USADreamliner
Topic Author
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:33 pm

AR Flight "postponed" And Not "cancelled"?!?

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:44 am

I was reading about the chaos at Madrid airport because of the delays of 3 or 4 Aerolineas Argentinas flights, some passengers had to wait up to 72 hours, with almost zero explanation from the airline, except that one aircraft was in maintenance.

And then I readed something: " Aerolineas is not going to compensate the passengers, because the flights were "postponed" and not "cancelled" !

According to IATA, or OACI or whatever rules, airlines are obligated to compensate their passengers ONLY if the flights are cancelled, not if they are postponed.


Waiting for 72 hours and nothing??? This is a joke!!?
 
FLYGUY767
Posts: 1441
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 11:26 pm

RE: AR Flight "postponed" And Not "cancelled"?!?

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting USADreamliner (Thread starter):
I was reading about the chaos at Madrid airport because of the delays of 3 or 4 Aerolineas Argentinas flights, some passengers had to wait up to 72 hours, with almost zero explanation from the airline, except that one aircraft was in maintenance.

The joys of a once good airline maximizing their fleet and spreading resources so thin that catastrophes such as the Madrid "Postpone" can happen at anytime.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: AR Flight "postponed" And Not "cancelled"?!?

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting USADreamliner (Thread starter):
According to IATA, or OACI or whatever rules, airlines are obligated to compensate their passengers ONLY if the flights are cancelled, not if they are postponed.

This is not an IATA rule, but an European Commission Regulation (EC 261 on denied boarding, cancellation and long delays).

The provisions on cancellations are intended to disuade 'commercial cancellation' - when an airline decides not to operate a flight (or flights) for commercial reasons. In this case the passenger is entitled to refund or rerouting to final destination. In addition to assistance (meals, refreshments and hotel if appropriate) the passenger is entitled to compensation.

In the case of long delays - such as what you refer to - the passengers are entitled to assistance - meals, refreshments and hotel if appropriate) but not to compensation. Most in the industry would agree it is not a good idea to encourage the operation of a flight that may be unsave to avoid the payment of the significant compensation amounts set out in the Regulation. i.e. eur600 per passenger.

AR is responsible for 'assistance' in these cases and could be fined significant amounts by the Spanish authorities if they do not provide this. These alone will be significant.
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am

RE: AR Flight "postponed" And Not "cancelled"?!?

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 2):
AR is responsible for 'assistance' in these cases and could be fined significant amounts by the Spanish authorities if they do not provide this.

Which AR did, they assisted their customers with food, hotel and everything else.

Quoting USADreamliner (Thread starter):
Waiting for 72 hours and nothing??? This is a joke!!?

I don't know where did you get this information from. But AR covered the customers expenses and provided them with hotels.

It's unfortunate when 2 of 3 747-400s breakdown. AXF, being the most reliable was the one that messed it up badly - and the regular MX visitor, -BBU. Mechanical failures can happen, but this delay clearly shows how poorly managed AR's fleet is.

Gastón - The MD11junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
USADreamliner
Topic Author
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:33 pm

RE: AR Flight "postponed" And Not "cancelled"?!?

Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 3):
I don't know where did you get this information from. But AR covered the customers expenses and provided them with hotels.

Yes, they received hotel acomodations and multiple free transfers from the hotel to the airport.
People are demanding compensation for the time lost. I know they received hotel and food... but they want to fly!!!
And I saw it on tv, passengers were yelling, complaining and one brazilean passenger suffered a nervous breakdown (before she verbally and phisically attacked one AR employee).
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am

RE: AR Flight "postponed" And Not "cancelled"?!?

Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 4):
one brazilean passenger suffered a nervous breakdown (before she verbally and phisically attacked one AR employee)

I don't understand this effing attitude.

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 4):
People are demanding compensation for the time lost

Ok, so let them waste their time. AR is known for having lousy Customer Service and not responding to those complaints. It's a mechanical failure of TWO airplanes. That's something unfortunate, and they GOT to their destination, finally.

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 4):
And I saw it on tv, passengers were yelling, complaining

Passengers don't really understand what they are dealing with. They want to get out on a broken plane if possible. But it's also true, that the airline did NOT provide information in a timely manner and did react a little late, trying to see if the plane's problems were 'fixable'.

AR seriously needs a new PR department.

Gastón - The MD11junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
PHKLM
Posts: 788
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:28 pm

RE: AR Flight "postponed" And Not "cancelled"?!?

Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 5):

AR seriously needs a new PR department.

What about planes?
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am

RE: AR Flight "postponed" And Not "cancelled"?!?

Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 6):

What about planes?

Already getting them.

Today at 5am, LV-BIT an A340-300 arrived this morning from YUL. msn 048 is next. Our third A310 is on mx in Germany.
Two AR board members are looking at JM's A340s since they are dropping their England routes. If AR gets them, it'll halt their 4th A310.

Gastón - The MD11junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

RE: AR Flight "postponed" And Not "cancelled"?!?

Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:15 am

Quoting USADreamliner (Thread starter):
And then I readed something: " Aerolineas is not going to compensate the passengers, because the flights were "postponed" and not "cancelled" !

One thing comes to my mind.........if they did "postpone" and not "cancel", does it mean that they were able to recover from a 72 hr back log just having one out of three 744's?

I don't know how often AR flies MAD-EZE but if it's daily or 5-6xweekly I would like someone to explain to me how AR got out of it without cancelling at least one flight.
744,742,741,772,773,762,732,735,738,752,727,717,DC10,DC9,M82,M87,319,320,321,343,346,L1011,CRJ2,CRJ9,E190,ATR42,DSH8,
 
MD11junkie
Posts: 2499
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 4:59 am

RE: AR Flight "postponed" And Not "cancelled"?!?

Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 8):
I don't know how often AR flies MAD-EZE but if it's daily or 5-6xweekly I would like someone to explain to me how AR got out of it without cancelling at least one flight.

11x-14x weekly, depending on the season.

And no, they did charter A7 planes for two flights. The other two were done using own metal (A340s and the remaining 744).

Gastón - The MD11junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: AR Flight "postponed" And Not "cancelled"?!?

Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:11 pm

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 4):
People are demanding compensation for the time lost.

If they feel that strongly they retain the right (under the Montreal Convention - which replaced Warsaw) to seek this compensation through the courts.

I wish them luck, given the conditions of carriage, and conditions of contract that AR must provide. Most airlines undertake to operate to schedule but I don't think any guarantee it.

Those that bought flexible tickets (and yes I know they cost a lot more) were likely rerouted on other airlines but those who bought cheap restricted tickets should not be surprised with what happened in this case. Passengers who absolutely have to be at a certain place at a certain time should not buy the cheapest ticket available - it is not the best choice for what they require.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4651
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: AR Flight "postponed" And Not "cancelled"?!?

Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:21 pm

Quoting MD11junkie (Reply 5):
Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 4):
one brazilean passenger suffered a nervous breakdown (before she verbally and phisically attacked one AR employee)

I don't understand this effing attitude.

I understand being somewhat upset with the situation, especially if one is travelling with children, but to take it out on someone who had nothing to do with the situation is ridiculous. A nervous breakdown?!?!?!? Someone was spoiled as a kid.

I'd consider being stuck somewhere an adventure.... maybe that's why they call us A-nutters!
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way

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