flights to make a profit and not just to get butts in the seat.. and they are winning customers by offering good service and flights to places people want to go without connecting.. And as with any airline that isn't offering dirt cheap fares ($8, $2, $29, etc), the more people learn about them, the stronger they will grow. I don't think any airline starts out thinking they are gonna be in the black the first year or even the first two years. So a good business will take that into play when they are budgeting themselves.. but they are getting better loads, more converts, and I think they will probably be ready for their first expansion by next summer..

And just like the major airlines do with some of their routes, the ones that are a slower start are offset by the ones that are doing better.. it happens everyday in every business field on every continent..

Simma down, give them a chance, sit back, and enjoy the show..
Aiming High and going far..
 
jetmatt777
Crew
Posts: 2902
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):

OKC?
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
Tornado82
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:35 am

Unlike FlyI which was strictly a hub-spoke operation with slews of CRJ to CRJ connections in IAD (which still could be bought for sub $150 r/t), XJet is primarily a P2P operation. Sure there are a few connections, but there is a ton of point to point as can be seen by their convoluted route structure. If DH had run more of a P2P operation and charged reasonable fares they too could have survived. Anyone finding such similarities between the XJet and FlyI operations has either not paid any attention to their respective route and fare structures at all, or is just trying to incite a flame war. It's a complete case of apples and oranges, with the only thing being in common is the 50 seat regional jet equipment.
 
artsyman
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:42 am

I think the bean counters at XJET will be a lot more interested in the significant growth in load factors from month to month, than the fact that they are a little low at the moment. If they maintain the current growth, or anything similar, their planes will be full in a few months. To get to that point in under a year is a significant achievement. Some routes will work better than others, but most on that list look reasonably healthy at this point in the growth curve.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 14):
It's a complete case of apples and oranges, with the only thing being in common is the 50 seat regional jet equipment.

I certainly agree that you can't compare XJet to FlyI....they are using a different business model.

With that said, I still think XJet is going to be a money loser. While their point-to-point model makes sense, their route selection is so random that few customers will really be able to stay loyal to them. One week, Joe Business Traveler might need to fly JAX-RDU (where XJet is an option), but next week he might need to fly to JAX-Chicago (no XJet). If XJet can only provide a few random p2p routes, most business travelers will stay loyal to existing carriers with larger-scale networks (even if it means connecting). XJet will be left with infrequent and leisure traffic....which is not a recipe for success when using high-cost RJ's.

ExpressJet is fortunate (unlike FlyI) that most of their business is contract work for CO/DL where they can make profits to offset the losses of XJet. Long-term, I wouldn't be surprised to see XJet planes either brought into more contract flying for DL or once the planes are old-enough retired to the desert.
 
SkyexRamper
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:57 am

How can people say that the april load factors were horribly low when ExpressJet service started in April. That seems very good numbers for an airline that no one had flown on before. As for their growth to the 1/2 full marks is quite good for this only being the end of July.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 16):
One week, Joe Business Traveler might need to fly JAX-RDU (where XJet is an option), but next week he might need to fly to JAX-Chicago (no XJet).

I can smell what you are cooking there.. but there are also a lot of business travelers that will fly JAX-RDU weekly or every 2 weeks.. then there are the family of 4 that wants to go to JAX.. then there are students who may want to go to JAX for a sports event or conert.. then there are the individuals who want to go RDU-SAV but will do RDU-JAX and drive to SAV.. XE did a lot of market research before they started these flights and saw the potential on their choices.. now they just have to see how well they fly. But after 2 or 3 months, there is still a lot more data needed before cancelling a route should occur. but i'm sure there will be some cancelations after the new year..
Aiming High and going far..
 
Tornado82
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 16):
With that said, I still think XJet is going to be a money loser. While their point-to-point model makes sense, their route selection is so random that few customers will really be able to stay loyal to them. One week, Joe Business Traveler might need to fly JAX-RDU (where XJet is an option), but next week he might need to fly to JAX-Chicago (no XJet). If XJet can only provide a few random p2p routes, most business travelers will stay loyal to existing carriers with larger-scale networks (even if it means connecting).

Chances are the business travelers were going to stay with their legacy that they were already choosing for their travel to Chicago to begin with. ExpressJet smartly filled niches where P2P was needed but not happening, as opposed to getting into 3 or 4 way wars into some place like Chicago. It's alot easier to peel people off a a connector to your own direct flight than it is to peel people off an airline which is most likely running bigger equipment and more frequency to a major hub.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:20 am

The XE schedules change on 1/8/08. I think you'll see announcements made in regards to flight changes by mid November at the latest.
 
FlyPNS1
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 19):
Chances are the business travelers were going to stay with their legacy that they were already choosing for their travel to Chicago to begin with.

True, but then what makes you think the business traveler won't stay with that legacy carrier when it comes time to fly JAX-RDU too. XJet's only real advantage is the nonstop flight. They don't have a cost advantage, they don't have much for a frequent flier program, they don't have a comprehensive network and they don't have a frequentcy advantage. If Joe Business traveler's meeting in RDU ends early and he wants to go home early, it won't work on XJet.

Don't get me wrong, I think XJet will certainly find a decent number of leisure and infrequent travelers to help fill their planes. The problem is that they won't make a profit on that type of customer.
 
MAH4546
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 9):
Quoting Danny (Reply 8):
As predicted FlyI deja vu.

Not really. FlyI had no source of income outside of their branded flying. XJet is pulling in plenty of cash from CO and DL to allow the branded service to grow without pulling the company under.

Exactly. I firmly believe that Xjet has an independent airline will be gone within two years. As a company, they will do fine. They can make a lot more money flying those RJs as a regional carrier for a major than as a stand alone operation. We really won't get a real idea of how they are doing until fall comes along, and the leisure travelers stop flying. Of course, it doesn't help that they create a route network based on markets with no non-stop service, and then, of course, others respond and enter those markets.
a.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 21):

True, but then what makes you think the business traveler won't stay with that legacy carrier when it comes time to fly JAX-RDU too.

This...

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 21):
XJet's only real advantage is the nonstop flight.

Unlike leisure travelers who'd drive to hell and back to save $25 a ticket to Disney or Vegas by flying WN/FL/G4 the business traveler wants to spend the least amount of time possible travelling.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 21):
If Joe Business traveler's meeting in RDU ends early and he wants to go home early, it won't work on XJet.

By your same accord, riddle me this. XE offers 2x daily service to JAX, as does MQ. If the business traveler decides to fly home earlier, they have two options.. wait for their XE flight, or take another airline who is going to connect you through another city. Now, if they do get the connection, they are adding at least another 2 hours to their flight. So, unless they do something extravagant like finishing their day meeting 4 hours earlier, it would not make more sense to take the connecting flight because you are going to spend the same amount of time, but also have to go through the hassle of the connection. Most business travelers would probably use that extra time to get work done somewhere.

Now, XE does not have a lounge like the majors, but then majors do not have lounges at all airports.. so that point is moot too..

So, again, I believe XE is actually make a lot of sense in what they are doing.. have a well thought out plan as to their action.. and the numbers are starting to show it.. None of the stations are showing a decline, and most are showing at least a 50% increase between initial month and current month.. I think that is tremendous..

Also, from almost all of the markets, there are still unserved opportunities that XE can develop if they need to drop a flight or two..
Aiming High and going far..
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 23):

This...

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 21):
XJet's only real advantage is the nonstop flight.

Unlike leisure travelers who'd drive to hell and back to save $25 a ticket to Disney or Vegas by flying WN/FL/G4 the business traveler wants to spend the least amount of time possible travelling.

Yes, they do. Many still won't give up their allegiance to their airlines. When I travel business (or leisure), I will take a reasonable connection over a non-stop flight if it is on one of my two frequent airlines (American Airlines and Delta). They offer me miles, free upgrades, lounge access, etc., etc.

Also, as we have seen, airlines have responded to XJet by adding flights in their markets. Alaska/Horizon and American Eagle have reacted the strongest so far. You'll see more responses coming up as airlines begin to see where XJet is working.
a.
 
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knope2001
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 13):
Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):

OKC?

No monthly stats by carrier at OKC either, unfortunately.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 24):

So, again, I believe XE is actually make a lot of sense in what they are doing.. have a well thought out plan as to their action.. and the numbers are starting to show it.. None of the stations are showing a decline, and most are showing at least a 50% increase between initial month and current month.. I think that is tremendous..

You are giving them way too much credit. This type of start is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. You could have said the same thing about Independence.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 24):
By your same accord, riddle me this. XE offers 2x daily service to JAX, as does MQ. If the business traveler decides to fly home earlier, they have two options.. wait for their XE flight, or take another airline who is going to connect you through another city. Now, if they do get the connection, they are adding at least another 2 hours to their flight. So, unless they do something extravagant like finishing their day meeting 4 hours earlier, it would not make more sense to take the connecting flight because you are going to spend the same amount of time, but also have to go through the hassle of the connection. Most business travelers would probably use that extra time to get work done somewhere.

Maybe I'm not a rushed business traveler, but I'll take my connection (which would typically add 1-1.5 hours, not two), my upgrades, and my miles. And you can bet that if you are connecting, that connecting hub has a lounge.

[Edited 2007-07-31 21:23:36]
a.
 
FlyPNS1
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:26 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 24):
Now, if they do get the connection, they are adding at least another 2 hours to their flight. So, unless they do something extravagant like finishing their day meeting 4 hours earlier, it would not make more sense to take the connecting flight because you are going to spend the same amount of time, but also have to go through the hassle of the connection. Most business travelers would probably use that extra time to get work done somewhere.

True, the connection will add more time, but if meetings do end very early or if meetings are only scheduled to last a half day, then XJet doesn't work. Or what happens if the meetings run late? FL and DL will allow you to fly RDU-ATL-JAX with departures out of RDU as late as 8-9pm. With XJet, if your meeting runs long and you miss the flight, you are stuck.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 23):
Unlike leisure travelers who'd drive to hell and back to save $25 a ticket to Disney or Vegas by flying WN/FL/G4 the business traveler wants to spend the least amount of time possible travelling.

True, but most business travelers also want to be rewarded for their flying (via extensive frequent flyer programs) and have flexibilty to change their schedules. XJet offers neither.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 24):
None of the stations are showing a decline, and most are showing at least a 50% increase between initial month and current month.. I think that is tremendous..

But as you know, filling up planes is only part of the equation....getting the right yield mix is the other part. I have no doubt that XJet can fill planes up, but I do have doubts whether then can fill them with high-enough yields to offset the high cost of operations.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):
Here are updated onboard loads for ExpressJet-braded service at airports with detailed reporting

SMF???

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
RJNUT
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:33 am

you a

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 27):

Maybe I'm not a rushed business traveler, but I'll take my connection, my upgrades, and my miles. And you can bet that if you are connecting, that connecting hub has a lounge.

You are a dying breed..Where have you been this summer with all the missed connections and being told that you cant be rerouted until 2days from now!

Our travelers are eating up this new service...MCI-RDU,for example,looks sold out (as well as AA Eagle) quite often and it aint that cheap!
many markets i pull samplings for show many sold out flights!! And the revenue is not split between two segments ..Indy air split $ 79 fares between two flights connecting in IAD...... BIG DIFFERENCE!
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:54 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 27):
You could have said the same thing about Independence.

No. Not really. Independence were completely dependent on funneling pax through IAD. Nice concept but that concept is about 20 years too late. There is only so much traffic to Washington. I stated and I still believe they would have done so much better offering P2P routes to 2nd and 3rd tier markets that most of the legacy carriers are pulling out of and almost all of the low cost carriers do not look at.

For instance. AHN. US had 2 B1900 flights out of AHN. ANd they were probably charging $500 for a flight in and out of. If DH had offered even 1-2x daily service to IAD, plus 1 daily or weekly flights to MCO, CHI, NYC, etc.. they would have seen a difference.. in my opinion.. but perhaps I just believe that service offered at the right price would provide the demand. Who knows.. but you never know until you try..

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 27):
Maybe I'm not a rushed business traveler, but I'll take my connection (which would typically add 1-1.5 hours, not two), my upgrades, and my miles. And you can bet that if you are connecting, that connecting hub has a lounge.

More and more business travelers are finding the miles aren't working because they are getting to difficult to redeem. Same with the upgrades. As more airlines take away First class and business class seats, you are starting to have to own the company to get a FC seat upgrade. So those points are becoming more and more moot. And as far as the connecting hubs go, they are getting SO busy that it's becoming an ant farm. And the added time of having to go through a hub is not an added benefit to flying a legacy.. thus why you see a lot more business travelers flying Southwest.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 28):
Or what happens if the meetings run late? FL and DL will allow you to fly RDU-ATL-JAX with departures out of RDU as late as 8-9pm. With XJet, if your meeting runs long and you miss the flight, you are stuck.

Now taht is true...

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 28):
True, but most business travelers also want to be rewarded for their flying (via extensive frequent flyer programs) and have flexibilty to change their schedules. XJet offers neither.

I think the ExpressJet FF program is called JetSet or something like that.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 28):
But as you know, filling up planes is only part of the equation....getting the right yield mix is the other part.

Again, XE is not offering chump change flights. They are not go!. They are not Independence Air. They are Southwest. Fares out of RDU range from between $80 to $250 each way.. with most lying between $125-$250 each way. That leads to a very good yield in my opinion.. That is far from the cheapest for the flights...
Aiming High and going far..
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24612
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 31):
I still believe they would have done so much better offering P2P routes to 2nd and 3rd tier markets that most of the legacy carriers are pulling out of and almost all of the low cost carriers do not look at.

They did. They began doing a plethora of PTP routes from Florida, none of them worked.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 31):
More and more business travelers are finding the miles aren't working because they are getting to difficult to redeem. Same with the upgrades. As more airlines take away First class and business class seats, you are starting to have to own the company to get a FC seat upgrade.

I've found miles have gotten easier to redeem, especially with programs like AA's "Anytime" redemptions. Airlines have also been adding, not subtracting, first class seats. American Airlines and Delta are examples of this.
a.
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 31):
More and more business travelers are finding the miles aren't working because they are getting to difficult to redeem. Same with the upgrades. As more airlines take away First class and business class seats, you are starting to have to own the company to get a FC seat upgrade. So those points are becoming more and more moot. And as far as the connecting hubs go, they are getting SO busy that it's becoming an ant farm. And the added time of having to go through a hub is not an added benefit to flying a legacy.. thus why you see a lot more business travelers flying Southwest.

When WN starts flying JFK-LAX, MIA-LAX, DCA-LAX, BOS-LAX, DCA-LGA, and so forth we can talk.. Until then business travellers in the key business markets know that we are much better rewarded on the legacy airlines than we could ever be rewarded on the LCC. Southwest Airlines may have a following, but it is the very cost concious leisure and cost concious business traveller. You are not going to see management or employees of Glaxxo, Chase, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers and so forth flying on WN.

In reference to the above mention of airlines making it harder and harder to upgrade, that is not true in the least. I returned from a quick business/leisure trip the other day.

JFK-MIA(762)-LAX(772)-SFO(M80)-ORD(763)-LHR(772)-JFK(772).

All on American Airlines, every single flight I was able to upgrade using miles, not a problem on any of them. The only flight I opted not to upgrade on was the SFO-LAX flight which is worthless and a waste of miles to upgrade on. I still dont understand why people think that they are so important when they are in the F cabin on a 45 minute flight..I would argue that American Airlines ability to upgrade and purchse tickets using miles at anytime is by far a major advantage over many many airlines. Believe it or not American Airlines is adding, not taking away premium seats. They know where the money is, and they know what it takes to retain the enormous following AAdvantage is known for.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
PanAm747
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RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:18 am

Quote:
JAX
39.4% May
47.9% June

8.5% growth

Quote:
OMA
18.9% April
34.6% May
60.2% June

15.7% growth and 25.6% growth

Quote:
MCI
16.1% April
33.8% May
47.7% June

17.7% and 13.9% growth

Quote:
MSY
40.7% May
46.5% June

5.8% growth

Quote:
AUS
21.8% April
29.6% May
34.9% June

7.8% and 5.3% growth

Quote:
CRP
14.8% May
17.0% June

2.8% growth

Quote:
ONT
18.3% April
33.6% May
48.9% June

15.3% growth both times

Quote:
GEG
21.9% April
29.9% May
54.5% June

8% and 24.6% growth

Quote:
COS
36.0% May
56.0% June

20% growth

Hmm...for an airline with relatively little advertising, I see significant growth in every reported market.

XJet does not compete with any airline with their routes - certainly every route they fly can be done on another airline via a hub, but XJet is going for the niche market.

I was pointing out to friends XJet's route map, and the question came up, "why don't they fly to Austin or San Antonio from San Diego?" I responded that these are WN's domain, and that they are wisely staying away from them.

It simply is not possible to see immediate profit from new routes on a new airline - there are simply too many factors involved. XJet, hopefully, is seeing that they will need to look to their long term interests, not to immediate profit and axing of routes that need time to develop.

I may be a bit biased, but I don't think they threw darts at a map of the U.S. to decide their routes - let's give them time to grow and develop. And if, in the end, some get to do the "I Told You So!!!" dance, well, then, I'll put on the music. But until that day, don't throw the baby out with the bath water - let's be patient and see what happens.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
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flyingclrs727
Posts: 768
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):
CRP
14.8% May
17.0% June



Quoting Runway23 (Reply 4):
Those are extremely low figures. On a RJ145 that corresponds to roughly 8.5 passengers average per flight.

One has to wonder how long you give such routes before giving up. If they can't get them anywhere near the rest of the network then there probably isn't a market for them.

I flew both CRP-AUS-ONT and ONT-AUS-CRP on a business trip earlier this month. Other than my boss and myself, there were only two passengers flying to AUS from CRP. The legs between AUS and ONT had 100% load factor both ways. On the return trip there was only one other passengers from AUS to CRP. Without connection opportunities in AUS, there is little reason to fly CRP-AUS at 6:30 am. If you wake up early enough to go to the airport, check in, go through security and board the plane, you could drive to Austin while the highway traffic is still light and get there before the start of the business day and not have to rent a car in Austin. According to the Great Circle Mapper website, the distance between the airports is only 269 km (167 miles). Driving from downtown Corpus Christi to downtown Austin via I-37 and I-35 is about 200 miles. The only times when it makes sense to fly are later on in the morning and afternoon when traffic gets heavier.
 
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knope2001
Posts: 2288
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 29):
Quoting Knope2001 (Thread starter):
Here are updated onboard loads for ExpressJet-braded service at airports with detailed reporting

SMF???

-JD

No monthly stats available online which detail traffic by airline for these stations:

BOI
SMF
MRY
FAT
BFL
TUS
ELP
OKC
TUL

If any of you who are more familiar with these airport sites know where this monthly traffic by airline data is held, please let me know. It's good to see how different stations are developing, even if it doesn't break down by route.

BHM has them but is still only up to April, and XE started in May
 
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ERJ170
Posts: 5486
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 33):
You are not going to see management or employees of Glaxxo, Chase, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers and so forth flying on WN.

It depends on where they are trying to go and where they are flying from. Trust me. Just as many GSK employees fly WN RDU-PHL as fly MQ and US.. I've seen them in the lines...

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 32):
I've found miles have gotten easier to redeem, especially with programs like AA's "Anytime" redemptions. Airlines have also been adding, not subtracting, first class seats. American Airlines and Delta are examples of this.

Okay. Let's look at the markets where XE flies.. they are not hub airports (uhmm.. save MCI) and they do not have the plethora of mainline flights that the airports that everyone is talking about. And they are NOT trying to compete with the majors on their core flights/destiantions. XE is going after secondary flights that business and leisure travelers use. Intentionally avoiding the main business destinations because they are actually trying to make a difference.

Does anyone in their mind think if XE had not started, MQ would have even remotely thought about RDU-MCI/JAX/SDF? Heck no! But now there is. And regardless of how great it is to upgrade on such and such flight and now you can get any seat you want because AA saw the light, then good for you but it doesn't work like that all the time from outstations..

From MIA, LAX, ORD, DFW! SURE they are part of the AA hub system. From ATL, JFK, LAX, SLC.. sure.. they are a part of the DL hub system.. but from OKC, SDF, MSY, MRY.. you think any of those places are gonna see 737s, 757s, 767s to destiantions like ONT, SAN, RDU, TUS? I don't think so.. it's gonna be regional jets with no first class where FF miles and upgrades are worthless with 3-4 daily flights.. and if they do offer first class.. they may offer between 40-80 each day for the what? 200-500 people in their FF program in that area? Yeah.. easy to come by..

I am not in any way putting any ill feelings on the legacy carreirs. They are doing what they have to do to get some money themselves. but I dont think it's right to poo-poo XE for going outside the box with good ideas and research to put it to the test. I think it will work. It works in Europe everyday. Look at Eastern and Darwin and Blue1.. Southwest and other airlines.

But I digress..
Aiming High and going far..
 
whatusaid
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:11 pm

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:26 am

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 36):
If any of you who are more familiar with these airport sites know where this monthly traffic by airline data is held, please let me know. It's good to see how different stations are developing, even if it doesn't break down by route.

FAT hasn't published stats since January....
 
TrvlnMan
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:53 pm

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting Danny (Reply 8):
As predicted FlyI deja vu.

Hardly - XJT doesn't offer $39 walk up fares, doesn't operate from an established hub, doesn't run 12 flights between markets, has interline agreements, and isn't dependant on this as their only source of income....  goodvibes 
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:49 am

Those numbers are tragic! Hate to say "I told you so."
This Website Censors Me
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:36 am

ExpressJets product is amazing! I just got home a few min ago from flying them SAN-FAT. The flight to SAN was 99% full! Only 1 seat was empty. On the flight to FAT, we had 3 seats empty. So they are doing amazing with the FAT flights. This morning when I was at the SAN aiport, the FAT flight arrived and the flight attendant said there was not a single seat open. I believed it seeing everyone coming out of that plane. Same thing with with BFL flight into SAN. The flight out to BFL was not full though. Maybe only 20 pax's. The flight to MTY was pretty full. Maybe 40 pax's. People on the flights were saying that they have been flying with XE the past few weeks and will continue. Buisness people up here in Madera are talking about XE alot. Seriously!

Good job XE!
Don't Tread On Me!
 
MSYguy
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:46 am

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 5):
Maybe they shouldnt have gone down to WN country.

Yeah, what idiot would want a nonstop flight with a seat assignment and a meal when they could go WN, stop three times in route, enjoy some peanuts, and fight the crowd of folks standing in line to board before the plane even arrives just to get a middle seat anyway? How foolish of Xjet.
 
whatusaid
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:11 pm

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:53 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 41):
ExpressJets product is amazing! I just got home a few min ago from flying them SAN-FAT. The flight to SAN was 99% full! Only 1 seat was empty.

What is it with FAT-SAN anyhow? Looking at this week, Friday flights are sold out as are the Sunday returns. Only a few seats are left on the Thursday AM to SAN, and the pm is sold out. Having been around FAT Marketing for a few years, we never saw the potential of the route. Oh, we always sought the service from carriers, but the general perception was that SAN was not a strong intra-state O&D market for FAT. I guess we were wrong?

Am curious as to the passenger demographics on your SAN flights. I've noticed their FAT-ONT flights are primarily leisure traffic. Same to/fr SAN?

It will be interesting to see if they bid for the State contracts in the California markets....that might help once the summer traffic dies down. In the meantime, let's hope traffic continues to build. UA needs a little competition in MRY and FAT for intrastate traffic...
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:35 pm

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 43):
Having been around FAT Marketing for a few years, we never saw the potential of the route. Oh, we always sought the service from carriers, but the general perception was that SAN was not a strong intra-state O&D market for FAT. I guess we were wrong?

I'm surprised you guys didn't see it. I always thought there was quite a bit there. I think XJet is missing even more by not allowing same day business trips on the route. I used to say that I could see at least once a day if WN had started at FAT.

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 43):
It will be interesting to see if they bid for the State contracts in the California markets....that might help once the summer traffic dies down.

The contracts start with the July 1 fiscal year, so they missed this years'.

Nice money there for their routes if they could get it. The currect contracted state employee fare on FAT-SAN is $220 RT advance, $352 walkup.

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 43):
Am curious as to the passenger demographics on your SAN flights. I've noticed their FAT-ONT flights are primarily leisure traffic. Same to/fr SAN?

When I did Sun/Thurs on the route a few weeks ago it seemed mainly leisure but there were laptops out and briefcases open for about 8 or 10 passengers.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:00 pm

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 43):
What is it with FAT-SAN anyhow? Looking at this week, Friday flights are sold out as are the Sunday returns. Only a few seats are left on the Thursday AM to SAN, and the pm is sold out. Having been around FAT Marketing for a few years, we never saw the potential of the route. Oh, we always sought the service from carriers, but the general perception was that SAN was not a strong intra-state O&D market for FAT. I guess we were wrong?

Yeah I would have never guessed. Everyone on my flight exeted the airport and were getting on hotel shuttles. So no one was connecting onto other flights or buy tickets for other flights. My flight to SAN had only 1 empty seat. A couple and their child tried booking a ticket last min and they told them they could only get them on the later flight and even that had only 4 empty seats! My flight back to FAT had 4 empty seats on it. I was surprised that many people going to FAT from SAN. The BFL flight boarded right before our flight and they must have had a good 3/4 of the plane full. MRY flight about 20 min before that looked good as well. Must have been almost all the way full! XE deffinatly did their homework. Or maybe it was a lets pull the papers out of the hat  Wink

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 43):
Am curious as to the passenger demographics on your SAN flights. I've noticed their FAT-ONT flights are primarily leisure traffic. Same to/fr SAN?



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 44):
When I did Sun/Thurs on the route a few weeks ago it seemed mainly leisure but there were laptops out and briefcases open for about 8 or 10 passengers.

Well on the flight to SAN there were about 6 passangers in suits and another 10 or so passangers had the neatly dressing with slacks and all with brief cases. So a pretty good show up with buisness passangers I'd say. There were a few familys as well on this flight.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
SANFan
Posts: 3696
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:49 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 41):
ExpressJets product is amazing! I just got home a few min ago from flying them SAN-FAT. The flight to SAN was 99% full! Only 1 seat was empty. On the flight to FAT, we had 3 seats empty. So they are doing amazing with the FAT flights. This morning when I was at the SAN aiport, the FAT flight arrived and the flight attendant said there was not a single seat open. I believed it seeing everyone coming out of that plane. Same thing with with BFL flight into SAN. The flight out to BFL was not full though. Maybe only 20 pax's. The flight to MTY[sic] was pretty full. Maybe 40 pax's. People on the flights were saying that they have been flying with XE the past few weeks and will continue. Buisness people up here in Madera are talking about XE alot. Seriously!
Good job XE!

Hey, wonderful report 'FAT! Great to hear another positive testimonial and more reports of full (or nearly so) planes. I too have seen some figures of SAN loads and overall, they are very impressive. (Yesterday both SAN-FAT flights were 100% full!) I continue to believe strongly in XE and think they have a winning combination that is already gaining a faithful following in their carefully selected niche. And I don't envision a dramatic falloff in loads in the fall when the vacationers/tourists stop flying.

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 43):
What is it with FAT-SAN anyhow? Looking at this week, Friday flights are sold out as are the Sunday returns. Only a few seats are left on the Thursday AM to SAN, and the pm is sold out. Having been around FAT Marketing for a few years, we never saw the potential of the route. Oh, we always sought the service from carriers, but the general perception was that SAN was not a strong intra-state O&D market for FAT.

For years I have thought about and discussed the "alternate airport" syndrome and I like to think that the planners and visionaries at XE recognize its existence in many places, including a prime example, San Diego. The DOT O&D figures for 2Q06 show SAN-FAT at 47 daily pax; XE probably figured at least half again as many more pax from SAN (e.g., North County) surface up to LA then fly to FAT, showing up of course as LAX-FAT pax. XE runs 100 seats a day each way between SAN and FAT and, from the looks of things, could easily add a 3rd frequency! Airlines that see these patterns (WN is another very good example of utilization of this strategy) can develop "hidden" markets into successful and profitable ones. (That's one reason WN will op over 100 flights/day out of SAN within a month!) The ability to search out these markets and develop them with P-2-P service while the legacies continue (successfully?) working their hubs and their spokes demonstrates to me that there is probably room for both in modern US aviation.

When all you need is 50 bodies to reach a 100% LF, and offer service and a flying experience just about as good as if not better than many of the legacies, as well as eliminating stops/changes that easily increase the likelihood of lost baggage, missed connex, and oversold flights, in many, many markets that obviously have traffic, and accomplish all this with reasonable fares, well, I have trouble seeing how that can do anything but succeed!

bb
 
HAJFlyer
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:34 pm

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 35):
Without connection opportunities in AUS, there is little reason to fly CRP-AUS at 6:30 am. If you wake up early enough to go to the airport, check in, go through security and board the plane, you could drive to Austin while the highway traffic is still light and get there before the start of the business day and not have to rent a car in Austin.

That flight never made any sense to me. I would be surprised if there were enough CRP - LAX metro area OD traffic to make it viable and as you rightly point out taking a plane to AUS from CRP when only two rather inconvenient flights are offered per day does not make for an attractive value proposition.

Anyone looking for a connection will be much better off by taking CO to IAH or WN to HOU.

Regards,
HAJ
 
HAJFlyer
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:34 pm

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting FlyingClrs727 (Reply 35):
Without connection opportunities in AUS, there is little reason to fly CRP-AUS at 6:30 am. If you wake up early enough to go to the airport, check in, go through security and board the plane, you could drive to Austin while the highway traffic is still light and get there before the start of the business day and not have to rent a car in Austin.

That flight never made any sense to me. I would be surprised if there were enough CRP - LAX metro area OD traffic to make it viable and as you rightly point out taking a plane to AUS from CRP when only two rather inconvenient flights are offered per day does not make for an attractive value proposition.

Anyone looking for a connection will be much better off by taking CO to IAH or WN to HOU.

Regards,
HAJ
 
SANFan
Posts: 3696
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: Updated Load Factors For XJet

Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:50 am

Quoting HAJFlyer (Reply 48):
That flight never made any sense to me. I would be surprised if there were enough CRP - LAX metro area OD traffic to make it viable and as you rightly point out taking a plane to AUS from CRP when only two rather inconvenient flights are offered per day does not make for an attractive value proposition.

Maybe I'm dreaming but didn't someone on another thread indicate that XE has (or uses) a mx base at CRP? Thus the service (only from AUS), and at these times.

bb

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