MIAUA777
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Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:20 am

I was just wondering if HA ever flew to the east coast? And if not will they ever attempt to try the routes either direct from Hawaii to the east coast or continuations from the West Coast.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting MIAUA777 (Thread starter):
I was just wondering if HA ever flew to the east coast? And if not will they ever attempt to try the routes either direct from Hawaii to the east coast or continuations from the West Coast.

The past 3-4 years have seen the following rumors:

HNL-STL
HNL-MCO
HNL-DFW
HNL-ORD
HNL-MCI
HNL-JFK

It has yet to be seen if any of the above will ever come into play..

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
OB1504
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:29 am

If they do, I would find HNL-ORD and HNL-JFK the most likely. They might encounter some stiff competition from UA and CO, respectively, though.
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:34 am

Can their current 767s fly unrestricted from JKF/ORD to HNL?
 
OB1504
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:40 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 3):
Can their current 767s fly unrestricted from JKF/ORD to HNL?

JFK-HNL is 4330 nm. If LA can fly a 763 MAD-GYE (4867 nm), then the 763 is more than capable of the route.

For comparison, CO flies a 764 (with less range than the 763) EWR-HNL and doesn't suffer any notable weight restrictions.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:53 am

There have always been rumors, and I think that HA was very close to opening a route to JFK before the 9/11 attacks and resulting downturn....but consider that operating a flights from the east coast is a difficult proposition. There are few nonstop flights from the Eastern Half of the US to HNL.....and those operate from major hubs for the big carriers to the islands. CO operates the only nonstop service from the NYC area to HNL for example.....and there is a reason for the lack of service: for most pax living in the eastern half of the US, a sun and beach vacation to Florida, Mexico or the Caribbean is far less expensive and requires far less flying than a trip to Hawaii. Its simply competition between various sun destinations.

Also consider that East Coast-Hawaii turn ties up a longhaul airplane for about 24 hours.....and while yields to Hawaii are better than they were in the past, there are probably better routes to fly where more money can be made.

Thus, as HA looks to expand, I think that they will be looking to Asia and the Pacific and not the US east coast for future long haul services.
 
SpencerII
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
Also consider that East Coast-Hawaii turn ties up a longhaul airplane for about 24 hours.....and while yields to Hawaii are better than they were in the past, there are probably better routes to fly where more money can be made.

This is a fact, and with the yields on most Hawaii services at extremely low parameters aircraft would be better utilized in other types of ops. That being said, HA definitely needs to diversify their route structure and perhaps consider
adding some domestic mainland services to some West Coast city they currently operate from and sort of operate a hub feeding system to their hawaii/south pacific bound flights Their scheduled operation is almost 100% reliant on Hawaii bound/Hawaii originate or intra hawaii services. Some mainland points outside the extreme WEst Coast would diversify their revenue stream, and also provide feed for their Mainland-Hawaii operations.
 
nrcnyc
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:11 am

I know little about HA. Could HA compete with CO on price much? Would they be able to offer better Service than CO?

I have flown CO EWR-HNL a few times in BF, probably some of the best domestic flying available.
 
whappeh
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:15 am

HNL-MCO? Really? That seems like an odd route to me.
-Travel now, journey infinitely.
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting Nrcnyc (Reply 7):
Would they be able to offer better Service than CO?

Maybe food and crew-wise, but CO has PTV's on their 767's.
I love ASO!
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:44 am

I don't know a great deal of information on HA, but JFK has no nonstop HNL service, which would make it a prime choice, regardless of the service at EWR, as the markets are very different. Also, BOS and IAD have no service to HNL, am I correct? Also, could the 763 even make JFK-HNL nonstop?
 
OB1504
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 10):
Also, could the 763 even make JFK-HNL nonstop?

Yes, as I stated earlier. If the 764 can make it, the 763 can, too.
 
flynavy
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:59 am

A while back Delta had 1-stop service to HNL from MCO (as in, it was the same flight number on each leg, same aircraft). I remember taking the MCO-ATL left of this flight on a 764 and the cabin crew stating that passengers continuing on to HNL could remain on board. I honestly don't see HA starting HNL-MCO anytime soon, at least, not before JFK or DFW. There is more than enough capacity to HNL from MCO today in terms of connection options. Using a random date of August 14, Delta offered 27 separate itineraries with connections thru ATL, CVG, MSP, SFO, and LAX.

But, then again, my philosophy is to never say never...
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
dutchjet
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 10):
I don't know a great deal of information on HA, but JFK has no nonstop HNL service, which would make it a prime choice, regardless of the service at EWR, as the markets are very different

The difference is that CO has a big hub at EWR that can feed passengers to the EWR-HNL flight...allowing the flight to operate with a good mix of O&D pax and pax connecting from other eastern US destinations. HA would have no feed whatsoever at JFK which would be problematic....running this flight solely for O&D passengers probably would not work. As an example, look at Air Tahiti's miserable performance with the JFK-PPT route. Again, New Yorkers and other east coast residents can easily fly to Florida, the Bahamas, the Caribbean, Mexico in a few short hours where a flight to Hawaii is a 10 hour affair.....it quicker to fly from NYC to Rome than it to fly from NYC to Honolulu! The long flight adds expense and reduces the Hawaii's appeal as a beach destination as there are so many other alternatives.....and passengers from the NYC area who want to go to Hawaii have the CO nonstop, or can fly their carrier of choice via the respective airlines hub city; there is already a good amount of choice.

As for the differences between the markets served by EWR and JFK, for the purposes of this discussion, both airports serve the greater NYC area and lets leave it at that.

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 10):
Also, BOS and IAD have no service to HNL, am I correct?

They dont, nor does PHL, CLE, DTW at the moment, etc, etc. The reasons are (1) limited demand, (2) yields as Hawaii is primarily a leisure and not a business route, (3) the distance of the flight means dedicating a longhaul widebody to the route for many hours.....a plane that could probably be used for more profitable routes, and (4) the airlines can get you to Hawaii (and in many cases directly to your island of choice) efficiently via a Western US hub city.
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:29 am

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 12):
I honestly don't see HA starting HNL-MCO anytime soon

Agreed. MCO and HNL are competing markets aren't they?
I love ASO!
 
dutchjet
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:36 am

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 14):
Agreed. MCO and HNL are competing markets aren't they?

In the broadest sense, both MCO and HNL are leisure holiday destinations.

In any case, I really dont see any type of market between the two cities....and there are plenty of ways to fly between MCO and HNL on each of the major carriers by transiting one hub city.
 
sllevin
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:10 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 4):
JFK-HNL is 4330 nm. If LA can fly a 763 MAD-GYE (4867 nm), then the 763 is more than capable of the route.

While I'm not disagreeing that the 763 could fly the route, one thing to be careful of when talking about distances and HNL (as compared to transatlantic) is that the US West Coast to HNL is just about the longest segment flown without alternates around. That's why AMS-IAH has about virtually no fuel diverts, whilst EWR-HNL does sometimes have to stop in the winter.

But I do wholly agree that if the 764 makes it all but a handful of days a year, clearly a 763 could do so easily year round without issues.

Steve
 
SANFan
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:32 am

Quoting SpencerII (Reply 6):
Their scheduled operation is almost 100% reliant on Hawaii bound/Hawaii originate or intra hawaii services. Some mainland points outside the extreme WEst Coast would diversify their revenue stream, and also provide feed for their Mainland-Hawaii operations.

Hence the name, HAWAIIAN Airlines.  Wink And from what I hear, their planes are quite full, the fares are not that cheap and they appear to be rather successful on their trans-Pacific routes; they are suffering on the inter-island due mostly to Go! I think they will continue to serve the west coast cities, increasing capacity on existing routes as possible and needed, and work on some int'l route expansion. Almost any additional mainland US cities HA would be interested in already have n/s HNL service (since they are someones' hubs.)

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
for most pax living in the eastern half of the US, a sun and beach vacation to Florida, Mexico or the Caribbean is far less expensive and requires far less flying than a trip to Hawaii. Its simply competition between various sun destinations.

Dead on, Dutch'; cruises have changed that situation a bit but your point is sound.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):

Also consider that East Coast-Hawaii turn ties up a longhaul airplane for about 24 hours.....and while yields to Hawaii are better than they were in the past, there are probably better routes to fly where more money can be made

Also a very valid observation.

The one thing that I would like to see HA try is to add a MEX leg to say, HNL- or OGG-SAN; I've thought (and said) for many years that even though the citizens of MEX (and GDL) have plenty of their own nearby beach/sun resorts, when I lived in HNL for a couple of years, there was a large Mexican presence there. I don't know any numbers but I think a direct flight might produce loads that would surprise people. HA would also make some money carrying local pax between SAN and MEX (and/or GDL) since nobody else is doing it.

bb
 
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ER757
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
Thus, as HA looks to expand, I think that they will be looking to Asia and the Pacific and not the US east coast for future long haul services.

I'm wondering if they could compete profitably with JL on HNL/NRT or HNL/KIX. Lord knows the Ewa concourse often looks more like Narita than Honolulu, but I have no Idea what fare structure or package deals that JL offers and whether HA could match or beat JL and turn a profit at the same time.
As for eastward expansion in the US, I don't see them going any further east than ORD and that would be a struggle going against the entrenched powers of UA and AA
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:41 am

Quoting Nrcnyc (Reply 7):
Would they be able to offer better Service than CO?

They offer the best domestic economy product of any US airline.. IMHO!!

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
OB1504
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:48 pm

Has HA ever considered turning HNL into a massive trans-Pacific connecting hub? They could serve secondary cities in both the United States and Asia with 73Gs or 752s from HNL (admittedly, the 757 can't reach many Asian cities from HNL) and funnel them through to the other side of the ocean.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:52 pm

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 12):

But, then again, my philosophy is to never say never...

In the case of MCO-HNL, saying "never" is okay.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 17):
HA would also make some money carrying local pax between SAN and MEX (and/or GDL) since nobody else is doing it.

Nobody is doing it because the market is not really there, as AeroMexico has discovered multiple times.
a.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:05 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 17):
they appear to be rather successful on their trans-Pacific routes

Marginal from a financial position according to their CEO. At the last conference call he termed TransPac which represents 70% of HAs revenue as "long haul, low yield" and "very competitive with pricing being challenging"

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 20):
Has HA ever considered turning HNL into a massive trans-Pacific connecting hub?

The day Hawaii could be sold as a Pacific hub are long gone.

With aircraft that can overfly Hawaii and connect markets directly, one is not going to find many people willing to detour via Hawaii.
A good example is HA's SYD service. The carrier has to go to great lenghts on the mainland to market the SYD flight with offers of free stopovers and even interisland flights to try to attract people away from the nonstop West Coast-South Pacific options. Such incentives come both at a cost and reduced yields.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
je89_w
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting ER757 (Reply 18):
I'm wondering if they could compete profitably with JL on HNL/NRT or HNL/KIX

Hawaiian actually got the go ahead for the OGG-NRT route with their DC-10s back in 1998 or so. Apparently, the route did not takeoff because of filled parking capacities at NRT or something like that. I believe they also tried the HNL-NRT route as well.

Many airlines fly the HNL-NRT sector, like CI, UA, JO (JL), NH, and NW. JL, NH, and UA have cut numerous flights since 2001, and although the Japan to Hawaii market and competition is huge, not sure if it would be a good idea for HA to launch that route now.
 
SpencerII
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 17):
Quoting SpencerII (Reply 6):
Their scheduled operation is almost 100% reliant on Hawaii bound/Hawaii originate or intra hawaii services. Some mainland points outside the extreme WEst Coast would diversify their revenue stream, and also provide feed for their Mainland-Hawaii operations.

Hence the name, HAWAIIAN Airlines. And from what I hear, their planes are quite full, the fares are not that cheap and they appear to be rather successful on their trans-Pacific routes; they are suffering on the inter-island due mostly to Go! I think they will continue to serve the west coast cities, increasing capacity on existing routes as possible and needed, and work on some int'l route expansion. Almost any additional mainland US cities HA would be interested in already have n/s HNL service (since they are someones' hubs.)

and Hence comes bankrupctys and huge losses. I wonder what Alaska Airlines would be today if they only served the SEA-Alaska and Inter Alaska markets. If HA continues as they are, they won't be around much longer. HENCE the addage, put your head in the sand and let it pass.
 
DTWAGENT
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:28 pm

How about DTW-HNL. Right now we don't even have a non-stop flight in the winter months to HNL any more. HA would be a great thing here in DTW.

chuck
 
MAH4546
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:32 pm

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 25):
How about DTW-HNL. Right now we don't even have a non-stop flight in the winter months to HNL any more. HA would be a great thing here in DTW.

That's a market for Northwest and Northwest alone. If they can't make it work, nobody can.
a.
 
ha763
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 3):
Can their current 767s fly unrestricted from JKF/ORD to HNL?

The ER's can do it easily.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 5):
There have always been rumors, and I think that HA was very close to opening a route to JFK before the 9/11 attacks and resulting downturn....

I can say that this was very true. I found out that JFK was supposed to have been announced on Sept. 16. Also, the NYC market to Hawaii is not small and is one of the largest U.S. markets to Hawaii.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 1):
HNL-MCO

This first came around when HA had an advertisement in the MCO area. You have to remember that at the time, Renaissance Cruises used HA to fly their pax to Tahiti and Renaissance was headquartered in Orlando.

Most of the destinations listed in the 2nd reply have been looked at multiple times and are constantly watched.

Quoting Je89_w (Reply 23):
Hawaiian actually got the go ahead for the OGG-NRT route with their DC-10s back in 1998 or so. Apparently, the route did not takeoff because of filled parking capacities at NRT or something like that. I believe they also tried the HNL-NRT route as well.

HA wanted OGG-NRT first, but that died when the State dropped plans to extend the runway at OGG due to opposition from Maui residents and even the County government. Because Hawaii is considered a single destination in the U.S.-Japan bilateral, they could fly from any Hawaii airport. HA tried HNL-NRT, but couldn't get slots that would allow connections in either direction and gave up the authority when it expired. AA then got the authority, but again, could not get the slots that would make it workable.
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:16 pm

This probably does not mean anything but during the recent F/A hirings they were looking for Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Samoan and French speakers....there may have been a few others.

The Samoan and French make sense (PPT and PPG). There were a bunch of Japanese speakers in the recent training classes, and there are many other more senior F/As who are listed in the system as Japanese speakers.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
ha763
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:53 pm

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 28):

HA has always looked for people who are bilingual/multilingual for F/As. It used to be just Japanese, French, and Samoan. The addition of Korean would be due to the codeshare with KE. As for the Chinese, I would suspect that would be due to an increase in Chinese speaking pax.
 
Boeing737WG
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:47 pm

Why doesn't HA order some 777's or take a few 763's from an airpark?  confused 


Boeing737WG
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Yay, I won baid-aids! :)
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:51 pm

Last year there was a rumor that HA was looking at SLC-HNL. But I think this one is one for DL to lose.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
D L X
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:13 am

Why not fly to PHL and get some feed from their partner US Airways?
 
flynavy
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:39 am

Have they ever considered FAT, RNO, or ANC?
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
hangarrat
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:43 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 32):
Why not fly to PHL and get some feed from their partner US Airways?


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They used to fly to PHL. I remember these old birds flying over my house when I was a kid in the 80s. Even then they were a rare sight.

One reason they may not fly to PHL is that they can code share easily with US at LAX.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 25):
How about DTW-HNL. Right now we don't even have a non-stop flight in the winter months to HNL any more. HA would be a great thing here in DTW.

As said if NW can't do it than no one else can. NW flew DTW-HNL seasonally for 3-4 years with a DC-10. The flight operated for the two weeks surround the Christmas/New Years holiday period and then again from mid-Feb through mid-April during winter & spring break periods. Many of the same issues with the East Coast gateways occur at DTW with other options. Plus there are ample connections on NW through the MSP/West Coast to get to HNL, OGG, and KOA. Plus ample connections on everyone else to get to their desired island.

Quoting D L X (Reply 32):
Why not fly to PHL and get some feed from their partner US Airways?

Same issue as other East Coast markets like BOS, JFK, EWR as Dutchjet points out. Many other vacation/leisure options that require less flight time and/or less expensive. Plus aircraft utilization.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting Boeing737WG (Reply 30):
Why doesn't HA order some 777's or take a few 763's from an airpark?


Boeing737WG

I assume you are joking, you are joking, right?

Quoting D L X (Reply 32):
Why not fly to PHL and get some feed from their partner US Airways?

Why would US Airways put their pax on HA airplanes when, instead, US can simply send its pax to Hawaii on its own flights that depart from US's PHX and LAX hubs? If any airline could make PHL-HNL work, it would be US, and US does not seem to think that this route is a priority.

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 33):
Have they ever considered FAT, RNO, or ANC?

HA does (did?) have a long standing charter program out of ANC, I am sure one of our Alaska based members has more information. Didnt Aloha try RNO? IN any case, FAT and RNO could not support a 767 service to Hawaii.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
Didnt Aloha try RNO? IN any case, FAT and RNO could not support a 767 service to Hawaii

Aloha flies to Reno to Honolulu daily via Orange County

Quoting D L X (Reply 32):
Why not fly to PHL and get some feed from their partner US Airways?

They are anything but partners anymore... And it was America West, not US Airways

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
Chugach
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 33):
Have they ever considered FAT, RNO, or ANC?

HA has flown HNL-ANC for years. It's a scheduled charter in conjunction with Hawaiian Vacations. See www.hawaiianvacations.com for more info.
GO ROCKETS
 
boeing743
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:33 am

I wonder if HA has enough fleet to support the new routes to East coast of US out of HNL?? Also major city would be major routes. JFK would be likely due to connection to europe flights. ALso another possiblity out of ORD too. But we also need to look at flights that service to HNL from hubs. Some of airlines already cut back on number of daily flights to HNL. Also I noticed that more of flights are now start to move to either LAX or SFO instead of n/s from ORD, DFW, ATL, SLC, CVG, IAH.
 
OB1504
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting HangarRat (Reply 34):
One reason they may not fly to PHL is that they can code share easily with US at LAX.

It makes sense to fly into US' hubs at LAX and PHX, which are much closer than PHL and CLT.  Smile
 
Jj
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:36 am

This summer AS is also flying ANC-HNL daily. And Northwest used to fly it with their 753's IIRC.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 40):
It makes sense to fly into US' hubs at LAX and PHX, which are much closer than PHL and CLT.

You mean LAS dont you?  dollarsign   sun   dollarsign   sun 

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 35):
Same issue as other East Coast markets like BOS, JFK, EWR as Dutchjet points out. Many other vacation/leisure options that require less flight time and/or less expensive. Plus aircraft utilization.

The other thing that comes into play here is geography and leisure destination preference. For much of the population in the U.S. (the east coast and mid-west in particular), the Caribbean is a much closer tropical destination. It typically isn't until you get well into the Mountain Time Zone that Hawaii becomes geographically closer and thus flight-time closer, so any direct Hawaii flights from east of SLC, DEN or PHX really for sure will need a strong network feed to assure success unless of course it is a VERY large O&D market such as an ORD etc...

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 39):
Some of airlines already cut back on number of daily flights to HNL. Also I noticed that more of flights are now start to move to either LAX or SFO instead of n/s from ORD, DFW, ATL, SLC, CVG, IAH.

LAX and SFO (SEA, LAS and DEN are also very large) are by far the largest O&D markets to Hawaii from the U.S. mainland. There is a much greater prospect for getting premium paying passengers to the islands from these two airports, and less "fire-sale" fares negotiated by travel companies and tour operators.
Funny thing however, every so often a thread on a.net will pop-up about direct LHR-HNL service.  biggrin 
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CitrusCritter
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 20):
Has HA ever considered turning HNL into a massive trans-Pacific connecting hub? They could serve secondary cities in both the United States and Asia with 73Gs or 752s from HNL (admittedly, the 757 can't reach many Asian cities from HNL) and funnel them through to the other side of the ocean.



Quoting Laxintl (Reply 22):
Quoting OB1504 (Reply 20):
Has HA ever considered turning HNL into a massive trans-Pacific connecting hub?

The day Hawaii could be sold as a Pacific hub are long gone.

With aircraft that can overfly Hawaii and connect markets directly, one is not going to find many people willing to detour via Hawaii.
A good example is HA's SYD service. The carrier has to go to great lenghts on the mainland to market the SYD flight with offers of free stopovers and even interisland flights to try to attract people away from the nonstop West Coast-South Pacific options. Such incentives come both at a cost and reduced yields.

If you consider secondary cities as OB1504 suggested, there is an untapped markets. American airlines are mainly interested in serving PVG and PEK in China for instance. There are many other cities in China that American travelers need to get to, and one-stop in HNL to these markets might be doable. Of course, the question is whether there is an appropriate aircraft.
 
LAXintl
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 44):
There are many other cities in China that American travelers need to get to, and one-stop in HNL to these markets might be doable

HA had previously applied with the DOT for 2006 China award. The airline this time around declined to apply for the 2007-2009 awards citing lack of perceived demand for Hawaii travel primarily due to the continued US Visa requirements on Chinese travelers.

Clearly HA does not feel China will be a market that presents opportunity for the airline in the near term.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:07 am

Part of the issue with East Coast - Hawaii trips having less overall demand is the nature of a trip.
Its is very impractical, if not extremely difficult to go from an East Coast / Midwest City to Hawaii for a long weekend. Few people go to Hawaii from these places for anything less than a week.

The average American is taken fewer and shorter vacations. Fewer people are taking a week or two at a time and instead opt to go on more 3-4 day trips instead.

Considering, you lose almost an entire to travel going westbound (morning departure from the mainland (very early if a connection is involved) and arrive in Hawaii in the afternoon. By the time you get luggage, ground transportation and checked-in to the hotel the day is essentially through - along with your body being up to 6 time zones off.
Return trips almost all require a red-eye flight.

The Carribean, Florida, & Mexico are a lot easier to do a 3-4 night trip, without losing entire days to travel or the jet-lag. The converse is true on the West Coast. Hawaii very easy to do for 3-4 nights, another reason why there is that much more demand than on the East Coast.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 46):
The average American is taken fewer and shorter vacations. Fewer people are taking a week or two at a time and instead opt to go on more 3-4 day trips instead.

 checkmark  Canadians on the other hand love to spend 2-2.5 weeks at a time in a tropical destination each winter. One option HA might look at is YVR service (ore even YYC or YEG) since Harmony is no longer around. They could actually compete fairly well with AC in this market, and with the USD/CAD $$$ exchange being now at about .95/1.04, more Canadians in B.C. and Alberta are starting to look at winter tropical holidays in Hawaii once again after a fall off starting in the late 1990s through 2005.
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LAXintl
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:50 am

Aloha tried and dropped YVR back in 2005. While the market dynamics have changed somewhat Canada-Hawaii has tended to be the domain of charters with passengers on package holidays.
I'm not sure how HA would fair in such a market running 250 seats chasing seat only sales or being forced to capitulate to low yield package traffic instead.
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CitrusCritter
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RE: Is HA Ever Expanding To The East

Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 45):
citing lack of perceived demand for Hawaii travel primarily due to the continued US Visa requirements on Chinese travelers.

Indeed, but as I have pointed out in other HA threads, they have to look beyond Hawaii as everyone's final destination. AS is not based around Alaska anymore, but around SEA. HA needs to carve out a mainland niche, and for secondary markets in Asia, they could still use an HNL hub.