avianca707359b
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Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:07 am

Take a look at this piece of brilliant writing:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...07/08/03/et-a380-vs-dreamliner.xml

Fair use excepts:

"...the next generation of so-called superjumbos......both the European Airbus A380 and the American Boeing 787 Dreamliner..."
Since when is the 787 a Superjumbo?

"Airbus A380 - Total on order 178"
"Boeing 787 Dreamliner - Total on order 235"
WTF???? He compares the A380's total orders since launch to the B787's orders for 2007 only!

"Number of passengers: Airbus A380 - up to 474 in test cabin. Boeing 787 Dreamliner - 210-250"
I guess the 787-3 or 787-9 don't count!

"Main Innovations: Airbus A380 - very quiet on takeoff and landing"
And then what, very noisy during flight? This is what he considers the "Main Innovation" about the A380?

Laughable. Simply laughable.
In Memory of HK-1402 "Sucre" & HK-1410 "Bolivar"
 
Lumberton
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:17 am

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
Boeing 787 Dreamliner - Total on order 235"

I saw this earlier. It is absolutely pathetic what passes for journalism and "facts".
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
ikramerica
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
And then what, very noisy during flight? This is what he considers the "Main Innovation" about the A380?

Actually, I can't think of any other true innovation for the A380. It's bigger, but no cutting edge except for the amazing quietness for it's size (inside and out).

474 seats is laughable if you compare it to 210-250 seats for the 788. With the 474 seat product put into the 788, it would seat 180 pax max.

But I guess if Oprah calls the 767 a jumbo, then the slightly larger 788 is a super jumbo...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
legoguy
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
both the European Airbus A380 and the American Boeing 787 Dreamliner..."



Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
"Airbus A380 - Total on order 178"
"Boeing 787 Dreamliner - Total on order 235"

Perhap's he ment the 747-8 but ended up writing down and researching the wrong aircraft.
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
zvezda
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 S

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:36 am

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
Since when is the 787 a Superjumbo?

Since when is anything other than a 747 a Jumbo?

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
He compares the A380's total orders since launch to the B787's orders for 2007 only!

No excuse for that error. That's just carelessness.

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
"Number of passengers: Airbus A380 - up to 474 in test cabin. Boeing 787 Dreamliner - 210-250"
I guess the 787-3 or 787-9 don't count!

This one is a little easier to forgive. It represents a lack of thoroughness, rather than abject carelessness.

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
"Main Innovations: Airbus A380 - very quiet on takeoff and landing"
And then what, very noisy during flight? This is what he considers the "Main Innovation" about the A380?

I would agree that reduced noise -- inflight as well as during takeoff and landing -- is the main advance of the WhaleJet. It's the feature I'm looking forward to. It will also be the lowest CASM aircraft for a few years -- beating the 777-300ER by about 15%.
 
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zeke
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 S

Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
Since when is anything other than a 747 a Jumbo?

Dictionary : "Jumbo jet - a very large jet plane", I guess just about everyone in the press calls a A380 THE Superjumbo...

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
It will also be the lowest CASM aircraft for a few years -- beating the 777-300ER by about 15%.

Your friends at EK say 18-22%, would you settle for "about 20%" ?
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
gbfra
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 5):
Dictionary : "Jumbo jet - a very large jet plane", I guess just about everyone in the press calls a A380 THE Superjumbo...

No, not just about everyone. For most of us it is just the A380.
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
SailorOrion
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:02 am

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 6):
For most of us it is just the A380.

Yes, and it's a "she" for me. Even in German.  Smile

SailorOrion
 
F27Friendship
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Actually, I can't think of any other true innovation for the A380.

an all composite wing-box (ofcourse boeing has taken it a lot further with a fully composite aircraft Big grin) , the use of fibre-laminate/metal hybrids (GLARE), the leading edgdes of the wing ( J-Nose )
 
Scorpio
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 5):
I guess just about everyone in the press calls a A380 THE Superjumbo...

...much to the obvious chagrin of the sole lonely soul who stubbornly keeps on trying, to no avail, to push for another nickname, and who stubbornly refuses to call it anything other than that nickname  Wink
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Actually, I can't think of any other true innovation for the A380.

GLARE, electrohydraulic actuators, having T/R's on only half the engines.

Tom.
 
texl1649
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:37 am

Not surprising work for the Telegraph.
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
having T/R's on only half the engines

yes, thats clearly an advancemet....

or a safety defect

or alot of other opinions on that little "fact"
 
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SEPilot
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:09 am

Some online articles include a link to contact the writer, but not the telegraph. I wanted to send a nastygram asking if the writer had ever been on an airliner, or even seen one up close. But they had no such link.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
ikramerica
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 8):
the use of fibre-laminate/metal hybrids (GLARE)

So advanced, that nobody is following suit. It's a cool concept, yes. But I was thinking more of things that will permanently impact the industry. Lower noise is one of those things.

From now on, no new model will be louder than an A380 (at least on the outside). But I also doubt any new model will be made with GLARE...  Wink

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
having T/R's on only half the engines

ROFL. So now a compromise to fit an oversized aircraft on current airfields is an innovation? That's such good spin, you might consider working in our 2008 election cycle for your favorite candidate!
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):

Absolutely pathetic. Dont they check facts before they print this crap anymore?  devil 
One Nation Under God
 
IADCA
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:11 am

I think the best part is that he does cite ANA as the launch customer for the 787, fails to include them in the customer list, and doesn't realize this or think why it might have happened that way. Then his editors fail to notice. I can excuse most of the other stuff as just being written by someone with little knowledge of aviation or the industry, but something as glaring as that error is hard to reconcile.

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):

"Number of passengers: Airbus A380 - up to 474 in test cabin. Boeing 787 Dreamliner - 210-250"
I guess the 787-3 or 787-9 don't count!

I don't think it's unreasonable to use 787-8 stats for the plane, as it's the only version that's actually been built right now. If he had cited seat counts from the proposed A380-900, all the Boeing homers would have flipped out about that plane not existing; I don't see the problem with his decision there.

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 3):
Perhap's he ment the 747-8 but ended up writing down and researching the wrong aircraft.

This is, sadly, the most likely explanation for this article.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 13):
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
having T/R's on only half the engines

ROFL. So now a compromise to fit an oversized aircraft on current airfields is an innovation?

The original design was no T/R's. It wasn't a compromise due to airfield size, it was an eminently sensible design choice. The regulators killed it. Very sad. T/R's are among the worst systems on any commercial aircraft.

Tom.
 
socalfive
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:38 am

Well everybody has to keep something else in mind, this is but one example of how much the press cares about accuracy. How many other things get reported on that we all buy at first glance that we aren't as knowledgeable on? The press is a joke, especially the corporately controlled American Press.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:56 am

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 18):
The press is a joke, especially the corporately controlled American Press.

Why take a dig at the USA? Foreign press is often worse. The BBC is awful, and their own internal audit came to that conclusion, including their anti-US bias. Many other nations flat out censor their news and plant stories, far more than the USA administration is ever accused of.

The press is one of the most corrupt industries in the world, free or otherwise.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:44 am

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
having T/R's on only half the engines.

Hardly an innovation. Wasn't this also the case on the VC-10?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
cobra27
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:07 pm

Some reporters are pathetic. They are only happy when they have something to write. Last time I read our nuclear powerplant produced around 600 mW, not enough for a single lighbulb. And whole world energy consumption in a year was 40 MJ (around 1 liter of diesel). For aviation only well known magazine can be raliable
 
bringiton
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:23 pm

Quoting IADCA (Reply 16):
don't think it's unreasonable to use 787-8 stats for the plane, as it's the only version that's actually been built right now. If he had cited seat counts from the proposed A380-900, all the Boeing homers would have flipped out about that plane not existing; I don't see the problem with his decision there.

Both the 787-9 and 787-3 are for sale and are being activly marketed and guarantees are being given to the customers , the designs have been frozen for the -9 (IIRC) therefore it cannot be compared to the A380-900 which hasnt EVEN BEEN LAUNCHED , DEFINED and is not being activly marketed .
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:03 pm

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 17):
T/R's are among the worst systems on any commercial aircraft.

yes, safety devices suck.
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:21 pm

Sometimes I'm wondering how many guys slamming "the press" actually have a clue about what "the press" or "the media" means? Bashing "the press" after a bad article by one writer is as accurate as bashing the while aviation biz after one bad flight with one bad F/A. Also, I can only laugh about comments on "foreign press" by people who don't even have the language skills to read and rate "foreign press" articles. Get real.  Yeah sure


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:44 pm

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 23):
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 17):
T/R's are among the worst systems on any commercial aircraft.

yes, safety devices suck.

The T/R isn't a safety system. You're not allowed to fly any aircraft with inoperative safety systems.

T/R's are heavy, hard to build, incredibly expensive, maintenance prone, and used for about 10 seconds per cycle. There's probably nothing else on the plane whose cost/return is so high. In the current environment, they are a necessary evil but that doesn't mean the OEM's shouldn't be trying to get rid of them if they can.

Tom.
 
astuteman
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:49 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Actually, I can't think of any other true innovation for the A380

Real-time in-flight diagnostic signalling?
CFRP centre wing box?
Complete CFRP tailcone structure, larger than a 787 section?
22% composite by weight?
Composite fuselage skin panels (even if not CFRP)?
New paradigm in wing-span vs MTOW, which IS being followed by the A350 and 787?
Numerous new high-lift devices?
Electro-hydraulic actuation?
Contra-rotating fan technology?
Etc.
Etc
Etc.

Nobody would argue that some, indeed many, of the technologies incorporated into the A380 will be surpased by the 787 and A350 when they fly, but I find it difficult to imagine that the A380 is anything other than THE most advanced airliner FLYING today, and by a large margin, incorporating heaps of innovations not to be found on any other commercial airliner currently flying.

To label it as "just big" is uncharitable at best, and downright ignorant at worst, (IMO)

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
Since when is anything other than a 747 a Jumbo?

 checkmark 
Presumably that's why the A380 is universally labelled the "Superjumbo"..  Smile

Regards
 
bh4007
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:42 pm

Quoting TexL1649 (Reply 11):
Not surprising work for the Telegraph.

Actually it is. Compared to 90% of British newspapers (think: tabloids!) the Telegraph is very well respected and trusted.

It is fair to say their coverage of the new Boeing and Airbus products has been very poor. They just can't seem to stop comparing the A380 and 787; they have nothing in common apart from time-span. There is absolutely nothing to gain from comparing the two; the airline industry certainly isn't! They should be comparing the 787 to either the 767 or the A350 and the A380 the 747-8i.
 
flyabunch
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:09 pm

Would it be a good idea to invite the members of the press who write aviation articles to join us here on A.net? Maybe a little exposure to all of us aviation crazies would help them with their perspective.

If the writer of the article in question were to read some of the comments in this thread it might make him a little more cautious with the facts next time. Or at least I hope it would.

Mike
 
socalfive
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:01 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 19):
Why take a dig at the USA? Foreign press is often worse.

I take a dig at the USA because I'm an American and very familiar with the American Press. Foreign press as bad or worse? Perhaps, I wouldn't argue that point but I have very limited exposure to any foreign press. But foreign or domestic, we never get the real story anyway, only diversions, distractions, Paris Hilton and the occasional cat in the tree.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story

Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 26):
Contra-rotating fan technology?

RR has had counter-rotating spools for a long time.

Tom.

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