werdywerd
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:40 am

HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:11 pm

Last i recieved in an IROP e-mail is that there is a ground stop at HPN due to an aircraft that landed with a collapsed nose landing gear. I guess everyone made it out ok.

***************************************************

Small plane in distress above Westchester County Airport; two people on board
By NICOLE NEROULIAS
THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original publication: August 3, 2007)

WHITE PLAINS - Emergency crews are responding to reports of a plane in distress above Westchester County Airport.

The small twin-engine private plane, a Piaggio P180, is having trouble with its landing gear, said John Starace, airport operations manager. Two people are on board, he said.

"It cannot be locked down at the moment," he said. "They're trying to lock it down. We've activated an emergency response."

Firefighters will be standing by as the plane attempts to fix the problem and land, Starace said.

The emergency was reported shortly after 8 a.m. today.

Check back for updates at LoHud.com.

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/p...70803/NEWS01/708030419/1019/NEWS03
 
werdywerd
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:40 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:14 pm

The aircraft belongs to General Aviation

http://www.gaservingamerica.org/how_work/work_aircraft.htm
 
User avatar
CV990A
Posts: 1417
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 6:04 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:58 pm

It looks like it was this guy-
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VNR103

Any clue as to the Reg #?
Kittens Give Morbo Gas
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5773
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:15 am

AvantAir, Inc has three P-180's registered - N113SL, N128SL and N163SL

However N103SL is registered to "J & B Air LLC c/o AvantAir Inc"

Based on the way the flight number is configured I'd say the odds are high it was N103SL

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0669168

A Flight Options Beechjet 400 landed at 0738, this aircraft landed at 0740 and a Mooney 20 landed at 0748.

Minimal runway disruption - JBU591 departed at 0806 - only 11 minutes later than scheduled.

[Edited 2007-08-03 17:22:30]
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:17 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:32 am

Just because the gear isn't locking or showing that it's locked down doesn't mean it's a gear up landing. The crash team was standing by in case the gear collapsed when they landed.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
werdywerd
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:40 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:40 am

I got an IROP email here at work stating "HPN is closed due to a gear up landing. It will take about 2 hours to remove the aircraft from the runway. Flights to HPN will be diverted to SWF until HPN is re-opened."
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5773
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:06 am

Don't doubt you got the e-mail - but flight tracking data shows aircraft at HPN landing and taking off normally all morning.

08-03 07:04 PDT4267 DH8A Departed to PHL
08-03 07:18 N350NY B350 Departed to ALB
08-03 07:22 EGF431 E145 Departed to ORD
08-03 07:26 ASQ719 CRJ2 Departed to ATL
08-03 07:31 EJA932 C750 Departed to TEB
08-03 07:32 CGKPP H25B Arrived from CYUL
08-03 07:37 N450DW BE30 Arrived from LEB Departed to CYYZ 08-03 07:57
08-03 07:37 BLOCKED XXXX Departed to BHM
08-03 07:38 OPT785 BE40 Arrived from BHB Departed to ACK 08-03 10:16
08-03 07:40 VNR103 P180 Arrived from TEB *** "Accident aircraft***
08-03 07:48 N6468U MO20 Arrived from CON
08-03 07:54 FWK78 PC12 Arrived from SLK
08-03 07:55 N636B BE20 Arrived from RDG Departed to BUF 08-03 09:57
08-03 07:57 N450DW BE30 Departed to CYYZ
08-03 07:59 ECJ21 LJ35 Arrived from ABE
08-03 08:06 JBU591 A320 Departed to MCO
08-03 08:09 SKW5817 CRJ2 Departed to ORD
08-03 08:18 TN900HD F900 Arrived from PNE
08-03 08:24 OPT478 BE40 Arrived from FRG
08-03 08:25 LXJ506 CL30 Arrived from SLK
08-03 08:36 N280ND PA28 Arrived from BED
08-03 08:37 N1881Q FA20 Arrived from ITH
08-03 08:45 GGN7418 B190 Arrived from CYYZ
08-03 09:01 EJA576 C56X Arrived from MVY
08-03 09:23 EJA923 C750 Arrived from ACK
08-03 09:25 N601AD CL60 Departed to BDL
08-03 09:26 EGF420 E135 Arrived from ORD
08-03 09:41 BLOCKED XXXX Arrived from MEM
08-03 09:43 UCA8710 DH8B Arrived from KCLE
08-03 09:43 OPT715 BE40 Arrived from PQI
08-03 09:46 TAG477 H25B Departed to CAK
08-03 09:47 N1379G C340 Departed to PWK
08-03 09:54 FWK78 PC12 Departed to MVY
08-03 09:57 N636B BE20 Departed to BUF
08-03 10:01 FIV541 C56X Departed to FRG

[Edited 2007-08-03 18:13:02]
 
Mir
Posts: 19163
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 6):
Don't doubt you got the e-mail - but flight tracking data shows aircraft at HPN landing and taking off normally all morning.

Possible that the Avanti landed on 11/29 so that 16/34 was still usable?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
arffdude
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:07 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
Possible that the Avanti landed on 11/29 so that 16/34 was still usable?

-Mir

Why would we have an emergency airraft land on our shortest runway?
 
GPIARFF
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:36 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:59 am

Quoting ARFFdude (Reply 8):
Why would we have an emergency airraft land on our shortest runway?

I don't know about this incident but when we have GA aircraft with gear or other problems land at FCA (GPI) at the Pilots discretion we will have them use the smaller runway to potentially avoid taking our main runway out of service. Again it's at the pilots discretion but I would say 50% choose to land on the shorter one, and theres always plenty of room still.
Pa chiye ladan dlo ou bwe ( don't crap in your drinking water )
 
corey07850
Posts: 2335
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:33 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:07 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 3):
AvantAir, Inc has three P-180's registered - N113SL, N128SL and N163SL

Not sure of the exact number but Avantair operates the largest fleet of P180's in the world... wayyyy more than 3
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5773
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:10 pm

That's how many are registered in their name with the FAA. However, I'm sure many others are registered as this aircraft apparently was - in the name of the primary owner or owners, with Avantair as the operator.

I've been able to get good looks inside and out of a couple of their Avanti's at Addison.

Fantastic aircraft !!!
 
blueskies8
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:32 pm

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:39 pm

I really doubt that they landed on the short runway. These pilots are professionals and would not likely minimize their safety to keep a runway open. If they did land with the gear up or partially it would be easy, especially at an airport like HPN, to jack up the aircraft, move it off the runway, check for debris and reopen the runway. TEB has stuff like this happen much more frequently and the runway is rarely closed for an extended period of time. Just my thoughts.
 
jogales
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:11 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:54 am

It landed on RWY 16 with the gear completely retracted. They were having issues with the right main gear, and company procedures called for a gear up landing.

Josh
-
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7075
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting Jogales (Reply 13):
They were having issues with the right main gear, and company procedures called for a gear up landing.

Good call, hopefully it will not be written off. Glad everything went smooth.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
jfktowerfan
Crew
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2001 12:58 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:15 am

C'mon Man
 
klm672
Posts: 2515
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 6:09 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:17 am

yeah, I was there. We had to circle around and they closed the airport for about two hours to get everything sorted out. Looked kinda weird.
 
blueskies8
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:32 pm

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:18 am

Quoting Jogales (Reply 13):
It landed on RWY 16 with the gear completely retracted. They were having issues with the right main gear, and company procedures called for a gear up landing.

Most manufacturers recommend a gear up landing when one of the mains will not extend. The airframe can take it and it is better than going off into the pucker brush that would most certainly happen with only one main down. By the looks of the picture it was a well executed landing.
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:21 am

avantair has been having some serious trouble with gear ups recently
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
blueskies8
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:32 pm

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 18):
avantair has been having some serious trouble with gear ups recently

Well then Piaggio is having a lot of trouble with gear ups. I haven't heard of any other Avantair incidents. Are they having a lot of gear issues and this is the only one that required a gear up?
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting Blueskies8 (Reply 19):
Well then Piaggio is having a lot of trouble with gear ups. I haven't heard of any other Avantair incidents. Are they having a lot of gear issues and this is the only one that required a gear up?

They had another one where the gear collapsed after landing. As a result currently only Captains can land the aircraft when pax are on board or when flying into a large metro area.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
blueskies8
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:32 pm

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:52 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 20):
They had another one where the gear collapsed after landing. As a result currently only Captains can land the aircraft when pax are on board or when flying into a large metro area.

If the gear is going to collapse because of issues with the gear, it will happen regardless of who's flying. If this is a case of hard landings the I can understand the reason for the Captains landing the aircraft but I have no idea what metro airports have to do with this.
 
SWA TPA
Posts: 1454
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 6:10 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting Blueskies8 (Reply 21):
If the gear is going to collapse because of issues with the gear, it will happen regardless of who's flying. If this is a case of hard landings the I can understand the reason for the Captains landing the aircraft but I have no idea what metro airports have to do with this.

APFPilot1985 is correct with their statement. The poor F/O's are basically radio operators anymore it seems  Sad
This was a result of N128SL gear collapse upon landing in either FLL or PBI earlier this year, I cant remember which airport. I think it was FLL though.

SWA TPA
I believe I can fly.....
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:35 am

Quoting SWA TPA (Reply 22):
This was a result of N128SL gear collapse upon landing in either FLL or PBI earlier this year, I cant remember which airport. I think it was FLL though.

It was FLL. According to most of the VNR captains I have talked to this policy is very leniently enforced.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
SWA TPA
Posts: 1454
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 6:10 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 23):
It was FLL. According to most of the VNR captains I have talked to this policy is very leniently enforced.

I hope so. I know a lot of the VNR guys but I have never really asked about it.

SWA TPA
I believe I can fly.....
 
blueskies8
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:32 pm

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:45 pm

Quoting SWA TPA (Reply 22):
The poor F/O's are basically radio operators anymore it seems

That is too bad. This is quite common in the corporate world and I thought that Avantair was more of a fractional airline. This sort of policy can make the upgrade transition more difficult as these pilots haven't had as much time with the stick.
 
CFIjames
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:39 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:14 am

The last 6 replies are all False.
This was a policy for a few weeks following the incident at FLL but has since been changed.
There are 3 simple rules for making a perfect landing every time. Its a shame that no one knows what they are.
 
blueskies8
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 12:32 pm

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:27 am

Quoting Cfijames (Reply 26):
The last 6 replies are all False.

Bold statement. All false or partially false. The Avantair part may be but there is more there then just talk of the policy. And who's to say that your reply isn't false?
 
SWA TPA
Posts: 1454
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 6:10 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:48 am

When I left Avantair in April the policy was still in effect. I cannot say if it still is though. Next time I talk to one of the Avantair pilots I will try and remember to ask them if this is still the case.

SWA TPA
I believe I can fly.....
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:30 pm

Quoting Cfijames (Reply 26):
The last 6 replies are all False.This was a policy for a few weeks following the incident at FLL but has since been changed.

I talk to them on an almost daily basis and they all have still said it is in effect.
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
SWA TPA
Posts: 1454
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 6:10 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:12 am

I just asked one of the Avantair captains and he said the rule is indeed still in effect.

SWA TPA
I believe I can fly.....
 
bond007
Posts: 4425
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting Blueskies8 (Reply 17):
Most manufacturers recommend a gear up landing when one of the mains will not extend. The airframe can take it and it is better than going off into the pucker brush that would most certainly happen with only one main down

Yeah, I watched a King Air land with the left main unlocked (known at the time), and it still landed with the other wheels down and locked. I don't know if there was a problem retracting the gear, but it wasn't a pretty landing. The aircraft immediately veered off the runway and almost hit a hangar... it was more luck than skill that nobody was injured. A gear up landing would have been much safer ... like I said, there may have been an issue with retraction that I wasn't aware of.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
CFIjames
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:39 am

RE: HPN Gear Up Landing This Morning

Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:05 am

Well I still work there and that policy is no longer in effect.
What they DO have is FO's can only fly unoccupied legs. (basically every other flight)
Until they have 125 hours, they can only land at airports longer than 5000ft. (most airports we go in to)
After 250 hours, they can fly all legs.

Nothing about "metro" areas.
Hardly "just radio operators".
There are 3 simple rules for making a perfect landing every time. Its a shame that no one knows what they are.

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