MAH4546
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Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:21 am

Vietnam Airlines has applied with US DOT to begin five weekly flights between Ho Chi Minh City and Los Angeles, via Osaka, effective 28 October 2008. The flights would operate with 777-200ER aircraft:

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf102/481050_web.pdf

In the application, Vietnam Airways also applies for authority to serve Dallas, New York City, San Francisco, and Seattle, and for local traffic routes between the US and Canada, Japan, and Taiwan.

JAL ended Los Angeles-Osaka last fall, which actually means that Vietnam Airlines would be the only airline in this market.
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travelin man
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:32 am

Do Vietnam and the US have an Open Skies agreement?

I have to imagine that this will be a successful route for VN. Southern California has a huge Vietnamese population, and there are large business ties between the two areas.

I also thought UA was re-routing its flight to SGN as an LAX-HKG-SGN from its current SFO-HKG-SGN routing. Is that accurate?
 
LAXintl
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:39 am

 bigthumbsup  Good deal. Long time in the making.

Last I heard VN was considering operating via TPE, however probably cleverly settled on KIX instead. I'm sure they will offer cheap fill up fares to Japan via various consolidators.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 1):
I also thought UA was re-routing its flight to SGN as an LAX-HKG-SGN from its current SFO-HKG-SGN routing. Is that accurate?

Yes the SGN tags reverts to the resumed LAX-HKG flight flight this fall.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
kaitak
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:56 am

I always thought SFO would be its first choice, but I guess LA has a very strong Vietnamese population too.

When did TG stop its KIX-LAX service; with the A340-500s (reportedly) being sold, isn't it possible that TG could come back on this route and cause some competition for VN?
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:32 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
Good deal. Long time in the making.

Hell yeah!!! Perfect!!! This has been along time coming and Im glad to see that VN is killing two birds with one stone!

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 3):
I always thought SFO would be its first choice, but I guess LA has a very strong Vietnamese population too.

The are more Vietnamese in Southern California than in the Norcal. San Jose has the largest Vietnamese population of any american city, but if you add up the regions SoCal has more.

LAX tends to be the Asian carriers favorite airport in the US, so LAX over SFO was never a wonder to me.
It is what it is...
 
MastaHanky
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:56 am

Is this a route that could be run nonstop when VN get their 787s? Or is there not sufficient demand? I don't know much about the Vietnamese aviation scene...
 
goldorak
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:35 am

So VN finally changed their mind again. In may, they announced they were postponing US flights, although now they're flying through KIX and not non-stop to LAX
VN Delays Start Of Flights To The USA (by Goldorak May 19 2007 in Civil Aviation)
 
travelin man
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 6):
now they're flying through KIX and not non-stop to LAX

How would they have flown non-stop to LAX? Maybe when they get the 787, but they have no aircraft capable of SGN-LAX nonstop right now.
 
Boeing737WG
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:01 am

Awesome news! Hopefully the DOT will hurry up the process and we can take pixs of a beautiful livery in a wonderful airport!  camera 
Yay, I won baid-aids! :)
 
airlineaddict
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
In the application, Vietnam Airways also applies for authority to serve Dallas

Interesting that they chose Dallas over Houston. Houston has a large Vietnamese population. I wonder if they will partner with AA?
 
goldorak
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 7):
How would they have flown non-stop to LAX? Maybe when they get the 787, but they have no aircraft capable of SGN-LAX nonstop right now.

See the link on my post (reply 6). This has been discussed. I'm not a specilist of that but it seems it could be done with their 772 with weight restriction or making it non-stop from HAN (routing SGN-HAN-LAX)
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:05 am

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 9):
Interesting that they chose Dallas over Houston. Houston has a large Vietnamese population. I wonder if they will partner with AA?

They do codeshare with AA. That probably answers that question.
It is what it is...
 
MAH4546
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 9):
Interesting that they chose Dallas over Houston. Houston has a large Vietnamese population. I wonder if they will partner with AA?

They already do. Vietnam Airways codeshares on AA flights from Tokyo to Chicago, Dallas, and New York City; and from Paris to Chicago, Dallas, Miami, and New York City, as well as on domestic AA routes.
a.
 
airlineaddict
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:15 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):

They do codeshare with AA. That probably answers that question.

Thanks for the info. I was not aware that AA and VN were codesharing. Makes sense though since UA is offering flights to SGN.

Just noticed that the KIX - LAX flights will be at 2:00 AM arriving around 8 PM local time. The return flight to KIX departs at 11:05 PM and arrives at roughly 3:30 AM. These are not the best times for getting local traffic, but if you're the only game in town it may work.

[Edited 2007-08-07 00:23:01]
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:58 am

I am a little surprised that IAH was not in the list of US cities applied for by VN and even more surprised to see DFW listed as a possible future US gateway for VN. Did the Vietnamese population in the DFW metroplex recently surpass that of Houston over the past couple of years?

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
MAH4546
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 14):
I am a little surprised that IAH was not in the list of US cities applied for by VN and even more surprised to see DFW listed as a possible future US gateway for VN. Did the Vietnamese population in the DFW metroplex recently surpass that of Houston over the past couple of years?

It has to do with the fact that Vietnam Airlines US partner is American Airlines.

Also, people are reading too much into the other destinations they asked for authority for. The reality is that Vietnam Airlines will most likely stick with LAX for a very long time, and likely add just SFO. It is common for airlines to apply for wide authority, so that changes in market conditions will allow them to start routes quickly.
a.
 
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drerx7
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 14):
Did the Vietnamese population in the DFW metroplex recently surpass that of Houston over the past couple of years?

That AA codeshare is the sole reason. Smart move...its just a tuff pill for us IAHers to swallow. LOL.
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LAXdude1023
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:15 am

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 14):
I am a little surprised that IAH was not in the list of US cities applied for by VN and even more surprised to see DFW listed as a possible future US gateway for VN. Did the Vietnamese population in the DFW metroplex recently surpass that of Houston over the past couple of years?

Its just the Codesharing alone. If it were based on O&D alone, IAH would win hands down.
It is what it is...
 
PanAm747
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:35 am

Interestingly, both TPE and KIX are in almost a direct line between SGN and LAX. Both are logical choices.

It is hard to believe that two cities such as Los Angeles and Osaka have no non-stop link between them. What are JL, NH, UA, and NW doing for pax that want to fly KIX-LAX - routing them through NRT?

I am looking forward to the day when the beautiful green VN 777 flies over In & Out Burger:


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thomasphoto60
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:18 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 17):
Its just the Codesharing alone. If it were based on O&D alone, IAH would win hands down.



Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 16):
That AA codeshare is the sole reason. Smart move...its just a tuff pill for us IAHers to swallow. LOL.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
It has to do with the fact that Vietnam Airlines US partner is American Airlines.

I seem to have forgotten that VN hooked up with the Eagle.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
Also, people are reading too much into the other destinations they asked for authority for. The reality is that Vietnam Airlines will most likely stick with LAX for a very long time, and likely add just SFO. It is common for airlines to apply for wide authority, so that changes in market conditions will allow them to start routes quickly.

I completely concur

Thomas
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juventus
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:25 am

Finally, the beautiful livery of Vietnam in the States. Someone (from the Bay) said SFO was going to get them before LAX. I just didn't see that happening, Vietnam has had LAX on their sights for a while.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 7):
but they have no aircraft capable of SGN-LAX nonstop right now.

...they (allegedly) secured their GE90-powered birds with the intention of SGN-HAN-SFO nonstop
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ktachiya
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:41 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 18):
It is hard to believe that two cities such as Los Angeles and Osaka have no non-stop link between them. What are JL, NH, UA, and NW doing for pax that want to fly KIX-LAX - routing them through NRT?

I can't speak for the others, but JL is doing that. They started a second daily domestic flight when they stopped KIX-LAX. It is supposed to be timed for North American connections (YVR, SFO, LAX) are all departing in the evening. Also, the new JFK service that leaves at 9 pm is also transferrable although it would be a long wait.
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centrair
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:17 am

First of all this is good for VN and KIX. KIX has lost a lot of North American traffic and the best way to really get it is with 5th freedoms.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 18):
What are JL, NH, UA, and NW doing for pax that want to fly KIX-LAX - routing them through NRT?

NW and UA can route pax through HNL. UA can also route them via NRT with NH. JL also routes through NRT or can do so via HNL using their JO subsidiary (AA codeshare) and then putpax on AA flights to LAX. JL's CEO in an interview last year stated that JL will rebuild its LAX hub with the arrival of the 787-8s. This would include NGO-LAX and KIX-LAX.

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 13):
Just noticed that the KIX - LAX flights will be at 2:00 AM arriving around 8 PM local time. The return flight to KIX departs at 11:05 PM and arrives at roughly 3:30 AM. These are not the best times for getting local traffic, but if you're the only game in town it may work.

YIKES!!!! horrible times and they don't line up with the current schedule very well. Westbound seems okay but eastbound seems illogical. The plane sits at KIX for 10 hours.

VN's current KIX-SGN is (Daily) w/777:
VN940 DEP SGN 23:50 ARR KIX 6:45+1
VN941 DEP KIX 11:00 ARR SGN 14:35

KIX-HAN (3 weekly) w/ 767:
VN948 DEP HAN 23:40 ARR KIX 5:45+1
VN949 DEP KIX 18:50 ARR HAN 22:25

Seems to me that they have to redesign their KIX departure/arrival schedules so that flights can be profitable. That means leaving the US westcoast in the later morning and arriving at KIX in the afternoon/evening. Then departing for SGN or HAN in the evening arriving early in the morning. Then the eastbound leaves in the morning and arrives in KIX in the early afternoon. Then the LAX bound departs in the late afternoon arriving at LAX in the early morning. This is how UA, NW and a few other airlines that use 5th freedom through Japan seem to operate.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
airlineaddict
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:50 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 23):
YIKES!!!! horrible times and they don't line up with the current schedule very well. Westbound seems okay but eastbound seems illogical. The plane sits at KIX for 10 hours.

VN's current KIX-SGN is (Daily) w/777:
VN940 DEP SGN 23:50 ARR KIX 6:45+1
VN941 DEP KIX 11:00 ARR SGN 14:35

Here is the proposed Winter schedule based on the filing:

SGN - KIX : DEP 17:30 ARR 00:40
KIX - LAX: DEP 02:00 ARR 20:04
LAX - KIX: DEP 23:05 ARR 03:30
KIX - SGN: DEP 04:50 ARR 08:10

The Summer schedule varies just slightly.

The proposed departure and arrival schedule to/from SGN seems to fit a routing via TPE a little better. Using the same departure times, and scheduled flight time on BR, you get the following schedule:

SGN - TPE : DEP 17:30 ARR 21:45
TPE - LAX: DEP 23:05 ARR 18:30
LAX - TPE: DEP 21:30 ARR 04:15
TPE - SGN: DEP 05:35 ARR 08:05

Admittedly, the LAX - TPE and TPE - SGN segments are a little early, but much better than the KIX schedule.
 
Carpethead
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:03 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 18):
It is hard to believe that two cities such as Los Angeles and Osaka have no non-stop link between them. What are JL, NH, UA, and NW doing for pax that want to fly KIX-LAX - routing them through NRT?

Actually, demand has just disappeared over the years.
For example, Japanese tourist visiting SoCal has dropped to about a quarter to that prior to 9-11.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 23):
The plane sits at KIX for 10 hours.
KIX-HAN (3 weekly) w/ 767:
VN948 DEP HAN 23:40 ARR KIX 5:45+1
VN949 DEP KIX 18:50 ARR HAN 22:25

That flight is a codeshare with JL metal. Hence the 1:15 ground time in HAN. Plus its now a 738 4-weekly.
The KIX-SGN is primarily A332 metal these days. KIX has seen everything from A320/A321 during slow periods.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:18 pm

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 25):
For example, Japanese tourist visiting SoCal has dropped to about a quarter to that prior to 9-11.

Down 12.2% since 2002.

Interestingly only one of two major nationalities which experienced declines in foreign visitors to LA which actualy enjoyed 14.4% growth in overseas arrivals since 2002. As a result Japan lost its #1 ranking in overseas visitors to the UK.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
elmothehobo
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:24 pm

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 9):
Interesting that they chose Dallas over Houston. Houston has a large Vietnamese population. I wonder if they will partner with AA?

American codeshare.

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 13):
Thanks for the info. I was not aware that AA and VN were codesharing. Makes sense though since UA is offering flights to SGN.

This is a one sided codeshare, as American does not place its code on VN flights, nor can AAdvantage members earn miles on VN flights, though this may change with Vietnam Airlines coming to the United States.
 
kaitak
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:16 pm

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 24):
SGN - KIX : DEP 17:30 ARR 00:40
KIX - LAX: DEP 02:00 ARR 20:04
LAX - KIX: DEP 23:05 ARR 03:30
KIX - SGN: DEP 04:50 ARR 08:10

What an awful schedule, particularly from a KIX point of view; while the KIX-LAX/vv sector takes its time to spool up and make some money, they're going to need to make SGN-KIX as successful as possible and a schedule like this, particularly on the way back, won't help.

And as for enthusiasts ... well, we can only hope for tech delays!
 
centrair
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:49 pm

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 24):
GN - KIX : DEP 17:30 ARR 00:40
KIX - LAX: DEP 02:00 ARR 20:04
LAX - KIX: DEP 23:05 ARR 03:30
KIX - SGN: DEP 04:50 ARR 08:1

Do they really want to make money on this route? I am guessing they think they can get good O&D out of LAX/USA and that the KIX stop becomes a tech stop. If they are hoping for Japanese pax, I think they better rethink their plans. They could get LAX/USA O&D and Japanese O&D if they reschedule to times when most people are alive and want to travel.

[Edited 2007-08-07 07:52:17]
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
as739x
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RE: Vietnam Airlines Applies For SGN-KIX-LAX

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:35 pm

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 9):

Agreed. I thought Houston would have been in the top 3 or 4.

That is an aweful schedule if they go with it, IMHO. The plane is in JP in the middle of the night both way. TPE seems like it would be a better fit.

Can wait to see them in San Francisco

ASSFO
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