747400sp
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Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:37 am

By 2010 JAL will retire all there 747 classic and turn there 744 into freighters, So why they do not order 747-8I. With 747-8I JAL could still give there passenger 747 service, with the good things of a modern jet.
 
flytuitravel
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:50 am

Maybe they are going the same way as NH and using the 77W?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:16 am

JL just may no longer need a 744 for the routes and payloads they fly, and the 77W is more efficient in such cases.
 
britjap
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:34 am

In 2006 JAL changed from 747 to 777 on their European routes, and were able to achieve ten percent cost reductions. Which is especially important for JAL which is still downsizing and restructuring. JAL president himself has mentioned that by 2010, implementing improvements in their 777, 787 and 737 operations they aim to achieve savings of in excess of £350m (GBP).
JAL are still focusing heavily on cost cutting and returning their business to a healthy situation. I dont think that they will place any VLA orders for a while yet. Maybe not until after the the aircraft in question have entered service for other airlines.
 
widebodyphotog
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:38 am

JAL has no money and are facing a very serious financial crisis in the coming months. They have no money and their credit has been downgraded so they basically can not borrow money either. Don't expect much of anything in the way of orders from them soon. They will have a tough enough time keeping themselves out of default come September so new big airplanes are probably off the radar screen for a while at least.



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egmcman
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
By 2010 JAL will retire all there 747 classic and turn there 744 into freighters, So why they do not order 747-8I. With 747-8I JAL could still give there passenger 747 service, with the good things of a modern jet.

The 777 can fly to JL routes and save money due it being more efficient and it's lower weight as this is operators at Japanese airports are are charged.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 4):
JAL has no money and...will have a tough enough time keeping themselves out of default come September so new big airplanes are probably off the radar screen for a while at least.

Do you think they will take delivery of their 787's on schedule, or defer them?
 
TKV
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
By 2010 JAL will retire all there 747 classic and turn there 744 into freighters

All of the 774 ?? beginning 2010, ending when ??

The B767, B777 amd B787 ordered are for substitution of the 747 classic and the A300. they are
nor enough for the B774, which are not so old

As for the N787 payment, I understand the the financing is assured, can you confirm this ??

TKV
 
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airbuseric
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
By 2010 JAL will retire all there 747 classic and turn there 744 into freighters,

Nope. Not all 744 will become freighters. Only 6 frames are planned to be converted, of which 3 are already flying as such. A couple of 742F's are being replaced by 763F's (first is already in service) to operate the Asian cargoservices.
A whole bunch of 744's will go to EG (full charter-company of JL) to replace their 743's, which are still in service.

Quoting BritJap (Reply 3):
In 2006 JAL changed from 747 to 777 on their European routes, and were able to achieve ten percent cost reductions.

NRT-FCO, NRT-MXP, and about half of the NRT-AMS flights are still served by 744's.
Additionally some CDG flights are operated by 744 througout the year as well.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Do you think they will take delivery of their 787's on schedule, or defer them?

On schedule, to downgrade some inner-Asian flights as soon as possible to this fuel-efficient aircraft, and save money there.

Most probably, some Japan-Europe flights will also see the B787-8 in the near future. Candidates for this type are:

NGO-CDG
NRT-AMS
NRT-SVO

This will free up some 772's which can be used elsewhere replacing the 744.
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
 
Carpethead
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:41 am

If JL was financially healthy, a 748 order would be likely, but they aren't, and there is no turnaround in sight yet.
Their focus now is to get the 738 to replace the MD80s and the 773ER/788 to replace the 747-classics and older 767s.
Any 748i order would occur beyond 2009.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Do you think they will take delivery of their 787's on schedule, or defer them?

No, they need them to replace the 747-classics and older 767s.
 
widebodyphotog
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Do you think they will take delivery of their 787's on schedule, or defer them?

To be honest it's a small question mark at this point. Their fuel hedges are running out with no cash to renew them and they are getting murdered on jet fuel prices operating 747's internationally and old generation airplanes on regional routes. Their medium term plan calls for keeping some 744's around through 2010 and even keeping A300-600's! JAL needs cash and or credit available to meet their commitments and both are dwindling at this point. JAL will however pull out all the stops to make sure they can complete the 787 integration

JAL has four times the number of employees as NH and getting rid of vast numbers of them will be much harder than anyone can forsee at this point. It's going to take a massive concerted effort to turn things around at JAL but they still have a "number one" mentality so brighter days may be still ahead.



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TKV
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:44 am

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 10):
will however pull out all the stops to make sure they can complete the 787 integration

JAL has four times the number of employees as NH and getting rid of vast numbers of them will be much harder than anyone can forsee at this point. It's going to take a massive concerted effort to turn things around at JAL but they still have a "number one" mentality so brighter days may be still ahead.

 checkmark 

And let's not forget the nationalistic aspect, meaning tthat the goverment and the Keiratsu partners will not allow the aviation symbol of Japan to fail or continue to limp along !! Knowing how this works, they will get the needed funding, possibly beyond the financing or guarantees for the B787, possibly (but not probably) .even short term for some BB748i!

I agree that personnel reduction in Japan, given the paternalistic laboral relations, is a difficuly task, but at least easier now as some years ago!!

TKV
 
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BALandorLivery
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:35 pm

Think there was some talk of frequency rather that capacity....
 
GeorgeJetson
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting TKV (Reply 7):
All of the 774 ?? beginning 2010, ending when ??

The B767, B777 amd B787 ordered are for substitution of the 747 classic and the A300. they are
nor enough for the B774, which are not so old

What's a 774??? I didn’t know Boeing already came out with the 777-400. I guess it can’t possibly be that old if it just came out and I didn’t even know it existed. It’s so difficult to keep up with all these advances in technology nowadays. So will the 777-400 compete with the A350-1000?
Meet George Jetson
 
TKV
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:15 am

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Reply 13):
What's a 774??? I didn’t know Boeing already came out with the 777-400. I guess it can’t possibly be that old if it just came out and I didn’t even know it existed. It’s so difficult to keep up with all these advances in technology nowadays. So will the 777-400 compete with the A350-1000?

I am sorry; it is B744 (B747-400) , not B774 !!

TKV
 
747400sp
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting BritJap (Reply 3):
In 2006 JAL changed from 747 to 777 on their European routes, and were able to achieve ten percent cost reductions. Which is especially important for JAL which is still downsizing and restructuring. JAL president himself has mentioned that by 2010, implementing improvements in their 777, 787 and 737 operations they aim to achieve savings of in excess of £350m (GBP).
JAL are still focusing heavily on cost cutting and returning their business to a healthy situation. I dont think that they will place any VLA orders for a while yet. Maybe not until after the the aircraft in question have entered service for other airlines.

Wow I did not know JAL was having money troubles, to bad. Well let's look on the brite side, at least passenger JAL 747 will be around till 2010.
 
GeorgeJetson
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting TKV (Reply 14):
I am sorry; it is B744 (B747-400) , not B774 !!

And now, I am so dissapointed that I could not find any photos of a super-duper-ultra-stretched Boeing 777-446ERX LOL! Or maybe they'll call it the 777-4 when it does come out, assuming Boeing uses their new model-naming convention as with the 747-8 and the various versions of their 787. If it does come out, they might even skip a few numbers and call it a 777-8 or 777-9. Does anybody know what happened to the 747-5, 747-6 and 747-7???

For many years, I have been fascinated (if not completely obsessed!) by all the different flavors a particular aircraft can have. The Boeing 737 had quite a few: 737-100, -200, -200 Advanced, -200C, -300, -400, -500, -600, -700, -700(ER), -800, -900, -900(ER) and I might have even missed a few others like the BBJ variations. I can't wait for the 737-1000X to come out!!! But unlike with the 747-8, Boeing did not skip numbers with the 737 models.
Meet George Jetson
 
Carpethead
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:26 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 15):
Wow I did not know JAL was having money troubles, to bad. Well let's look on the brite side, at least passenger JAL 747 will be around till 2010.

Unless JL goes belly up, the 744 will be flying deep into the 2010s. Its the 747-classics that will be gone by 2010.
 
zvezda
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:59 pm

JL are transitioning from JumboJets to 777s to 787s in order to raise RASM. It's a good strategy for them. I don't foresee JL placing any more orders for next few years.
 
United Airline
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RE: Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I

Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:43 am

JAL will be fine. But why are they not doing very well?

JAL's B 747-400s will be around for a long time to come. They will not be replaced anytime soon.

When they are in a better shape I guess they will order the B 747-8