Alias1024
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Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:51 pm

Did a search and didn't find anything, so forgive me if this was already discussed. It might have been lost in the buzz over Jeff Potter's career changes. We knew ABQ-PVR was on the way, but now the schedule is out. Looks like 3x per week on E170s. Service on Wednesday, Saturday, and Sunday. Here is a link to the press release.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070803/laf045.html?.v=84

What do you think the chances of success are with this schedule?
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:48 pm

Quoting Alias1024 (Thread starter):
What do you think the chances of success are with this schedule?

Im sorry but I dont see success at all. Why ABQ-PVR? Who came up with that market? Is there really that many people from New Mexico going to PVR that often? Bring the route to the Central Valley I say. You will make more money here.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
ABQ747
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:17 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
Im sorry but I dont see success at all. Why ABQ-PVR? Who came up with that market? Is there really that many people from New Mexico going to PVR that often?

According to the city of Albuquerque's website, PVR is one of the top Mexican destination markets from ABQ.

Top 6 Mexican Destinations from ABQ
�� Mexico City
�� Cancun
�� Puerto Vallarta
�� Guadalajara
�� Cabo San Lucas
�� Chihuahua

I bet this new route will do well. ABQ is a rapidly growing market, and I wouldn't be surprised if other international destinations are added.
The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 2):
According to the city of Albuquerque's website, PVR is one of the top Mexican destination markets from ABQ.

Well it is on the top list but how many people travel that route? Enough to fill 3 E170s a week?
Don't Tread On Me!
 
ABQ747
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:41 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 3):
Well it is on the top list but how many people travel that route? Enough to fill 3 E170s a week?

They don't say how many people travel between ABQ and those destinations. The city of Albuquerque will guarantee profitability for these flights. If Frontier loses money on these flights, the city will make up the difference. So F9 basically has nothing to lose.
The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:48 pm

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 4):
They don't say how many people travel between ABQ and those destinations. The city of Albuquerque will guarantee profitability for these flights. If Frontier loses money on these flights, the city will make up the difference. So F9 basically has nothing to lose.

Yeah we saw a similar situation here at FAT with F9. Now we know how good their word is  Yeah sure Sorry I dont mean to bash them but just the idea of "nothing to lose" and "F9" doesnt go together for me.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:17 pm

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 2):
I bet this new route will do well.

Given that it is ABQ's only non-stop to anywhere in Mexico, I think you may be right.

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 5):
Sorry I dont mean to bash them

You're doing quite a job of it.

mariner

[Edited 2007-08-07 12:18:23]
aeternum nauta
 
DLOnur
Posts: 243
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:56 pm

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:21 pm

This will be a fun non-rev route indeed!

Gotta love station agreements.

 Wink
What you believe is what you see.
 
DesertAir
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:07 pm

It seems like Frontier is following the Allegiant business model in regards to their Mexico service. I wish them well.
 
Candid76
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:57 pm

How busy is ABQ? I'm planning to fly through there twice en route to Roswell (with Frontier as well!) and am hoping to get three hours or so airside in each direction to do some spotting. Any info welcome!
 
iahflyer
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:57 pm

Does ABQ even have FIS facilities? I have been to ABQ before and can't remember a single sign.
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
 
kingcavalier
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:04 pm

These will be through flights from DEN so there should be enough traffic with the connecting feed.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:19 pm

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 8):
It seems like Frontier is following the Allegiant business model in regards to their Mexico service. I wish them well.

Given outgoing CEO Jeff Potter's business attachments, I think F9 has found a niche business in the U.S. as the charter companies and tour operators have up in Canada. I think F9 is staking it's LCC claim on Mexico in advance before WN starts and stays ahead of B6 and other possible entrants. This USAToday article I think sums this up quite well: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...s/2007-08-07-frontier-mexico_N.htm
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
AirMike2
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 6):
Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 5):
Sorry I dont mean to bash them

You're doing quite a job of it.

Hi QXatFAT: you're not allowed to voice your opinion on F9 on this website. Mariner forbids it.
 
BCAInfoSys
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 9):
How busy is ABQ? I'm planning to fly through there twice en route to Roswell (with Frontier as well!) and am hoping to get three hours or so airside in each direction to do some spotting. Any info welcome!

It's a pretty slow airport. If you get the timing right, there's some interesting military traffic, but the civilian side is pretty blah.

At ABQ I've seen:

- USAF CV-22 Osprey
- USAF F-16
- USMC F/A-18
- Luftwaffe Tornado
- USN P-3 Orion
- NM ANG C-130

I think my favorite were the Ospreys! Some seriously cool-ass birds!

Anyway, 3 hours will be a long time at ABQ. My best recommendation: there's a top-notch cantina just on the other side of security (unsecure part of the terminal). They have some amazing local green chile dishes that will light you up. That with some cervezas and tequila makes for a great afternoon at ABQ!  yummy 

Check this map for the location of "Gardunos Chile Packing Co. and Cantina" (2); it is without a doubt the best food at ABQ.

http://www.cabq.gov/airport/pdf/webmap_level3.pdf
Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
 
stapleton
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
Why ABQ-PVR?

Many reasons.

1. No direct competition
2. This route did very well for the original Frontier over 20 years ago.
3. Strong Mexican ties in New Mexico
4. Revenue guarantees

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
Bring the route to the Central Valley I say.

Why would they do that? Don't you want Mexicana to succeed? Neither ABQ of FAT should want their market diluted so much that nobody can succeed. I can understand you are disappointed F9 left FAT but all too often we have to be careful of what we ask for.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Stapleton (Reply 15):
2. This route did very well for the original Frontier over 20 years ago.

I thought that I was the only one that remembered that Frontier One flew from ABQ to PVR and some other Mexican cities......didnt Frontier One also have nonstop service from ELP to Mexican destinations as well?

I think that this will work.....niche market being served with a smaller airplane on a limited basis, sounds like a winner to me. PVR via the F9 flight will certainly be the most convenient beach holiday destination for the residents of ABQ.....lets give F9 credit for thinking ""outside of the box"" and developing new routes.
 
DLOnur
Posts: 243
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:35 am

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 14):

I respectfully disagree...

Depending on what time of day you come to ABQ you will see lots of commercial metal from the observation deck (center of the terminal after security, upstairs)....grab a lunch and check things out:

DL 757's
DL737-800
DLMD88's
US 319's
US737's
CO 737's
UA737's
UA319's
AA MD88's
WN 737's
F9 719's
FX727's
UPS757
UPSA300
UPS767

Seems that mid-to-late afternoon is the best time for different A/C types....

-o-
What you believe is what you see.
 
stapleton
Posts: 181
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:57 am

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
didnt Frontier One also have nonstop service from ELP to Mexican destinations as well?

Yes, the old Frontier did that as well. The original flights went DEN-ABQ-ELP-MZT-GDL-ELP-ABQ-DEN. Later they split some of the flights between ABQ and ELP and added PVR and ZIH. The PVR seemed to be very successful. It is interesting to see how similar the F9 route map is looking to the old FL route map (For those that don't remember, FL used to be the code for the original Frontier before they ceased service and AirTran ended up with it).
 
BCAInfoSys
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 17):
I respectfully disagree...

That list just doesn't light me up, it seems pretty standard to me. I guess I was just spoiled growing up in SEA..

Either way, ABQ is a great little airport. The only thing I dislike is the security hall.. it just gives me bad juju for some reason. Maybe because it's so rigid/confined.. I dunno. I just don't like clearing security in ABQ for some weird reason...
Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
 
juventus
Posts: 2017
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 3):
Well it is on the top list but how many people travel that route? Enough to fill 3 E170s a week?

Yes, easily. Daily, probably not. I think they flight will do well, but F9 has to do some propaganda. They have to get the word out.
 
mtnwest1979
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Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:31 am

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 19):
Either way, ABQ is a great little airport. The only thing I dislike is the security hall.. it just gives me bad juju for some reason. Maybe because it's so rigid/confined.. I dunno. I just don't like clearing security in ABQ for some weird reason...

It has been about 8 months since I have been thru there, and they were widening the walkway post security to the gates. Wonder if it is done yet. I assume that their security area was to be expanded as well. True?
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
Alias1024
Topic Author
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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
Is there really that many people from New Mexico going to PVR that often?

A few years ago it was estimated to be somewhere between 40-70 per day. I think F9 is also hoping to stimulate demand with the non-stop. With some advertising and decent vacation packages I'm optimistic about it's chances.

Quoting IAHFLYER (Reply 10):
Does ABQ even have FIS facilities? I have been to ABQ before and can't remember a single sign.

Yes they do, but it isn't near the gates. It is located to the west of the ticket counters near the location of the old C concourse. Renovated just a few years ago. Typically international charters have parked in the area between the ticket counters and the A concourse while unloading, then are towed to a gate to load for departure. I would guess that F9 will do the same. If international traffic grows, ABQ has the ability to build an FIS under either the A or B concourse.

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 14):
At ABQ I've seen:

- USAF CV-22 Osprey
- USAF F-16
- USMC F/A-18
- Luftwaffe Tornado
- USN P-3 Orion
- NM ANG C-130

There are also Blackhawk helicopters stationed on the base. A-10s seem to be fairly common visitors, and sometimes the F-117s from Holoman AFB will stop in to do touch and goes at ABQ.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
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mariner
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Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:16 am

PVR is going to be busy for Frontier - new service form SJC and SMF as well:

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...s/2007-08-07-frontier-mexico_N.htm

ABQ airport has also said they are negotiating for service to GDL and CUU.

Quoting AirMike2 (Reply 13):
Mariner forbids it.

Hi, AirMike2 - how's your day? I'm just not sure how I can I "forbid" anything.

As a heads up, your signature - which used to read "Mariner = Pretentious" - now reads "Mariner = P".

I wonder if you are aware that in some countries, New Zealand, for example, "P" is the euphemism for methamphetamine?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Alias1024
Topic Author
Posts: 2247
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 23):
ABQ airport has also said they are negotiating for service to GDL and CUU.

GDL on the E170 and CUU on the Q400 would be interesting additions. Both would be welcome, but I'm hoping for AM or MX to open ABQ-MEX. That route has the highest number of passengers between ABQ and Mexico, and the connecting options in MEX on either airline make me think it could work well.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
AirMike2
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:56 pm

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 23):
I wonder if you are aware that in some countries, New Zealand, for example, "P" is the euphemism for methamphetamine?

Thanks for that info! That "P" could mean many things. Use your imagination.
 
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mariner
Posts: 18416
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting AirMike2 (Reply 25):
Use your imagination.

Oh, I can think of lots of things, and I would regard most of them - all of them, even - as either factual or a compliment.

I am simply concerned that airliners.net not be seen - in some countries - to be condoning illegal drug use.

 Smile

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
ABQ747
Posts: 646
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:38 am

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 19):
Either way, ABQ is a great little airport. The only thing I dislike is the security hall.. it just gives me bad juju for some reason. Maybe because it's so rigid/confined.. I dunno. I just don't like clearing security in ABQ for some weird reason...

The new security hall is a lot bigger and better than the old one. I've seen much more confined security checkpoints at larger hub airports.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 23):
ABQ airport has also said they are negotiating for service to GDL and CUU.

I don't know why the mayor is so obsessed with GDL and CUU. MEX and CUN should be a higher priority.
The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
 
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mariner
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 27):
I don't know why the mayor is so obsessed with GDL and CUU. MEX and CUN should be a higher priority.

Mostly, I agree.

The case of CUU might be a bit different, though. It is a fairly big "point of contact", and it is only just over 400 miles from ABQ.

Maybe it is possible that Frontier is considering using the Lynx Q400's for the route? I dunno. I don't even know if the negotiatons for ABQ-CUU are with Frontier.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Alias1024
Topic Author
Posts: 2247
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 28):
Maybe it is possible that Frontier is considering using the Lynx Q400's for the route? I dunno. I don't even know if the negotiatons for ABQ-CUU are with Frontier.

Lynx would be greatl, but perhaps AeroLitoral on the Saab 340 is the best fit for ABQ-CUU. Right size airplane, and the ability to feed traffic through their small CUU hub, and code shares with AM, MX, and DL.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
ABQ747
Posts: 646
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:22 am

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 29):
Lynx would be greatl, but perhaps AeroLitoral on the Saab 340 is the best fit for ABQ-CUU. Right size airplane, and the ability to feed traffic through their small CUU hub, and code shares with AM, MX, and DL.

An ERJ would be a better fit. CUU-ABQ would be an uncomfortably long flight for a little SAAB 340.
The reason New Mexico is so windy is because Texas sucks and Arizona blows.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3681
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:26 am

I think the route may surprise the nayers. Especially since the flight originates in DEN, as it can pick up additional traffic. What good would it do to not try the route? Go for it!!

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 5):
Yeah we saw a similar situation here at FAT with F9. Now we know how good their word is Yeah sure Sorry I dont mean to bash them but just the idea of "nothing to lose" and "F9" doesnt go together for me.

Why would F9 continue to fly a route that they were losing money on? While I hoped FAT would work out for them, it obviously did not. It was a business decision, and obviously one that made sense. I could be mad at Delta for DFW cuts, but I understand the business and the needs they had to survive.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
Alias1024
Topic Author
Posts: 2247
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 1):
Bring the route to the Central Valley I say. You will make more money here.

FAT's terminal is about 1/3rd the size of ABQ, and handles about 1/6th the passengers. Seems like ABQ is a better bet.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
Candid76
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 5:10 am

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:44 pm

Thanks for your replies to my question guys. I don't do military, but for a UK spotter (even one with a number of decent US trips behind him!) the list provided by DLOnur still offers plenty to look forward to!
 
iahflyer
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:34 pm

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:30 pm

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 22):
Yes they do, but it isn't near the gates. It is located to the west of the ticket counters near the location of the old C concourse. Renovated just a few years ago. Typically international charters have parked in the area between the ticket counters and the A concourse while unloading, then are towed to a gate to load for departure. I would guess that F9 will do the same. If international traffic grows, ABQ has the ability to build an FIS under either the A or B concourse.

Thanks for the info, I've walked around there for a while and never saw a sign of it.

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 9):
I'm planning to fly through there twice en route to Roswell (with Frontier as well!) and am hoping to get three hours or so airside in each direction to do some spotting. Any info welcome

One interesting sight is the 747 parked on the other side of the tarmac, I believe it's not flyable but is used for training of some kind, also in the check-in lobby there is a decent model plane exhibit.
Little airports with the big jets are the best!! Floyd
 
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727tiger
Posts: 249
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RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 14):
It's a pretty slow airport. If you get the timing right, there's some interesting military traffic, but the civilian side is pretty blah.

I once was awaiting a late-evening flight to MCI when I got to see 2 F-16s take off together on full afterburners. What a great sight from the gate area.
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1699
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 23):
PVR is going to be busy for Frontier - new service form SJC and SMF as well:

I'm not trying to be a cheerleader, but I can't figure out for the life of me why they haven't added PVR-STL. American flies it all of about 20 times per year and I'm sure it would do well.
 
frontierflyer
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:35 am

RE: Frontier Announces ABQ-PVR

Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:08 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):

A stop at ELP would be great. Flew ELP-ABQ all the time on F9.

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