OldAeroGuy
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Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:07 am

As of 7 August, the 777 family has had 94 net sales in 2007.

This is the fourth best 777 sales year on record.

The other best years are:

2005: 153
2000: 116
1995: 101

With over four months left to go this year, where will 2007 rank in terms of total 777 sales?
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
EI321
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:27 am

05 will be hard to beat but so far so good.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:53 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Thread starter):
As of 7 August, the 777 family has had 94 net sales in 2007.



Quoting EI321 (Reply 1):
05 will be hard to beat but so far so good.

Will probably not beat 05, but might very well be the 2nd best year for the B777.. biggrin ......
"Up the Irons!"
 
thering
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:58 am

2nd best I think.... +-120/130 frames.... !!!  Smile
146 319 320 321 332 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 742 743 744 762 763 772 773 CRJ ER4 100 F50 F27 M11 D10
 
baron95
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:09 pm

How about breaking down sales for the 77L generation (the 77L, 77W, 77F)?

Can someone break the sales of those models by year from 2002 to 2007? I think 2007 may break the reccord for what I think off as the 777NG.

That is important because those planes are significantly more expensive and bring significantly more cash flow to Boeing and GE.

Thanks in advance if someone can provide the numbers.

[Edited 2007-08-10 07:10:20]
Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:53 pm

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 4):
Can someone break the sales of those models by year from 2002 to 2007? I think 2007 may break the reccord for what I think off as the 777NG.

Virtually any question about Boeing orders is pubically answerable from:
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...definedselection.cfm&pageid=m15527

If we assume "777-Classic" = 777-200/200ER/300 and "777NG" = 777-200LR/300ER/F, then the breakdown looks like this:

2002:
777-Classic: 19
777NG: 13

2003:
777-Classic: 9
777NG: 4

2004:
777-Classic: 14
777NG: 28

2005:
777-Classic: 10
777NG: 143

2006:
777-Classic: 1
777NG: 76

2007 (through July):
777-Classic: 9
777NG: 78

Tom.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:57 am

Boeing's orders for the week bring total 2007 777 orders to 96.

Six more orders to go for 2007 to pass 1995 as the third best 777 order year.

Ad only one more to go to reach 1000 777 sales.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:15 pm

Boeing's orders for the week bring total 2007 777 net firm orders to 100.

Two more orders to go for 2007 to pass 1995 as the third best 777 order year and seventeen more to pass 2000 as the second best year..
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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Stitch
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:11 am

I think her top year will be around 2010 or 2011, assuming the A350 is on schedule and on target. As the A350 soaks up orders and availability is pushed out, the 777 will enjoy the sales spurt the A330 is now under the same conditions for, like the A330, she will be the "next best" choice and airlines will still desire her to hold them over until they can get A350s. Also, Boeing is likely to get more aggressive with price, which will help sales as well.
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:05 am

The 41 unidentifieds is a considerable number in my view and quite a large share of year to date orders.. Was there any consensus on A-net which carrier might have ordered the 12 77W on July 31st.? Perhaps EK.?
 
raggi
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 9):
The 41 unidentifieds is a considerable number in my view and quite a large share of year to date orders.. Was there any consensus on A-net which carrier might have ordered the 12 77W on July 31st.? Perhaps EK.?

I believe these to be for AF to replace their 744s


raggi
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Stitch
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting Raggi (Reply 10):
I believe these (12 77Ws) to be for AF to replace their 744s

AF operates 12 744s/744Ms and they have bought 12 A388s to replace them one for one.

Also, AF already has 23 77Ws in service with 5 more on order. Would they need an additional 12? Unless they plan to replace their A343 fleet with them? But at that rate, why not get 787-8s/787-9s or A358s/A359s to replace their A332/A343 fleet together?
 
bmacleod
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:21 am

Don't think this year will surpass 2005, though it will easily pass 2000. NZ and NH had said they will replace their 744s with 777s. Wonder what SQ will do?

Hopefully more U.S. carriers will start to sign into the orderbooks once their financially woes have abated. I'm refferring to AA, UA and DL which has already ordered the 77L. (I'm passing over NW for obvious reasons but add CO to this list too...)
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
zvezda
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
I think her top year will be around 2010 or 2011

I expect the 777 sales record set in 2005 to stand forever and that 2007 will stand as the year of the 2nd highest sales. The 777 is waning.  tombstone 
 
PYP757
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):
The 777 is waning.   

What a strange conclusion! For a plane to sell more than 100 frames in one year, 13 years after its launch, that's a remarkable achievement. Definitely not waning...
 
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Stitch
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):
I expect the 777 sales record set in 2005 to stand forever and that 2007 will stand as the year of the 2nd highest sales. The 777 is waning.  tombstone 

Unless Boeing can get Y3 out the door by 2015, or the 787HGWs are both amazing and also available by 2015, I think the old gal still has life in her yet...  yes 
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 9):
The 41 unidentifieds is a considerable number in my view and quite a large share of year to date orders.. Was there any consensus on A-net which carrier might have ordered the 12 77W on July 31st.? Perhaps EK.?

Could be SQ exercising a few of their 13 options.

Is wouldn't be surprising since they have had the type in operation for about a year.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
zvezda
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting PYP757 (Reply 14):
For a plane to sell more than 100 frames in one year, 13 years after its launch, that's a remarkable achievement.

True.

Quoting PYP757 (Reply 14):
Definitely not waning...

The 777 is past the peak of her sales life. It's downhill from here. Or do you really think the 2005 sales record will be broken in the future?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Unless Boeing can get Y3 out the door by 2015

Zero chance.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
or the 787HGWs are both amazing and also available by 2015

This seems likely to happen.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 16):
Could be SQ exercising a few of their 13 options.

SQ have options for 6 WhaleJets, 13 777-300ERs, 20 A350s, and 20 787s. Of these, the 777-300ER has the advantage of being available soonest and the disadvantage of having the highest CASM.
 
raggi
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:57 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
Also, AF already has 23 77Ws in service with 5 more on order. Would they need an additional 12? Unless they plan to replace their A343 fleet with them? But at that rate, why not get 787-8s/787-9s or A358s/A359s to replace their A332/A343 fleet together?

If you look at Boeing's order site, AF has nine 777s on order. They have made several add-on orders, and I for one have lost track of them all, although I think they ordered 12 777s at LeBourget. Do a search.
I didn't say that those 12 you were referring to are positively destined for AF, I said I believe they are.

AF/ KL have not yet made a decision on the 350/787. Unless Airbus can get some GEs under the ThreeFiddy's wings, I'd say it smells like a 787 order.


raggi
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17):
SQ have options for 6 WhaleJets, 13 777-300ERs, 20 A350s, and 20 787s. Of these, the 777-300ER has the advantage of being available soonest and the disadvantage of having the highest CASM.

Can't argue. If they need the lift in the near term, the 773ER is the only game in town.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 13):
The 777 is waning

The 777F will be on the scene for quite a while though.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 17):
Of these, the 777-300ER has the advantage of being available soonest and the disadvantage of having the highest CASM.

A valid observation. My quite unscientific take is that SQ don't always operate by the letter of the CASM rule. Somewhere the yields for the routes that the type are expected to operate seem to get factored in and CASM's get tempered by this. Their seat density on the 77W is somewhat less than optimum and their 19" wide Y seat has to be almost decadent  yummy 
 
grantcv
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:18 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Unless Boeing can get Y3 out the door by 2015, or the 787HGWs are both amazing and also available by 2015, I think the old gal still has life in her yet...

If the 777 is an old gal, then surely the 737, 747, 767, A32X, A330, and A340 are all ancient. Other than airliners that have yet to EIS, what can be considered newer or more modern than a 777.
 
bringiton
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:45 pm

I think that boeing has a very good chance to top 2005 sales record this year .
 
zvezda
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:52 pm

Quoting Grantcv (Reply 21):
If the 777 is an old gal, then surely the 737, 747, 767, A32X, A330, and A340 are all ancient. Other than airliners that have yet to EIS, what can be considered newer or more modern than a 777.

We're talking about sales here, not deliveries. Replacements for the A320 and 737 are not on sale yet and won't be for a few more years. Replacements for the 777 i.e. the 787 and A350 have together already nearly caught up with the 777 in sales.

Airlines are ordering phenomenal numbers of 787s, already cutting into 777 sales. The expected announcement of the 787-10 will further limit 777 sales. Some 777s will probably still be flying in passenger service twenty years from now, but sales will be declining over the next several years.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:44 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 23):
Replacements for the 777 i.e. the 787 and A350 have together already nearly caught up with the 777 in sales.

Kind of irrelevent, when the bulk of 787 sales are for the 787-8 which isn't replacing a 777 model, and most of the airlines ordering the 787-9 so far will likely operate it in a 8Y configuration taking it out of competition with the 777, and a signficant number of A350 sales are for the A358.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
zvezda
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:59 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 24):
the 787-8 which isn't replacing a 777 model

I disagree. I expect many airlines will replace 777s with 787-8s by fragmenting markets and increasing frequencies. The 787-8 will offer lower CASM and higher RASM than the 777-200ER. It's a no-brainer replacement. The objective of the airlines is to make more money, not to carry more passengers.

Why do you think the 787-8 is selling so well? Only to replace A330s? Don't tell me they're mostly to replace 767s.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 24):
most of the airlines ordering the 787-9 so far will likely operate it in a 8Y configuration

That seems as unlikely as bowling alleys on the WhaleJet and for the same reason.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 24):
a signficant (sic) number of A350 sales are for the A358.

See above.

I will make a concrete, verifiable prediction. In no year later than 2010 will Boeing ever sell more than 50 passenger 777s.
 
vv701
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:38 pm

I am personally begining to think that the chances of the 777 at least featuring in the BA order to replace its 20 oldest 744s (as well as its fleet of 763s) are increasing.

We should soon find out. I expect that the order will be announced in the next five weeks.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 25):
I disagree. I expect many airlines will replace 777s with 787-8s by fragmenting markets and increasing frequencies. The 787-8 will offer lower CASM and higher RASM than the 777-200ER. It's a no-brainer replacement. The objective of the airlines is to make more money, not to carry more passengers.

Why do you think the 787-8 is selling so well? Only to replace A330s? Don't tell me they're mostly to replace 767s.

Because it is new and hits the portion of the widebody market that naturally has the largest demand. Despite the 787-8, the 777LR models have sold well, having a backlog that extends well past 787-8 EIS.


Quoting Zvezda (Reply 25):
I will make a concrete, verifiable prediction. In no year later than 2010 will Boeing ever sell more than 50 passenger 777s.

This isn't really that bold of a prediction. Irrespective of competing models, orders for older models drop significantly 6 to 7 years after EIS, as the backlog often pushes availability out several years after that. They only get a second wind if there is significant demand for new airframes due to some boom, like in the late 90s.

The current backlog is about 4 years at a production rate of 7/mo. If the 777 were to sell 60 aircraft on average for the next 3 years, then the backlog would extend to about mid 2013. If they were to sell 30 aircraft per year starting 2011, they would add another years backlog over 3 years, to 2014. That's a 10 year production run for the 777LR. Of course production rates will likely be reduced sometime in the early 2010s, so the working down of the backlog will probably take until 2015. After that, deliveries will likely be composed of 777Fs.
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grantcv
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 23):
Replacements for the 777 i.e. the 787 and A350 have together already nearly caught up with the 777 in sales.


The 787 is a sibling to the 777, not a replacement. While size of the larger models may encroach upon the 777, the 787's sales success have not been at the expense of the 777.

The A350XWB is not a replacement for the 777, it is a competitor to the 777. The A350XWB is more the replacement for the A340.

I imagine the 777 will be in production till around 2020 and will still be in limited service in the 2040's and beyond. I hope I will still be in service then.
 
planemaker
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:36 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 25):
Don't tell me they're mostly to replace 767s.

Obviously.
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777STL
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:12 am

Quoting Grantcv (Reply 28):
The 787 is a sibling to the 777, not a replacement. While size of the larger models may encroach upon the 777, the 787's sales success have not been at the expense of the 777.

Nevermind the fact that most of the 787 customers, either never ordered the 777 in the first place, or will be operating the 787 along side their pre-existing 777s. I don't know of any airlines off the top of my head that plan on replacing their 777s w/787s, in the near future.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 25):
I disagree. I expect many airlines will replace 777s with 787-8s by fragmenting markets and increasing frequencies. The 787-8 will offer lower CASM and higher RASM than the 777-200ER. It's a no-brainer replacement. The objective of the airlines is to make more money, not to carry more passengers.

Thta's really nothing more than a guess at this point. I wouldn't support my argument by using predictions.
PHX based
 
zvezda
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:59 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 30):
I don't know of any airlines off the top of my head that plan on replacing their 777s w/787s, in the near future.

SQ will be replacing 777s with 787s.
 
gbfra
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting Grantcv (Reply 28):
I imagine the 777 will be in production till around 2020 and will still be in limited service in the 2040's and beyond. I hope I will still be in service then.

The freighter, yes. The pax version, I doubt.
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
777STL
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:41 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 31):
SQ will be replacing 777s with 787s.

Maybe their -200s, their last new -300ER was received in June. I doubt those will be going anywhere any time soon.
PHX based
 
zvezda
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting 777STL (Reply 33):
Maybe their -200s, their last new -300ER was received in June. I doubt those will be going anywhere any time soon.

SQ have 68 777s in service, only the last 10 of which are 777-300ERs (not counting another 9 777-300ERs on order). It's a safe bet that SQ will replace their older 777s before their newer 777s.
 
ebj1248650
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Unless Boeing can get Y3 out the door by 2015, or the 787HGWs are both amazing and also available by 2015, I think the old gal still has life in her yet...

Boeing doesn't appear to be in any kind of hurry to get Y3 going. Whether this is because their current offerings will suffice in the near term or whether Boeing is expecting a change in the market and wants to tailor Y3 to those changes remains to be seen.

It would appear the 748 is an interim airplane, meant to fill the need for a very large airliner until Y3 comes into being. That the airlines may be waiting for the Y3 has been mentioned here before so I won't rehash that.

Does the 777 still have a lot of life in it? I'm very inclined to say it does ... and will have for some time, if nothing else as a result of orders for the freighter version ... and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the 773 be developed into a freighter in the not too distant future.
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
grantcv
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 35):
Boeing doesn't appear to be in any kind of hurry to get Y3 going.

At the 787 Premiere, one of the Boeing execs mentioned that they get to do a an all-new plane every dozen years or once a generation - I forget exactly what he said. I think that was partly said to quiet some speculation that the Y1 and the Y3 will be announced anytime soon. While the 787's technlologies are probably enough of a step function that will accelerate the pace a bit, it seems that the Y1 will be next with an EIS 7-8 years from now and the Y3 will follow that - so add another 7-8 years again. The airline industry is too expensive and too fragile to support a pace more rapid than that.
 
zvezda
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:18 pm

Quoting EBJ1248650 (Reply 35):
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the 773 be developed into a freighter in the not too distant future.

The only possible customers for a 777-300F would be FedEx, UPS, DHL, and the flower transporters. If it doesn't beat a 787F (which would have lower tonne/mile costs) to market by at least five years or so, then there is no point.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:45 am

Boeing's order announcement this week brings 2007 777 sales to 101, tying this year with 1995 as the third best for 777 sales.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
insiderinfo
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:20 am

I think the best years are still to come..

When airbus are still in teh same limbo they are today with the A350...airlines may start to wonder if and when the A350 is gonna really be firmed up and be designed to be built...then you may see alot of airlines just dashing to secure 777 slots to cover themselves..

If Airbus does firm up the A350 and decide to build....the you'll have the usual European Brucreacy and the baord will take forever to be convinced..

either way the 777 will benefit from Airbus dragging their feet..with teh A350
 
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Stitch
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:50 am

Even if the A350 is on time and on target, that will result in stronger and stronger sales which will fill up delivery slots. In such a situation, as the A330 is today to the 787, the 777 will be "the next best thing" and as such will still be desired and ordered to meet more immediate needs.
 
insiderinfo
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:43 am

expect lots more orders...l

777 is still the best plane flying today...lowest CASM and most efficient...

the A380 isn't flying yet.....the 787 isn't flying yet...and is getting delayed...god knows why....software issues seem to be an easy cover-up for some major problems..and the A350...isn't even a go yet...just a concept...a long long way before they get approval to commence to build..

So the only real plane to beat the 777 efficiency is the A380...which comes with a huge price tag and major risks...considering it hasn't flown in service..

i don't think the A380 in service is going to jeopardize 777 sales any time soon.....the 787 is too small to be real replacement 1 for 1, and the A350 to far out to consider...

This is the day of the 777 ..expect the sales record to be beaten next year or in 2009..
 
kaitak744
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:41 pm

The 777 may not be getting as many orders as it used to, but there is a good future for the 777F, which is still unchallenged (and Boeing will likely come up with a 787-11 before a 787F).

Also, the next A350-1000 / 787-11 will be available over 5 years after the next available 777-300ER.
The next A350-900R / 787-9HGW will be available over 7 years after the next available 777-200LR.
So, timing is a BIG deal (it is what is saving the 777 line, apart from the 777F)

And the life of the 777 has still many important events to come:
Airlines yet to take their first 777-300ER:
KLM
Cathay Pacific
Air India
Qatar
Korean Air
TAM
V Australia
Arik Air
Philippine Airlines

Airlines yet to take their first 777:
Qatar
TAM
V Australia
Arik Air
Philippine Airlines



Also, what are the current 777 delivery rates?
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:46 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 42):
Also, what are the current 777 delivery rates?

About seven per month as evidenced by the Boeing Delivery web pages.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
zvezda
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:46 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 42):
The 777 may not be getting as many orders as it used to, but there is a good future for the 777F, which is still unchallenged (and Boeing will likely come up with a 787-11 before a 787F).

Also, the next A350-1000 / 787-11 will be available over 5 years after the next available 777-300ER.
The next A350-900R / 787-9HGW will be available over 7 years after the next available 777-200LR.
So, timing is a BIG deal (it is what is saving the 777 line, apart from the 777F)

 checkmark 

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 42):
Also, what are the current 777 delivery rates?

Boeing are currently producing seven 777s per month.
 
insiderinfo
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RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:53 pm

[quote=Kaitak744,reply=42]Also, the next A350-1000 / 787-11 will be available over 5 years after the next available 777-300ER.
The next A350-900R / 787-9HGW will be available over 7 years after the next available 777-200LR.
So, timing is a BIG deal (it is what is saving the 777 line, apart from the 777F)[/quote

Stop.stop..stop..!


it surprises me just how many people on website are forgetting where the A350 is today....the answer is nowhere...

there's nothing to say that it'll even ever be built yet.....it's a concept...that's it....not even an approved project....before they even ask the board to consider...they need to finalize the design....which has been in limbo for months...then make the business case....and after all that....teh board may consider....

It may come someday....but with Airbus bleeding money...the approvals may not be as easy as previous concepts have been to get approved..
 
bringiton
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:24 am

RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:12 pm

Quoting Insiderinfo (Reply 45):
there's nothing to say that it'll even ever be built yet.....it's a concept...that's it....not even an approved project....before they even ask the board to consider...they need to finalize the design....which has been in limbo for months...then make the business case....and after all that....teh board may consider....

It may come someday....but with Airbus bleeding money...the approvals may not be as easy as previous concepts have been to get approved..

It is a launched project , the design may not be frozen yet but they have had the Authority to launch the program and offer it to potential buyers with firm contracts in place .
 
insiderinfo
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:43 am

RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:50 pm

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 46):
It is a launched project , the design may not be frozen yet but they have had the Authority to launch the program and offer it to potential buyers with firm contracts in place .

Um.. authority to launch..and approval to build are far awide....all that means is that they have a concept that they can propose to customers...and "feel the waters"...

it also means that airlines can place MOU's to buy if it is ever built...no A350 orders are firm today...since the change to XWB..all earlier orders are void and the few converted and new orders are MOU's to buy once and if developed and built..

Basically it's an easy out for all parties if Airbus don't build...similair to the A380F.

Today...there's not firm on the A350 concept...not a firm design...not a firm commitment and not a firm consequence if they walk..
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year?

Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:03 pm

Quoting Insiderinfo (Reply 47):
it also means that airlines can place MOU's to buy if it is ever built...no A350 orders are firm today...since the change to XWB..all earlier orders are void and the few converted and new orders are MOU's to buy once and if developed and built..

Basically it's an easy out for all parties if Airbus don't build...similair (sic) to the A380F.

Today...there's not firm on the A350 concept...not a firm design...not a firm commitment and not a firm consequence if they walk..

The A350 design is still a bit squishy, but the contracts are firm. They clearly specify some design parameters and performance guarantees. There are very clearly defined penalties in place if Airbus fail to deliver. The commitment and consequences are firm.