lowecur
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AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:35 pm

Interesting to see if Bombardier could pull a coup and beat ERJ out of this nice order. Did ERJ ever get that $2B order from Paramount?

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2007/08/02/afx3979841.html
 
foxxray
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:04 pm

Official announcement will be on August 5 !
Big chance to see an Embraer order...
 
F27Friendship
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:11 pm

I'm very curious into what it will turn out..

I'm guessing these will all be used by Air France, as KLM's and Fokkers are still in good shape and they are not too happy about either Embraer or Bombardier designs..
 
CRJ900X
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:28 pm

Hey all,

As much as I would like to see some KLM aircraft livery painted on the CRJ900 and CRJ1000, I think this is an order that has already been captured by Embraer. KLM Cityhopper is apparently taking delivery of three EMB-190's that were originally ordered by Regional (France).

Source: CH Aviation

http://www.ch-aviation.ch/news.php News Section for 29/07/2007

Cheers,

CRJ900X
 
ctrl_alt_del
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:29 pm

Rekkof lurking somewhere?
 
kappel
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:31 pm

Quoting Lowecur (Thread starter):
Interesting to see if Bombardier could pull a coup and beat ERJ out of this nice order. Did ERJ ever get that $2B order from Paramount?

To be honest, I think BBD has the edge, because they can offer props as well as jets, thus be able to offer a nice package deal. KLM previously stated that they would consider replacing the F70 with a turboprop, and given the speed of the Q400 it would be the perfect replacement of the F70 IMHO. And to add to that some CRJ1000's to replace the F100's and their set. I wonder if they are considering the ATR72 though...

OTOH, a KLM spokesman has denied that any such order is imminent.

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=21398 (Dutch only, sorry)
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
PHKLM
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 2):
KLM's and Fokkers are still in good shape and they are not too happy about either Embraer or Bombardier designs..

So that's why the dispatch reliability of the Fokker fleet is abysmal and KLM invited Embraer over to AMS to show the capabilities of the E190?
The Fokker fleet will have to be replaced, and I know word is this will not be done until "a proper" replacement is available, it would make a lot of sense if AF and KL jointly go for the E-jets.

Quoting CRJ900X (Reply 3):
KLM Cityhopper is apparently taking delivery of three EMB-190's that were originally ordered by Regional (France).

That would be awesome news!
 
PHKLM
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 1):
Official announcement will be on August 5 !
Big chance to see an Embraer order...

On a sunday? August 9th would be a logical choice, as the company presents its Q1 results for the bookyear 2007-2008.
 
kappel
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting CRJ900X (Reply 3):
KLM Cityhopper is apparently taking delivery of three EMB-190's that were originally ordered by Regional (France).

Is it possible that this is temporary? Of course, a mix of E-jets and Q400's would be nice too.
L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
 
hardiwv
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:44 pm

Quoting CRJ900X (Reply 3):
I think this is an order that has already been captured by Embraer.

Agree 100%. A KLM team even visited Embraer's HQ in São José dos Campos, Brazil a few months ago.

It is high time for KLM do replace its old Fokker fleet.

Rgs,
 
FlySSC
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:54 pm

See :
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3424279

May 2007, I was writing :

Following the outstanding order of B777 & A32X announced by AF-KLM CEO Jean-Cyril Spinetta, Air France should announce soon another order.

Just read it yesterday :

After the ERJ190 to replace the F100, Air France is now searching a replacement for the F70, as the retirement of the F70 will leave a gap in the seat capacity offered by its regional subsidiary Regional Airline, between the 50 seats of the EMB145 and the 100 seats of the ERJ190.

It is said in the article that AF is evaluating the ERJ170 and the Bombardier Dash Q-400 for a 70 seater.
The ERJ170 has the advantage to offer commonality with the rest of the fleet and particularly the ER190, while the Dash 8 Q-400, as a turboprop, is cheaper to operate.
The answer will be given soon ....

Personally, I think they will go for the ERJ170.

That could be a good indication for KLM future regional fleet renewal plan, as part of the rationalization of AF and KL fleet.


[Edited 2007-08-02 16:22:02]
 
OHLHD
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:10 pm

Having criticised the CRJ's recently I have to admit that the CRJ900 is a real great and comfortable aircraft. However I do believe that they will go for the EMB's.  Smile


How many frames are we talking about?
 
greggarious
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:32 pm

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 11):
How many frames are we talking about?

According to the Forbes article, at least 20 frames, +20 or so options. Exciting news!
 
haggis79
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:12 am

well, for AFs side if those planes are for Régional I guess the E-Jets are the most logical choice.... wouldn't make much sense to operate the CR7 and CR9 side-by-side with ER4s and E90s....
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
airbuster
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:12 pm

As mentioned before...the klm fokker replacemant is only applicable to the F100's...the F70 and 50 will remain in the fleet for at least 3 more years and KLC is receiving 5 ex Regional F70 in the near future.

The word within the company is out that it will be the E-190 as the CRJ lacks cargo capacity.

Also it is not yet sure if this will immediatly replace aircraft or just expand the exisiting fleet. Furthermore Regional already flys with the E-190 so my opinion is that they contacted Bombardier to get the Embrear deal at a better price.

rgds

AB
FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
 
hardiwv
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:00 pm

Quoting Airbuster (Reply 14):
The word within the company is out that it will be the E-190 as the CRJ lacks cargo capacity.

It makes sense. As I said in my previous email, a KLM team visited Embraer HQ in Brazil recently. It is almost 100% finfished deal that it will be the E-190.

Rgs
 
columba
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:15 pm

Quoting Kappel (Reply 5):
KLM previously stated that they would consider replacing the F70 with a turboprop, and given the speed of the Q400 it would be the perfect replacement of the F70 IMHO.

That would be awesome. The Q400 in KLM colors would look fantastic and it would be different from all theEjet, A32x and 737 type aircraft that you see nowadays on our airports.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
F27Friendship
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:18 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
It makes sense. As I said in my previous email, a KLM team visited Embraer HQ in Brazil recently. It is almost 100% finfished deal that it will be the E-190.

I think this is the most obvious, as Air France already operates Embraers and Bombardiers are basically inferior aircraft, nailed together 1950's style..

Allthough, aren't the embraers a lot noisier than the Fokkers? This is ofcourse a big issue for Schiphol..

Quoting Airbuster (Reply 14):
The word within the company is out that it will be the E-190 as the CRJ lacks cargo capacity

Which again underlines, there are no proper subtitutes for the Fokker-100 and Fokker-70 at the moment..
 
varig md-11
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:27 pm

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 1):
as KLM's and Fokkers are still in good shape

I don't know why this insistance about Fokkers supposedly in good shape....the last time I flew a KL Fokker 100 from AMS to TLS the armrest of my seat was hold with rubber tape!!! and I am NOT exagerating
also environment wise they are very noisy and the old generation RR engines drinks and pollutes more
not to mention dispatch problems: a friend of mine comutes between AMS and North of England and there are always problems
would be such a relief to see some Embraer
AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE LI TN
 
hardiwv
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:33 pm

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 18):
I don't know why this insistance about Fokkers supposedly in good shape....the last time I flew a KL Fokker 100 from AMS to TLS the armrest of my seat was hold with rubber tape!!! and I am NOT exagerating
also environment wise they are very noisy and the old generation RR engines drinks and pollutes more
not to mention dispatch problems: a friend of mine comutes between AMS and North of England and there are always problems
would be such a relief to see some Embraer

Agree 100%...

Rgs,
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:57 pm

Quoting CTRL_ALT_DEL (Reply 4):
Rekkof lurking somewhere?

Negative. That case is closed.

Cheers!  wave 
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
mauriceb
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:27 pm

Actually KLM didn't planned to replace the F-100's so early, but due to lots op complaint, and some maintenance issues, they decided to go for the EMB-190, instead of waiting for a plane wich probably will never be build (rekkof). Not so long ago KLM say'd that they wanted to replace the F-50 first with either the Q-400 or ATR-72, but now they have given the F-100 the priority to be replaced first.

The KLC fleet will be either EMB-190's/Q-400's or EMB-190's/EMB-170's, as KLM already stated that they wanted to go to 2 types instead of 3 in the future

[Edited 2007-08-03 11:30:15]
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:34 pm

Today's Telegraaf says that the order will be for 40 E190s



(Dutch only) http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6...t_40_nieuwe_cityhoppers.html?p=2,1
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
mauriceb
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:39 pm

Quote:
Today's Telegraaf says that the order will be for 40 E190s

that's what i sayd lol

[Edited 2007-08-03 11:39:50]
 
varig md-11
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:51 pm

the order would allow KL to, quote de Telegraaf, "einde maken aan vertragingen en annuleringen van vluchten met ondermeer de Fokker 100"
meaning "put an end to all delayed and cancelled flights done with Fokker 100"

so indeed this is not just out of my mind that the Fokkers are worn out!

otherwise, I find it great that the AF/KL regional fleet is going to be common: again a new source of savings and of solid future for the group
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hardiwv
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:03 pm

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 24):
"einde maken aan vertragingen en annuleringen van vluchten met ondermeer de Fokker 100"
meaning "put an end to all delayed and cancelled flights done with Fokker 100"

Better late than never...

The E190s are an urgent addition to KLM fleet. Fantastic news!

Rgs,
 
cricket
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:23 pm

Quoting Lowecur (Thread starter):
Did ERJ ever get that $2B order from Paramount?

Expected in mid-August!
A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:14 pm

Hello!

I have been asking around in the last few hours and got some information.

The Fokker 100's are to be replaced first with the EMB-190. Maurice was right, there will be another type added for the replacement of the Fokker 70. As the dispatch problems are mainly with the Fokker 100's, the replacement of the Fokker 70's can be done at a later moment. Currently two contenders are still up and running, the DHC-8-400Q and the EMB-170. It's neck to neck as I understood, with the DHC having the edge due to cheaper operating costs and more flexibility as it is also viable to operate them on thinner routes.

The Fokker 50's are not to be replaced and there are strong rumours that these operations will be outsourced to VLM Airlines which will act like a KLM Regional or something. AF-KLM will not take over VLM as they probably won't get permission from the EU. Instead they will act as a franchise or something. But mind you, these are rumours!

It's also rumoured that KLM Cityhopper is to take over all Air France Regional flights, but this rumour is false according to the Dutch newspaper article in the Telegraaf mentioned earlier.

Cheers!  wave 
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
Clydenairways
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:46 pm

How about the new Sukoi Jet, much newer technology than the EMB 190???
 
lowecur
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:28 pm

Quoting Clydenairways (Reply 28):
How about the new Sukoi Jet, much newer technology than the EMB 190???

It's taken Embraer 3+ years to finally get the 170-190 avionic bugs somewhat ironed out. I think the dispatch rate is now starting to become viable. How many airlines feel comfortable about dealing with a Russian mfg that has very little history in dealing with the West? Add that on top of the questionable leadership in Russia and that should leave enough skepticism to relagate the Sukoi to an afterthought at this point in time.
 
HECA
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:03 pm

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 27):
The Fokker 100's are to be replaced first with the EMB-190.

When will we see these new EMB-190s arriving for KLC?
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Heavierthanair
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:07 am

G'day

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=21415

Per this site 20 Embraer jets were ordered, 10 each for AF Régional and for KLM Citypopper with options for another 18 of various models.

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:10 am

G'day,

More details here:

http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...sNews/idUKL0384340320070803?rpc=44

Quote:
The order consists of six 75-seat E170 jets and four E190 jets for Regional, and 10 E190 planes for KLM Cityhopper. The airline group also placed an option for 18 more jets.

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
larspl
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting HECA (Reply 30):
When will we see these new EMB-190s arriving for KLC?

first one august 2008, 10 will be phased in by 2010
facebook.com/ddaclassicairlines
 
columba
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 27):
. It's neck to neck as I understood, with the DHC having the edge due to cheaper operating costs and more flexibility as it is also viable to operate them on thinner routes.

Yay, I am hoping for the DHC 8, it is a great aircraft.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
EA772LR
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 22):
Today's Telegraaf says that the order will be for 40 E190s


That looks great!
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
KL577
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 31):
http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=21415

Per this site 20 Embraer jets were ordered, 10 each for AF Régional and for KLM Citypopper with options for another 18 of various models.

Luchtvaartnieuws.nl is reporting that KLM Cityhopper (I guess citypopper was a typo?) will replace the 15 oldest F100s, with 10 E-190s and 5 F70s. So where are these F70s coming from?
 
jwenting
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting Kappel (Reply 5):
KLM previously stated that they would consider replacing the F70 with a turboprop

And they've also stated that they want an all-jet fleet and do away with all turboprops.

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 17):
Which again underlines, there are no proper subtitutes for the Fokker-100 and Fokker-70 at the moment..

yah. The E190 is really a bit too big, especially to replace the F70. CRJ would make more sense to replace that one if they want something with the same seat capacity.
But maybe the plan is to increase capacity at the same time as replacing the aircraft.
I wish I were flying
 
Beaucaire
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:00 am

So that's the official end of all potential Rekkof revival rumours then....
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
petertenthije
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting KL577 (Reply 36):
So where are these F70s coming from?

Air France Regional


PH-... F70 11540 F-GLIS
PH-... F70 11541 F-GLIT
PH-... F70 11543 F-GLIU
PH-... F70 11556 F-GLIV
PH-... F70 11558 F-GLIX
Attamottamotta!
 
paneuropean
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting KL577 (Reply 36):
Luchtvaartnieuws.nl is reporting that KLM Cityhopper (I guess citypopper was a typo?) will replace the 15 oldest F100s, with 10 E-190s and 5 F70s. So where are these F70s coming from?

According to luchtvaartnieuws, KLC is also receiving 10 E 190's from AF regional. Either this is a mistake, or are they receiving those ten aircraft before receiving the brand new metal ?
 
paneuropean
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:10 am

Quoting Paneuropean (Reply 40):
According to luchtvaartnieuws, KLC is also receiving 10 E 190's from AF regional. Either this is a mistake, or are they receiving those ten aircraft before receiving the brand new metal ?

Sorry, I misread the sentence in the article. It's in Dutch, however it was confusing. It only considers the Fokkers
 
F27Friendship
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:34 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 38):
So that's the official end of all potential Rekkof revival rumours then....

I guess that finally puts that topic to rest..
 
CRJ900
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 13):
well, for AFs side if those planes are for Régional I guess the E-Jets are the most logical choice.... wouldn't make much sense to operate the CR7 and CR9 side-by-side with ER4s and E90s....

AF regional carrier Brit Air is a big CRJ operator, including 15 x CRJ700. Brit Air is also one of the launch customers for the CRJ1000, with 8 on firm order and options for 8 more. With this EMB order, the French skies will se a lot of variety over the next years, then...  Smile
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
hardiwv
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:21 pm

Now is official:

http://www.embraer.com.br/institucio...Com-VPC-Airfrance_klm_190-I-07.pdf

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 38):
So that's the official end of all potential Rekkof revival rumours then....

100% correct. I always treated it more as a "dream" than anything else, mainly made by some Fokker-related ex-employees. It was complete nonsense. Rekkof would never be able to compete with embraer or bombardier.

Rgs,
 
LifelinerOne
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:59 pm

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 37):
And they've also stated that they want an all-jet fleet and do away with all turboprops.

Yeah, they said that at first. But, as I said they are seriously looking at the DHC-8-400. The DHC-8-400 will be able to operate on routes previously operated by the Fokker 50 and 70 and can do so cheaper. And, because it's cheaper to operate than the EMB-170, KLC can run it on thinner KLC routes also, still making it a profitable flight. Eventually I think KLC will operate the EMB-190 and EMB-170. The smallest routes will be outsourced to say VLM. However, if this doesn't happen, I see a fleet of EMB-190, EMB-170 and DHC-8-400.

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 42):
I guess that finally puts that topic to rest..

Yeah, I think so to. Or they are to replace the Fokker 70's with new Fokker 70NG from Rekkof, but I don't believe it (anymore).

Cheers!  wave 
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
F27Friendship
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 45):
Yeah, I think so to. Or they are to replace the Fokker 70's with new Fokker 70NG from Rekkof, but I don't believe it (anymore).

I talked to Rekkof's chief-engineer Rudi den Hartog (who also works for Fokker Services next to his Rekkof affiliation) some months ago and I believe he then said the decision moment would be in may. It's august now, so I guess it's finally over..

[Edited 2007-08-05 18:00:11]
 
planemaker
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RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:48 am

I just want to let those Rekkof/Fokker fans who heaped abuse on me over the years for suggesting that the Rekkof project would never see the light of day, that I accept your gracious apologies for being so wrong (particularily Aviopic who descended to name calling and said that KLM would NEVER fly an E-jet!)  Big grin
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
keesje
Posts: 8592
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:08 am

I think this reflects the current situation.

KLM and Lufthansa and many others looked at 100-120 seaters, looked at Doniers 728, Bomabardiers C-series, the Boeing 717, Rekkofs F100NG, the Sukhoi, and also at the Embraer 190/195. Now each of these had their smaller and bigger flaws & uncertainties.

As I expected for KLM for more then 5 yrs : it's hard to select if you have no choice.

Embraer gambled on won. The Brasilian government even so.

Don't expect great discounts from those folks, they know the marketsituation too.

http://www.virtualcol.com/galeria/DSC02449-2.jpg

The 190 is proving the champ within the 170/175/190/195 Embraer family.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters

Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 48):
The Brasilian government even so.

Just FYI, the Brazilian government did not fund any of the $1-billion E-jet development. It was all internal and private sector funds.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein

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