upperdeckfan
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

IB To JNB

Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:40 am

Wondering why IB flies to JNB instead of other destinations in the Americas, these are my thoughts

1. Little premium traffic since there are few business ties between both countries.
2. Almost no connecting oportunities out of JNB (just domestic and neighbor countries)
3. Non stop service from JNB by AF, LH, BA who all offer wider network than IB to connect onward.
4. No VFR traffic at all.
5. Two aircraft rotation since it's a red eye both ways. A343 sitting on the tarmac at JNB more than 10 hours

Based on the above I doubt IB can make profit of such a route, also think thay can get better fleet utilization using these 2 A343's to expand US/LatAm where most of destinations can be covered by just one a/c.

Any thoughts to share? Actual loads?
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BBADXB
Posts: 777
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 11:13 pm

RE: IB To JNB

Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:47 am

I have the impression that there's a lot of Portuguese-born people in South Africa and that maybe they fly on IB via MAD. TAP flies to JNB too, although with a stop at Maputo on some flights.
Could it be that people flying on IB connect onwards to North America and the rest of Europe, thus making the flight somewhat profitable? Moreover, there are a lot of African immigrants in Spain, and maybe some of these people come from southern parts of Africa on IB, although I highly doubt the profitability of this traffic.

BBADXB
 
IAD380
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:34 am

RE: IB To JNB

Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:57 am

IB has been flying to JNB for many years, and it has gradually increased the number of times it flies there each week. Although I don't know the load factors and yields for this route, I am under the impression it performs well enough for IB to maintain it. Spain is now a rich and prosperous country, and perhaps South Africa has emerged as a destination for Spanish tourists, the same way it is popular with other European travellers. Maybe there is enough demand for flights between Southern Europe and JNB, so passengers don't have to head north to FRA, CDG, LHR or AMS to catch a flight south. Please remember that there are no longer any direct flights from Italy to JNB.
 
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LHRBFSTrident
Posts: 557
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:38 pm

RE: IB To JNB

Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:28 am

I flew IB back from JNB in March to MAD and BCN - I got on this flight as part of a cheap fare from Orbitz issued on SA)">DL ticket stock (in case you're interested: JFK-CDG(AF), CDG-JNB(SA), JNB-MAD-BCN(IB), BCN-JFK(DL))

The flight was packed solid, loads of Castillian Spanish speakers - and loads of central American Spanish speakers too - complete with luggage labelled for MEX, SJO, GUA etc

J loads must've been light because I was upgraded (probably by dint of AAdvantage Gold status, as my fare class certainly didn't qualify for automatic upgrade!) but every seat on Y was taken.

I have no specific yield information, but it seems like IB is the discount carrier from Europe to RSA, and the route is certainly not the premium class money-spinner it is for BA (where JNB was 'rumoured' among the crews to be the #2 highest yielding route after LAX, that info came from their station briefing sheet, IIRC)

I am inclined to think that RSA is a destination for Spanish tourists - everyone is in to Wine, Gold, Diamonds and Big Game it seems, not just the former colonial powers!

I tend to think that OA's route to JNB is oddball in much the same as you are questioning IB
 
JoKeR
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:34 pm

RE: IB To JNB

Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:31 am

From my understanding IB's flight between JNB and MAD are doing pretty well, with many transits and onward connections through MAD to LHR, JFK, FRA, CDG, LIS, MXP, FCO etc.

Some tourists on the route too (both ways), but also VFR
 
JoKeR
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:34 pm

RE: IB To JNB

Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 3):

I tend to think that OA's route to JNB is oddball in much the same as you are questioning IB

Plenty of Greeks in South Africa... Cypriots as well!

The OA flight are also routinely used by other E. Europeans who connect onto SOF, BEG, OTP etc...

OA also enjoys many transit pax to LHR via ATH as well as to BEY.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5293
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: IB To JNB

Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:42 am

do not forget, the latin-american connections they can offer...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
pzurita1
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:21 am

RE: IB To JNB

Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:56 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 6):
do not forget, the latin-american connections they can offer...

I do not see many Latin American connections.
Let's think only in Mexico, Central America and northern South America (Colombia and Venezuela). The rest of the continent would travel preferabily through GRU with SA or EZE with MH.
May be I am mistaken, but I can see no mre than 3 or 4 pax from these countries in each IB flight to JNB. Though I would like to be proven wrong.

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

RE: IB To JNB

Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:59 pm

Looking at your statements, it seems to me that all of you share my doubts about the profitability of this route.



Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 3):
J loads must've been light because I was upgraded (probably by dint of AAdvantage Gold status, as my fare class certainly didn't qualify for automatic upgrade!) but every seat on Y was taken.

AFAIK IB doesn't award automatic upgrades on long haul no matter the fare or the FF status, you were lucky that Y was overbooked and there were J seats available. You are right, selection is based on FF status, but if J isn't overbooked you can be platinum with a Y fare and you fly Y.
744,742,741,772,773,762,763,732,735,738,739,752,722,717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,M88,310,319,320,321,332,333, 343,346,388,L1011,CR2,CR9,CR10,E190,ATR42,DSH8
 
Clydenairways
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:27 am

RE: IB To JNB

Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:33 pm

Well i know for a fact that they get a lot of connections from Dublin. It makes sense as it's on the way south rather than flying east to get a connection. but i think the main reason is competitave fares. Sometimes though AF or other carriers can be cheaper depending on who is doing a promotion at a particular time.

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