PlaneGuy27
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Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:15 pm

Not expecting this one.

New Daily 738 service to begin March 2008
already in the schedules

Eastbound LAX 2300 IAD 0645+1
Westbound IAD 0800 LAX 1020
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:32 pm

Definitely surprising. DL doesn't seem to have any type of focus city at IAD, though this could have something to do with their recent growth at LAX.

JetBluefan1
 
AA7295
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:40 pm

Wow, they've taken on a traditional UA route. Is it expected that they will take up more routes outside of their traditional realm.

Regards,
AA7295
 
CALMSP
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:49 pm

can we see some domestic 747-400 service in the future as a response??  Smile

that would be my dream!!
 
LAXintl
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:52 pm

Long time till March...

By then you'll probably have Virgin America in the market as well, so who knows if the DL route will come to fruition. This could just be DL simply signaling its intention to see if there are any competitive responses.

Anyhow the LA-DC route is competitive already with pricing pressure from Jetblue at LGB and also has other options including Alaska's unique nonstop to DCA plus BWI services as well.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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fxramper
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:54 pm

AA will get some competition with there 2x daily 738 and 1x daily 762 on this route.

Good for DL.
 
SANFan
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
Long time till March...
By then you'll probably have Virgin America in the market as well, so who knows if the DL route will come to fruition.

Yes, LAX-IAD starts Oct 24 on Virgin, and 2x daily! Very strange move by Delta -- maybe for future int'l considerations from Dulles to the Orient and/or South Pacific via LAX?

bb
 
modesto2
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:14 pm

DL has shown a renewed commitment to LAX recently with additional mainline and RJ service. Let's hope this IAD route is just the beginning of additional growth.
 
Boston92
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:20 pm

This should only affect UA for the LAX-IAD O&D traffic and a small dent at most.
"Why does a slight tax increase cost you $200 and a substantial tax cut save you 30 cents?"
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:35 pm

Quoting PlaneGuy27 (Thread starter):
Not expecting this one.

New Daily 738 service to begin March 2008
already in the schedules

Thought this route was taken by UA and AA already...

UA 8x daily n/s:

UA324 752
UA946 777
UA966 A319
UA216 A319
UA924 752
UA210 A319
UA082 763
UA214 752

AA 3x daily n/s:

AA076 762
AA144 738
AA074 738

Yeah that will be a great route for them to fly....

IMO... DL will drop it with-in 6months.

[Edited 2007-08-09 07:38:53]
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apodino
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:38 pm

This isn't unlike a similar route in BOS, where both UA and AA run several flights to LAX from, and DL runs the late afternnon 737-800 on. Of course, Delta has always had a presence in BOS, until now IAD had been pretty much hub service only. Definitely surprised by this one.

Anyone see WN jumping on this route, or is the route adequately served from BWI?
 
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fxramper
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):

Copy that. Failing to see their strategy here. Time will tell if it works.

  

I thought DL was taken the 738 delivery to turn around and resell them.

What the deuce?

 confused 

[Edited 2007-08-09 07:43:33]
 
iaddca
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:44 pm

LAX is the #1 destination from IAD, with 540,000 annual pax one way. But DL will be the #4 carrier to take on the route, and one little 738 is going to get swept away by the 5 daily heavies from UA and AA. And none of this considers the 4 A320s B6 sends everyday down the road to LGB.
 
tommy767
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:45 pm

Quoting Apodino (Reply 10):
This isn't unlike a similar route in BOS, where both UA and AA run several flights to LAX

UA is 2x BOS-LAX in the fall. I think they used to fly a few more frequencies in the past.

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):
AA 3x daily n/s:

AA076 762
AA144 738
AA074 738

Right, but by the fall this routes goes back to 2x 738, 1x 752.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:47 pm

Quoting FXramper (Reply 11):
I thought DL was taken the 738 delivery to turn around and resell them.

only 30 of the 50 on order

good luck to DL on this route
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
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CV880
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:53 pm

Quoting FXramper (Reply 11):
I thought DL was taken the 738 delivery to turn around and resell them.

According to delta.com, the 738 fleet is currently 71....I believe that some of the ones on order were sold to other carriers, but there are still plenty of orders and options.

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 12):
LAX is the #1 destination from IAD, with 540,000 annual pax one way. But DL will be the #4 carrier to take on the route, and one little 738 is going to get swept away by the 5 daily heavies from UA and AA. And none of this considers the 4 A320s B6 sends everyday down the road to LGB.

Probably a bit more to it than competing with UA or AA.....perhaps feed to unknown flights out of LAX next spring or summer?
 
SESGDL
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:56 pm

Quoting FXramper (Reply 11):
Copy that. Failing to see their strategy here. Time will tell if it works.

It's going to be a red-eye, which is less risky then a daytime flight as it utilizes an aircraft that would potentially be sitting overnight at LAX.

This is part of DL's strategy to grow at LAX, not any type of retaliation or response; they simply can't have a good LAX operation without service to the major cities. Let's see if they add ORD service, that would be a real surprise. Their success will depend upon how much growth occurs at LAX in the months ahead, as they will surely be looking at a good mix of O&D passengers and connecting passengers. DL is a strong player at LAX though, with soon close to 100 daily flights to over 50 destinations and they have a strong FF base there. The flight's (currently) not timed for flights to Hawaii so it doesn't offer much in the way of connections at the moment, but we shall see. DL is really trying hard to become a stronger LAX carrier, they intend on LAX being one of their hubs soon, with the lineup like this: ATL, CVG, SLC, JFK, and LAX being DL's hubs. I wish them success!

Jeremy
 
iaddca
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:03 pm

Quoting Apodino (Reply 10):

Anyone see WN jumping on this route, or is the route adequately served from BWI?

With VX and DL, IAD-LA Area will be 19 flights, while BWI will have just 4 - 2 UA, 2 WN.

Issue with BWI is the weak O&D Demographics of Baltimore City, Baltimore County, Harford, and Anne Arundel relative to DC and Northern Virginia. This is one reason why it has very little TATL service, and the one LHR BA 767 service it is clinging onto is subsidized by the state of MD. And since WN and B6 came to IAD, and F9 to DCA, far fewer Northern Virginians are trekking all the way to BWI to catch a WN flight.

So WN isn't really serving DC-SoCal market anymore with a BWI-LAX flight. I like their IAD-MDW service, but to take on 4 airlines at once, not to mention the slot restricted DCA-LAX AS run, would be unlike them.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:07 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 16):
It's going to be a red-eye, which is less risky then a daytime flight as it utilizes an aircraft that would potentially be sitting overnight at LAX.

Copy that. I still see UA handing them their butt.  yes 
 
Acey
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:10 pm

Quoting Apodino (Reply 10):
Anyone see WN jumping on this route, or is the route adequately served from BWI?

WN is in the process of eliminating transcon and some near transcon flights. LAX/OAK-BWI will bite the dust.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
iaddca
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:34 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 19):
LAX/OAK-BWI will bite the dust

I refer to BWI as a bus station with runways - great for cheap fares to Columbus and Nashville, but nothing much happening besides that. WN is 54% of their traffic, and of BWI's top 10 destinations - all are East of the Miss. except for DFW. PVD is #4 and MHT is #6 - basically routes work out of BWI when WN can stimulate demand with low prices. So if they abandon BWI-Calif, no guarantee UA or AA will pick up the slack for them.

DL picking up LAX-BWI would be even more senseless than their LAX-IAD run, unless they want no F or J passengers, and few business travelers in Y.
 
JRDC930
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:08 pm

Finally another choice to fly to IAD nonstop, i wont have to endure UA's or AA's service anymore ... YAY!  cloudnine  A little competition is never a bad thing... However the only reason i can for this service seems to be their expansion at LAX, i only hope this is a sign of more expansion...(wishful thinking maybe, but one can hope!)
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:57 pm

As said above, give it about six months and they will probably pull the flight!
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:46 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 16):
DL is a strong player at LAX though, with soon close to 100 daily flights to over 50 destinations and they have a strong FF base there

Not only that, but what is also a fact that has not been mentioned among all the "Delta will pull out in less than 6 months"-talk is that Delta also has quite a sizeable FF base in the D.C. area as well that could be very interested in this flight. Yes, the majority of DL's presence is at DCA, but since DL can't fly DCA-LAX, IAD-LAX it is. Surprising move, but combining the facts of relatively low utilization costs and nice FF bases at both ends of the route, this flight actually stands a chance against the competition.
 
panamair
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:46 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 1):
Definitely surprising



Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 1):
this could have something to do with their recent growth at LAX.



Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):
Very strange move by Delta



Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):
Yeah that will be a great route for them to fly....

IMO... DL will drop it with-in 6months.

Of course it has to do with the LAX buildup, you guys realize that DL's LAX ops has grown to over 50 domestic and international cities from 10-15 less than a year ago; the total number of daily flights offered (both DL and Connection) has just about doubled in less than a year...this is just another spoke in the LAX network......

...many of you are also acting as if this is the first time that DL has entered a competitive market out of LAX....do you think that SFO, SEA, DEN, PHX, LAS are all a walk in the park? There will be more....and as usual, there will be more predictions of doom and disaster on the ever-wise a.net... Yeah sure At the end of the day, many will work and some won't...but so far, most of the domestic expansion at LAX is progressing decently.

And yet, when VX announces LAX-IAD with no base on either end and as a completely new entrant, nobody says they will be run out of town by UA or AA in the market??? Product-wise, DL will be offering at least a very competitive product both front and back...the 738s being deployed will be equipped with the Song-PTVs at each seat and by then, DL transcon First will also be back to proper silverware, real glasses, choice of meals, an amenity packet, etc., and Coach will have BOB....certainly a better product than UA or AA and more than competitive with VX...

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 2):
Wow, they've taken on a traditional UA route.

Just like LAX-SFO / LAS / PHX / SEA / DEN / HNL / OGG / JFK / BOS, etc., and yes, there will be more to come...
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:48 pm

They shouldn't have trouble filling this flight, but it isn't like they are going to become a major player in the market with one daily. This is a huge market here, even though it was a huge market when America West tried it too.

Here's hoping a daily 738 to Miami is on the way.
a.
 
fewsolarge
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:12 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 1):
this could have something to do with their recent growth at LAX.

Ya think?

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):
IMO... DL will drop it with-in 6months.

I wouldn't expect this kind of route until the hub had more maturity, and particularly, something to offer in terms of connections that UA didn't. Unless there are more route announcements to bulk up and build a ridership in LA, I just don't see how they're going to capture a significant segment of this market yet.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:46 pm

It's not about trying to compete with UA/VX/AA - it's about properly building up the LAX focus city for things to come.

Look at JFK and replicate on a smaller scale.

Have to admit, love the "doomsday" predictions.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 24):
Product-wise, DL will be offering at least a very competitive product both front and back...the 738s being deployed will be equipped with the Song-PTVs at each seat and by then, DL transcon First will also be back to proper silverware, real glasses, choice of meals, an amenity packet, etc.,

Sure as hell beats today's corn and mushroom options  Wink
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:50 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
By then you'll probably have Virgin America in the market as well, so who knows if the DL route will come to fruition. This could just be DL simply signaling its intention to see if there are any competitive responses.

You are crazy if you think DL is going to deviate from their plan because some start-up will be in the market. DL announced this route because it plans to fly it.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 18):

Copy that. I still see UA handing them their butt. yes

Of course UA will dominate this market. But if Delta wants to grow long term at LAX, it needs to fly to the major O&D's. This is a start. Red eye flying has a very low ROI threshold. They simply need to cover the direct operating costs (crew, fuel, catering, etc) to make it a good thing to do. Given Delta's size in both the L.A. and Washington regions, this shouldn't be an impossible task. They aren't trying to beat UA, they are trying to build a hub for the future. These little steps must happen.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
They shouldn't have trouble filling this flight, but it isn't like they are going to become a major player in the market with one daily. This is a huge market here, even though it was a huge market when America West tried it too.

Exactly. The difference is that DL is not America West!  Wink
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:39 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 16):
This is part of DL's strategy to grow at LAX, not any type of retaliation or response; they simply can't have a good LAX operation without service to the major cities.

Slowly over the last couple of years we've seen DL add some mainline service to LAX to places like RDU, TPA, JAX, FLL, MCO, MSY, BOS, JFK (5x now on 752s) and CMH, all without the stop in SLC, ATL or CVG. These are all areas where DL has had large contingencies of frequent fliers, combined with Western's base of frequent fliers DL inherited two decades ago that are in Southern California. I don't see any difference in trying IAD, especially since DCA isn't available to them from LAX. It would be nice if the Western days could return for DL at LAX, but that was a generation ago and industry dynamics have changed considerably.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
Here's hoping a daily 738 to Miami is on the way.

I think PBI and SJU could work from LAX for DL as well from this region.

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 20):
DL picking up LAX-BWI would be even more senseless than their LAX-IAD run, unless they want no F or J passengers, and few business travelers in Y.

I have to differ here as well and sense if DL could start off with a 738 red-eye similar to what they are going to do with IAD, they could make inroads into this market as well. A DL 738 on red-eye is much more comfortable than a WN "Cattle-Carrier" even at that hour and as Jetlanta eluded to above:

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 28):
   Red eye flying has a very low ROI threshold. They simply need to cover the direct operating costs (crew, fuel, catering, etc) to make it a good thing to do. Given Delta's size in both the L.A. and Washington regions, this shouldn't be an impossible task. They aren't trying to beat UA, they are trying to build a hub for the future. These little steps must happen.

I think DL has the right network planning and operations people nowadays, something they lacked for some years after the merger.

[Edited 2007-08-09 16:08:25]
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
B752OS
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 13):
Quoting Apodino (Reply 10):
This isn't unlike a similar route in BOS, where both UA and AA run several flights to LAX

UA is 2x BOS-LAX in the fall. I think they used to fly a few more frequencies in the past.

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 9):
AA 3x daily n/s:

AA076 762
AA144 738
AA074 738

Right, but by the fall this routes goes back to 2x 738, 1x 752.



Quoting Iaddca (Reply 17):
With VX and DL, IAD-LA Area will be 19 flights, while BWI will have just 4 - 2 UA, 2 WN.

You have to admit, UA probably sees a good amount of connecting traffic on the IAD-LAX run everyday along with AA to sustain 19 flights a day and between 2,000-2,500 daily pax.

I think DL will get killed on this route, only offering 1 x daily flight. Both AA and UA are already well established out in LAX and have solid Hawaii networks to back up for connecting pax as well as a whole load of western US destinations to catch connecting pax as well.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
Here's hoping a daily 738 to Miami is on the way.

Wouldn't DL be content with their single daily n/s flight to FLL where it is a level playing field? DL would probably get killed on LAX-MIA, where AA dominates with zero competition.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 1):
Definitely surprising. DL doesn't seem to have any type of focus city at IAD, though this could have something to do with their recent growth at LAX

It has everything to do with the growth in the Los Angeles market with Delta Air Lines. The plan from what I have heard is to have the flight up to 2x per day late 2008. Both flights would be operated with the 737-800 service. There is also talk that Delta Air Lines may start 737-800 service from Los Angeles to Philadelphia, Nashville, and Chicago.ORD. In any case stay tuned the Delta Air Lines route planning team is hard at work..

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:01 pm

Why is this so surprising? It's low risk flying like BDL or JAX but to an actual city with actual demand to LAX.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
iaddca
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:09 pm

I remember how expensive this route was in the 90s, so if nothing else we'll get great fares. Cheaper to fly from DC to LA now than take an Acela train to DC to NY.

I understand they want to turn LAX into a bigger focus city, but don't see what their hook is, other than internal dissatisfaction with SLC as western hub.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 31):
It has everything to do with the growth in the Los Angeles market with Delta Air Lines. The plan from what I have heard is to have the flight up to 2x per day late 2008. Both flights would be operated with the 737-800 service. There is also talk that Delta Air Lines may start 737-800 service from Los Angeles to Philadelphia, Nashville, and Chicago.ORD. In any case stay tuned the Delta Air Lines route planning team is hard at work..

The SLC flights to PHL (2x 752 per day) are always full, and BNA has been successful with an MD-90 even beyond what they originally thought could work, and even ORD draws many fliers from the greater L.A. area through the SLC hub, who are DL frequent fliers and don't wish to be on UA or AA. As I see it, one key fundamental nowadays for large O&D markets is less reliance on hub connecting mainline service to point to point service, even on smaller mainline aircraft provided they have the dynamics to perform the mission. DL's 738 fleet has done this as well and made such flights possible. SLC and CVG are hubs that funnel CRJ passengers onto mainline flights. This is their first and foremost mission from their respective greater regions for DL. Something LAX nor JFK can do effectively for them.

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 33):
I understand they want to turn LAX into a bigger focus city, but don't see what their hook is, other than internal dissatisfaction with SLC as western hub.

 irked  Read my last two sentences above, and you'll understand why SLC is a hub for DL. That said I'll sound like a broken record again for new a.netters, but many fail to see the size and scope of SLC and underestimate it's abilities. It might not have the O&D passengers of larger areas such as DEN, PHX or LAS, but it is growing, and for the record approximately half of all passengers going through SLC are Wasatch Front O&D people.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 33):
I remember how expensive this route was in the 90s, so if nothing else we'll get great fares. Cheaper to fly from DC to LA now than take an Acela train to DC to NY.

Not necessarily while it's a redeye. Daylight flights generally have a premium over redeyes, so competing redeyes will likely get cheaper.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
b777a340fan
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:53 am

Too long of a trip to fly on a 738. I would never fly.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 36):
Too long of a trip to fly on a 738. I would never fly.

American Airlines flies it daily with a mix including 737-800

United Airlines flies it daily with a mix including A319

The flying public outside of A.net doesnt care, it gets them from A to B..

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
socalatc
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 36):
Too long of a trip to fly on a 738. I would never fly.

Alaska has been doing it for a couple years now (LAX-DCA) They started on a 737-700 now since been upgraded to a -800. People do not seem to mind, and the flights are always full.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:33 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 36):
Too long of a trip to fly on a 738. I would never fly.

DL does several eastern seaboard destinations on a 738 from SLC (RDU, IAD both come to mind). Even when it is a full impacted flight, a DL 738 is much more comfortable than a WN 737NG "Cattle-Carrier."
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
HVNandrew
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:40 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 39):
DL does several eastern seaboard destinations on a 738 from SLC (RDU, IAD both come to mind). Even when it is a full impacted flight, a DL 738 is much more comfortable than a WN 737NG "Cattle-Carrier."

Many of DL's mainline flights out of LAX to the east coast are operated with the 738, including BOS, BDL, JAX, and now MCO.
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 26):
I wouldn't expect this kind of route until the hub had more maturity

...but how then would you expect the hub to "have more maturity" without this kind of route?  Wink
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:59 am

Alitalia744 and Jetlanta's analysis seems right to me on this one. DL has had success building their focus/ feed operation at JFK (success some of us doubted when the buildup began) and it makes sense that they would pursue a similar option at LAX which has important similarities to JFK: huge O & D market, good anchor for international flights, fragmented market.

A DL 738 on red-eye is much more comfortable than a WN "Cattle-Carrier" even at that hour.

Howzat? DL Boeing 737: seat pitch 32." WN Boeing 737: seat pitch 32"-33." I've been on several 32"-pitch carriers and try as I might I can't tell any difference.

I refer to BWI as a bus station with runways - great for cheap fares to Columbus and Nashville, but nothing much happening besides that. WN is 54% of their traffic, and of BWI's top 10 destinations - all are East of the Miss. except for DFW. PVD is #4 and MHT is #6 - basically routes work out of BWI when WN can stimulate demand with low prices. So if they abandon BWI-Calif, no guarantee UA or AA will pick up the slack for them.

Call BWI what you like. I live in the District and have used BWI for several business trips over the past year, and have avoided Dulles like the plague. BWI has far better ground transportation with MARC, much better terminal layout, better parking options (gee, let's not build a garage in the IAD "Bowl" for the pretty photo view of Saarinen's terminal, and then take up all the close space with valet parking) . And I don't get a Barbie Jet, either.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:59 am

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 33):
I understand they want to turn LAX into a bigger focus city, but don't see what their hook is, other than internal dissatisfaction with SLC as western hub.

I'm not sure I follow this statement. What internal dissatisfaction is there with the SLC hub??? SLC is an excellent hub for Delta, and is being regularly expanded these days. The LAX hub isn't going to replace any of SLC's flying.
Good goes around!
 
IADCA
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 38):
Alaska has been doing it for a couple years now (LAX-DCA) They started on a 737-700 now since been upgraded to a -800. People do not seem to mind, and the flights are always full

A lot of that has to do with the fact that it comes into DCA. For a lot of people, the extra time (and money) you spend getting from IAD to DC proper is not worth it for getting on a 752 instead of a 73G or 738, and a lot of the LAX-IAD frequencies are 738s, 319s, or with B6 to LGB, 320s.

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 20):
I refer to BWI as a bus station with runways - great for cheap fares to Columbus and Nashville, but nothing much happening besides that. WN is 54% of their traffic, and of BWI's top 10 destinations - all are East of the Miss. except for DFW. PVD is #4 and MHT is #6 - basically routes work out of BWI when WN can stimulate demand with low prices. So if they abandon BWI-Calif, no guarantee UA or AA will pick up the slack for them.

100% true. I might more charitably call it a whistle-stop on the Northeast train system, but bus station with runways works well too.

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 33):
I remember how expensive this route was in the 90s, so if nothing else we'll get great fares. Cheaper to fly from DC to LA now than take an Acela train to DC to NY.

I understand they want to turn LAX into a bigger focus city, but don't see what their hook is, other than internal dissatisfaction with SLC as western hub.

Flying Y on a redeye to IAD and Acela from Union Station to Penn Station is absolutely apples and oranges. A more even comparison would be the "cattle class" trains which are still much more comfortable than any airline's Y class, and on the WAS-NYC route, unbeatably convenient, even over DCA-LGA.

I think their hook on this particular route out of LAX is dissatisfaction with UA more than anything else. Good choice on the username, by the way
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FlyPNS1
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 39):
Even when it is a full impacted flight, a DL 738 is much more comfortable than a WN 737NG "Cattle-Carrier."

Why is that? In coach, the seat width for both carriers is the same and WN actually has more seat pitch (33-34" vs 32").

As others have said, this route (like much of DL's LAX expansion) is pretty low-risk. It probably won't make much money, but it shouldn't lose much either.
 
halls120
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 37):
Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 36):
Too long of a trip to fly on a 738. I would never fly.

American Airlines flies it daily with a mix including 737-800

United Airlines flies it daily with a mix including A319

The flying public outside of A.net doesnt care, it gets them from A to B..

Concur. I fly IAD/SFO and IAD/LAX all the time, and the only advantage to flying on a bigger plane is the easier upgrade opportunity.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
jetlanta
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 33):

I understand they want to turn LAX into a bigger focus city, but don't see what their hook is, other than internal dissatisfaction with SLC as western hub.

The hook is that it is this is one of the largest O&D markets in the U.S. and Delta is the nation's third largest airline with major customer constituencies on both ends.

In 2006, UA boarded about 3.5M O&D passengers at DCA/IAD, AA boarded about 1.75M and DL boarded 1.35M.

For Delta, that is about 3,700 passengers a day.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 45):
Why is that? In coach, the seat width for both carriers is the same and WN actually has more seat pitch (33-34" vs 32").

Let's just call it preference for this:

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 46):
Concur. I fly IAD/SFO and IAD/LAX all the time, and the only advantage to flying on a bigger plane is the easier upgrade opportunity.

The 738 is a bigger aircraft than the 737NG, and is less  crowded  on a 5+ hour trans-con' flight. I think WN couldn't get the results wanted on BWI-LAX/OAK due to people getting a little more claustrophobic after 3-3.5 hours on one of their aircraft. WN service is more cut out for 3-4 hours maximum, but usually is much less. I don't think you'll see them attempt such trans-con's for awhile now.

Quoting IADCA (Reply 44):
I think their hook on this particular route out of LAX is dissatisfaction with UA more than anything else.

 checkmark  Couldn't be better said! But as also noted above, DL does smell some opportunity that they calculate the risk makes it worth the try.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Delta To Begin IAD-LAX

Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:27 am

The 738 is a bigger aircraft than the 737NG, and is less on a 5+ hour trans-con' flight. I think WN couldn't get the results wanted on BWI-LAX/OAK due to people getting a little more claustrophobic after 3-3.5 hours on one of their aircraft. WN service is more cut out for 3-4 hours maximum, but usually is much less. I don't think you'll see them attempt such trans-con's for awhile now.

Hmm....one plane is a few rows longer than the other...less claustrophobic, right. Who outside of Airliners.net or a DL hub partisan is going to notice that?  Wink The most creative analysis of WN's withdrawal from BWI transcons I've heard yet.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)